LDS Freedom Forum

Just how black are you? God needs to know....

1/2 black -

1/2 black -
Only 20% black, so therefore, not black at all (according to nameless, faceless internet trolls) -

Robin Hood wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 10:00 am

thestock wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 9:42 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 9:18 am

thestock wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 8:29 am

No. You should disregard it because it is an exclusionary and unfair and improper and wrong doctrine that eliminates blessings of the eternal realm based on the color of one's skin and supposedly based on what they may or may not have done in the premortal existence, which thing we could never know anything about for those people individually.

So in short, you should reject it because it is evil and wrong. Sometimes our leaders get it wrong. I know, that hurts your world view a bit......but if you put so much trust in the arm of flesh that you are willing to follow them into the depths of hatred that is racism.....well then, what am I fond of hearing so often?.....you have been deceived by Satan. .

This is nonsense in my view.

Keep building that eternal family Bishop.....unless of course they are black, right?

The problem is you are looking at this through a narrow lens. God sees the big picture and has a reason for everything.
As I said previously, there have been times in history where certain groups have been excluded or included according to God's instruction.
It's a pity you weren't around to set him straight.

Check out the parable of the Good Samaritan some time.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 1:07 pm Iwontbackdown has just laid out some of the reasons that End-Times Servant will be raised up to set the Lord's Church in order. This man is currently here in the midst of the Latter-day Saints, and is waiting on the Lord to begin their work. It's THEIR work, because the Servant will be working with Christ, as he is described in Isaiah and the Lord's "arm of righteousness."

This will be very exciting, but will be shortly followed by tribulations that will make men's hearts fail. Only a remnant will be protected, as the chaff is separated from the wheat, and burned.

It is this line of thought that has been the catalyst to every breakoff movement from the church since its restoration. In our day Harmstons and Snuffers and ( name your favorite apostate movement) has used it expertly to lead naive people away from the safety of the church and its designated Prophet. The con job just keeps getting repeated over and over again. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Those looking beyond the mark will be taken in and put thru the wringer but good. This forum is packed with such examples over the years. Satan loves to redirect and counterfeit. That's what he does best. He is very effective at his job.

Mark wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 3:03 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 1:07 pm Iwontbackdown has just laid out some of the reasons that End-Times Servant will be raised up to set the Lord's Church in order. This man is currently here in the midst of the Latter-day Saints, and is waiting on the Lord to begin their work. It's THEIR work, because the Servant will be working with Christ, as he is described in Isaiah and the Lord's "arm of righteousness."

This will be very exciting, but will be shortly followed by tribulations that will make men's hearts fail. Only a remnant will be protected, as the chaff is separated from the wheat, and burned.

It is this line of thought that has been the catalyst to every breakoff movement from the church since its restoration. In our day Harmstons and Snuffers and ( name your favorite apostate movement) has used it expertly to lead naive people away from the safety of the church and its designated Prophet. The con job just keeps getting repeated over and over again. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Those looking beyond the mark will be taken in and put thru the wringer but good. This forum is packed with such examples over the years. Satan loves to redirect and counterfeit. That's what he does best. He is very effective at his job.

He also loves to ease you into comfort and lull you to sleep

I'm puzzled why anyone would waste their time contending with someone whose name is iwontbackdown...

SmallFarm wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 4:02 pm I'm puzzled why anyone would waste their time contending with someone whose name is iwontbackdown...

Bravo!

Mark wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 3:03 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 1:07 pm Iwontbackdown has just laid out some of the reasons that End-Times Servant will be raised up to set the Lord's Church in order. This man is currently here in the midst of the Latter-day Saints, and is waiting on the Lord to begin their work. It's THEIR work, because the Servant will be working with Christ, as he is described in Isaiah and the Lord's "arm of righteousness."

This will be very exciting, but will be shortly followed by tribulations that will make men's hearts fail. Only a remnant will be protected, as the chaff is separated from the wheat, and burned.

It is this line of thought that has been the catalyst to every breakoff movement from the church since its restoration. In our day Harmstons and Snuffers and ( name your favorite apostate movement) has used it expertly to lead naive people away from the safety of the church and its designated Prophet. The con job just keeps getting repeated over and over again. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Those looking beyond the mark will be taken in and put thru the wringer but good. This forum is packed with such examples over the years. Satan loves to redirect and counterfeit. That's what he does best. He is very effective at his job.

-------------
ya, I will definitely look beyond "Mark".
sorry Mark but members are starting to wake up and
looking beyond Mark, and seeing that "all is NOT well in Zion"
like people like you think it is.

I really think you're missing the point in the Friend article. We truly can't tell somebody's true gender just by appearances anymore. Some people are pretending, and have very good costumes, even to the point of realistic looking genitals they weren't born with. I'm thankful I didn't have to worry about this problem in selecting a mate, but my children do! Even a birth certificate can't be trusted anymore, only a DNA test. We must prepare these children, to avoid a horrific situation someday. Elder Uchtdorf isn't trying to lead us astray. The Family Proclamation stands.

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 8:29 am

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 5:05 pm

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 12:07 pm Support of Transgenderism and Nihilism
Elder Uchdorf wrote an article, "What is Truth" in The March 2017 Friend telling the parable of the Elephant to describe how it's impossible to know a person's true identity. An accompanying column described that this was about transgender sexuality and helping children to understand this. Putting this into a children's magazine, of all places, is sickeningly repulsive.

I looked up the Friend article from March of 2017 and couldn't find anything about gender or sexuality. Can you give a link to this "accompanying column?"

I've looked at the PDF scan of the March 2017 Friend. It's not the same as the physical magazine. I know for sure that they moved Elder Uchtdorf's story to the front of the magazine. It was near the end in the print copy. Unless there was another magazine that included the story of the elephant, someone will need to find the physical copy to see what I saw there. It included an accompanying column (from the editors?) discussing how children can use the elephant story to better understand what transgender children are going through at school. I swear this was in the original copy I read.

I remember that talk. It's payload, buried in the middle, was the message to NOT get thrown off over what's on the internet about church history. I don't remember any transgender aspect. The elephant story was to soften up the reader for the don't-read-the-internet message. A nice story followed. Had the mafia been delivering the message, the mid-point would have read something like this: "You know, you've got a nice thing going here. I'd hate to see you get hurt."

Mark wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 3:03 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑May 6th, 2019, 1:07 pm Iwontbackdown has just laid out some of the reasons that End-Times Servant will be raised up to set the Lord's Church in order. This man is currently here in the midst of the Latter-day Saints, and is waiting on the Lord to begin their work. It's THEIR work, because the Servant will be working with Christ, as he is described in Isaiah and the Lord's "arm of righteousness."

This will be very exciting, but will be shortly followed by tribulations that will make men's hearts fail. Only a remnant will be protected, as the chaff is separated from the wheat, and burned.

It is this line of thought that has been the catalyst to every breakoff movement from the church since its restoration. In our day Harmstons and Snuffers and ( name your favorite apostate movement) has used it expertly to lead naive people away from the safety of the church and its designated Prophet. The con job just keeps getting repeated over and over again. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Those looking beyond the mark will be taken in and put thru the wringer but good. This forum is packed with such examples over the years. Satan loves to redirect and counterfeit. That's what he does best. He is very effective at his job.

Have you ever pointed this lens at our Church and Joseph Smith? It's scary what you might discover.

The Church is not in apostasy but the people sure are. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Words may be changed but it’s only to benefit our understanding but the principles and doctrine are the same. God has told us that Christ’s Church will never enter apostasy again but in the last days many members will be. Hence, the wheat and the tares. I do believe that Christ does run His Church and therefore He does visit with our prophet. Hearing Sister Nelson’s testimony of her knowing that her husband was the prophet and her witness of needing to leave the room sure implied to me that He was being visited by someone, if not the Lord. When our apostles and prophet stand and bear witness that Jesus Christ lives. And they are bearing witness- well a witness is someone who has seen.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701
I suggest reading this regarding women and their roles with the Priesthood. The Church is only expounding on what we have always been told and given which is women are endowed with Priesthood Power. There is a difference between being endowed and holding a Priesthood office. But women are given God’s power. Just because the Church is now explaining the meaning of these things doesn’t mean they are turning feminist. God is now allowing our minds for greater understanding of these things and all things. Truth is only a prayer away. I understand in this day of answers being given at the click of a mouse that we all want spiritual answers now. Well we know we have been told we need to deletion faith and that’s part of our journey here for our own learning and growth. It’s not too late for God to reveal to you if The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Christ’s true Church here in Earth. And once you receive that answer you cling to that truth with all you’ve got. Because it’s a bumpy ride.

Just because a modern day Prophet bears witness of Christ does not mean he has weekly face to face meetings with him.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 7:40 am The Church is not in apostasy but the people sure are. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Words may be changed but it’s only to benefit our understanding but the principles and doctrine are the same. God has told us that Christ’s Church will never enter apostasy again but in the last days many members will be. Hence, the wheat and the tares. I do believe that Christ does run His Church and therefore He does visit with our prophet. Hearing Sister Nelson’s testimony of her knowing that her husband was the prophet and her witness of needing to leave the room sure implied to me that He was being visited by someone, if not the Lord. When our apostles and prophet stand and bear witness that Jesus Christ lives. And they are bearing witness- well a witness is someone who has seen.
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701
I suggest reading this regarding women and their roles with the Priesthood. The Church is only expounding on what we have always been told and given which is women are endowed with Priesthood Power. There is a difference between being endowed and holding a Priesthood office. But women are given God’s power. Just because the Church is now explaining the meaning of these things doesn’t mean they are turning feminist. God is now allowing our minds for greater understanding of these things and all things. Truth is only a prayer away. I understand in this day of answers being given at the click of a mouse that we all want spiritual answers now. Well we know we have been told we need to deletion faith and that’s part of our journey here for our own learning and growth. It’s not too late for God to reveal to you if The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Christ’s true Church here in Earth. And once you receive that answer you cling to that truth with all you’ve got. Because it’s a bumpy ride.

What is being taught today about women and Priesthood Power is false doctrine. It is apostasy at the highest levels . . .but b/c it comes from the "leaders" all is good.

The new ideology about women and Priesthood Power, has NEVER been taught previously in the Church, it is NOT supported by Scripture and this ideology renders the very meaning of Priesthood as null and void.

Basically, the women leadership are teaching that anyone who has a calling in the Church is operating by Priesthood Power, and that anytime anyone who is baptized in the Church does anything which is of God (whether they pray, receive an answer to prayer, fast, etc.) that it is done by Priesthood Power. Totally false.

It is a widening of the definition of what it means to actually use priesthood power to virtually encompass each and every act that a member feels is of God.

It renders DC 84 null and void. The true doctrine of Priesthood Power is inseparably connected with Priesthood Authority. The power of the Priesthood comes in what God grants to a righteous man. The Authority of the Priesthood gives man the authority to flip the light switch in a room from off/on. The Power of the Priesthood comes with God turns the lights on.

The current leadership is teaching that basically anytime anyone prays

that the lights are turned on that person is operating under Priesthood Power. Totally false doctrine.

Mark my words, in 20 years women will have the "Priesthood", fat chance we get an addition to DC on it.

What has been previously taught, is that women gain access to Priesthod Power and Authority through their husband's Priesthood. But now b/c we are so "woke" in the Church, men don't mean squat.

I don't think the Church survives in it's current form in 20 years. One thing that has always served the Church well to maintain it's cohesive structure over the last 200 years has been it's rigid hierarchy. Very few Churches are able to maintain themselves as a large cohesive structure for hundreds of years. Most split off. Amazingly the Church has largely avoided this problem, while their have been break-offs, they don't last long and the largest has ~200,000 members.

The Church needs to split (and work on a way to split up resources too); so the liberals can have their party and the more conservative members can have their party too. This current arrangement . . .not gonna last. The UMC allows congregations that split to actually keep their buildings.

We have become like all other Church's, we have wonderful claims (and I love them), but the last time a President of the Church proclaimed to all the world he had seen Christ in no uncertain terms . . .well it's been a loooong while.

Elder Bednar said something very profound in April GC:
As a child, Joseph Smith learned of God from his family. His efforts to discover God’s will for him caused Joseph to search for the truth among many different Christian denominations, ponder diligently the scriptures, and pray sincerely to God. As young Joseph Smith returned to his home from the Sacred Grove immediately after the appearance of the Father and the Son, he spoke first with his mother. As he “leaned up to the fireplace, [his] mother inquired what the matter was. [Joseph] replied, ‘Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.’ [He] then said to [his] mother, ‘I have learned for myself.’”3 Joseph’s experience provides a powerful pattern of learning that each of us should emulate. We too need to learn for ourselves.

When was the last time an Apostle or Prophet "learned for himself"? Been a loooong while.

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 7:53 am Just because a modern day Prophet bears witness of Christ does not mean he has weekly face to face meetings with him.

Dallin Oaks specifically stated that the Brethren are not called to be witnesses of Christ because they have actually seen Him, BUT they are witnesses of the NAME of Christ, meaning they testify of Him and His mission and atonement.

He said that IF any of them saw Chriat, or had a similar experience, they would not talk about it, because, you know, Internet, swine, much too sacred to share with heathens.

Women have always been endowed with Priesthood power in the temple, they have never held the authority of the Priesthood directed through Priesthood keys and they never will.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:11 am

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 7:53 am Just because a modern day Prophet bears witness of Christ does not mean he has weekly face to face meetings with him.

Dallin Oaks specifically stated that the Brethren are not called to be witnesses of Christ because they have actually seen Him, BUT they are witnesses of the NAME of Christ, meaning they testify of Him and His mission and atonement.

He said that IF any of them saw Chriat, or had a similar experience, they would not talk about it, because, you know, Internet, swine, much too sacred to share with heathens.

As much as I respect Elder Oaks . . .that last paragraph is a load of crap. The scriptures testify that men who can testify of Christ directly are supposed to testify of Him. That is their charge, their calling, their duty. They are supposed to be hated, persecuted, mocked, tormented. That is their duty.

What kind of an example does it set for regular members to bear their testimony when top leadership claims, STE, "well, if we saw Christ we wouldn't tell you . . .b/c it's too sacred". "well if I had a witness of the Holy Ghost, I wouldn't tell you b/c it's too sacred".

Yeap and that is how unbelief happens.

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:14 am Women have always been endowed with Priesthood power in the temple, they have never held the authority of the Priesthood directed through Priesthood keys and they never will.

"Never" is a long time. Are you sure the Lord will always choose your guidance over his own plans during that time?

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:14 am Women have always been endowed with Priesthood power in the temple, they have never held the authority of the Priesthood directed through Priesthood keys and they never will.

No, women have been endowed with the garments and the covenants they make in the Temple. It's very specific. It's not a broad "Priesthood Power", it's a very specific thing.

That's like saying anyone who is baptized is endowed with Priesthood Power b/c baptism is done by priesthood power.

Oh, let's take a bet on Priesthood authority for women. 20 years- once the boomers die off and the millennials become the largest group in the Church. It's gonna happen.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:21 am

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:14 am Women have always been endowed with Priesthood power in the temple, they have never held the authority of the Priesthood directed through Priesthood keys and they never will.

"Never" is a long time. Are you sure the Lord will always choose your guidance over his own plans during that time?

I go by Scripture, no instances in scripture of women holding the priesthood (and don't quote the meager 3 potential passages of scripture).

It will happen b/c the members of the Church will want it to happen, no more, no less.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:25 am

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:21 am

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:14 am Women have always been endowed with Priesthood power in the temple, they have never held the authority of the Priesthood directed through Priesthood keys and they never will.

"Never" is a long time. Are you sure the Lord will always choose your guidance over his own plans during that time?

I go by Scripture, no instances in scripture of women holding the priesthood (and don't quote the meager 3 potential passages of scripture).

It will happen b/c the members of the Church will want it to happen, no more, no less.

Lets flip the coin. Can you give one scripture that says that women will never hold the priesthood?

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:26 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:25 am

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:21 am

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:14 am Women have always been endowed with Priesthood power in the temple, they have never held the authority of the Priesthood directed through Priesthood keys and they never will.

"Never" is a long time. Are you sure the Lord will always choose your guidance over his own plans during that time?

I go by Scripture, no instances in scripture of women holding the priesthood (and don't quote the meager 3 potential passages of scripture).

It will happen b/c the members of the Church will want it to happen, no more, no less.

Lets flip the coin. Can you give one scripture that says that women will never hold the priesthood?

Can you give me one scripture that says homosexuals can never be baptized?

The problem is you (nor just about anyone these days) don't read the scriptures. The answers are obvious if you read the scriptures. You don't need one scripture (i.e. a Law of Moses book), b/c the pattern of the scriptures is obvious.

And even if I did give you one scripture you'd just say, well "modern revelation" can trump it.

Great, I believe that too, but before I believe "modern revelation", there better be a Prophet who actually is a prophet . . you know doing prophet like things, like healing people, casting out devils, translating new scripture . . . kind of like Joseph Smith. That'd be cool.

Instead we get poor imitations of prophets. Not one single new revelation has been added to DC that isn't more than 100 years old. OD 2 is no revelation, it's just a statement.

I'll follow a prophet, I have no problem with that, but before I get lead down to hell-the works to judge if he is a prophet better be there . . . b/c all we have right now is men who rose through a bureaucratic structure. They are good men, really good men, but have they seen God, have they seen Christ-nope.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:11 am

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 7:53 am Just because a modern day Prophet bears witness of Christ does not mean he has weekly face to face meetings with him.

Dallin Oaks specifically stated that the Brethren are not called to be witnesses of Christ because they have actually seen Him, BUT they are witnesses of the NAME of Christ, meaning they testify of Him and His mission and atonement.

He said that IF any of them saw Chriat, or had a similar experience, they would not talk about it, because, you know, Internet, swine, much too sacred to share with heathens.

Sounds like hedging to me. These guys sure like people believing they do see Christ.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:26 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:25 am

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:21 am

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:14 am Women have always been endowed with Priesthood power in the temple, they have never held the authority of the Priesthood directed through Priesthood keys and they never will.

"Never" is a long time. Are you sure the Lord will always choose your guidance over his own plans during that time?

I go by Scripture, no instances in scripture of women holding the priesthood (and don't quote the meager 3 potential passages of scripture).

It will happen b/c the members of the Church will want it to happen, no more, no less.

Lets flip the coin. Can you give one scripture that says that women will never hold the priesthood?

A woman will never hold the keys and a homosexual couple will never be sealed. If I am wrong then I may start questioning my faith.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:03 am
What is being taught today about women and Priesthood Power is false doctrine. It is apostasy at the highest levels . . .but b/c it comes from the "leaders" all is good.

False dichotomy. What you are saying are false teachings by our leadership, is not actually what they are teaching.

RocknRoll wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:42 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 8:03 am
What is being taught today about women and Priesthood Power is false doctrine. It is apostasy at the highest levels . . .but b/c it comes from the "leaders" all is good.

False dichotomy. What you are saying are false teachings by our leadership, is not actually what they are teaching.

Okay, my interpretation may be wrong. I wrote what I understand them to be teaching. If I am wrong, please enlighten me as to what they are really teaching.