LDS Freedom Forum

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:17 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am When men and women go to the temple, they are both endowed with the same power, which by definition is priesthood power. While the authority of the priesthood is directed through priesthood keys, and priesthood keys are held only by worthy men, access to the power and blessings of the priesthood is available to all of God’s children.
Elder M. Russell Ballard

Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.

This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.

I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.

Not without a husband. I would suggest you look at the one phrase in the entire endowment about priesthood power and look at all the other words surrounding it.

Without a husband, that priesthood power is null. You have no power in the priesthood without a husband. It is a promise, but without a husband who holds the priesthood you have no power.

And the wording prior to that phrase (about power and priesthood), explicitly defines it . . . what is it it is the Patriarchal xxxx, i.e. the only way that promise comes about is through the Patriarchal Priesthood, i.e. by being married to a man who has the Priesthood.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:15 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:11 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:17 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am

I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.

Not without a husband. I would suggest you look at the one phrase in the entire endowment about priesthood power and look at all the other words surrounding it.

Without a husband, that priesthood power is null. You have no power in the priesthood without a husband. It is a promise, but without a husband who holds the priesthood you have no power.

And the wording prior to that phrase (about power and priesthood), explicitly defines it . . . what is it it is the Patriarchal xxxx, i.e. the only way that promise comes about is through the Patriarchal Priesthood, i.e. by being married to a man who has the Priesthood.

When women and men are married in the temple it then becomes a shared priesthood power. But that doesn’t deny being endowed with power. If a woman enters the temple and receives her endowment she is endowed with priesthood power because she is entering into covenants with her Heavenly Father through covenants that are only possible through the priesthood.
Just curious... what about a married couple whose husband isn’t worthy of the priesthood he holds? Does that deny the wife of priesthood power? If she is worthy.

It's not shared, it's more like it flows from her husband to her. If her husband isn't righteous than yes he denies his wife priesthood power, ultimately if he isn't righteous (and she is), she will be taken from him and given to another man. That's why it's called Patriarchal . . .as in man-lead, guided, directed.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:22 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:15 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:11 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:17 am
Not without a husband. I would suggest you look at the one phrase in the entire endowment about priesthood power and look at all the other words surrounding it.

Without a husband, that priesthood power is null. You have no power in the priesthood without a husband. It is a promise, but without a husband who holds the priesthood you have no power.

And the wording prior to that phrase (about power and priesthood), explicitly defines it . . . what is it it is the Patriarchal xxxx, i.e. the only way that promise comes about is through the Patriarchal Priesthood, i.e. by being married to a man who has the Priesthood.

When women and men are married in the temple it then becomes a shared priesthood power. But that doesn’t deny being endowed with power. If a woman enters the temple and receives her endowment she is endowed with priesthood power because she is entering into covenants with her Heavenly Father through covenants that are only possible through the priesthood.
Just curious... what about a married couple whose husband isn’t worthy of the priesthood he holds? Does that deny the wife of priesthood power? If she is worthy.

It's not shared, it's more like it flows from her husband to her. If her husband isn't righteous than yes he denies his wife priesthood power, ultimately if he isn't righteous (and she is), she will be taken from him and given to another man. That's why it's called Patriarchal . . .as in man-lead, guided, directed.

So if parents get divorced the man is denied the role of father because the wife bore the child?! Doesn’t make much sense does it. And yes it is a shared power. That quote from 100 years ago from Elder Talmage even says it is if you don’t want me to quote current apostles.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am When men and women go to the temple, they are both endowed with the same power, which by definition is priesthood power. While the authority of the priesthood is directed through priesthood keys, and priesthood keys are held only by worthy men, access to the power and blessings of the priesthood is available to all of God’s children.
Elder M. Russell Ballard

Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.

This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.

I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.

tdj wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:57 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am When men and women go to the temple, they are both endowed with the same power, which by definition is priesthood power. While the authority of the priesthood is directed through priesthood keys, and priesthood keys are held only by worthy men, access to the power and blessings of the priesthood is available to all of God’s children.
Elder M. Russell Ballard

Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.

This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.

I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.

But what does that MEAN as far as using it? If women are also endowed with it, then in what way are we to USE it? Do we also have the authority to lay hands on the sick to give blessings, and then why isn't the wife of the patriarch considered to be the matriarch and allowed to give matriarchal blessings to the women? I've heard it said before about women being endowed same as men, but to me it all just seemed like placating talk. Nice words to shut the women up for awhile, but I would really like to know how that's used in practice? It's just a bit more obvious and visual with the men. I've just never been too keen on the concept that whenever prayer or blessings are needed, that the women have to call or run around like chickens with their heads cut off looking for a man to do it.

tdj wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:57 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am When men and women go to the temple, they are both endowed with the same power, which by definition is priesthood power. While the authority of the priesthood is directed through priesthood keys, and priesthood keys are held only by worthy men, access to the power and blessings of the priesthood is available to all of God’s children.
Elder M. Russell Ballard

Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.

This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.

I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.

But what does that MEAN as far as using it? If women are also endowed with it, then in what way are we to USE it? Do we also have the authority to lay hands on the sick to give blessings, and then why isn't the wife of the patriarch considered to be the matriarch and allowed to give matriarchal blessings to the women? I've heard it said before about women being endowed same as men, but to me it all just seemed like placating talk. Nice words to shut the women up for awhile, but I would really like to know how that's used in practice? It's just a bit more obvious and visual with the men. I've just never been too keen on the concept that whenever prayer or blessings are needed, that the women have to call or run around like chickens with their heads cut off looking for a man to do it.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:00 am

tdj wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:57 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am

This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.

I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.

But what does that MEAN as far as using it? If women are also endowed with it, then in what way are we to USE it? Do we also have the authority to lay hands on the sick to give blessings, and then why isn't the wife of the patriarch considered to be the matriarch and allowed to give matriarchal blessings to the women? I've heard it said before about women being endowed same as men, but to me it all just seemed like placating talk. Nice words to shut the women up for awhile, but I would really like to know how that's used in practice? It's just a bit more obvious and visual with the men. I've just never been too keen on the concept that whenever prayer or blessings are needed, that the women have to call or run around like chickens with their heads cut off looking for a man to do it.

http://www.ldsliving.com/Elder-Renlund- ... ty/s/87931

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701

I really like both of these talks that explain the ways in which we as women are endowed with that power.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:37 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:22 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:15 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:11 am

When women and men are married in the temple it then becomes a shared priesthood power. But that doesn’t deny being endowed with power. If a woman enters the temple and receives her endowment she is endowed with priesthood power because she is entering into covenants with her Heavenly Father through covenants that are only possible through the priesthood.
Just curious... what about a married couple whose husband isn’t worthy of the priesthood he holds? Does that deny the wife of priesthood power? If she is worthy.

It's not shared, it's more like it flows from her husband to her. If her husband isn't righteous than yes he denies his wife priesthood power, ultimately if he isn't righteous (and she is), she will be taken from him and given to another man. That's why it's called Patriarchal . . .as in man-lead, guided, directed.

So if parents get divorced the man is denied the role of father because the wife bore the child?! Doesn’t make much sense does it. And yes it is a shared power. That quote from 100 years ago from Elder Talmage even says it is if you don’t want me to quote current apostles.

I don't understand what divorce has to do with it.

Okay so Elder Talmage said it . . .it doesn't make it true. Is what he said backed up by scripture? I'd love to see the scriptural justification for what he said.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:02 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:00 am

tdj wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:57 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am

I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.

But what does that MEAN as far as using it? If women are also endowed with it, then in what way are we to USE it? Do we also have the authority to lay hands on the sick to give blessings, and then why isn't the wife of the patriarch considered to be the matriarch and allowed to give matriarchal blessings to the women? I've heard it said before about women being endowed same as men, but to me it all just seemed like placating talk. Nice words to shut the women up for awhile, but I would really like to know how that's used in practice? It's just a bit more obvious and visual with the men. I've just never been too keen on the concept that whenever prayer or blessings are needed, that the women have to call or run around like chickens with their heads cut off looking for a man to do it.

http://www.ldsliving.com/Elder-Renlund- ... ty/s/87931

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701

I really like both of these talks that explain the ways in which we as women are endowed with that power.

New teaching that has never been taught before and doesn't conform to scripture.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:00 am

tdj wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:57 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am

iwontbackdown wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am

This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.

I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.

But what does that MEAN as far as using it? If women are also endowed with it, then in what way are we to USE it? Do we also have the authority to lay hands on the sick to give blessings, and then why isn't the wife of the patriarch considered to be the matriarch and allowed to give matriarchal blessings to the women? I've heard it said before about women being endowed same as men, but to me it all just seemed like placating talk. Nice words to shut the women up for awhile, but I would really like to know how that's used in practice? It's just a bit more obvious and visual with the men. I've just never been too keen on the concept that whenever prayer or blessings are needed, that the women have to call or run around like chickens with their heads cut off looking for a man to do it.

http://www.ldsliving.com/Elder-Renlund- ... ty/s/87931

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701

I really like both of these talks that explain the ways in which we as women are endowed with that power.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:04 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:37 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:22 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:15 am
It's not shared, it's more like it flows from her husband to her. If her husband isn't righteous than yes he denies his wife priesthood power, ultimately if he isn't righteous (and she is), she will be taken from him and given to another man. That's why it's called Patriarchal . . .as in man-lead, guided, directed.

So if parents get divorced the man is denied the role of father because the wife bore the child?! Doesn’t make much sense does it. And yes it is a shared power. That quote from 100 years ago from Elder Talmage even says it is if you don’t want me to quote current apostles.

I don't understand what divorce has to do with it.

Okay so Elder Talmage said it . . .it doesn't make it true. Is what he said backed up by scripture? I'd love to see the scriptural justification for what he said.

I already showed you scripture in D&C 84 that explains how men hold the authority of the priesthood but that every soul who is baptized receives Gods power which is priesthood power through the gifts the scripture stated.

Mark wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 8:11 am

I AM wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:12 am Both Jesus Christ and Isaiah foretell of our "Latter-Day" APOSTASY !

some here believe as I do that the scriptures show that history repeats itself.
"types and shadows"
"What has happened before, will happen again"
things that "have been and shall be"

Isaiah 44:7
7 "Who predicts what happens as do I, and is the equal of me in
appointing a people from of old as types, foretelling things to come?

Isaiah 46
10 I foretell the end from the beginning,
from ancient times things not yet done.
I speak, and my purposes take effect;
I accomplish all my will.

Isaiah uses what are called types from the past
to show the future.
What has happened before, will happen again.

Interesting how Jesus Christ Himself
gave us a commandment that we "search these things diligently"
3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

ALL THE PROPHECIES OF ISAIAH PERTAIN TO US TODAY
All prophecies in Isaiah are prophecies of the last days.

Also interesting how Isaiah chooses to start his book.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-4, 13,14
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the donkey its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray, a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah, they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel, they have lapsed into APOSTASY.

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/1#commentary

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary


Where much is given - much is required.
Most members don't realize or read the scriptures enough
to know that the restored Gospel is a great responsibility
that we haven't been able to live up to.
But the Lord (knowing we wouldn't ) gave us the same
chance as he gave them -The peoples of the Book of Mormon.
That's why we have the Book of Mormon and the church was restored.
But their book is also a book of warning for "us" and ALL the Gentiles - U.S.
they tried to warn us, but we don't heed their warnings
and have made the same mistakes as they did.

The scriptures foretell our future and the downfall
of this "choice land" that WILL fall -
just like it did for them in the Book of Mormon when they too fell into apostasy and forfeited their blessings to us- that is why the Lord brought His gospel to us -
that is why we have their book - to give us a chance and not make the same mistakes as they did.
But we HAVE made the same mistakes and are repeating their history.
"they, who for a time enjoyed the blessings of the restored Gospel," they will be destroyed with the Gentiles and cut off from the Lord."
So now we are forfeiting the blessings of the gospel
and they are going back to them.
Hence - the first will be last, and the last, first.


1. The church is in total APOSTASY.
2. We no longer receive revelation - and haven't for over 100 years.
3. Christ no longer leads the church - and it's leaders and members have
become as "Sodom; you people of Gomorrah!" (below)

*** and because of our APOSTASY, just as with ancient Israel,
now comes the Lord's judgments on His people - "us" the church.

1-2-3 you're out !
The Times of the Gentiles is coming to an end.

*** "And upon my house shall it begin"

D&C 112:24-26
24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/1#commentary
Isaiah 1

10 Hear the word of Jehovah,
O leaders of Sodom;
give heed to the law of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!

To call Jehovah’s people and their leaders by the names Sodom and Gomorrah is to compare their moral degeneracy to that of those cities’ ancient inhabitants.
As the leaders of a people generally reflect the people themselves, and as the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s people parallel each other in the Book of Isaiah, their spiritual condition holds little hope for the rising generation.
When things reach that point, Jehovah’s people are fortunate indeed if Jehovah offers them a last warning. For those who accept it, there may yet be a chance of deliverance; otherwise, their destruction is assured.

Hear the word of Jehovah . . . give heed to the law of our God. Knowing that Jehovah does nothing unless he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets (Amos 3:7), he sends a warning voice before destroying his people. In the Book of Isaiah, that warning voice is Jehovah’s servant, of whom Isaiah is a type. Pointing them to Jehovah’s “law” and “word—to the terms of his covenant—the servant directs them to the one thing that has the power to reverse their circumstances. Replacing current aberrant religious practices with keeping Jehovah’s law and word remains his people’s only hope.


9 Had not Jehovah of Hosts left us a few survivors,
we should have been as Sodom,
or become like Gomorrah.

A type or precedent of the “few survivors” of Jehovah’s people who are “left” after the destruction are Lot and his two daughters who escaped God’s ancient destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24-30). Representing a pattern of what happens in the end-time, when Jehovah sends his angels to escort Lot and his family out of Sodom, his sons-in-law consider it foolish while Lot’s wife looks back and perishes (Genesis 19:12-23; cf. Matthew 24:31).
The full authoritative title “Jehovah of Hosts” underscores the gravity of these events and the fact that Israel’s God is in charge of world affairs.

Sodom . . . Gomorrah. The names Sodom and Gomorrah remind us of those ancient cities and their inhabitants and what they came to symbolize. In their perverse lifestyle their residents grew so aggressive that they attempted to violate the angels of God who were Lot’s guests (Genesis 19:1-11).
Isaiah’s drawing on this type when predicting the end-time lets us know that once they lose God’s light his people start to resemble those ancient inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah.
When his people’s devotion to Jehovah becomes but a shallow version of his law and word, it lacks the power to withstand evil.

The names Sodom and Gomorrah additionally function as word links to Babylon: “And Babylon, the most splendid of kingdoms, the glory and pride of Chaldeans, shall be [thrown down] as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah” (Isaiah 13:19). Isaiah’s structurally developed concept of a Greater Babylon—resembling John’s “Babylon the Great”—identifies it as an evil world conglomerate on the eve of its destruction (Isaiah 13-23, 47; Revelation 17-18).
That a wicked majority of Jehovah’s people suffers the same fate Babylon does implies that it too has become identified with Babylon.

The idea of “cities burned with fire” that describes the destruction of Jehovah’s people (v 7) alludes to the desolation of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their residents by a hail of fire and brimstone (Genesis 19:24-25; cf. Isaiah 32:19).
While the end-time version of that event may involve a similar cosmic cataclysm, Isaiah attributes the destruction of the world’s cities to the king of Assyria/Babylon (Isaiah 37:26). In view of modern weaponry’s ability to destroy entire cities in seconds, such technology in the hands of an archtyrant may thus account for Isaiah’s end-time scenario (Isaiah 9:18-19).

YES - I AM A SERVANT (A TYPE) OF THE LORD !
AND I AM GIVING YOU ! THIS WARNING !

Looks like Lizzys wait is finally over. The End-Times Servant has arrived on LDSFF. We are toast..

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:10 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:00 am

tdj wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:57 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am

I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.

But what does that MEAN as far as using it? If women are also endowed with it, then in what way are we to USE it? Do we also have the authority to lay hands on the sick to give blessings, and then why isn't the wife of the patriarch considered to be the matriarch and allowed to give matriarchal blessings to the women? I've heard it said before about women being endowed same as men, but to me it all just seemed like placating talk. Nice words to shut the women up for awhile, but I would really like to know how that's used in practice? It's just a bit more obvious and visual with the men. I've just never been too keen on the concept that whenever prayer or blessings are needed, that the women have to call or run around like chickens with their heads cut off looking for a man to do it.

http://www.ldsliving.com/Elder-Renlund- ... ty/s/87931

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701

I really like both of these talks that explain the ways in which we as women are endowed with that power.

Thanks for these links. Fascinating and important. It is nice to have living prophets and apostles behind this living church.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:13 am

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:10 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:00 am

tdj wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:57 am

But what does that MEAN as far as using it? If women are also endowed with it, then in what way are we to USE it? Do we also have the authority to lay hands on the sick to give blessings, and then why isn't the wife of the patriarch considered to be the matriarch and allowed to give matriarchal blessings to the women? I've heard it said before about women being endowed same as men, but to me it all just seemed like placating talk. Nice words to shut the women up for awhile, but I would really like to know how that's used in practice? It's just a bit more obvious and visual with the men. I've just never been too keen on the concept that whenever prayer or blessings are needed, that the women have to call or run around like chickens with their heads cut off looking for a man to do it.

http://www.ldsliving.com/Elder-Renlund- ... ty/s/87931

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701

I really like both of these talks that explain the ways in which we as women are endowed with that power.

Thanks for these links. Fascinating and important. It is nice to have living prophets and apostles behind this living church.

??? B/c what they say conforms to your world-view.

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:17 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:13 am

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:10 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:00 am

http://www.ldsliving.com/Elder-Renlund- ... ty/s/87931

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701

I really like both of these talks that explain the ways in which we as women are endowed with that power.

Thanks for these links. Fascinating and important. It is nice to have living prophets and apostles behind this living church.

??? B/c what they say conforms to your world-view.

True I do have a world view, as do you. Mine may admittedly seem heretical to many here, but that is fine. But I am a member and I do sustain the Brethren and Sisters that are called to lead this church. When one of the apostles speak I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. When several of them speak and the church puts forth changes and policies then I will definitely pay attention. Even if this contradicts what some would think is older teachings. Line upon Line.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:20 am

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:17 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:13 am

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:10 am

Thanks for these links. Fascinating and important. It is nice to have living prophets and apostles behind this living church.

??? B/c what they say conforms to your world-view.

True I do have a world view, as do you. Mine may admittedly seem heretical to many here, but that is fine. But I am a member and I do sustain the Brethren and Sisters that are called to lead this church. When one of the apostles speak I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. When several of them speak and the church puts forth changes and policies then I will definitely pay attention. Even if this contradicts what some would think is older teachings. Line upon Line.

You don't mention the Word of God. You don't mention how to judge whether what they say is true or not. It is a blind obedience . . .especially when what they say falls right in line with your worldview.

I judge what they say based upon God's revealed Word. If what they say contradicts it, there are two options, I either throw out what they say or they can get new scripture.

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:24 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:20 am

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:17 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:13 am
??? B/c what they say conforms to your world-view.

True I do have a world view, as do you. Mine may admittedly seem heretical to many here, but that is fine. But I am a member and I do sustain the Brethren and Sisters that are called to lead this church. When one of the apostles speak I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. When several of them speak and the church puts forth changes and policies then I will definitely pay attention. Even if this contradicts what some would think is older teachings. Line upon Line.

You don't mention the Word of God. You don't mention how to judge whether what they say is true or not. It is a blind obedience . . .especially when what they say falls right in line with your worldview.

I judge what they say based upon God's revealed Word. If what they say contradicts it, there are two options, I either throw out what they say or they can get new scripture.

I didn't mention it explicitly but I think it is implicit. There has been times when their actions oppose my worldview. For instance the POX, (policy of exclusion). But the spirit, or in other words Word of God, specifically helped me with that one, and fortunately it sorted out.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:26 am

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:24 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:20 am

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:17 am

True I do have a world view, as do you. Mine may admittedly seem heretical to many here, but that is fine. But I am a member and I do sustain the Brethren and Sisters that are called to lead this church. When one of the apostles speak I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. When several of them speak and the church puts forth changes and policies then I will definitely pay attention. Even if this contradicts what some would think is older teachings. Line upon Line.

You don't mention the Word of God. You don't mention how to judge whether what they say is true or not. It is a blind obedience . . .especially when what they say falls right in line with your worldview.

I judge what they say based upon God's revealed Word. If what they say contradicts it, there are two options, I either throw out what they say or they can get new scripture.

I didn't mention it explicitly but I think it is implicit. There has been times when their actions oppose my worldview. For instance the POX, (policy of exclusion). But the spirit, or in other words Word of God, specifically helped me with that one, and fortunately it sorted out.

"But the Spirit, or in other words Word of God". That's false-the Spirit isn't the Word of God. The Word of God is Scripture.

"my worldview" exactly right. Rather than attempt to figure out what is God's worldview-which is found in scripture it's all about the almighty me.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:11 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:04 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:37 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:22 am

So if parents get divorced the man is denied the role of father because the wife bore the child?! Doesn’t make much sense does it. And yes it is a shared power. That quote from 100 years ago from Elder Talmage even says it is if you don’t want me to quote current apostles.

I don't understand what divorce has to do with it.

Okay so Elder Talmage said it . . .it doesn't make it true. Is what he said backed up by scripture? I'd love to see the scriptural justification for what he said.

I already showed you scripture in D&C 84 that explains how men hold the authority of the priesthood but that every soul who is baptized receives Gods power which is priesthood power through the gifts the scripture stated.

No you didn't DC 84 mentions "power" 8 times and does not mention "priesthood power" once. Not one single time.

I'll spell it out for you:
Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.
And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;

Power is mentioned in conjunction with ordinances. That is how Priesthood power is manifest, in the actual ordinance, not in the promise of the ordinance, but the actual act of the ordinance itself. What the ordinance promises or blesses, is that a blessing.

Being baptized and receiving the Holy Ghost isn't receiving priesthood power, it's through priesthood power that one is baptized and receives the Holy Ghost. Having the Gift of the Holy Ghost isn't Priesthood Power.

I've been a member for decades and only in the last 2-3 years has this new philosophy ever been mentioned. You are preaching a new gospel, one that isn't supported by scripture.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:36 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:11 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:04 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:37 am
I don't understand what divorce has to do with it.

Okay so Elder Talmage said it . . .it doesn't make it true. Is what he said backed up by scripture? I'd love to see the scriptural justification for what he said.

I already showed you scripture in D&C 84 that explains how men hold the authority of the priesthood but that every soul who is baptized receives Gods power which is priesthood power through the gifts the scripture stated.

No you didn't DC 84 mentions "power" 8 times and does not mention "priesthood power" once. Not one single time.

I'll spell it out for you:
Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.
And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;

Power is mentioned in conjunction with ordinances. That is how Priesthood power is manifest, in the actual ordinance, not in the promise of the ordinance, but the actual act of the ordinance itself. What the ordinance promises or blesses, is that a blessing.

Being baptized and receiving the Holy Ghost isn't receiving priesthood power, it's through priesthood power that one is baptized and receives the Holy Ghost. Having the Gift of the Holy Ghost isn't Priesthood Power.

I've been a member for decades and only in the last 2-3 years has this new philosophy ever been mentioned. You are preaching a new gospel, one that isn't supported by scripture.

And I as well as many women have entered into and made ordinances in the temple that therefore grant me if worthy “the POWER of Godliness” which is therefore priesthood power. Your scripture lines it out exactly so thank you for that!

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:30 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:26 am

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:24 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:20 am
You don't mention the Word of God. You don't mention how to judge whether what they say is true or not. It is a blind obedience . . .especially when what they say falls right in line with your worldview.

I judge what they say based upon God's revealed Word. If what they say contradicts it, there are two options, I either throw out what they say or they can get new scripture.

I didn't mention it explicitly but I think it is implicit. There has been times when their actions oppose my worldview. For instance the POX, (policy of exclusion). But the spirit, or in other words Word of God, specifically helped me with that one, and fortunately it sorted out.

"But the Spirit, or in other words Word of God". That's false-the Spirit isn't the Word of God. The Word of God is Scripture.

"my worldview" exactly right. Rather than attempt to figure out what is God's worldview-which is found in scripture it's all about the almighty me.

Interesting. I think I am beginning to see what your view is. Does revelation through the spirit or does personal scriptural interpretation take precedent. I think we have opposite views on that. In which case me may have to agree to disagree, and I will personally attempt to be agreeable in my disagreement.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:20 am

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:17 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:13 am

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:10 am

Thanks for these links. Fascinating and important. It is nice to have living prophets and apostles behind this living church.

??? B/c what they say conforms to your world-view.

True I do have a world view, as do you. Mine may admittedly seem heretical to many here, but that is fine. But I am a member and I do sustain the Brethren and Sisters that are called to lead this church. When one of the apostles speak I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. When several of them speak and the church puts forth changes and policies then I will definitely pay attention. Even if this contradicts what some would think is older teachings. Line upon Line.

You don't mention the Word of God. You don't mention how to judge whether what they say is true or not. It is a blind obedience . . .especially when what they say falls right in line with your worldview.

I judge what they say based upon God's revealed Word. If what they say contradicts it, there are two options, I either throw out what they say or they can get new scripture

The pattern of the scriptures is plainly clear. God's teachings, laws, precepts are very hard for men to follow. Moses talked with God face to face, God delivered them with 10 plagues and when Moses went into the mount the people worshiped a Golden Calf!!!

God's ways are not man's ways, yet isn't it interesting how Church teachings have been following the world . . .only lagging by about 20 years. The pattern of the scriptures clearly shows, this is not good.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:45 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:36 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:11 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:04 am
I already showed you scripture in D&C 84 that explains how men hold the authority of the priesthood but that every soul who is baptized receives Gods power which is priesthood power through the gifts the scripture stated.

No you didn't DC 84 mentions "power" 8 times and does not mention "priesthood power" once. Not one single time.

I'll spell it out for you:
Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.
And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;

Power is mentioned in conjunction with ordinances. That is how Priesthood power is manifest, in the actual ordinance, not in the promise of the ordinance, but the actual act of the ordinance itself. What the ordinance promises or blesses, is that a blessing.

Being baptized and receiving the Holy Ghost isn't receiving priesthood power, it's through priesthood power that one is baptized and receives the Holy Ghost. Having the Gift of the Holy Ghost isn't Priesthood Power.

I've been a member for decades and only in the last 2-3 years has this new philosophy ever been mentioned. You are preaching a new gospel, one that isn't supported by scripture.

And I as well as many women have entered into and made ordinances in the temple that therefore grant me if worthy “the POWER of Godliness” which is therefore priesthood power. Your scripture lines it out exactly so thank you for that!

??? Wow it says "in ordinances" the power of God is made manifest. Yet you seem to believe you have priesthood power outside of the act of the ordinance. And it doesn't say power of godliness = priesthood power. It doesn't say priesthood power anywhere in DC 84.

Talk about making a scripture say what you want it to say . . .

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:17 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:13 am

justme wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:10 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 11:00 am

http://www.ldsliving.com/Elder-Renlund- ... ty/s/87931

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701

I really like both of these talks that explain the ways in which we as women are endowed with that power.

Thanks for these links. Fascinating and important. It is nice to have living prophets and apostles behind this living church.

??? B/c what they say conforms to your world-view.

True I do have a world view, as do you. Mine may admittedly seem heretical to many here, but that is fine. But I am a member and I do sustain the Brethren and Sisters that are called to lead this church. When one of the apostles speak I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. When several of them speak and the church puts forth changes and policies then I will definitely pay attention. Even if this contradicts what some would think is older teachings. Line upon Line.