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Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 2:05 pm
by dezNatDefender
Stahura wrote: May 8th, 2019, 2:03 pm
Gage wrote: May 8th, 2019, 12:03 pm The context and meaning of priesthood power has been broadened a bit in order to appease women who feel inferior to men because they can not hold the Priesthood?
I'd also say that the context and meaning of priesthood was broadened and adjusted to appease men who bear no fruits(most of us) of one who has been born of God and who supposedly holds the priesthood. I guess mens egos couldn't take knowing that we might not have something we think we have ?

"It's God's will" every time a priesthood blessing doesn't work.

Or a recovery from a sickness after a typical time period is attributed to the priesthood blessings.

Maybe you don't have the power you think.
Exactly right.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 2:08 pm
by RocknRoll
topcat wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:54 pm
RocknRoll wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:47 pm
topcat wrote: May 8th, 2019, 12:43 pm How many times have the apostles been in a testimony meeting (even General Conference) in a random ward or stake when a rank-and-file member gets up and bears a testimony that the apostles meet Christ face to face, or something to that effect? Does the false statement ever get corrected?
I don’t know. How many times? I’ve actually never heard of this happening in my 50+ years as a member. Why would a “rank-and-file member” bear testimony of something they couldn’t possibly know?
NO. In fact, the apostles RUN WITH SUCH falsehoods. They actually DEPEND on the members doing their dirty work! It's not that the apostles get up and say "I meet with Jesus in the upper room of the temple," it's the MEMBERS who bear that testimony. And the apostles HAPPILY ALLOW and ENCOURAGE such embellishments and outright falsehoods.
In what way do the apostles encourage this?
This alone is a sure sign of apostasy.
Many modern apostles have been asked if any of the apostles see Christ or have seen Him. And they have answered NO. But they allow the lies to continue unabated. This is called priestcraft.
How do you know that “many apostles have been asked…”? And how would you know that a particular apostle has or has not seen Christ? Also, that is not the definition of priestcraft either way.
I really don't have time to respond to somebody saying the sky isn't blue.
Ummm..did I not indicate that I’ve been a member for over 50 years? So, you’re saying that members bearing testimony that the apostles meet with Christ face to face, happens all the time? And because I said I’d never heard of that happening, I must not be a member and you don’t have time to respond to me. Well, okay then.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 2:11 pm
by Zathura
RocknRoll wrote: May 8th, 2019, 2:08 pm
topcat wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:54 pm
RocknRoll wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:47 pm
topcat wrote: May 8th, 2019, 12:43 pm How many times have the apostles been in a testimony meeting (even General Conference) in a random ward or stake when a rank-and-file member gets up and bears a testimony that the apostles meet Christ face to face, or something to that effect? Does the false statement ever get corrected?
I don’t know. How many times? I’ve actually never heard of this happening in my 50+ years as a member. Why would a “rank-and-file member” bear testimony of something they couldn’t possibly know?
NO. In fact, the apostles RUN WITH SUCH falsehoods. They actually DEPEND on the members doing their dirty work! It's not that the apostles get up and say "I meet with Jesus in the upper room of the temple," it's the MEMBERS who bear that testimony. And the apostles HAPPILY ALLOW and ENCOURAGE such embellishments and outright falsehoods.
In what way do the apostles encourage this?
This alone is a sure sign of apostasy.
Many modern apostles have been asked if any of the apostles see Christ or have seen Him. And they have answered NO. But they allow the lies to continue unabated. This is called priestcraft.
How do you know that “many apostles have been asked…”? And how would you know that a particular apostle has or has not seen Christ? Also, that is not the definition of priestcraft either way.
I really don't have time to respond to somebody saying the sky isn't blue.
Ummm..did I not indicate that I’ve been a member for over 50 years? So, you’re saying that members bearing testimony that the apostles meet with Christ face to face, happens all the time? And because I said I’d never heard of that happening, I must not be a member and you don’t have time to respond to me. Well, okay then.
Although I agree with him more often than not, I don't like responses like Topcat just gave you.

I personally have seen a handful of times where a testimony was given either in sacrament meeting or in a lesson and either it was explicitly stated that "They know" that the leaders of the church literally meet with Jesus Christ in person, or it is heavily implied.

I also heard other missionaries testify of this on my mission, which then led ME to testify of this(which I obviously did NOT know, just like I don't know a great many things that I used to think I knew). This was shortly before the Lord woke me up to a great many things and I had the most incredible period of my life.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 2:24 pm
by RocknRoll
Stahura wrote: May 8th, 2019, 2:11 pm
RocknRoll wrote: May 8th, 2019, 2:08 pm
topcat wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:54 pm
RocknRoll wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:47 pm

I don’t know. How many times? I’ve actually never heard of this happening in my 50+ years as a member. Why would a “rank-and-file member” bear testimony of something they couldn’t possibly know?



In what way do the apostles encourage this?



How do you know that “many apostles have been asked…”? And how would you know that a particular apostle has or has not seen Christ? Also, that is not the definition of priestcraft either way.
I really don't have time to respond to somebody saying the sky isn't blue.
Ummm..did I not indicate that I’ve been a member for over 50 years? So, you’re saying that members bearing testimony that the apostles meet with Christ face to face, happens all the time? And because I said I’d never heard of that happening, I must not be a member and you don’t have time to respond to me. Well, okay then.
Although I agree with him more often than not, I don't like responses like Topcat just gave you.

I personally have seen a handful of times where a testimony was given either in sacrament meeting or in a lesson and either it was explicitly stated that "They know" that the leaders of the church literally meet with Jesus Christ in person, or it is heavily implied.

I also heard other missionaries testify of this on my mission, which then led ME to testify of this(which I obviously did NOT know, just like I don't know a great many things that I used to think I knew). This was shortly before the Lord woke me up to a great many things and I had the most incredible period of my life.
Well, I see TopCat edited his response. He originally asked me if I “was even a member of the church?”
Although I’ve never heard someone “bear testimony” of this, I have heard it mentioned. Mostly on internet boards. But then I’ve heard quite a few things mentioned that are most likely “Faith Promoting Rumor” or even just “LDS Myth”. I’ve learned to take these with a grain of salt. Some of the things I heard on my mission were laughable to say the least. And I would ask TopCat the same thing I would ask my companions…where did you hear that? And why do you think it’s anything more than that persons opinion or hearsay?

http://www.shields-research.org/Hoaxes/Hoaxes.htm

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 2:34 pm
by topcat
RocknRoll wrote: May 8th, 2019, 2:24 pm
Stahura wrote: May 8th, 2019, 2:11 pm
RocknRoll wrote: May 8th, 2019, 2:08 pm
topcat wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:54 pm

I really don't have time to respond to somebody saying the sky isn't blue.
Ummm..did I not indicate that I’ve been a member for over 50 years? So, you’re saying that members bearing testimony that the apostles meet with Christ face to face, happens all the time? And because I said I’d never heard of that happening, I must not be a member and you don’t have time to respond to me. Well, okay then.
Although I agree with him more often than not, I don't like responses like Topcat just gave you.

I personally have seen a handful of times where a testimony was given either in sacrament meeting or in a lesson and either it was explicitly stated that "They know" that the leaders of the church literally meet with Jesus Christ in person, or it is heavily implied.

I also heard other missionaries testify of this on my mission, which then led ME to testify of this(which I obviously did NOT know, just like I don't know a great many things that I used to think I knew). This was shortly before the Lord woke me up to a great many things and I had the most incredible period of my life.
Well, I see TopCat edited his response. He originally asked me if I “was even a member of the church?”
Although I’ve never heard someone “bear testimony” of this, I have heard it mentioned. Mostly on internet boards. But then I’ve heard quite a few things mentioned that are most likely “Faith Promoting Rumor” or even just “LDS Myth”. I’ve learned to take these with a grain of salt. Some of the things I heard on my mission were laughable to say the least. And I would ask TopCat the same thing I would ask my companions…where did you hear that? And why do you think it’s anything more than that persons opinion or hearsay?

http://www.shields-research.org/Hoaxes/Hoaxes.htm
The undebatable point is that most members of the Church believe that the apostles do have an audience with the Lord in the temple, or in Pres Nelson's case, in his bedroom, while his wife excuses herself from the room.

The common testimony that is said thousands of times each Sunday all over the world is this, "I know the Church is true and that we are led by a prophet of God." Something to that effect. The inherent meaning is that the apostles are true eyewitnesses. That is at least the HOPE, and in many cases, that is the absolute belief of the members.

I hope this clarifies my previous statement.

And with that being said, I ask, where do the apostles correct such testimonies or beliefs?

THEY DO NOT issue any corrections. They allow the belief (actually UNBELIEF) to continue. This unbelief (something that is believed as true though it's false) has the effect of holding up the apostles as something they are not. It sets them up as a light. Which is priestcraft. They therefore practice priestcraft in a very calculated way. They encourage such a belief, and continually quote each other as if they are especial witnesses, when there is nothing special about their witness at all. The only think that is special is that they go along with the fairy tale that they are special, and in some cases, they actually probably come to believe it.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 2:55 pm
by RocknRoll
topcat wrote: May 8th, 2019, 2:34 pm
RocknRoll wrote: May 8th, 2019, 2:24 pm
Stahura wrote: May 8th, 2019, 2:11 pm
RocknRoll wrote: May 8th, 2019, 2:08 pm

Ummm..did I not indicate that I’ve been a member for over 50 years? So, you’re saying that members bearing testimony that the apostles meet with Christ face to face, happens all the time? And because I said I’d never heard of that happening, I must not be a member and you don’t have time to respond to me. Well, okay then.
Although I agree with him more often than not, I don't like responses like Topcat just gave you.

I personally have seen a handful of times where a testimony was given either in sacrament meeting or in a lesson and either it was explicitly stated that "They know" that the leaders of the church literally meet with Jesus Christ in person, or it is heavily implied.

I also heard other missionaries testify of this on my mission, which then led ME to testify of this(which I obviously did NOT know, just like I don't know a great many things that I used to think I knew). This was shortly before the Lord woke me up to a great many things and I had the most incredible period of my life.
Well, I see TopCat edited his response. He originally asked me if I “was even a member of the church?”
Although I’ve never heard someone “bear testimony” of this, I have heard it mentioned. Mostly on internet boards. But then I’ve heard quite a few things mentioned that are most likely “Faith Promoting Rumor” or even just “LDS Myth”. I’ve learned to take these with a grain of salt. Some of the things I heard on my mission were laughable to say the least. And I would ask TopCat the same thing I would ask my companions…where did you hear that? And why do you think it’s anything more than that persons opinion or hearsay?

http://www.shields-research.org/Hoaxes/Hoaxes.htm
The undebatable point is that most members of the Church believe that the apostles do have an audience with the Lord in the temple, or in Pres Nelson's case, in his bedroom, while his wife excuses herself from the room.

The common testimony that is said thousands of times each Sunday all over the world is this, "I know the Church is true and that we are led by a prophet of God." Something to that effect. The inherent meaning is that the apostles are true eyewitnesses. That is at least the HOPE, and in many cases, that is the absolute belief of the members.

I hope this clarifies my previous statement.

And with that being said, I ask, where do the apostles correct such testimonies or beliefs?

THEY DO NOT issue any corrections. They allow the belief (actually UNBELIEF) to continue. This unbelief (something that is believed as true though it's false) has the effect of holding up the apostles as something they are not. It sets them up as a light. Which is priestcraft. They therefore practice priestcraft in a very calculated way. They encourage such a belief, and continually quote each other as if they are especial witnesses, when there is nothing special about their witness at all. The only think that is special is that they go along with the fairy tale that they are special, and in some cases, they actually probably come to believe it.
Believing that “we are led by a prophet of God” doesn’t necessarily mean believing that the prophet (or apostles) are meeting with Jesus Christ face to face. Some may mean that, but most likely don’t. Why do you think an apostle has any obligation to publicly state that he has or has not met The Lord face to face?
Never mind, don’t answer that. It sounds like we are talking past each other now, so I’m out.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 3:00 pm
by Cc07
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:57 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:48 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:11 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 12:36 pm

Basically if you are a member of the Church you have "priesthood power" whatever that means . . .
If I'm a baptized member of the Church and feel I should minister to someone, that is done through God's Power which is Priesthood Power, i.e. Priesthood is becoming completely meaningless.


Yes!! That is exactly what DC 84 says....
Okay then . . . well you are free to believe that, even though that is most definitely not what JS believed. But then again, that's just what people do today, instead of figuring out what the person who wrote it meant they just re-interpret it according to their own dictates.

Good luck with that and this is why women will get the priesthood. It is why the Church is dead as a religion. It was founded upon very specific principles that it was restoring that which had been lost anciently. We have moved beyond that to let's do whatever we feel is good and right.

As Elder Bednar stated in last Conference . . .200 years. That's about how long it takes for pure religion to be completely corrupted.
“In some respects, the relationship between Latter-day Saint women and priesthood has remained remarkably constant since Joseph Smith’s day. As in the earliest days of the Church, men are ordained to priesthood offices, while both women and men are invited to experience the power and blessings of the priesthood in their lives."
All you are doing is self-referencing yourself. Just because the Church makes this claim does not make it so.

Do some research on the Patriarchal Order and the Patriarchal Priesthood. It's not what the Church teaches today. The true doctrine is that the only time a woman holds any type of priesthood power or authority is only through her husband.

Not what is taught today.
If you’re going to reference quotes from lds.org then I can reference quotes from there too. You quote it if it fits your purpose but the minute it doesn’t you point fingers at mine?! I don’t think God works with picking and choosing doctrine.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 3:04 pm
by dezNatDefender
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:00 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:57 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:48 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:11 pm

Okay then . . . well you are free to believe that, even though that is most definitely not what JS believed. But then again, that's just what people do today, instead of figuring out what the person who wrote it meant they just re-interpret it according to their own dictates.

Good luck with that and this is why women will get the priesthood. It is why the Church is dead as a religion. It was founded upon very specific principles that it was restoring that which had been lost anciently. We have moved beyond that to let's do whatever we feel is good and right.

As Elder Bednar stated in last Conference . . .200 years. That's about how long it takes for pure religion to be completely corrupted.
“In some respects, the relationship between Latter-day Saint women and priesthood has remained remarkably constant since Joseph Smith’s day. As in the earliest days of the Church, men are ordained to priesthood offices, while both women and men are invited to experience the power and blessings of the priesthood in their lives."
All you are doing is self-referencing yourself. Just because the Church makes this claim does not make it so.

Do some research on the Patriarchal Order and the Patriarchal Priesthood. It's not what the Church teaches today. The true doctrine is that the only time a woman holds any type of priesthood power or authority is only through her husband.

Not what is taught today.
If you’re going to reference quotes from lds.org then I can reference quotes from there too. You quote it if it fits your purpose but the minute it doesn’t you point fingers at mine?! I don’t think God works with picking and choosing doctrine.
Clearly he does b/c you won't even look for historical evidences to support your viewpoint.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
by Cc07
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:04 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:00 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:57 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:48 pm
“In some respects, the relationship between Latter-day Saint women and priesthood has remained remarkably constant since Joseph Smith’s day. As in the earliest days of the Church, men are ordained to priesthood offices, while both women and men are invited to experience the power and blessings of the priesthood in their lives."
All you are doing is self-referencing yourself. Just because the Church makes this claim does not make it so.

Do some research on the Patriarchal Order and the Patriarchal Priesthood. It's not what the Church teaches today. The true doctrine is that the only time a woman holds any type of priesthood power or authority is only through her husband.

Not what is taught today.
If you’re going to reference quotes from lds.org then I can reference quotes from there too. You quote it if it fits your purpose but the minute it doesn’t you point fingers at mine?! I don’t think God works with picking and choosing doctrine.
Clearly he does b/c you won't even look for historical evidences to support your viewpoint.
Yes I have and I have quoted some here and when this church was established they believed that women are ordained with the power and blessing of the priesthood just as they are reiterating now.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 3:21 pm
by dezNatDefender
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:04 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:00 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 1:57 pm
All you are doing is self-referencing yourself. Just because the Church makes this claim does not make it so.

Do some research on the Patriarchal Order and the Patriarchal Priesthood. It's not what the Church teaches today. The true doctrine is that the only time a woman holds any type of priesthood power or authority is only through her husband.

Not what is taught today.
If you’re going to reference quotes from lds.org then I can reference quotes from there too. You quote it if it fits your purpose but the minute it doesn’t you point fingers at mine?! I don’t think God works with picking and choosing doctrine.
Clearly he does b/c you won't even look for historical evidences to support your viewpoint.
Yes I have and I have quoted some here and when this church was established they believed that women are ordained with the power and blessing of the priesthood just as they are reiterating now.
You haven't mentioned anything about Patriarchal Priesthood and you don't seem to believe in it. QED.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 3:51 pm
by justme
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:21 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:04 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:00 pm

If you’re going to reference quotes from lds.org then I can reference quotes from there too. You quote it if it fits your purpose but the minute it doesn’t you point fingers at mine?! I don’t think God works with picking and choosing doctrine.
Clearly he does b/c you won't even look for historical evidences to support your viewpoint.
Yes I have and I have quoted some here and when this church was established they believed that women are ordained with the power and blessing of the priesthood just as they are reiterating now.
You haven't mentioned anything about Patriarchal Priesthood and you don't seem to believe in it. QED.
Interesting miss use of QED.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 3:55 pm
by Lizzy60
justme wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:51 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:21 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:04 pm
Clearly he does b/c you won't even look for historical evidences to support your viewpoint.
Yes I have and I have quoted some here and when this church was established they believed that women are ordained with the power and blessing of the priesthood just as they are reiterating now.
You haven't mentioned anything about Patriarchal Priesthood and you don't seem to believe in it. QED.
Interesting miss use of QED.
Interesting (mis)spelling of "misuse".

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 3:56 pm
by justme
justme wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:51 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:21 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:04 pm
Clearly he does b/c you won't even look for historical evidences to support your viewpoint.
Yes I have and I have quoted some here and when this church was established they believed that women are ordained with the power and blessing of the priesthood just as they are reiterating now.
You haven't mentioned anything about Patriarchal Priesthood and you don't seem to believe in it. QED.
Interesting miss use of QED.
almost as good as my misuse of miss use. :)

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 8th, 2019, 8:02 pm
by Cc07
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:21 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:13 pm
dezNatDefender wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:04 pm
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 3:00 pm

If you’re going to reference quotes from lds.org then I can reference quotes from there too. You quote it if it fits your purpose but the minute it doesn’t you point fingers at mine?! I don’t think God works with picking and choosing doctrine.
Clearly he does b/c you won't even look for historical evidences to support your viewpoint.
Yes I have and I have quoted some here and when this church was established they believed that women are ordained with the power and blessing of the priesthood just as they are reiterating now.
You haven't mentioned anything about Patriarchal Priesthood and you don't seem to believe in it. QED.
I believe in the patriarchal order of the Priesthood- where did you get the idea I didn’t?! I’ve clearly stated that men hold priesthood authority..... and I’m aware of Priesthood lines. I’ve never said that women will get that authority. I mean we’ve been going at this all day so I’m pretty sure by now you know that I believe as is stated from quotes and scripture that if we are worthy anyone is available to receive and be endowed with Priesthood power. I’ve clearly stated my reasons and why this is. I’ve never questioned Priesthood Authority, keys or offices. Which is clearly given to man. And which I’m clearly ok with.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am
by iwontbackdown
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am When men and women go to the temple, they are both endowed with the same power, which by definition is priesthood power. While the authority of the priesthood is directed through priesthood keys, and priesthood keys are held only by worthy men, access to the power and blessings of the priesthood is available to all of God’s children.
Elder M. Russell Ballard

Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.
This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 9th, 2019, 8:11 am
by Mark
I AM wrote: May 8th, 2019, 11:12 am Both Jesus Christ and Isaiah foretell of our "Latter-Day" APOSTASY !

some here believe as I do that the scriptures show that history repeats itself.
"types and shadows"
"What has happened before, will happen again"
things that "have been and shall be"

Isaiah 44:7
7 "Who predicts what happens as do I, and is the equal of me in
appointing a people from of old as types, foretelling things to come?

Isaiah 46
10 I foretell the end from the beginning,
from ancient times things not yet done.
I speak, and my purposes take effect;
I accomplish all my will.

Isaiah uses what are called types from the past
to show the future.
What has happened before, will happen again.

Interesting how Jesus Christ Himself
gave us a commandment that we "search these things diligently"
3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."


ALL THE PROPHECIES OF ISAIAH PERTAIN TO US TODAY
All prophecies in Isaiah are prophecies of the last days.

Also interesting how Isaiah chooses to start his book.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-4, 13,14
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the donkey its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray, a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah, they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel, they have lapsed into APOSTASY.


http://www.isaiahexplained.com/1#commentary

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary


Where much is given - much is required.
Most members don't realize or read the scriptures enough
to know that the restored Gospel is a great responsibility
that we haven't been able to live up to.
But the Lord (knowing we wouldn't ) gave us the same
chance as he gave them -The peoples of the Book of Mormon.
That's why we have the Book of Mormon and the church was restored.
But their book is also a book of warning for "us" and ALL the Gentiles - U.S.
they tried to warn us, but we don't heed their warnings
and have made the same mistakes as they did.

The scriptures foretell our future and the downfall
of this "choice land" that WILL fall -
just like it did for them in the Book of Mormon when they too fell into apostasy and forfeited their blessings to us- that is why the Lord brought His gospel to us -
that is why we have their book - to give us a chance and not make the same mistakes as they did.
But we HAVE made the same mistakes and are repeating their history.
"they, who for a time enjoyed the blessings of the restored Gospel," they will be destroyed with the Gentiles and cut off from the Lord."
So now we are forfeiting the blessings of the gospel
and they are going back to them.
Hence - the first will be last, and the last, first.


1. The church is in total APOSTASY.
2. We no longer receive revelation - and haven't for over 100 years.
3. Christ no longer leads the church - and it's leaders and members have
become as "Sodom; you people of Gomorrah!" (below)

*** and because of our APOSTASY, just as with ancient Israel,
now comes the Lord's judgments on His people - "us" the church.

1-2-3 you're out !
The Times of the Gentiles is coming to an end.

*** "And upon my house shall it begin"

D&C 112:24-26
24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.


30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/1#commentary
Isaiah 1

10 Hear the word of Jehovah,
O leaders of Sodom;
give heed to the law of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!

To call Jehovah’s people and their leaders by the names Sodom and Gomorrah is to compare their moral degeneracy to that of those cities’ ancient inhabitants.
As the leaders of a people generally reflect the people themselves, and as the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s people parallel each other in the Book of Isaiah, their spiritual condition holds little hope for the rising generation.
When things reach that point, Jehovah’s people are fortunate indeed if Jehovah offers them a last warning. For those who accept it, there may yet be a chance of deliverance; otherwise, their destruction is assured.

Hear the word of Jehovah . . . give heed to the law of our God. Knowing that Jehovah does nothing unless he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets (Amos 3:7), he sends a warning voice before destroying his people. In the Book of Isaiah, that warning voice is Jehovah’s servant, of whom Isaiah is a type. Pointing them to Jehovah’s “law” and “word—to the terms of his covenant—the servant directs them to the one thing that has the power to reverse their circumstances. Replacing current aberrant religious practices with keeping Jehovah’s law and word remains his people’s only hope.



9 Had not Jehovah of Hosts left us a few survivors,
we should have been as Sodom,
or become like Gomorrah.

A type or precedent of the “few survivors” of Jehovah’s people who are “left” after the destruction are Lot and his two daughters who escaped God’s ancient destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24-30). Representing a pattern of what happens in the end-time, when Jehovah sends his angels to escort Lot and his family out of Sodom, his sons-in-law consider it foolish while Lot’s wife looks back and perishes (Genesis 19:12-23; cf. Matthew 24:31).
The full authoritative title “Jehovah of Hosts” underscores the gravity of these events and the fact that Israel’s God is in charge of world affairs.

Sodom . . . Gomorrah. The names Sodom and Gomorrah remind us of those ancient cities and their inhabitants and what they came to symbolize. In their perverse lifestyle their residents grew so aggressive that they attempted to violate the angels of God who were Lot’s guests (Genesis 19:1-11).
Isaiah’s drawing on this type when predicting the end-time lets us know that once they lose God’s light his people start to resemble those ancient inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah.
When his people’s devotion to Jehovah becomes but a shallow version of his law and word, it lacks the power to withstand evil.


The names Sodom and Gomorrah additionally function as word links to Babylon: “And Babylon, the most splendid of kingdoms, the glory and pride of Chaldeans, shall be [thrown down] as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah” (Isaiah 13:19). Isaiah’s structurally developed concept of a Greater Babylon—resembling John’s “Babylon the Great”—identifies it as an evil world conglomerate on the eve of its destruction (Isaiah 13-23, 47; Revelation 17-18).
That a wicked majority of Jehovah’s people suffers the same fate Babylon does implies that it too has become identified with Babylon.

The idea of “cities burned with fire” that describes the destruction of Jehovah’s people (v 7) alludes to the desolation of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their residents by a hail of fire and brimstone
(Genesis 19:24-25; cf. Isaiah 32:19).
While the end-time version of that event may involve a similar cosmic cataclysm, Isaiah attributes the destruction of the world’s cities to the king of Assyria/Babylon (Isaiah 37:26). In view of modern weaponry’s ability to destroy entire cities in seconds, such technology in the hands of an archtyrant may thus account for Isaiah’s end-time scenario (Isaiah 9:18-19).

YES - I AM A SERVANT (A TYPE) OF THE LORD !
AND I AM GIVING YOU ! THIS WARNING !

Looks like Lizzys wait is finally over. The End-Times Servant has arrived on LDSFF. We are toast.. :shock:

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am
by Cc07
iwontbackdown wrote: May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am When men and women go to the temple, they are both endowed with the same power, which by definition is priesthood power. While the authority of the priesthood is directed through priesthood keys, and priesthood keys are held only by worthy men, access to the power and blessings of the priesthood is available to all of God’s children.
Elder M. Russell Ballard

Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.
This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.
I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 9th, 2019, 9:17 am
by dezNatDefender
Cc07 wrote: May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am
iwontbackdown wrote: May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am When men and women go to the temple, they are both endowed with the same power, which by definition is priesthood power. While the authority of the priesthood is directed through priesthood keys, and priesthood keys are held only by worthy men, access to the power and blessings of the priesthood is available to all of God’s children.
Elder M. Russell Ballard

Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.
This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.
I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.
Not without a husband. I would suggest you look at the one phrase in the entire endowment about priesthood power and look at all the other words surrounding it.

Without a husband, that priesthood power is null. You have no power in the priesthood without a husband. It is a promise, but without a husband who holds the priesthood you have no power.

And the wording prior to that phrase (about power and priesthood), explicitly defines it . . . what is it it is the Patriarchal xxxx, i.e. the only way that promise comes about is through the Patriarchal Priesthood, i.e. by being married to a man who has the Priesthood.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 9th, 2019, 9:30 am
by iwontbackdown
Cc07 wrote: May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am
iwontbackdown wrote: May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am When men and women go to the temple, they are both endowed with the same power, which by definition is priesthood power. While the authority of the priesthood is directed through priesthood keys, and priesthood keys are held only by worthy men, access to the power and blessings of the priesthood is available to all of God’s children.
Elder M. Russell Ballard

Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.
This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.
I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.
There is no such thing as "Priesthood Power". There is Priesthood Authority and the Holy Ghost. In the temple, through the authority of the Priesthood, under the allowance of the Keys given to Joseph Smith, we can receive an endowment, eternal promises and gifts if we keep our covenant. There is absolutely nothing you are authorized to do with the Priesthood unless you are "conferred" the Priesthood by the laying on of hands and you are obedient to the commandments (D&C 121).

If you believe you can get the Priesthood Authority by simply accepting your endowment in the temple or by receiving some other ordinance, you are mistaken. The Scriptures are clear on this. We can only receive this by the laying on of hands by one having that authority.

Any power you have comes only by the Holy Ghost, which include the Gifts of the Spirit (gift of discernment, tongues, etc). Priesthood Authority authorizes you to perform specific ordinances and to receive revelation, preside and judge your own family. An office of the Priesthood authorizes you to receive revelation, preside over and judge your own quorum or jurisdiction. Furthermore, if you are disobedient to the commandments, you lose your Priesthood Authority as well as the ability to operate in those ordinances (D&c 121).

Again, the things Elder Ballard and others are saying is confusing people, and this is deliberate. They are intentionally trying to confuse people, they are intentionally trying to lead people down a false path. This is why I say the church is in apostasy. It's not just the members, the apostasy goes all the way to the top. I repeat what some of our members are now saying, like Associate Professor of Church History at BYU, Barbara Morgan Gardner:

"When teaching this concept to my students, I often ask, “If a stake is having a joint Young Men and Young Women presidency meeting, who presides?” Because both the stake Young Women president and the stake Young Men president were called and set apart by one holding priesthood keys (the stake president), with their callings, both have the same priesthood authority and therefore neither presides over the other. It would make sense for them to take turns in conducting meetings."
https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2019/0 ... r?lang=eng

This kind of talk is coming from people who want to believe that the Priesthood is fluid and handed out to whomever wants it by Virtue of simply having a calling. This is coming from a very covetous attitude by people who don't understand the very specific roles God has given men and women in his church. A woman can no more use the Priesthood than a man can have a baby. This is the way God designed us and we'll find happiness and joy if we follow his way.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 9th, 2019, 9:39 am
by iwontbackdown
Just want to be clear. We often use "Priesthood Power" to describe what is happening. I'm not saying that is the wrong way to say it, but it's not technically what is happening. The power comes from the Holy Ghost. We are simply using the Authority of the Priesthood to petition the Holy Spirit to perform an ordinance.

"I bless you..." means I'm using the authority of the Priesthood to allow the Holy Ghost to operate miracles in you.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 9th, 2019, 9:57 am
by dezNatDefender
iwontbackdown wrote: May 9th, 2019, 9:39 am We are simply using the Authority of the Priesthood to petition the Holy Spirit to perform an ordinance.
You have a lot of good stuff and I agree with you. But it's more than a petition, the Authority and Power of the Priesthood combined is a command. One who has the Authority and Power of the Priesthood doesn't petition the Holy Spirit, he commands.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 9th, 2019, 10:00 am
by Cc07
iwontbackdown wrote: May 9th, 2019, 9:30 am
Cc07 wrote: May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am
iwontbackdown wrote: May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am When men and women go to the temple, they are both endowed with the same power, which by definition is priesthood power. While the authority of the priesthood is directed through priesthood keys, and priesthood keys are held only by worthy men, access to the power and blessings of the priesthood is available to all of God’s children.
Elder M. Russell Ballard

Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.
This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.
I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.
There is no such thing as "Priesthood Power". There is Priesthood Authority and the Holy Ghost. In the temple, through the authority of the Priesthood, under the allowance of the Keys given to Joseph Smith, we can receive an endowment, eternal promises and gifts if we keep our covenant. There is absolutely nothing you are authorized to do with the Priesthood unless you are "conferred" the Priesthood by the laying on of hands and you are obedient to the commandments (D&C 121).

If you believe you can get the Priesthood Authority by simply accepting your endowment in the temple or by receiving some other ordinance, you are mistaken. The Scriptures are clear on this. We can only receive this by the laying on of hands by one having that authority.

Any power you have comes only by the Holy Ghost, which include the Gifts of the Spirit (gift of discernment, tongues, etc). Priesthood Authority authorizes you to perform specific ordinances and to receive revelation, preside and judge your own family. An office of the Priesthood authorizes you to receive revelation, preside over and judge your own quorum or jurisdiction. Furthermore, if you are disobedient to the commandments, you lose your Priesthood Authority as well as the ability to operate in those ordinances (D&c 121).

Again, the things Elder Ballard and others are saying is confusing people, and this is deliberate. They are intentionally trying to confuse people, they are intentionally trying to lead people down a false path. This is why I say the church is in apostasy. It's not just the members, the apostasy goes all the way to the top. I repeat what some of our members are now saying, like Associate Professor of Church History at BYU, Barbara Morgan Gardner:

"When teaching this concept to my students, I often ask, “If a stake is having a joint Young Men and Young Women presidency meeting, who presides?” Because both the stake Young Women president and the stake Young Men president were called and set apart by one holding priesthood keys (the stake president), with their callings, both have the same priesthood authority and therefore neither presides over the other. It would make sense for them to take turns in conducting meetings."
https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2019/0 ... r?lang=eng

This kind of talk is coming from people who want to believe that the Priesthood is fluid and handed out to whomever wants it by Virtue of simply having a calling. This is coming from a very covetous attitude by people who don't understand the very specific roles God has given men and women in his church. A woman can no more use the Priesthood than a man can have a baby. This is the way God designed us and we'll find happiness and joy if we follow his way.
I don’t believe I have been given priesthood authority nor do I believe I am endowed with priesthood authority nor do I believe any woman is given priesthood authority. I have said this over and over so the things you are saying about priesthood authority I already know and believe. And I do not believe that the things Elder Ballard and President Oaks and anyone else in the matter of priesthood power is false. I believe they are apostles of Jesus Christ. I believe the things they are saying. If they are indeed apostles of Jesus Christ then the things they are teaching are true. I’m sorry if you don’t believe them but I do. I do not believe that Christ’s church will ever go into apostasy again. We have been told He won’t ever allow that to happen again. I think you are over reacting to the idea of being endowed with Priesthood power. I think men are scared of the idea. When it’s not taking away from your priesthood. You as priesthood holders are giving priesthood power to those you bless and anoint. It’s really ok and its really a gift from God to His children. It’s not taking away from your abilities as brethren who hold the actual authority.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 9th, 2019, 10:01 am
by Cc07
And through the priesthood we are able to enter into covenants in the temple. And through those covenants we are endowed with Priesthood power.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 9th, 2019, 10:11 am
by Cc07
dezNatDefender wrote: May 9th, 2019, 9:17 am
Cc07 wrote: May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am
iwontbackdown wrote: May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am
Cc07 wrote: May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am When men and women go to the temple, they are both endowed with the same power, which by definition is priesthood power. While the authority of the priesthood is directed through priesthood keys, and priesthood keys are held only by worthy men, access to the power and blessings of the priesthood is available to all of God’s children.
Elder M. Russell Ballard

Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.
This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.
I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.
Not without a husband. I would suggest you look at the one phrase in the entire endowment about priesthood power and look at all the other words surrounding it.

Without a husband, that priesthood power is null. You have no power in the priesthood without a husband. It is a promise, but without a husband who holds the priesthood you have no power.

And the wording prior to that phrase (about power and priesthood), explicitly defines it . . . what is it it is the Patriarchal xxxx, i.e. the only way that promise comes about is through the Patriarchal Priesthood, i.e. by being married to a man who has the Priesthood.
When women and men are married in the temple it then becomes a shared priesthood power. But that doesn’t deny being endowed with power. If a woman enters the temple and receives her endowment she is endowed with priesthood power because she is entering into covenants with her Heavenly Father through covenants that are only possible through the priesthood.
Just curious... what about a married couple whose husband isn’t worthy of the priesthood he holds? Does that deny the wife of priesthood power? If she is worthy.

Re: We are witnessing a second great apostasy

Posted: May 9th, 2019, 10:15 am
by dezNatDefender
Cc07 wrote: May 9th, 2019, 10:11 am
dezNatDefender wrote: May 9th, 2019, 9:17 am
Cc07 wrote: May 9th, 2019, 9:07 am
iwontbackdown wrote: May 9th, 2019, 7:03 am

This is what sowing confusion looks like.

Priesthood authority can only be "conferred" upon a man by the laying on of hands by one having the same or higher office in said priesthood. The words, "confer unto you the [Aaronic/Melchezidek] Priesthood" must be used in this prayer or no priesthood authority has been given. There is no other way priesthood authority is given. This authority allows men, and men only to perform specific ordinances that pertain to the priesthood keys which the Lord has given us through Joseph Smith.

Hebrews 5
"1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.
3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron."

All "power" that comes through the Priesthood technically operates under the influence of the Holy Ghost.
"Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground" D&C 8:3

The most important power that men, as the husband and father of their family will exercise with this authority is taught in the temple, specifically during the sealing ordinance. They will act as mediators and judges of their wives at the time of judgment. This principle is taught by Paul (as I quoted in my original post). Husbands and wives are as Christ and his church. The church must be in obedience to Christ in all things, just as the wife should be in the same obedience to her husband in all things as he is a righteous judge.

Women have no priesthood authority or priesthood power. They never have anywhere in God's kingdom. Their role is a "help meet" to her husband and motherhood, also explained in the New Testament. This is God's plan of happiness. This isn't designed to repress women, it's designed to glorify them and give them joy.
I agree with everything about Priesthood Authority and it’s rightful place to be given to man. But women are endowed with Priesthood Power. That is what we are told in the endowment and it’s always been taught from the beginning. All gifts I’ve been given are through Priesthood Power which is a gift from God. We have been told time and time again that salvation is personal but exaltation is with the family. I’m not and have never been one to wish to hold priesthood authority. But I recognize the gift of the priesthood and that I am endowed with that power.
Not without a husband. I would suggest you look at the one phrase in the entire endowment about priesthood power and look at all the other words surrounding it.

Without a husband, that priesthood power is null. You have no power in the priesthood without a husband. It is a promise, but without a husband who holds the priesthood you have no power.

And the wording prior to that phrase (about power and priesthood), explicitly defines it . . . what is it it is the Patriarchal xxxx, i.e. the only way that promise comes about is through the Patriarchal Priesthood, i.e. by being married to a man who has the Priesthood.
When women and men are married in the temple it then becomes a shared priesthood power. But that doesn’t deny being endowed with power. If a woman enters the temple and receives her endowment she is endowed with priesthood power because she is entering into covenants with her Heavenly Father through covenants that are only possible through the priesthood.
Just curious... what about a married couple whose husband isn’t worthy of the priesthood he holds? Does that deny the wife of priesthood power? If she is worthy.
It's not shared, it's more like it flows from her husband to her. If her husband isn't righteous than yes he denies his wife priesthood power, ultimately if he isn't righteous (and she is), she will be taken from him and given to another man. That's why it's called Patriarchal . . .as in man-lead, guided, directed.