LDS Freedom Forum

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:23 am

Stahura wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:14 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:10 am

Stahura wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:04 am

I originally noted down this source and went through it awhile ago, In my notes I only have written that on page 7/12 it says:

"Bro Able's was advised to visit the coloured population" ( I just checked, it's there on page 7/12 in the middle)

I'm looking at it again to look for Elder Page's part.

That's cool, I understand, going through source documents is really tough.
Your interpretation of your quote is that well people considered him to be black. But that's not what your quote states.

If someone was a quarter Indian, it would be a logical thing to for that person to preach the gospel to the Indians. But that doesn't mean that person would be considered to be an Indian. So what if he was "advised to visit the coloured population", that doesn't mean Abel was considered to be a "coloured". He was mixed blood and what better person to preach to the coloured population that someone who is mixed.
Mixed != black.

I'd have to see the rest of the quote to see if there is any other meaning out of it.

I guess you're *technically* correct, I can't really say much in response to that.

My 2nd quote that I just shared above shows that Bro. Able would never consider himself equal with his brethren(White brethren). I don't actually know, were Indians and other "coloured" races not considered equal to whites in the same way blacks were not?

I know Indians definitely weren't considered equal to whites, to the same degree as blacks-probably not; but you also have to remember it wasn't that long ago that the caste system was in place
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cl ... ed_Kingdom (early 1700s)

They probably weren't considered on the same degree b/c they couldn't be enslaved. This is hard for modern ears, but the colonizers originally tried to enslave Indians and they did, but it didn't work. No matter what they did, the Indians just wouldn't work-they would just starve and die, take beatings, etc. They just wouldn't work as slaves. But they were definitely not see on the same level as Europeans-that's for sure.

I would agree Bro. Able wouldn't consider himself equal or white, but he also didn't consider himself black. See 1860 Census. JS was IMO extremely compassionate to him, he recognized he was lost as far as his heritage-not accepted among whites and definitely not accepted among blacks. It's why he was declared an orphan. JS I think was trying to show him, look you aren't lost another generation or two and you posterity will be white (or even that he is white now)-I would consider Abel white and JS certainly considered him able to hold the priesthood. But he never ordained a black man, mulatto-yes, white-yes, black-no.

That's the point.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:26 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:15 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:58 am https://keydifferences.com/difference-b ... ority.html

Look at the verbage.

By claiming women have "priesthood power", renders the term priesthood invalid. Because by putting the pre-fix priesthood it now means well anything

Amazingly enough lds.org still has the right definition:
https://www.lds.org/topics/priesthood?lang=eng
There is a difference between the authority of the priesthood and the power of the priesthood. Priesthood authority comes from ordination. Power comes from personal righteousness.

A woman can't have priesthood power; she doesn't hold the priesthood so priesthood power is meaningless.

If you mean that women have power from God and that power from God is called priesthood and that power from God doesn't require an ordination, then you have just destroyed any meaningful usage of the term "priesthood". Because now I can turn it around and say, any person (man, woman, child) can have power from God and that power is called priesthood and it doesn't require an ordination.

With this type of muddying the waters, the Church won't survive. It can't, it will fracture.

And that definition clearly states the difference between priesthood authority which men hold and priesthood power which is given from men with authority to those that are righteous. Everyone is able to receive priesthood blessings through those with authority if they are righteous and worthy. I can not use priesthood authority but if I’m worthy I can receive priesthood blessings which is a gift from God . It’s given to everyone through the authority of priesthood holders.

No, it's not priesthood power, it's priesthood blessings (Fixed it for ya!). There is a big difference.

Only in the last couple of years has priesthood blessings changed to priesthood power, which is incorrect.

Please tell me what priesthood power you have to "bless and help others"?

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:26 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:15 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:58 am https://keydifferences.com/difference-b ... ority.html

Look at the verbage.

By claiming women have "priesthood power", renders the term priesthood invalid. Because by putting the pre-fix priesthood it now means well anything

Amazingly enough lds.org still has the right definition:
https://www.lds.org/topics/priesthood?lang=eng
There is a difference between the authority of the priesthood and the power of the priesthood. Priesthood authority comes from ordination. Power comes from personal righteousness.

A woman can't have priesthood power; she doesn't hold the priesthood so priesthood power is meaningless.

If you mean that women have power from God and that power from God is called priesthood and that power from God doesn't require an ordination, then you have just destroyed any meaningful usage of the term "priesthood". Because now I can turn it around and say, any person (man, woman, child) can have power from God and that power is called priesthood and it doesn't require an ordination.

With this type of muddying the waters, the Church won't survive. It can't, it will fracture.

And that definition clearly states the difference between priesthood authority which men hold and priesthood power which is given from men with authority to those that are righteous. Everyone is able to receive priesthood blessings through those with authority if they are righteous and worthy. I can not use priesthood authority but if I’m worthy I can receive priesthood blessings which is a gift from God . It’s given to everyone through the authority of priesthood holders.

No, it's not priesthood power, it's priesthood blessings (Fixed it for ya!). There is a big difference.

Only in the last couple of years has priesthood blessings changed to priesthood power, which is incorrect.

Please tell me what priesthood power you have to "bless and help others"?

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:58 am https://keydifferences.com/difference-b ... ority.html

Look at the verbage.

By claiming women have "priesthood power", renders the term priesthood invalid. Because by putting the pre-fix priesthood it now means well anything

Amazingly enough lds.org still has the right definition:
https://www.lds.org/topics/priesthood?lang=eng
There is a difference between the authority of the priesthood and the power of the priesthood. Priesthood authority comes from ordination. Power comes from personal righteousness.

A woman can't have priesthood power; she doesn't hold the priesthood so priesthood power is meaningless.

If you mean that women have power from God and that power from God is called priesthood and that power from God doesn't require an ordination, then you have just destroyed any meaningful usage of the term "priesthood". Because now I can turn it around and say, any person (man, woman, child) can have power from God and that power is called priesthood and it doesn't require an ordination.

With this type of muddying the waters, the Church won't survive. It can't, it will fracture.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:41 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:58 am https://keydifferences.com/difference-b ... ority.html

Look at the verbage.

By claiming women have "priesthood power", renders the term priesthood invalid. Because by putting the pre-fix priesthood it now means well anything

Amazingly enough lds.org still has the right definition:
https://www.lds.org/topics/priesthood?lang=eng
There is a difference between the authority of the priesthood and the power of the priesthood. Priesthood authority comes from ordination. Power comes from personal righteousness.

A woman can't have priesthood power; she doesn't hold the priesthood so priesthood power is meaningless.

If you mean that women have power from God and that power from God is called priesthood and that power from God doesn't require an ordination, then you have just destroyed any meaningful usage of the term "priesthood". Because now I can turn it around and say, any person (man, woman, child) can have power from God and that power is called priesthood and it doesn't require an ordination.

With this type of muddying the waters, the Church won't survive. It can't, it will fracture.

And amazingly enough in the same topic as you above linked is also listed this...
Women Participate in the Work of the Priesthood

President M. Russell Ballard taught: “In our Heavenly Father’s great priesthood-endowed plan, men have the unique responsibility to administer the priesthood, but they are not the priesthood. Men and women have different but equally valued roles. Just as a woman cannot conceive a child without a man, so a man cannot fully exercise the power of the priesthood to establish an eternal family without a woman. In other words, in the eternal perspective, both the procreative power and the priesthood power are shared by husband and wife” (“This Is My Work and My Glory,” Apr. 2013 general conference).

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:40 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.

Yes He would. He grants blessings for all, but His Power to proclaim blessings under the Priesthood is only granted to men. It has always been so. DC 84 lays out the passing down of the Priesthood from father to son for generations.

Christ is the ultimate High Priest, He holds all the Power of the Priesthood and from Him. To the bold, and you are confusing what the Priesthood even is. Of course all can use the Atonement, and Priesthood blessings are for everyone, but Priesthood Power is only for those who have Priesthood Authority. You can't have Priesthood Power if you don't hold the Priesthood.

Unless you widen the definition of the Priesthood to include anything that is done in the Church. You can certainly do that, but once you do you make any offices of the Priesthood just figureheads only.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:43 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:41 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:58 am https://keydifferences.com/difference-b ... ority.html

Look at the verbage.

By claiming women have "priesthood power", renders the term priesthood invalid. Because by putting the pre-fix priesthood it now means well anything

Amazingly enough lds.org still has the right definition:
https://www.lds.org/topics/priesthood?lang=eng
There is a difference between the authority of the priesthood and the power of the priesthood. Priesthood authority comes from ordination. Power comes from personal righteousness.

A woman can't have priesthood power; she doesn't hold the priesthood so priesthood power is meaningless.

If you mean that women have power from God and that power from God is called priesthood and that power from God doesn't require an ordination, then you have just destroyed any meaningful usage of the term "priesthood". Because now I can turn it around and say, any person (man, woman, child) can have power from God and that power is called priesthood and it doesn't require an ordination.

With this type of muddying the waters, the Church won't survive. It can't, it will fracture.

And amazingly enough in the same topic as you above linked is also listed this...
Women Participate in the Work of the Priesthood

President M. Russell Ballard taught: “In our Heavenly Father’s great priesthood-endowed plan, men have the unique responsibility to administer the priesthood, but they are not the priesthood. Men and women have different but equally valued roles. Just as a woman cannot conceive a child without a man, so a man cannot fully exercise the power of the priesthood to establish an eternal family without a woman. In other words, in the eternal perspective, both the procreative power and the priesthood power are shared by husband and wife” (“This Is My Work and My Glory,” Apr. 2013 general conference).

And Elder Ballard is wrong. 2013, not too long ago . . .I guess our religion was born yesterday.

Please find me something from 30+ years ago to back up Elder Ballard's incorrect teaching.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:35 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:26 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:15 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:58 am https://keydifferences.com/difference-b ... ority.html

Look at the verbage.

By claiming women have "priesthood power", renders the term priesthood invalid. Because by putting the pre-fix priesthood it now means well anything

Amazingly enough lds.org still has the right definition:
https://www.lds.org/topics/priesthood?lang=eng
There is a difference between the authority of the priesthood and the power of the priesthood. Priesthood authority comes from ordination. Power comes from personal righteousness.

A woman can't have priesthood power; she doesn't hold the priesthood so priesthood power is meaningless.

If you mean that women have power from God and that power from God is called priesthood and that power from God doesn't require an ordination, then you have just destroyed any meaningful usage of the term "priesthood". Because now I can turn it around and say, any person (man, woman, child) can have power from God and that power is called priesthood and it doesn't require an ordination.

With this type of muddying the waters, the Church won't survive. It can't, it will fracture.

And that definition clearly states the difference between priesthood authority which men hold and priesthood power which is given from men with authority to those that are righteous. Everyone is able to receive priesthood blessings through those with authority if they are righteous and worthy. I can not use priesthood authority but if I’m worthy I can receive priesthood blessings which is a gift from God . It’s given to everyone through the authority of priesthood holders.

No, it's not priesthood power, it's priesthood blessings (Fixed it for ya!). There is a big difference.

Only in the last couple of years has priesthood blessings changed to priesthood power, which is incorrect.

Please tell me what priesthood power you have to "bless and help others"?

If it’s coming from Christ’s apostles I dare say it’s not incorrect. God’s power is given to those who are worthy to receive it. Just as I quoted above Priesthood authority is given to men and Priesthood power is given to all those who are worthy to receive it. Maybe you’re understanding of verbiage is what’s off.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:45 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:43 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:41 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:58 am https://keydifferences.com/difference-b ... ority.html

Look at the verbage.

By claiming women have "priesthood power", renders the term priesthood invalid. Because by putting the pre-fix priesthood it now means well anything

Amazingly enough lds.org still has the right definition:
https://www.lds.org/topics/priesthood?lang=eng
There is a difference between the authority of the priesthood and the power of the priesthood. Priesthood authority comes from ordination. Power comes from personal righteousness.

A woman can't have priesthood power; she doesn't hold the priesthood so priesthood power is meaningless.

If you mean that women have power from God and that power from God is called priesthood and that power from God doesn't require an ordination, then you have just destroyed any meaningful usage of the term "priesthood". Because now I can turn it around and say, any person (man, woman, child) can have power from God and that power is called priesthood and it doesn't require an ordination.

With this type of muddying the waters, the Church won't survive. It can't, it will fracture.

And amazingly enough in the same topic as you above linked is also listed this...
Women Participate in the Work of the Priesthood

President M. Russell Ballard taught: “In our Heavenly Father’s great priesthood-endowed plan, men have the unique responsibility to administer the priesthood, but they are not the priesthood. Men and women have different but equally valued roles. Just as a woman cannot conceive a child without a man, so a man cannot fully exercise the power of the priesthood to establish an eternal family without a woman. In other words, in the eternal perspective, both the procreative power and the priesthood power are shared by husband and wife” (“This Is My Work and My Glory,” Apr. 2013 general conference).

And Elder Ballard is wrong. 2013, not too long ago . . .I guess our religion was born yesterday.

Please find me something from 30+ years ago to back up Elder Ballard's incorrect teaching.

I don’t need to find something from 30 plus years ago as I believe in current prophets and apostles who lead this Church TODAY not 30 years ago.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:45 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:40 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.

Yes He would. He grants blessings for all, but His Power to proclaim blessings under the Priesthood is only granted to men. It has always been so. DC 84 lays out the passing down of the Priesthood from father to son for generations.

Christ is the ultimate High Priest, He holds all the Power of the Priesthood and from Him. To the bold, and you are confusing what the Priesthood even is. Of course all can use the Atonement, and Priesthood blessings are for everyone, but Priesthood Power is only for those who have Priesthood Authority. You can't have Priesthood Power if you don't hold the Priesthood.

Unless you widen the definition of the Priesthood to include anything that is done in the Church. You can certainly do that, but once you do you make any offices of the Priesthood just figureheads only.

No it’s not- Priesthood Authority is given to men. Priesthood power is given through men to all who are worthy to receive it. We are going in circles. Your gift of the Priesthood is not for you. If you believe that then you don’t understand the Priesthood at all. It’s not about the bearer of the Priesthood- it’s about the service and gift to the receiver. I’m sorry you even would say Elder Ballard is wrong. If they are quoting him at lds.org under the topic of Priesthood then that is exactly what the Church teaches and believes. If you think that an apostle of Jesus Christ is wrong then you don’t believe in this Church and the teachings of Jesus Christ as they are voices of Him.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:56 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:45 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:40 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:25 am Why would God grant His power to only be used for men? He would not. That’s like saying only men can used Christ’s atonement.

Yes He would. He grants blessings for all, but His Power to proclaim blessings under the Priesthood is only granted to men. It has always been so. DC 84 lays out the passing down of the Priesthood from father to son for generations.

Christ is the ultimate High Priest, He holds all the Power of the Priesthood and from Him. To the bold, and you are confusing what the Priesthood even is. Of course all can use the Atonement, and Priesthood blessings are for everyone, but Priesthood Power is only for those who have Priesthood Authority. You can't have Priesthood Power if you don't hold the Priesthood.

Unless you widen the definition of the Priesthood to include anything that is done in the Church. You can certainly do that, but once you do you make any offices of the Priesthood just figureheads only.

No it’s not- Priesthood Authority is given to men. Priesthood power is given through men to all who are worthy to receive it. We are going in circles. Your gift of the Priesthood is not for you. If you believe that then you don’t understand the Priesthood at all. It’s not about the bearer of the Priesthood- it’s about the service and gift to the receiver. I’m sorry you even would say Elder Ballard is wrong. If they are quoting him at lds.org under the topic of Priesthood then that is exactly what the Church teaches and believes. If you think that an apostle of Jesus Christ is wrong then you don’t believe in this Church and the teachings of Jesus Christ as they are voices of Him.

I never claimed nor do I that the Priesthood is for me. Priesthood power is different than priesthood blessings. Big difference. No, Priesthood power is not given to all those, it's priesthood blessings.

Power is something you are, Authority is something you have, Blessing is something you are given.
Priesthood Authority means you have Priesthood, Priesthood Power means you are a worthy Priesthood holder.

Priesthood Blessing is what is given when a Priesthood holder who has Priesthood Power blesses the live's of others.

Yes so what I say Elder Ballard is wrong, I can get my own revelation-I don't need to follow lock-step like a minion with the Church.

No, I'd like an Apostle of the Church to actually be an apostle; they certainly have the right to be an apostle but I don't see any claims they have seen Christ.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:59 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:56 am

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:45 am

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:40 am
Yes He would. He grants blessings for all, but His Power to proclaim blessings under the Priesthood is only granted to men. It has always been so. DC 84 lays out the passing down of the Priesthood from father to son for generations.

Christ is the ultimate High Priest, He holds all the Power of the Priesthood and from Him. To the bold, and you are confusing what the Priesthood even is. Of course all can use the Atonement, and Priesthood blessings are for everyone, but Priesthood Power is only for those who have Priesthood Authority. You can't have Priesthood Power if you don't hold the Priesthood.

Unless you widen the definition of the Priesthood to include anything that is done in the Church. You can certainly do that, but once you do you make any offices of the Priesthood just figureheads only.

No it’s not- Priesthood Authority is given to men. Priesthood power is given through men to all who are worthy to receive it. We are going in circles. Your gift of the Priesthood is not for you. If you believe that then you don’t understand the Priesthood at all. It’s not about the bearer of the Priesthood- it’s about the service and gift to the receiver. I’m sorry you even would say Elder Ballard is wrong. If they are quoting him at lds.org under the topic of Priesthood then that is exactly what the Church teaches and believes. If you think that an apostle of Jesus Christ is wrong then you don’t believe in this Church and the teachings of Jesus Christ as they are voices of Him.

I never claimed nor do I that the Priesthood is for me. Priesthood power is different than priesthood blessings. Big difference. No, Priesthood power is not given to all those, it's priesthood blessings.

Power is something you are, Authority is something you have, Blessing is something you are given.
Priesthood Authority means you have Priesthood, Priesthood Power means you are a worthy Priesthood holder.

Priesthood Blessing is what is given when a Priesthood holder who has Priesthood Power blesses the live's of others.

Yes so what I say Elder Ballard is wrong, I can get my own revelation-I don't need to follow lock-step like a minion with the Church.

No, I'd like an Apostle of the Church to actually be an apostle; they certainly have the right to be an apostle but I don't see any claims they have seen Christ.

In 1912, Elder James Talmage further expanded this to include single sisters being endowed when he suggested that a single woman being endowed shared the priesthood of her future husband:

"It is a precept of the Church that women of the Church share the authority of the Priesthood with their husbands, actual or prospective; and therefore women, whether taking the endowment for themselves or for the dead, are not ordained to specific rank in the Priesthood."[21]

100 years ago- is this good enough for you. Almost the exact same quote as President Ballard.

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:03 pm The context and meaning of priesthood power has been broadened a bit in order to appease women who feel inferior to men because they can not hold the Priesthood?

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:11 pm

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:03 pm The context and meaning of priesthood power has been broadened a bit in order to appease women who feel inferior to men because they can not hold the Priesthood?

Yes!!! Finally someone who understands . . . thank you! It's being broadened not by a bit but by a whole lot.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701
------------
""Being endowed with priesthood power — God’s power — means having greater power to press forward in fulfilling God’s purposes," Sister Bingham said. "... It magnifies us to be more than we could be on our own.""

"In that sense then, "Priesthood power is spiritual power used for priesthood purposes," she said. "I have been given a gift of power — power to receive revelation, power to act."

Too often, women don't realize that it is through priesthood power that they go about accomplishing good in the world, she continued. But all good in the world is done through God's power.
----------
Basically if you are a member of the Church you have "priesthood power" whatever that means . . .
If I'm a baptized member of the Church and feel I should minister to someone, that is done through God's Power which is Priesthood Power, i.e. Priesthood is becoming completely meaningless.

Let's just chuck DC 84.

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:03 pm The context and meaning of priesthood power has been broadened a bit in order to appease women who feel inferior to men because they can not hold the Priesthood?

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:11 pm

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:03 pm The context and meaning of priesthood power has been broadened a bit in order to appease women who feel inferior to men because they can not hold the Priesthood?

Yes!!! Finally someone who understands . . . thank you! It's being broadened not by a bit but by a whole lot.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701
------------
""Being endowed with priesthood power — God’s power — means having greater power to press forward in fulfilling God’s purposes," Sister Bingham said. "... It magnifies us to be more than we could be on our own.""

"In that sense then, "Priesthood power is spiritual power used for priesthood purposes," she said. "I have been given a gift of power — power to receive revelation, power to act."

Too often, women don't realize that it is through priesthood power that they go about accomplishing good in the world, she continued. But all good in the world is done through God's power.
----------
Basically if you are a member of the Church you have "priesthood power" whatever that means . . .
If I'm a baptized member of the Church and feel I should minister to someone, that is done through God's Power which is Priesthood Power, i.e. Priesthood is becoming completely meaningless.

Let's just chuck DC 84.

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 7:53 am Just because a modern day Prophet bears witness of Christ does not mean he has weekly face to face meetings with him.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:36 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:11 pm

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:03 pm The context and meaning of priesthood power has been broadened a bit in order to appease women who feel inferior to men because they can not hold the Priesthood?

Yes!!! Finally someone who understands . . . thank you! It's being broadened not by a bit but by a whole lot.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701
------------
""Being endowed with priesthood power — God’s power — means having greater power to press forward in fulfilling God’s purposes," Sister Bingham said. "... It magnifies us to be more than we could be on our own.""

"In that sense then, "Priesthood power is spiritual power used for priesthood purposes," she said. "I have been given a gift of power — power to receive revelation, power to act."

Too often, women don't realize that it is through priesthood power that they go about accomplishing good in the world, she continued. But all good in the world is done through God's power.
----------
Basically if you are a member of the Church you have "priesthood power" whatever that means . . .
If I'm a baptized member of the Church and feel I should minister to someone, that is done through God's Power which is Priesthood Power, i.e. Priesthood is becoming completely meaningless.

Let's just chuck DC 84.

Basically if you are a member of the Church you have "priesthood power" whatever that means . . .
If I'm a baptized member of the Church and feel I should minister to someone, that is done through God's Power which is Priesthood Power, i.e. Priesthood is becoming completely meaningless.


Yes!! That is exactly what DC 84 says....

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:43 pm How many times have the apostles been in a testimony meeting (even General Conference) in a random ward or stake when a rank-and-file member gets up and bears a testimony that the apostles meet Christ face to face, or something to that effect? Does the false statement ever get corrected?

NO. In fact, the apostles RUN WITH SUCH falsehoods. They actually DEPEND on the members doing their dirty work! It's not that the apostles get up and say "I meet with Jesus in the upper room of the temple," it's the MEMBERS who bear that testimony. And the apostles HAPPILY ALLOW and ENCOURAGE such embellishments and outright falsehoods.

This alone is a sure sign of apostasy.
Many modern apostles have been asked if any of the apostles see Christ or have seen Him. And they have answered NO. But they allow the lies to continue unabated. This is called priestcraft.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:11 pm

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:36 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:11 pm

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:03 pm The context and meaning of priesthood power has been broadened a bit in order to appease women who feel inferior to men because they can not hold the Priesthood?

Yes!!! Finally someone who understands . . . thank you! It's being broadened not by a bit but by a whole lot.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701
------------
""Being endowed with priesthood power — God’s power — means having greater power to press forward in fulfilling God’s purposes," Sister Bingham said. "... It magnifies us to be more than we could be on our own.""

"In that sense then, "Priesthood power is spiritual power used for priesthood purposes," she said. "I have been given a gift of power — power to receive revelation, power to act."

Too often, women don't realize that it is through priesthood power that they go about accomplishing good in the world, she continued. But all good in the world is done through God's power.
----------
Basically if you are a member of the Church you have "priesthood power" whatever that means . . .
If I'm a baptized member of the Church and feel I should minister to someone, that is done through God's Power which is Priesthood Power, i.e. Priesthood is becoming completely meaningless.

Let's just chuck DC 84.

Basically if you are a member of the Church you have "priesthood power" whatever that means . . .
If I'm a baptized member of the Church and feel I should minister to someone, that is done through God's Power which is Priesthood Power, i.e. Priesthood is becoming completely meaningless.


Yes!! That is exactly what DC 84 says....

Okay then . . . well you are free to believe that, even though that is most definitely not what JS believed. But then again, that's just what people do today, instead of figuring out what the person who wrote it meant they just re-interpret it according to their own dictates.

Good luck with that and this is why women will get the priesthood. It is why the Church is dead as a religion. It was founded upon very specific principles that it was restoring that which had been lost anciently. We have moved beyond that to let's do whatever we feel is good and right.

As Elder Bednar stated in last Conference . . .200 years. That's about how long it takes for pure religion to be completely corrupted.

RocknRoll wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:47 pm

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:43 pm How many times have the apostles been in a testimony meeting (even General Conference) in a random ward or stake when a rank-and-file member gets up and bears a testimony that the apostles meet Christ face to face, or something to that effect? Does the false statement ever get corrected?

I don’t know. How many times? I’ve actually never heard of this happening in my 50+ years as a member. Why would a “rank-and-file member” bear testimony of something they couldn’t possibly know?

NO. In fact, the apostles RUN WITH SUCH falsehoods. They actually DEPEND on the members doing their dirty work! It's not that the apostles get up and say "I meet with Jesus in the upper room of the temple," it's the MEMBERS who bear that testimony. And the apostles HAPPILY ALLOW and ENCOURAGE such embellishments and outright falsehoods.

In what way do the apostles encourage this?

This alone is a sure sign of apostasy.
Many modern apostles have been asked if any of the apostles see Christ or have seen Him. And they have answered NO. But they allow the lies to continue unabated. This is called priestcraft.

How do you know that “many apostles have been asked…”? And how would you know that a particular apostle has or has not seen Christ? Also, that is not the definition of priestcraft either way.

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:48 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:11 pm

Cc07 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:36 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:11 pm
Yes!!! Finally someone who understands . . . thank you! It's being broadened not by a bit but by a whole lot.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... ency-49701
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""Being endowed with priesthood power — God’s power — means having greater power to press forward in fulfilling God’s purposes," Sister Bingham said. "... It magnifies us to be more than we could be on our own.""

"In that sense then, "Priesthood power is spiritual power used for priesthood purposes," she said. "I have been given a gift of power — power to receive revelation, power to act."

Too often, women don't realize that it is through priesthood power that they go about accomplishing good in the world, she continued. But all good in the world is done through God's power.
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Basically if you are a member of the Church you have "priesthood power" whatever that means . . .
If I'm a baptized member of the Church and feel I should minister to someone, that is done through God's Power which is Priesthood Power, i.e. Priesthood is becoming completely meaningless.

Let's just chuck DC 84.

Basically if you are a member of the Church you have "priesthood power" whatever that means . . .
If I'm a baptized member of the Church and feel I should minister to someone, that is done through God's Power which is Priesthood Power, i.e. Priesthood is becoming completely meaningless.


Yes!! That is exactly what DC 84 says....

Okay then . . . well you are free to believe that, even though that is most definitely not what JS believed. But then again, that's just what people do today, instead of figuring out what the person who wrote it meant they just re-interpret it according to their own dictates.

Good luck with that and this is why women will get the priesthood. It is why the Church is dead as a religion. It was founded upon very specific principles that it was restoring that which had been lost anciently. We have moved beyond that to let's do whatever we feel is good and right.

As Elder Bednar stated in last Conference . . .200 years. That's about how long it takes for pure religion to be completely corrupted.

“In some respects, the relationship between Latter-day Saint women and priesthood has remained remarkably constant since Joseph Smith’s day. As in the earliest days of the Church, men are ordained to priesthood offices, while both women and men are invited to experience the power and blessings of the priesthood in their lives."

Gage wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:03 pm The context and meaning of priesthood power has been broadened a bit in order to appease women who feel inferior to men because they can not hold the Priesthood?