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Progression of Christ

Posted: May 4th, 2019, 5:28 pm
by sunfly
I’m trying to become better acquainted with the Savior in my life. I have a long ways to go, but in my pondering I have had a few questions that I’m embarrassed to say I don’t know the answer.

We have been taught that the Father once lived as we do mortally and progressed to becoming our God the Father. Did Jesus also? Or was his mortal ministry on our earth his only mortal experience? If so, how did he become a God himself, if he didn’t go through the regular mortal progression? Only thing that I can think is he was different because he was the first spirit son of the father, but that doesn’t make sense either. Or because he was born of a mortal woman and spirit father? My brain hurts! Some things just are hard to comprehend. Perhaps someone here gets it, and can help me out. If so, my thanks!

Re: Progression of Christ

Posted: May 4th, 2019, 8:31 pm
by The Airbender

Re: Progression of Christ

Posted: May 4th, 2019, 10:55 pm
by mes5464
Christ did go through the same mortal existence we do, he just became a god before he came to mortality. HF did the same thing. "I do nothing save that which I have seen the father do." The Holy Ghost will likely be the next savior for the next generation because he too can say, "I do nothing save that which I have seen the father do."

That's my two cents.

Re: Progression of Christ

Posted: May 5th, 2019, 7:59 am
by Davka
Check out this perspective:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... s.html?m=1

The author posts on this forum under the name Alaris.

Re: Progression of Christ

Posted: May 5th, 2019, 8:00 am
by ParticleMan
sunfly wrote: May 4th, 2019, 5:28 pm We have been taught that the Father once lived as we do mortally and progressed to becoming our God the Father. Did Jesus also? Or was his mortal ministry on our earth his only mortal experience? If so, how did he become a God himself, if he didn’t go through the regular mortal progression? Only thing that I can think is he was different because he was the first spirit son of the father, but that doesn’t make sense either. Or because he was born of a mortal woman and spirit father?
By "spirit" father, I assume you meant resurrected, exalted, or Celestial, because that is the nature of the personage of the Father.

All of the details have not been expounded, but those with authority have touched upon these principles, and here's a sample:

"It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did" (TPJS 345).

"The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do we believe it? I you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. The Scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (TPJS 346).

"What did Jesus do? Why; I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds come rolling into existence. My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of his Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children" (TPJS 347).

"We begin with the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our spirits - who is he? Do you know anything about him? Can you find out who he is? Suppose we go to the scriptures and enquire who he is. . . . 'This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.' Well, how can we learn by reading the history of Adam and Eve to know the Lord? If you were to hear the footsteps of the Lord, would you know from the history of Adam and Eve that it was the Lord coming? They knew his voice and his footsteps for they had lived with him. And what I have upon this subject I now say; Adam had been with the Lord and had lived with him upon an earth like this and had been faithful and overcome, and had received his body and was resurrected and was well acquainted with the Lord and was one of his mess mates. He had eaten and drank with him and had lived with him from generation to generation and in many worlds, probably while many had come into and gone out of existence. And he helped to make this earth and brought the seeds with him that you see springing up spontaneously, and when he called, the elements came rolling together"
(Brigham Young, 4/25/1855).

"Every world has an Adam, and an Eve: named so, simply because the first man is always called Adam, and the first woman Eve; and the Oldest Son has always the privilege of being Ordained. Appointed, and Called to be the Heir of the Family, if he does not rebel against the Father; and he is the Savior of the family. Every world that has been created, has been created upon the same principle. They may vary in their varieties, yet the eternity is one eternal round. These are things that scarcely belong to the best of this congregation. There are items of doctrine, and principles, in the bosom of eternity that the best of the Latter-day Saints are unworthy to receive" (Brigham Young, 10/8/1854).

Re: Progression of Christ

Posted: May 5th, 2019, 11:23 am
by Thinker
The Airbender wrote: May 4th, 2019, 8:31 pm You might enjoy this:

https://www.academia.edu/4100559/EIGHT_ ... _Godliness_
Interesting! Kind of reminds me of some Taoist principles combined with Christianity. The veil, no veil and finally “no veil needed” is especially intriguing. I believe spiritual maturity - and ability to relate/love - are significantly based on ability to handle truths. Line upon line - even if we inch by in progress, it’s better than prideful denial which holds us back. When we are to follow Christ - I believe we also follow him - to some extent - into our own Gethsemanes in bringing to light that which is hidden - the feelings and other issues we bury as well as how we can take responsibility to improve conditions.

Christ led by example, in letting go of “old wine bottles” for good news... letting go of dogma that is not really godly, but may have served a purpose in the past. James Fowler has put together a series of faith stages...
Spoiler
Image
Jim Marion gave a more detailed explanation of spiritual stages, of which he borrowed from St. Teresa and John of the Cross.

I believe scriptures are meant to be likened to us within, spiritually.
I Cor. 2:16 - "we have the mind of Christ"
Phil. 2:5 - "have this mind in you which was also in Christ Jesus"
Matt 13:34 "...without a parable spake he not unto them"
  • Here's a possible interpretation of parts of Revelations 6... Some terms I learned from Putting on the Mind of Christ by Jim Marion ( - who I disagree with in some ways but see value in this theory of development)...

    1st seal, a crown is given - birth/life - Archaic & Magical Consciousness
    2nd seal, a sword is given - ability to discern good from evil - Mythic Consciousness
    3rd seal, balances are had - questioning myths - Rational Consciousness level
    4th seal - power was given - can see many perspectives - Vision-Logic Consciousness
    5th seal - Shown souls who were slain for the word of God - fears conquered for love - Psychic/Spirit Consciousness
    6th seal - earthquakes, sun black, stars fall - see our imperfections "bursts our egotistical bubble" - Dark night of the senses
    7th seal - silence, then "all hell breaks loose" with wars & plagues - Confronting "feelings buried alive"- Dark Night/Confronting Shadow Self
    Christ reigns - Spiritual union with God, Our Creators - Christ Consciousness
Personally, I don't think we just go up these stages like a ladder. I think, they are more interconnected. Still, I think Marion helped give a spiritual map for Christians & even explained how Jesus' life shows these steps we are to take spiritually... from birth to death & his resurrection.

Re: Progression of Christ

Posted: May 5th, 2019, 2:35 pm
by XEmilyX
sunfly wrote: May 4th, 2019, 5:28 pm I’m trying to become better acquainted with the Savior in my life. I have a long ways to go, but in my pondering I have had a few questions that I’m embarrassed to say I don’t know the answer.

We have been taught that the Father once lived as we do mortally and progressed to becoming our God the Father. Did Jesus also? Or was his mortal ministry on our earth his only mortal experience? If so, how did he become a God himself, if he didn’t go through the regular mortal progression? Only thing that I can think is he was different because he was the first spirit son of the father, but that doesn’t make sense either. Or because he was born of a mortal woman and spirit father? My brain hurts! Some things just are hard to comprehend. Perhaps someone here gets it, and can help me out. If so, my thanks!
The holy ghost doesnt have a body and is a God. It's possible to be a God without a body.

Re: Progression of Christ

Posted: May 5th, 2019, 5:53 pm
by The Airbender
I very much enjoyed your post, Thinker, about the stages of life. I am bouncing around between stage 4 and 5 in various aspects of my beliefs. I loved the statement that people in stage 3 see people in stage 4 as "backsliding" when they are really moving forward. So true.

Re: Progression of Christ

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 11:51 am
by Thinker
The Airbender wrote: May 5th, 2019, 5:53 pm I very much enjoyed your post, Thinker, about the stages of life. I am bouncing around between stage 4 and 5 in various aspects of my beliefs. I loved the statement that people in stage 3 see people in stage 4 as "backsliding" when they are really moving forward. So true.
Glad you enjoyed it. :) I agree about moving forward, and often find myself between those stages as well.

One of my pet peeves is being misunderstood and then judged harshly for it. And this has happened a lot, especially since I’ve shared some of what I’ve discovered - in hoping to help those I love. You know, “Every member a missionary” rule you live your entire life - doesn’t suddenly stop once you begin thinking outside the box. But I realized the need to let it go - not share anymore because it can backfire. If they ask, I’ll discuss, but only then. At the same time, I try to remember that each of us have unique strengths & weaknesses - so comparing doesn’t make sense.

Re: Progression of Christ

Posted: May 6th, 2019, 1:00 pm
by stillwater