LDS Freedom Forum

"The yoke of Church responsibility, the burden of Church leadership become opportunities rather than problems to him who wears the mantle of dedicated membership in the church of Jesus Christ.


Said the Lord: “Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” (Rev. 3:20.)

Jesus, speaking to the Jews in the temple, said: “My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

“If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” (John 7:16–17.)

This is the wonder of this work, that every man may know for himself. He is not dependent on the teacher or the preacher or the missionary, except as they might instruct and bear witness. As Job declared long ago: “… there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.” (Job 32:8.)

Each man may know for himself that it is true through the gift of the Holy Spirit, and with as certain an assurance as that the sun will rise in the morning. And knowing that it is true, he will be inclined to discipline himself as becomes one who has a knowledge of the meaning and purpose of life, of his great responsibility to his fellowmen, of his responsibility to his family, of his responsibility to God.

“Learn of me,” said the Lord, “and listen to my words; walk in the meekness of my Spirit, and you shall have peace in me.” (D&C 19:23.)

This is “the peace that passeth all understanding,” because it comes not of the mind, but of the Spirit, and “the things of God are understood by the Spirit of God.”




“When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, … whom say ye that I am?

“And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

“And I also say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Matt. 16:13–18.)

This rock of revelation is the source of knowledge concerning the things of God. It is the witness of the Holy Spirit that testifies of eternal truth, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against any man who seeks it, who accepts it, who cultivates it, and who lives by it.

Of these sacred things I offer my solemn testimony and invoke the blessings of this knowledge upon all earnest seekers after truth, in the name of the author of truth, even the Lord Jesus Christ."

Gordon B. Hinckley

What are you saying Eddie? State it clearly.

Durzan wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 11:25 am What are you saying Eddie? state it clearly.

I quoted a Prophet, what do you mean state it clearly? Are you singling me out because I don’t agree with you on immunizations? Did I offend you? Unless I broke a rule by posting an article by Pres. Hinckley, then read into it whatever you like.

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 3:04 pm

Durzan wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 11:25 am What are you saying Eddie? state it clearly.

I quoted a Prophet, what do you mean state it clearly? Are you singling me out because I don’t agree with you on immunizations? Did I offend you? Unless I broke a rule by posting an article by Pres. Hinckley, then read into it whatever you like.

?
Is the strength of the church the fact that as members of the church we can know the truth of these things by the Holy Spirit?

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 3:04 pm

Durzan wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 11:25 am What are you saying Eddie? state it clearly.

I quoted a Prophet, what do you mean state it clearly? Are you singling me out because I don’t agree with you on immunizations? Did I offend you? Unless I broke a rule by posting an article by Pres. Hinckley, then read into it whatever you like.

Context. I too was wondering what you were getting at. I still do.

‘The strength of the Church is in the testimonies of its members.’ That was affirmed during [our] conference, that that is so true.”—Karl J. Fields, President of the Gig Harbor Washington Stake.

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 3:04 pm

Durzan wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 11:25 am What are you saying Eddie? state it clearly.

I quoted a Prophet, what do you mean state it clearly? Are you singling me out because I don’t agree with you on immunizations? Did I offend you? Unless I broke a rule by posting an article by Pres. Hinckley, then read into it whatever you like.

Let me rephrase it. You just posted those quotes with little to no context for what you are using them for or why you are quoting them. I am asking you what you are trying to say, because the quotes themselves are not necessarily self explanatory as to whatever point you are trying to make. Without knowing that, there is very little conversation to be had.

Its just courteous to add more to a post than a big block of quotes. (Unless that is literally the point of the thread, in which case there isn't much to say.)

Durzan wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 3:17 pm

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 3:04 pm

Durzan wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 11:25 am What are you saying Eddie? state it clearly.

I quoted a Prophet, what do you mean state it clearly? Are you singling me out because I don’t agree with you on immunizations? Did I offend you? Unless I broke a rule by posting an article by Pres. Hinckley, then read into it whatever you like.

Let me rephrase it. You just posted those quotes with little to no context for what you are using them for or why you are quoting them. I am asking you what you are trying to say, because the quotes themselves are not necessarily self explanatory as to whatever point you are trying to make. Without knowing that, there is very little conversation to be had.

Its just courteous to add more to a post than a big block of quotes. (Unless that is literally the point of the thread, in which case there isn't much to say)

Gosh, I feel bad about being discourteous, especially with all the courtesy that is shown here from others.

The impression that I got reminded me of the Joseph Smith quote, "A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation."

Following a religion is supposed to be hard. It is supposed to require you to live a radically different lifestyle than that of mainstream society. The Church is strong insofar as it makes heavy demands of its members and the members rise to meet them.

But at the end of the day, lukewarm Mormonism has less saving power than the religions of the Amish, the Scientologists, the Nation of Islam, or any number of other religions whose doctrines are a mess but whose followers are willing to make more sacrifices than the average Mormon is willing to make.

The Church is only as strong as its members. And the members are only as strong as their sacrifices. And I often feel like if Jesus were speaking to us today, He would say like He did to the Laodiceans, "Would thou wert cold or hot!"

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 4:15 pm

Durzan wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 3:17 pm

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 3:04 pm

Durzan wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 11:25 am What are you saying Eddie? state it clearly.

I quoted a Prophet, what do you mean state it clearly? Are you singling me out because I don’t agree with you on immunizations? Did I offend you? Unless I broke a rule by posting an article by Pres. Hinckley, then read into it whatever you like.

Let me rephrase it. You just posted those quotes with little to no context for what you are using them for or why you are quoting them. I am asking you what you are trying to say, because the quotes themselves are not necessarily self explanatory as to whatever point you are trying to make. Without knowing that, there is very little conversation to be had.

Its just courteous to add more to a post than a big block of quotes. (Unless that is literally the point of the thread, in which case there isn't much to say)

Gosh, I feel bad about being discourteous, especially with all the courtesy that is shown here from others.

I apologize if I come across Snarky at times.

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 4:49 pm The impression that I got reminded me of the Joseph Smith quote, "A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation."

Following a religion is supposed to be hard. It is supposed to require you to live a radically different lifestyle than that of mainstream society. The Church is strong insofar as it makes heavy demands of its members and the members rise to meet them.

But at the end of the day, lukewarm Mormonism has less saving power than the religions of the Amish, the Scientologists, the Nation of Islam, or any number of other religions whose doctrines are a mess but whose followers are willing to make more sacrifices than the average Mormon is willing to make.

The Church is only as strong as its members. And the members are only as strong as their sacrifices. And I often feel like if Jesus were speaking to us today, He would say like He did to the Laodiceans, "Would thou wert cold or hot!"

Thanks, that’s what I got from it, that the true strength of the church is it’s members.

justme wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 4:49 pm

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 4:15 pm

Durzan wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 3:17 pm

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 3:04 pm

I quoted a Prophet, what do you mean state it clearly? Are you singling me out because I don’t agree with you on immunizations? Did I offend you? Unless I broke a rule by posting an article by Pres. Hinckley, then read into it whatever you like.

Let me rephrase it. You just posted those quotes with little to no context for what you are using them for or why you are quoting them. I am asking you what you are trying to say, because the quotes themselves are not necessarily self explanatory as to whatever point you are trying to make. Without knowing that, there is very little conversation to be had.

Its just courteous to add more to a post than a big block of quotes. (Unless that is literally the point of the thread, in which case there isn't much to say)

Gosh, I feel bad about being discourteous, especially with all the courtesy that is shown here from others.

I apologize if I come across Snarky at times.

I’ve been on the forum a long time, we can all get a little snarky at times, I apologize also.

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 5:05 pm

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 4:49 pm The impression that I got reminded me of the Joseph Smith quote, "A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation."

Following a religion is supposed to be hard. It is supposed to require you to live a radically different lifestyle than that of mainstream society. The Church is strong insofar as it makes heavy demands of its members and the members rise to meet them.

But at the end of the day, lukewarm Mormonism has less saving power than the religions of the Amish, the Scientologists, the Nation of Islam, or any number of other religions whose doctrines are a mess but whose followers are willing to make more sacrifices than the average Mormon is willing to make.

The Church is only as strong as its members. And the members are only as strong as their sacrifices. And I often feel like if Jesus were speaking to us today, He would say like He did to the Laodiceans, "Would thou wert cold or hot!"

Thanks, that’s what I got from it, that the true strength of the church is it’s members.

I believe the greatest strength of our church is the sense of community - how we help one another - and pitch in to make it run. A study found that of several factors (diet, exercise, social etc), social connections were most influential in longevity. A sense of community is valuable!

I also believe in sacrifice - but in the right spirit - in line with the greatest commandments, which include the challenge of loving others as (well) as ourselves... so both in moderation and harmony. Research found that excessive religious involvement is similar to no religious involvement in being unhealthy - moderate religious involvement is ideal. Pastors (like bishops) have higher rates of depression. It’s estimated up to 80% of mental illnesses are rooted in misunderstandings of religious doctrine.

Thinker wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 7:24 pm

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 5:05 pm

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 4:49 pm The impression that I got reminded me of the Joseph Smith quote, "A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation."

Following a religion is supposed to be hard. It is supposed to require you to live a radically different lifestyle than that of mainstream society. The Church is strong insofar as it makes heavy demands of its members and the members rise to meet them.

But at the end of the day, lukewarm Mormonism has less saving power than the religions of the Amish, the Scientologists, the Nation of Islam, or any number of other religions whose doctrines are a mess but whose followers are willing to make more sacrifices than the average Mormon is willing to make.

The Church is only as strong as its members. And the members are only as strong as their sacrifices. And I often feel like if Jesus were speaking to us today, He would say like He did to the Laodiceans, "Would thou wert cold or hot!"

Thanks, that’s what I got from it, that the true strength of the church is it’s members.

I believe the greatest strength of our church is the sense of community - how we help one another - and pitch in to make it run. A study found that of several factors (diet, exercise, social etc), social connections were most influential in longevity. A sense of community is valuable!

I also believe in sacrifice - but in the right spirit - in line with the greatest commandments, which include the challenge of loving others as (well) as ourselves... so both in moderation and harmony. Research found that excessive religious involvement is similar to no religious involvement in being unhealthy - moderate religious involvement is ideal. Pastors (like bishops) have higher rates of depression. It’s estimated up to 80% of mental illnesses are rooted in misunderstandings of religious doctrine.

Could you provide documentation? I’ve found several google sites that say the opposite.

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 11:38 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 7:24 pm

eddie wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 5:05 pm

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 4:49 pm The impression that I got reminded me of the Joseph Smith quote, "A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation."

Following a religion is supposed to be hard. It is supposed to require you to live a radically different lifestyle than that of mainstream society. The Church is strong insofar as it makes heavy demands of its members and the members rise to meet them.

But at the end of the day, lukewarm Mormonism has less saving power than the religions of the Amish, the Scientologists, the Nation of Islam, or any number of other religions whose doctrines are a mess but whose followers are willing to make more sacrifices than the average Mormon is willing to make.

The Church is only as strong as its members. And the members are only as strong as their sacrifices. And I often feel like if Jesus were speaking to us today, He would say like He did to the Laodiceans, "Would thou wert cold or hot!"

Thanks, that’s what I got from it, that the true strength of the church is it’s members.

I believe the greatest strength of our church is the sense of community - how we help one another - and pitch in to make it run. A study found that of several factors (diet, exercise, social etc), social connections were most influential in longevity. A sense of community is valuable!

I also believe in sacrifice - but in the right spirit - in line with the greatest commandments, which include the challenge of loving others as (well) as ourselves... so both in moderation and harmony. Research found that excessive religious involvement is similar to no religious involvement in being unhealthy - moderate religious involvement is ideal. Pastors (like bishops) have higher rates of depression. It’s estimated up to 80% of mental illnesses are rooted in misunderstandings of religious doctrine.

Could you provide documentation? I’ve found several google sites that say the opposite.

Yes, I can provide some:

Study: Pastors at Greater Risk of Depression, Anxiety
https://www.christianpost.com/news/stud ... xiety.html

The reference for “It’s estimated up to 80% of mental illnesses are rooted in misunderstandings of religious doctrine,” is found in a book by lds author Brent Top, called “Beyond Death’s Door.”
https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Deaths-Do ... 0884948951

I wasn’t able to find the reference to the 3rd one, which I read several years ago. Sorry about that.

I realize there is also evidence FOR spirituality and faith - but “all good things in moderation” is common sense, to most - except when it isn’t.

Thinker wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 7:24 pm
It’s estimated up to 80% of mental illnesses are rooted in misunderstandings of religious doctrine.

How does a researcher decide whether someone else is misunderstanding his or her own religion? It doesn't sound very objective to me.

I am on my phone but I have some reliable sources I will post later that say just the opposite.

I’ve carried some positions of responsibility that were somewhat stressful( I don’t want to whine too much)
Lol, and in hind sight, it was a very happy time in my life.

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑May 1st, 2019, 1:52 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 7:24 pm
It’s estimated up to 80% of mental illnesses are rooted in misunderstandings of religious doctrine.

How does a researcher decide whether someone else is misunderstanding his or her own religion? It doesn't sound very objective to me.

Good point. I wonder what research lds-author (Top) used to make that claim.

Let’s consider causes of mental illness, like depression. Having struggled with it, I can tell you it involves a lot of misinterpretations. I can also tell you that cognitive distortions (like polarized thinking - bipolar) contribute. And, our church leaders teach cognitive distortions...
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21159&start=30

Sweden is the least religious society on earth and also the loneliest. Being disconnected from others is not good for mental health, in fact it is better to be a smoker than someone without a social network. If you want something to back up the Swedish claim watch "The Swedish Theory of Love." Good documentary on how a government can totally transform a society in less than a generation.