LDS Freedom Forum

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 12:30 pm

passionflower wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 12:16 pmThe problem with Europe and low conversion rates is that the Europeans have it TOO GOOD and they give themselves all the credit for it, too.

Agreed. The same applies to the U.S., as well, I believe. In fact, that's the most often cited reason the missionaries serving in our area cite as to the lack of people to teach - "People are just comfortable; they are happy with their families, homes, jobs, lives, and they don't want to risk upsetting those things for an 'unknown'." We've had neighbors and co-workers say almost that identical thing to us when inviting them to learn about the gospel, etc. I also believe the comfort level of most will change drastically in the next decade or so - we shall see - the Lord's timing is not our own. What affect that might have on their willingness to listen to the gospel message, who knows - I can see some going one way, and others going the opposite. Fascinating times we live in.

Saw this today-
https://www.ksl.com/article/46534313/po ... t-20-years

I have my reasons why I believe it's the Democrats and not so much the Republicans who are leaving religion.

shadow wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 12:39 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 12:30 pm

passionflower wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 12:16 pmThe problem with Europe and low conversion rates is that the Europeans have it TOO GOOD and they give themselves all the credit for it, too.

Agreed. The same applies to the U.S., as well, I believe. In fact, that's the most often cited reason the missionaries serving in our area cite as to the lack of people to teach - "People are just comfortable; they are happy with their families, homes, jobs, lives, and they don't want to risk upsetting those things for an 'unknown'." We've had neighbors and co-workers say almost that identical thing to us when inviting them to learn about the gospel, etc. I also believe the comfort level of most will change drastically in the next decade or so - we shall see - the Lord's timing is not our own. What affect that might have on their willingness to listen to the gospel message, who knows - I can see some going one way, and others going the opposite. Fascinating times we live in.

Saw this today-
https://www.ksl.com/article/46534313/po ... t-20-years

I have my reasons why I believe it's the Democrats and not so much the Republicans who are leaving religion.

I agree that is another big factor, as I've seen it firsthand with some ward members, extended family, and friends. They discover that oil and water really do not mix, and when they're not successful at forcing it to, they leave.

If I were put in charge of that responsibility, I'd say, "Well it's about time."

Seriously though, I'd decline and walk away, I wouldn't want anything to do with it. I have a hard enough time sticking to my budget

If I were in charge, EVERYBODY would get a modest stipend.

marc wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 4:20 pm If I were in charge, EVERYBODY would get a modest stipend.

Filthy Communist

Stahura wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 4:26 pm

marc wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 4:20 pm If I were in charge, EVERYBODY would get a modest stipend.

Filthy Communist

In all seriousness how does everybody getting a modest stipend really differ from a correct understanding of the united order.

(And yes I am fully aware of the distinction between united order and socialism etc.)

justme wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 4:53 pm In all seriousness how does everybody getting a modest stipend really differ from a correct understanding of the united order.

(And yes I am fully aware of the distinction between united order and socialism etc.)

This has been discussed in a few threads before.
The General consensus seems to be one way is voluntary and the other is not

This, below, is part of an email I got this morning from a good friend of mine who recently moved to Las Vegas with her family. I replied back right away and asked if she got the figure right - she assured me that yes, the figure is $7,000 for the Christmas dinner/party alone.

"Our ward here is nice. Loving the people. Some are a little beyond crazy wealthy. But we keep them humble, haha. I have been put in charge of the Ward parties. My budget for the Christmas party is $7,000. I tried to not swallow my tongue. In _____[the ward we live in], my budget was $400 when doing the party. Very different. I was "taught" from a lady what is acceptable and what is not. Lol! Hilarious stuff! I was told we need to use "fine linens", not table covers. I feel like we moved to a new planet."

This is shameful to me.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:05 pm This, below, is part of an email I got this morning from a good friend of mine who recently moved to Las Vegas with her family. I replied back right away and asked if she got the figure right - she assured me that yes, the figure is $7,000 for the Christmas dinner/party alone.

"Our ward here is nice. Loving the people. Some are a little beyond crazy wealthy. But we keep them humble, haha. I have been put in charge of the Ward parties. My budget for the Christmas party is $7,000. I tried to not swallow my tongue. In _____[the ward we live in], my budget was $400 when doing the party. Very different. I was "taught" from a lady what is acceptable and what is not. Lol! Hilarious stuff! I was told we need to use "fine linens", not table covers. I feel like we moved to a new planet."

This is shameful to me.

Years ago, when I was in charge of ward parties and dinners, we had a budget of.......ZERO $$$$. Everything was donated by the ward members. This included turkeys and ham, not just sides and desserts. I brought my own Christmas decorations, and people signed up to bring centerpieces. Obviously they didn't match. I never knew some wards actually got money to spend on parties and ward dinners.

Temporal needs and spiritual needs. When the Lord was teaching the saints in Joseph's Smith's day about living the Law of Consecration, He told them that it's not possible to be equal in spiritual things if we are not equal in temporal things.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:05 pm This, below, is part of an email I got this morning from a good friend of mine who recently moved to Las Vegas with her family. I replied back right away and asked if she got the figure right - she assured me that yes, the figure is $7,000 for the Christmas dinner/party alone.

"Our ward here is nice. Loving the people. Some are a little beyond crazy wealthy. But we keep them humble, haha. I have been put in charge of the Ward parties. My budget for the Christmas party is $7,000. I tried to not swallow my tongue. In _____[the ward we live in], my budget was $400 when doing the party. Very different. I was "taught" from a lady what is acceptable and what is not. Lol! Hilarious stuff! I was told we need to use "fine linens", not table covers. I feel like we moved to a new planet."

This is shameful to me.

Agreed that is one thing I would change as well. Every ward gets similar funds for similar ward parties activities etc. All wards should function the same no matter where they are at in the ward.

When I read her email, and especially the words "fine linen", I couldn't help but think of these scriptures -

Alma 4:6 And it came to pass in the eighth year of the reign of the judges, that the people of the church began to wax proud, because of their exceeding riches, and their fine silks, and their fine-twined linen, and because of their many flocks and herds, and their gold and their silver, and all manner of precious things, which they had obtained by their industry; and in all these things were they lifted up in the pride of their eyes, for they began to wear very costly apparel.

1 Nephi 13:7 And I also saw gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots.

8 And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.

Threads like this astound me. "Freedom" as it is applied in these forums seems to be preferred for all...except the Church.

It ain't your money. But it is your faith. And it is on full display.

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:23 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:05 pm This, below, is part of an email I got this morning from a good friend of mine who recently moved to Las Vegas with her family. I replied back right away and asked if she got the figure right - she assured me that yes, the figure is $7,000 for the Christmas dinner/party alone.

"Our ward here is nice. Loving the people. Some are a little beyond crazy wealthy. But we keep them humble, haha. I have been put in charge of the Ward parties. My budget for the Christmas party is $7,000. I tried to not swallow my tongue. In _____[the ward we live in], my budget was $400 when doing the party. Very different. I was "taught" from a lady what is acceptable and what is not. Lol! Hilarious stuff! I was told we need to use "fine linens", not table covers. I feel like we moved to a new planet."

This is shameful to me.

Agreed that is one thing I would change as well. Every ward gets similar funds for similar ward parties activities etc. All wards should function the same no matter where they are at in the ward.

This is staggering. $7,000 for a party? Do they do youth conference trips to North Shore, Hawaii, too?

thestock wrote: ↑May 1st, 2019, 11:27 am

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:23 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:05 pm This, below, is part of an email I got this morning from a good friend of mine who recently moved to Las Vegas with her family. I replied back right away and asked if she got the figure right - she assured me that yes, the figure is $7,000 for the Christmas dinner/party alone.

"Our ward here is nice. Loving the people. Some are a little beyond crazy wealthy. But we keep them humble, haha. I have been put in charge of the Ward parties. My budget for the Christmas party is $7,000. I tried to not swallow my tongue. In _____[the ward we live in], my budget was $400 when doing the party. Very different. I was "taught" from a lady what is acceptable and what is not. Lol! Hilarious stuff! I was told we need to use "fine linens", not table covers. I feel like we moved to a new planet."

This is shameful to me.

Agreed that is one thing I would change as well. Every ward gets similar funds for similar ward parties activities etc. All wards should function the same no matter where they are at in the ward.

This is staggering. $7,000 for a party? Do they do youth conference trips to North Shore, Hawaii, too?

The problem I have with this is they aren't making anything off of that $7000 it will be for an hour or two of fun and that's it. Think of all the good that could have come out of that $7000. They better be feeding all of the homeless in town. Or better yet they better be charging a fee to get in so they can make the money back plus some to give away. This is the kind of stuff that get's at my craw.

setyourselffree wrote: ↑May 1st, 2019, 11:32 am

thestock wrote: ↑May 1st, 2019, 11:27 am

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:23 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:05 pm This, below, is part of an email I got this morning from a good friend of mine who recently moved to Las Vegas with her family. I replied back right away and asked if she got the figure right - she assured me that yes, the figure is $7,000 for the Christmas dinner/party alone.

"Our ward here is nice. Loving the people. Some are a little beyond crazy wealthy. But we keep them humble, haha. I have been put in charge of the Ward parties. My budget for the Christmas party is $7,000. I tried to not swallow my tongue. In _____[the ward we live in], my budget was $400 when doing the party. Very different. I was "taught" from a lady what is acceptable and what is not. Lol! Hilarious stuff! I was told we need to use "fine linens", not table covers. I feel like we moved to a new planet."

This is shameful to me.

Agreed that is one thing I would change as well. Every ward gets similar funds for similar ward parties activities etc. All wards should function the same no matter where they are at in the ward.

This is staggering. $7,000 for a party? Do they do youth conference trips to North Shore, Hawaii, too?

The problem I have with this is they aren't making anything off of that $7000 it will be for an hour or two of fun and that's it. Think of all the good that could have come out of that $7000. They better be feeding all of the homeless in town. Or better yet they better be charging a fee to get in so they can make the money back plus some to give away. This is the kind of stuff that get's at my craw.

Yeah I hear you. Its not fair that affluent wards get huge ward budgets and struggling wards get scraps. That's more like the version of Capitalism that we have running the country than it is the Lord's law of Consecration and United Order.

thestock wrote: ↑May 1st, 2019, 12:09 pm

setyourselffree wrote: ↑May 1st, 2019, 11:32 am

thestock wrote: ↑May 1st, 2019, 11:27 am

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:23 pm

Agreed that is one thing I would change as well. Every ward gets similar funds for similar ward parties activities etc. All wards should function the same no matter where they are at in the ward.

This is staggering. $7,000 for a party? Do they do youth conference trips to North Shore, Hawaii, too?

The problem I have with this is they aren't making anything off of that $7000 it will be for an hour or two of fun and that's it. Think of all the good that could have come out of that $7000. They better be feeding all of the homeless in town. Or better yet they better be charging a fee to get in so they can make the money back plus some to give away. This is the kind of stuff that get's at my craw.

Yeah I hear you. Its not fair that affluent wards get huge ward budgets and struggling wards get scraps. That's more like the version of Capitalism that we have running the country than it is the Lord's law of Consecration and United Order.

I'm OK with Capitalism. This will all get worked out.

thestock wrote: ↑May 1st, 2019, 11:27 am

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:23 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:05 pm This, below, is part of an email I got this morning from a good friend of mine who recently moved to Las Vegas with her family. I replied back right away and asked if she got the figure right - she assured me that yes, the figure is $7,000 for the Christmas dinner/party alone.

"Our ward here is nice. Loving the people. Some are a little beyond crazy wealthy. But we keep them humble, haha. I have been put in charge of the Ward parties. My budget for the Christmas party is $7,000. I tried to not swallow my tongue. In _____[the ward we live in], my budget was $400 when doing the party. Very different. I was "taught" from a lady what is acceptable and what is not. Lol! Hilarious stuff! I was told we need to use "fine linens", not table covers. I feel like we moved to a new planet."

This is shameful to me.

Agreed that is one thing I would change as well. Every ward gets similar funds for similar ward parties activities etc. All wards should function the same no matter where they are at in the ward.

This is staggering. $7,000 for a party? Do they do youth conference trips to North Shore, Hawaii, too?

I will ask.

shadow wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 12:39 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 12:30 pm

passionflower wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 12:16 pmThe problem with Europe and low conversion rates is that the Europeans have it TOO GOOD and they give themselves all the credit for it, too.

Agreed. The same applies to the U.S., as well, I believe. In fact, that's the most often cited reason the missionaries serving in our area cite as to the lack of people to teach - "People are just comfortable; they are happy with their families, homes, jobs, lives, and they don't want to risk upsetting those things for an 'unknown'." We've had neighbors and co-workers say almost that identical thing to us when inviting them to learn about the gospel, etc. I also believe the comfort level of most will change drastically in the next decade or so - we shall see - the Lord's timing is not our own. What affect that might have on their willingness to listen to the gospel message, who knows - I can see some going one way, and others going the opposite. Fascinating times we live in.

Saw this today-
https://www.ksl.com/article/46534313/po ... t-20-years

I have my reasons why I believe it's the Democrats and not so much the Republicans who are leaving religion.

Please go on. And those reasons are.............?

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 6:05 pm This, below, is part of an email I got this morning from a good friend of mine who recently moved to Las Vegas with her family. I replied back right away and asked if she got the figure right - she assured me that yes, the figure is $7,000 for the Christmas dinner/party alone.

"Our ward here is nice. Loving the people. Some are a little beyond crazy wealthy. But we keep them humble, haha. I have been put in charge of the Ward parties. My budget for the Christmas party is $7,000. I tried to not swallow my tongue. In _____[the ward we live in], my budget was $400 when doing the party. Very different. I was "taught" from a lady what is acceptable and what is not. Lol! Hilarious stuff! I was told we need to use "fine linens", not table covers. I feel like we moved to a new planet."

This is shameful to me.

Many years ago I had a Bishop who took charge of the Xmas dinner. He wanted the dinner to be a reminder of the poverty some people endured during the Xmas season as compared to their own "plenty". So that year, upon entering the cultural hall, you saw no decorations, no paper lined tables, or dinnerware of any kind out except for paper cups and water. There was no music playing, no Xmas tree ( in the cultural hall ) no Santa and no program, either. Instead we were told to just sit down at one of the long tables. When time came, paper sacks that turned out to be full of saltine crackers were passed down the tables and we had to take one. Then we said prayer over it.

That was it. And that "moral lesson" went over like a lead balloon. Inactives who never came to church except for the parties like this stormed out of the cultural hall in real anger. Ward members were put out at the Bishop all year. For myself, at the time I just burst out laughing and I ate my crackers and drank my water with much mirth! But the more time that passes, the more I appreciate what the Bishop was trying to do. I could not tell you what we ate, drank or otherwise did at so many other ward Xmas dinners, but I remember THAT one!