LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 10:41 am**

Just curious if anyone else caught this.

Bryce Romney from Vocal Point, who is gay, is one of my favorite Vocal Point voices. Awesome singer.

Watch this video:
https://youtu.be/K5I51C-U8Og

He's the first singer. Note when they start doing their own dances (1:14), how he dances. It struck me as a strange dance at first, but when I learned he was gay it just brought a completely different connotation to my mind for some reason. I'll spare you the details of the imagery. Sometimes it is my curse that I can visualize things so clearly.

Watch this video:

https://youtu.be/yVA3iYJ_H5Y

"Ain't it a fine life, carrying the banner through it all. A mighty fine life, carrying the banner tough and tall. Every morning, we goes where we wishes, we as free as fishes, sure beats washing dishes. What a fine life, carrying the banner home-free all! " (3:10)

These just brought to my mind a realization that he was either trying to subtly give expression to his thoughts and feelings here, or that he had help with directors/producers in giving expression.

Has anyone here worked with Vocal Point and know whether it was common knowledge on his team that he was gay, and whether they intentionally tried to give him some "gay moments" that were more inside-knowledge things that nobody would realize unless they knew he was gay?

I'm really trying to understand how BYU fits in the church today, if at all.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 10:52 am**

I do not know your age or background, but I think it would suprise many of us older members to realize just how accepting the rising generations of members are of LGBTQ+. So it is not as surprising that the movement is more noticeable at BYU due to the age group of students.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 10:54 am**

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 10:41 amI'm really trying to understand how BYU fits in the church today, if at all.

On the contrary, BYU fits very nicely into today's LDS Church. Is BYU not just following the Church's lead on this subject?

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 11:04 am**

A family member of mine, in her 50's, works at BYU. She told me, 8 years ago (2011) that several professors in her ward were very much in favor of gay marriage. At the time, I was dumbstruck. She chided me, and told me to get with the times.

A little research will pull up more events and meetings where BYU has held hands with the Gay Agenda.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 12:14 pm**

I love Vocal Point. I think they are very talented. (group changes constantly because the guys eventually graduate) I didn't see anything wrong with the performances. They are certainly not trained dancers but just look like they are having a lot of fun. Seize the day is from the very popular Newies Musical. Gosh I really don't go looking into if they personally are trying to push an agenda or capitalizing on anything. I just see them as a bunch of very talented young men sharing their great voices.

There are many gay singers out there. One of my favorites is Elton John. I look at his talent for what it is. I don't agree with his lifestyle choices but still enjoy his musical talent. (I know we are talking about Church owned BYU, and Elton has no connection) The point is, I won't judge Bryce for what he chooses to do with his life. I'll just enjoy his great singing voice.

2 cents

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 6:17 pm**

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 10:54 am
i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 10:41 amI'm really trying to understand how BYU fits in the church today, if at all.
On the contrary, BYU fits very nicely into today's LDS Church. Is BYU not just following the Church's lead on this subject?

In some ways, yes. In other ways, no.

For example, I don't think the church intended for the strong implication that God creates gay people to be gay, and that gay marriage is a forthcoming change in the church.
The church has, however, made a strong effort to support gay people in a way that they don't feel outcast.

It's a hard line to walk, and I don't think we're walking it very well right now.

As an aside, there are and have been for decades many areas where BYU doesn't align with the church. If we see something happen at BYU, that shouldn't make us think it has the approval of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. I know of at least 2 (probably more) instances when apostles went to BYU specifically to chastise the faculty and/or staff for the things they do that plant seeds of doubt and confusion in the minds of youth. Of course, the employees gave the bird in response, as is evidenced by the fact that today BYU is a refuge for socialism, homosexuality, anti-Christ science, pseudo-feminism, etc.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 6:25 pm**

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:17 pm
EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 10:54 am
i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 10:41 amI'm really trying to understand how BYU fits in the church today, if at all.
On the contrary, BYU fits very nicely into today's LDS Church. Is BYU not just following the Church's lead on this subject?
In some ways, yes. In other ways, no.

For example, I don't think the church intended for the strong implication that God creates gay people to be gay, and that gay marriage is a forthcoming change in the church.
The church has, however, made a strong effort to support gay people in a way that they don't feel outcast.

It's a hard line to walk, and I don't think we're walking it very well right now.

As an aside, there are and have been for decades many areas where BYU doesn't align with the church. If we see something happen at BYU, that shouldn't make us think it has the approval of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. I know of at least 2 (probably more) instances when apostles went to BYU specifically to chastise the faculty and/or staff for the things they do that plant seeds of doubt and confusion in the minds of youth. Of course, the employees gave the bird in response, as is evidenced by the fact that today BYU is a refuge for socialism, homosexuality, anti-Christ science, pseudo-feminism, etc.

Welp, that's a pretty sad indictment (of whom, I'll leave to your own imaginings).

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 6:28 pm**

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 10:41 am Just curious if anyone else caught this.

Bryce Romney from Vocal Point, who is gay, is one of my favorite Vocal Point voices. Awesome singer.

Watch this video:
https://youtu.be/K5I51C-U8Og

He's the first singer. Note when they start doing their own dances (1:14), how he dances. It struck me as a strange dance at first, but when I learned he was gay it just brought a completely different connotation to my mind for some reason. I'll spare you the details of the imagery. Sometimes it is my curse that I can visualize things so clearly.

Watch this video:

https://youtu.be/yVA3iYJ_H5Y

"Ain't it a fine life, carrying the banner through it all. A mighty fine life, carrying the banner tough and tall. Every morning, we goes where we wishes, we as free as fishes, sure beats washing dishes. What a fine life, carrying the banner home-free all! " (3:10)

These just brought to my mind a realization that he was either trying to subtly give expression to his thoughts and feelings here, or that he had help with directors/producers in giving expression.

Has anyone here worked with Vocal Point and know whether it was common knowledge on his team that he was gay, and whether they intentionally tried to give him some "gay moments" that were more inside-knowledge things that nobody would realize unless they knew he was gay?

I'm really trying to understand how BYU fits in the church today, if at all.

I know him in real life. It depends on when the video was made. If I still had my facebook, I could tell you exactly when he came out, but it was sometime after 2013 - may have been 2014 or 15 I can remember. I just know he struggled with quite a few things, but was a really good singer. I think there were quite a few people that knew beforehand/ supported it. At least that is what it appeared like on the Book. So I imagine a year or so before the group knew. Furthermore, when he gave up and declared himself as such, he was already in a relationship and got married not long after if I remember correctly. Also, its kind of an open secret that those who have same sex attraction are very common in the Choir groups at BYU/ the underground group is quite large.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 6:31 pm**

I know him in real life. It depends on when the video was made. If I still had my facebook, I could tell you exactly when he came out, but it was sometime after 2013 - may have been 2014 or 15 I can remember. I just know he struggled with quite a few things, but was a really good singer. I think there were quite a few people that knew beforehand/ supported it. At least that is what it appeared like on the Book. So I imagine a year or so before the group knew. Furthermore, when he gave up and declared himself as such, he was already in a relationship and got married not long after if I remember correctly. Also, its kind of an open secret that those who have same sex attraction are very common in the Choir groups at BYU/ the underground group is quite large.

---

You must be talking about his "public" come-out moment. He came out at age 13 to his bishop and parents, if I remember correctly, so it's something he had been struggling with since childhood.
And I know how common it is to tell a secret to one or two trusted confidants. I just wonder if there are those in Vocal Point who helped him use that as sort of a subtle soap box for what he was dealing with, or whether he did that all on his own.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 6:44 pm**

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:31 pm I know him in real life. It depends on when the video was made. If I still had my facebook, I could tell you exactly when he came out, but it was sometime after 2013 - may have been 2014 or 15 I can remember. I just know he struggled with quite a few things, but was a really good singer. I think there were quite a few people that knew beforehand/ supported it. At least that is what it appeared like on the Book. So I imagine a year or so before the group knew. Furthermore, when he gave up and declared himself as such, he was already in a relationship and got married not long after if I remember correctly. Also, its kind of an open secret that those who have same sex attraction are very common in the Choir groups at BYU/ the underground group is quite large.

---

You must be talking about his "public" come-out moment. He came out at age 13 to his bishop and parents, if I remember correctly, so it's something he had been struggling with since childhood.
And I know how common it is to tell a secret to one or two trusted confidants. I just wonder if there are those in Vocal Point who helped him use that as sort of a subtle soap box for what he was dealing with, or whether he did that all on his own.

I think there were a few who did and likely helped, like I said ithat stuff is an open secret at BYU if you are around the right circles.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 6:47 pm**

John Tavner wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:28 pmAlso, its kind of an open secret that those who have same sex attraction are very common in the Choir groups at BYU/ the underground group is quite large.

Several of our friends have children in these groups at BYU - various choirs, dance, drama, etc. It is rampant.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 6:58 pm**

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:47 pm
John Tavner wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:28 pmAlso, its kind of an open secret that those who have same sex attraction are very common in the Choir groups at BYU/ the underground group is quite large.
Several of our friends have children in these groups at BYU - various choirs, dance, drama, etc. It is rampant.

I understand it has been the same for Mormon Tabernacle Choir over the years.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 7:10 pm**

justme wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:58 pm
EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:47 pm
John Tavner wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:28 pmAlso, its kind of an open secret that those who have same sex attraction are very common in the Choir groups at BYU/ the underground group is quite large.
Several of our friends have children in these groups at BYU - various choirs, dance, drama, etc. It is rampant.
I understand it has been the same for Mormon Tabernacle Choir over the years.

Interesting. Don't Tabernacle Choir members have to be temple married? Or do they just have to have current temple recommends? I know the latter is true, as they are considered "missionaries".

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 7:12 pm**

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 7:10 pm
justme wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:58 pm
EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:47 pm
John Tavner wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:28 pmAlso, its kind of an open secret that those who have same sex attraction are very common in the Choir groups at BYU/ the underground group is quite large.
Several of our friends have children in these groups at BYU - various choirs, dance, drama, etc. It is rampant.
I understand it has been the same for Mormon Tabernacle Choir over the years.
Interesting. Don't Tabernacle Choir members have to be temple married? Or do they just have to have current temple recommends? I know the latter is true, as they are considered "missionaries".

being same sex attracted and worthy temple recommend holder is not mutually exclusive.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 7:17 pm**

justme wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 7:12 pm
EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 7:10 pm
justme wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:58 pm
EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:47 pm

Several of our friends have children in these groups at BYU - various choirs, dance, drama, etc. It is rampant.
I understand it has been the same for Mormon Tabernacle Choir over the years.
Interesting. Don't Tabernacle Choir members have to be temple married? Or do they just have to have current temple recommends? I know the latter is true, as they are considered "missionaries".
being same sex attracted and worthy temple recommend holder is not mutually exclusive.

I know, but if it's as common for SSA people to be in the Tabernacle Choir as in the various performing groups at BYU, that's a LOT of people.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 7:28 pm**

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 7:17 pm
justme wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 7:12 pm
EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 7:10 pm
justme wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 6:58 pm
I understand it has been the same for Mormon Tabernacle Choir over the years.
Interesting. Don't Tabernacle Choir members have to be temple married? Or do they just have to have current temple recommends? I know the latter is true, as they are considered "missionaries".
being same sex attracted and worthy temple recommend holder is not mutually exclusive.
I know, but if it's as common for SSA people to be in the Tabernacle Choir as in the various performing groups at BYU, that's a LOT of people.

Yes, I heard from one who was associated with the choir that they were over represented on the choir.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 7:31 pm**

I also do not think that being same sex attracted and effective missionaries for the gospel, as in the choir, are mutually exclusive.

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 8:44 pm**

kittycat51 wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:14 pm I love Vocal Point. I think they are very talented. (group changes constantly because the guys eventually graduate) I didn't see anything wrong with the performances. They are certainly not trained dancers but just look like they are having a lot of fun. Seize the day is from the very popular Newies Musical. Gosh I really don't go looking into if they personally are trying to push an agenda or capitalizing on anything. I just see them as a bunch of very talented young men sharing their great voices.

There are many gay singers out there. One of my favorites is Elton John. I look at his talent for what it is. I don't agree with his lifestyle choices but still enjoy his musical talent. (I know we are talking about Church owned BYU, and Elton has no connection) The point is, I won't judge Bryce for what he chooses to do with his life. I'll just enjoy his great singing voice.

2 cents

I didn't "go looking" either. I listen to Vocal Point frequently and know their videos well. When I learned he was gay, I recalled the two things I mentioned above.
This has nothing to do with judging Bryce. It has to do with a question: was it a subtle "gay moment" on a Vocal Point music video meant to throw a nod to the gay audience and show support for the agenda? If so, was it of his own doing, or was is supported by Vocal Point personnel? That's a very relevant question when it comes to how I support Vocal Point. I don't support Imagine Dragons precisely because I don't want anything I do to contribute money to their efforts to legitimize and normalize fornication and gay sex (not to mention their music is terrible). It isn't about trying to say, "Man, that Dan Reynolds is evil and should go to hell." I'm not his judge. Rather, it's about, "Man, I don't want to support with my money organizations that use their fame and fortune to fight against revealed truth." I've used this approach to cancel several accounts over the years, and I'm currently looking for a way off of Facebook and YouTube, with Amazon to follow.
I'd just really like to know what motives the producers and directors of Vocal Point have. If they're behind the scenes using their "fame" to further a cause that stands in direct opposition to the church, I don't want to support the organization. I can live without Vocal Point in my life. I don't know if I can live with the thought that I am financially supporting an organization that is trying to destroy the church (if that ends up being true, which it may not in Vocal Point's case...but just as an example).

Posted: **April 29th, 2019, 8:58 pm**

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 8:44 pm
kittycat51 wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:14 pm I love Vocal Point. I think they are very talented. (group changes constantly because the guys eventually graduate) I didn't see anything wrong with the performances. They are certainly not trained dancers but just look like they are having a lot of fun. Seize the day is from the very popular Newies Musical. Gosh I really don't go looking into if they personally are trying to push an agenda or capitalizing on anything. I just see them as a bunch of very talented young men sharing their great voices.

There are many gay singers out there. One of my favorites is Elton John. I look at his talent for what it is. I don't agree with his lifestyle choices but still enjoy his musical talent. (I know we are talking about Church owned BYU, and Elton has no connection) The point is, I won't judge Bryce for what he chooses to do with his life. I'll just enjoy his great singing voice.

2 cents

I didn't "go looking" either. I listen to Vocal Point frequently and know their videos well. When I learned he was gay, I recalled the two things I mentioned above.
This has nothing to do with judging Bryce. It has to do with a question: was it a subtle "gay moment" on a Vocal Point music video meant to throw a nod to the gay audience and show support for the agenda? If so, was it of his own doing, or was is supported by Vocal Point personnel? That's a very relevant question when it comes to how I support Vocal Point. I don't support Imagine Dragons precisely because I don't want anything I do to contribute money to their efforts to legitimize and normalize fornication and gay sex (not to mention their music is terrible). It isn't about trying to say, "Man, that Dan Reynolds is evil and should go to hell." I'm not his judge. Rather, it's about, "Man, I don't want to support with my money organizations that use their fame and fortune to fight against revealed truth." I've used this approach to cancel several accounts over the years, and I'm currently looking for a way off of Facebook and YouTube, with Amazon to follow.
I'd just really like to know what motives the producers and directors of Vocal Point have. If they're behind the scenes using their "fame" to further a cause that stands in direct opposition to the church, I don't want to support the organization. I can live without Vocal Point in my life. I don't know if I can live with the thought that I am financially supporting an organization that is trying to destroy the church (if that ends up being true, which it may not in Vocal Point's case...but just as an example).

Love Imagine Dragons and I buy their music. I was pleased to see the church financially support his advocacy concert a few years back.

Posted: **April 30th, 2019, 2:08 pm**

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 8:44 pmI don't support Imagine Dragons precisely because I don't want anything I do to contribute money to their efforts to legitimize and normalize fornication and gay sex...
Rather, it's about, "Man, I don't want to support with my money organizations that use their fame and fortune to fight against revealed truth."....
I don't know if I can live with the thought that I am financially supporting an organization that is trying to destroy the church (if that ends up being true, which it may not in Vocal Point's case...but just as an example).

Your tithing dollars go to help support BYU. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=51472

Posted: **April 30th, 2019, 2:46 pm**

justme wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 8:58 pm Love Imagine Dragons and I buy their music. I was pleased to see the church financially support his advocacy concert a few years back.

I used to like them until I went to a concert last year and noticed Dan's right hand with a large black X on it. He performed shirtless the entire time while waving a rainbow flag around on stage and spoke of how was in a box (by implication, his religion) and screamed to the audience if they are going to let anyone put them in a box? To which they all shouted NO! He then talked more about leaving his religion and threw his hands up saying, "I'M FREE!!!" Which brought to mind Cain saying the same thing after he slew Abel. I picked up on his other messages. He took existing songs and sang them in a particular manner as to draw the audience into alternative meanings he was giving them. He is pretty swallowed up in the natural man and the ideologies of the world and uses his platform to promote them.

Honestly, it was like he was channeling Korihor. Remember that he also taught a lot of nice sounding things, remember Alma 30:17:

"...every man fared in this life according to the management of the creature; therefore every man prospered according to his genius, and that every man conquered according to his strength; and whatsoever a man did was no crime."

He saw the priests as binding people down and keeping them in bondage so that they were not free to live their lives. I kid you not, it was the same message and the crowd just ate it up.

Sad to say I'm not longer a fan and he ruined most of his songs for me at that concert.

Posted: **April 30th, 2019, 3:52 pm**

5tev3 wrote: ↑April 30th, 2019, 2:46 pm
justme wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 8:58 pm Love Imagine Dragons and I buy their music. I was pleased to see the church financially support his advocacy concert a few years back.
I used to like them until I went to a concert last year and noticed Dan's right hand with a large black X on it. He performed shirtless the entire time while waving a rainbow flag around on stage and spoke of how was in a box (by implication, his religion) and screamed to the audience if they are going to let anyone put them in a box? To which they all shouted NO! He then talked more about leaving his religion and threw his hands up saying, "I'M FREE!!!" Which brought to mind Cain saying the same thing after he slew Abel. I picked up on his other messages. He took existing songs and sang them in a particular manner as to draw the audience into alternative meanings he was giving them. He is pretty swallowed up in the natural man and the ideologies of the world and uses his platform to promote them.

Honestly, it was like he was channeling Korihor. Remember that he also taught a lot of nice sounding things, remember Alma 30:17:

"...every man fared in this life according to the management of the creature; therefore every man prospered according to his genius, and that every man conquered according to his strength; and whatsoever a man did was no crime."

He saw the priests as binding people down and keeping them in bondage so that they were not free to live their lives. I kid you not, it was the same message and the crowd just ate it up.

Sad to say I'm not longer a fan and he ruined most of his songs for me at that concert.

Yeah, the first time I heard Dan Reynolds speak about chastity issues, I immediately knew without a doubt that I was listening to anti-Christ doctrine.

I am aware that the church is donating for a specific good purpose, and not to support the anti-Christ aspects of their agenda, but it still hurts. It feels like we're giving money to the people who are planning our assassination...to help support their efforts. Still, God always gives us chances and chances and chances. I truly don't think this lasts much longer. When the judge sits on the judgment seat (Oaks), I don't think we'll be very popular with these people...and they'll hate us to death. He says things that offend them to the core. And he's usually very plain about it all.

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Did BYU Vocal Point try to help further the gay agenda?

Did BYU Vocal Point try to help further the gay agenda?

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Re: Did BYU Vocal Point try to help further the gay agenda?

Re: Did BYU Vocal Point try to help further the gay agenda?