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BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 10:07 am
by 4Joshua8
https://www.foxnews.com/us/byu-valedict ... ion-speech
"A Brigham Young University student quoted the Book of Mormon before he came out as a 'gay son of God' during his commencement speech."
Here's the part that boils my blood:
"I have felt another triumph; that of coming to terms, not with who I thought I should be, but who the Lord has made me to be," the BYU graduate said. "As such, I stand before the Lord, my family, my graduating class today to say that I am proud to be a gay son of God."
It took me all of 3 seconds to take "who the Lord has made me to be" to its logical end, which at best is that either most of what we consider sinful isn't, or at worst is that there is no such thing as sin at all.
The news said this speech was approved beforehand.
I'm all for freedom of speech, but I would expect the church to come forward with an assertion of its doctrine after something like this that is on the first page of at least two major national news outlets (FoxNews and CNN).
Where is this "God made me gay" sentiment coming from?
I already knew that BYU is in big trouble. BYU was in big trouble all the way back in the 1990s. I was a teenager living in Provo then, and I can remember terrible things going on there. Oddly, much of what happens at BYU now is in direct opposition to the stated intent of its very founding. I keep hoping the church divests itself of that institution.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 10:15 am
by kirtland r.m.
This is only a true symptom of how wicked the world has become. The reality is this person is happily proclaiming that by their own actions they have blocked Heavenly Father’s plan of happiness and progress for themself.That dam will stay in place until they repent, or end up suffering for their own sin, then missing out on eternal blessings anyway.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 10:21 am
by investigator
i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 10:07 am
https://www.foxnews.com/us/byu-valedict ... ion-speech
"A Brigham Young University student quoted the Book of Mormon before he came out as a 'gay son of God' during his commencement speech."
Here's the part that boils my blood:
"I have felt another triumph; that of coming to terms, not with who I thought I should be, but who the Lord has made me to be," the BYU graduate said. "As such, I stand before the Lord, my family, my graduating class today to say that I am proud to be a gay son of God."
It took me all of 3 seconds to take "who the Lord has made me to be" to its logical end, which at best is that either most of what we consider sinful isn't, or at worst is that there is no such thing as sin at all.
The news said this speech was approved beforehand.
I'm all for freedom of speech, but I would expect the church to come forward with an assertion of its doctrine after something like this that is on the first page of at least two major national news outlets (FoxNews and CNN).
Where is this "God made me gay" sentiment coming from?
I already knew that BYU is in big trouble. BYU was in big trouble all the way back in the 1990s. I was a teenager living in Provo then, and I can remember terrible things going on there. Oddly, much of what happens at BYU now is in direct opposition to the stated intent of its very founding. I keep hoping the church divests itself of that institution.
Do you have a link to the news report that states the “speech was approved beforehand”?
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 10:22 am
by 4Joshua8
kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 10:15 am
This is only a true symptom of how wicked the world has become.
True.
I'm not someone who wants gay people to sit there all depressed feeling terrible about themselves. This isn't about bashing.
This is about fundamental truths being undermined by a university owned by the very church that teaches the truths being undermined. This has been going on for years. It is my understanding that there are teachers at BYU teaching their students that gay relationships aren't sinful, and that gay marriage in the church is forthcoming.
Now, I'm not someone who believes for a second that just because something happens at BYU, it must therefore have the approval of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. I also know that apostles have, on several occasions, severely chastised BYU employees for abandoning the teachings of the prophets in favor of worldly knowledge.
Still, it stings when it comes from BYU, mostly because people don't take anything we say seriously anymore. We look like we're talking out of every noise-making orifice at the same time, and not in harmony.
The ONLY way what he said makes sense is if God told him, in his "Enos" moment, that God allowed him to be gay because God gives us weakness to humble us and help us be teachable. But, if he had said that, he would be saying that being gay is weakness, and that's not politically correct today.
But, he didn't say that. What he said has a completely different connotation, one that fits the popular worldly approach of today.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 10:22 am
by EmmaLee
Never mind. No point in posting.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 10:23 am
by 4Joshua8
investigator wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 10:21 am
Do you have a link to the news report that states the “speech was approved beforehand”?
It's in the FoxNews link I provided already. It says, "BYU officials approved his speech ahead of time and, according to the school’s website, BYU’s Honor Code doesn’t ban gay students, but prohibits 'homosexual behavior,' including all forms of physical intimacy that 'give expression to homosexual feelings.;"
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 10:35 am
by Gage
So does this guy only have same sex attraction? Because that is ok right? Or can they date and hold hands now?
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 10:58 am
by Lizzy60
It's okay, according to the BYU Honor Code, to be attracted to the same sex. However, no dating, holding hands, or any other romantic expression by two gay people is allowed.
What I personally find deplorable, and what the other posters here have said, is that he is PROUD of his homosexual nature, and that he claims, after praying like Enos, that he is exactly like God made him, a proud, gay son of God. That's not just heresy, it's blasphemy.
Unfortunately there are more and more active LDS members who are teaching the gay youths in their fields of influence, that God is totally fine with gay marriage (and sex) and that the only reason the church as a whole has not come to this knowledge is because on the "long-ingrained bigotry" of the GA's.
A Melchizedek priesthood holder, with two adult gay sons, complimented another man on his 25-yr gay marriage, and said he was sure it was "ordained by God." These teachings can easily be found on the lovey-dovey pro-gay LDS websites, to be read by any young person realizing they are same-sex attracted.
Satan is laughing out loud, with his chains in his hands.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 11:12 am
by Primary Outcast
The church might not see it this way, but everyone reading the story sees it this way:
The members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe and teach that God is ok with homosexuality and homosexuals should be proud of being gay.
This was an approved speech, at the church's university, with no correction given , the audience screams in approval.
This is a sad day for me being a BYU graduate. I will never think of my university the same as long as this goes uncorrected. The honor code scandal is almost just as sad.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 11:41 am
by Arandur
I’m honestly not that concerned about the “proud to be gay” thing myself. I can’t say I love it, but as bad as it sounds from my end, from theirs (if they’re generally faithful members) it’s probably more a matter of getting past shame and fear of cultural judgment, and feeling free to express what they have been feeling and dealing with, proud of having the strength and courage to stand in the open and take whatever comes, face their challenge head-on, etc. Still not an ideal attitude exactly, but it doesn’t have to read “proud of my desire to commit serious sin”, though I’m sure many people are. Of course, I’m reasonably confident that being openly “proud to be gay” at minimum leads others to be proud of their desire to sin and even proud of their sin, and so warrants gentle correction at the right time and place. But it’s at least understandable given their point of view.
What gives me more pause is the claim that God created him gay. That’s simply not doctrinally supportable, and even if we grant that science establishes homosexuality as being present from birth for many people, science can say little to nothing about how God created anything.
God created our spirits. Fallen parents created our bodies in a fallen world with the tools God gave them. This is why our bodies are so flawed in so many ways; as amazing as God’s design of the human body is, He didn’t personally create the final product in ordinary cases. Hence, fallen bodies subject to all the temptations of the flesh. If this is right, then the implication of the claim that God created him gay has to be that homosexuality (or even sexuality in general) is a trait first and fundamentally of the immortal spirit that God created, not a trait first and fundamentally of the body. I don’t buy that, and I think it’s dangerous to our understanding of the doctrine of the plan of happiness and the nature of exaltation and godhood.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 12:06 pm
by Lizzy60
God created our spirits. He created the spirit of every single person ever born on this earth, along with the third part who chose to follow Lucifer and not even come to earth.
We really have no idea what our pre-earth life was like, but we know we had agency. We know that we made choices, some righteous, some evil. If this were not true, then why did one person choose to come to earth, and another person choose to follow Lucifer?
There was only one perfect person and that was Christ. He had reached perfection, and came to Earth without the fallen nature the rest of us have. Yes! All of us have characteristics that are part of our fallen nature, and that are unrighteous, or that impede our progress toward exaltation if we don't overcome. The natural man is an enemy of God.
It's currently politically incorrect to say that our pre-Earth choices determined the path we are on in this probation, but how can that not be true? We aren't bothered if someone tells the youth that they were blessed to be born to an LDS family, or in a free country. We aren't bothered if the Prophet says that the youth have been reserved for this time leading up to the second coming.
Did God just pull names out of a hat, or did he know us before we were born? If He knew us, then He knew our righteous desires, as well as our unrighteous ones. Perhaps we are each in a place where we can magnify our righteous desires, and overcome the unrighteous ones. But God didn't force any righteous or unrighteous desires on us. We had agency, hence the War in Heaven where Christ and Satan battled for our souls.
It's a huge mistake to say God made me gay, and God loves me, therefore God approves of my gay marriage and gay sex. Insert any other sin for the word gay, and one can see how nonsensical it is. That's why the pro-LGBT LDS allies are telling the youth that gay sexual and romantic actions are NOT sinful, but righteous, and that their gay marriage may actually be ordained by God.
I totally believe that if a SSA youth prays and asks God if he or she is loved by Him, the answer will be a huge YES!! But I don't believe the leap they take that God then approves of their seeking a gay marriage. I had a friend who was gay. I received a witness that God's love for her was incredible. She knew this too, but never for a moment did she believe that she was exempt from sin just because she felt God's love.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 12:13 pm
by nvr
We'll be reconsidering sending our kids to BYU if this trajectory continues there.
Here's an imaginary scenario: A man has a strange tendency to be attracted only to women who are not his wife. If he follows these attractions, of course, he'll be committing serious sin. He wishes it weren't like this, but this is just how he is, he concludes. Imagine this tendency becomes acceptable in society, and others give their heartfelt encouragement and support to anyone who concedes that they experience this attraction. It gets to the point that a valedictorian, in his commencement speech, talks about his attraction only to women other than his wife in a prominent part of his speech, "I stand before the Lord, my family, my graduating class today to say that I am proud to be a swinger son of God" followed by sincere applause from the audience.
What has happened in people's minds where such a ridiculous scenario like this could be considered worthy of applause if the tendency is replaced with same-sex attraction?
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 12:22 pm
by justme
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:06 pm
God created our spirits. He created the spirit of every single person ever born on this earth, along with the third part who chose to follow Lucifer and not even come to earth.
We really have no idea what our pre-earth life was like, but we know we had agency. We know that we made choices, some righteous, some evil. If this were not true, then why did one person choose to come to earth, and another person choose to follow Lucifer?
There was only one perfect person and that was Christ. He had reached perfection, and came to Earth without the fallen nature the rest of us have. Yes! All of us have characteristics that are part of our fallen nature, and that are unrighteous, or that impede our progress toward exaltation if we don't overcome. The natural man is an enemy of God.
It's currently politically incorrect to say that our pre-Earth choices determined the path we are on in this probation, but how can that not be true? We aren't bothered if someone tells the youth that they were blessed to be born to an LDS family, or in a free country. We aren't bothered if the Prophet says that the youth have been reserved for this time leading up to the second coming.
Did God just pull names out of a hat, or did he know us before we were born? If He knew us, then He knew our righteous desires, as well as our unrighteous ones. Perhaps we are each in a place where we can magnify our righteous desires, and overcome the unrighteous ones. But God didn't force any righteous or unrighteous desires on us. We had agency, hence the War in Heaven where Christ and Satan battled for our souls.
It's a huge mistake to say God made me gay, and God loves me, therefore God approves of my gay marriage and gay sex. Insert any other sin for the word gay, and one can see how nonsensical it is. That's why the pro-LGBT LDS allies are telling the youth that gay sexual and romantic actions are NOT sinful, but righteous, and that their gay marriage may actually be ordained by God.
I totally believe that if a SSA youth prays and asks God if he or she is loved by Him, the answer will be a huge YES!! But I don't believe the leap they take that God then approves of their seeking a gay marriage. I had a friend who was gay. I received a witness that God's love for her was incredible. She knew this too, but never for a moment did she believe that she was exempt from sin just because she felt God's love.
Though I often disagree with your opinions, I find this particular post to be very well thought out and presented. Thank you.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 12:22 pm
by Cheetos
Im extremely troubled by this. How did this speech ever get approved? Im embarrased to say the least! And whats up with the audience approval on this point but yet quiet in other parts of his speech? Disturbing!!!
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 12:24 pm
by setyourselffree
What is wrong with coming out as happy?
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 12:51 pm
by shadow
I think it's unfortunate that sex has to be brought into everything these days. Whenever I've attended school graduations I never heard anyone say they were proud to be straight and that's how God made them. What does sexual orientation have to do with graduating from a school?? If the speech was approved by BYU, someone needs to lose their job.
As some of my posts on this site throughout the 10+ yrs I've been here show- I'm not a fan of BYU. Never have been.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 2:09 pm
by Lizzy60
More details: His interview with the Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... 62af42cbf0
Spoiler -- he was inspired by what Pete Buttigeig said at the rally where Mayor Pete attacked Mike Pence's Christianity.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 2:17 pm
by captainfearnot
shadow wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:51 pm
I think it's unfortunate that sex has to be brought into everything these days. Whenever I've attended school graduations I never heard anyone say they were proud to be straight and that's how God made them. What does sexual orientation have to do with graduating from a school??
The irony is that at most universities across the country, sexual orientation is such a non-issue that it wouldn't warrant a mention.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 3:18 pm
by EmmaLee
“That’s the thing I wish
the Mike Pences of the world would understand: That
if you have a problem with who I am, your quarrel is not with me,” Buttigieg said.
“Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator.”
BYU grad - "“My generation, and even more so the generation after me,
we’re changing the way we talk about our identity and who we are,” Easton said. “It’s okay to be different, or not fit the norm. When I started at BYU, I didn’t think that. I thought that I had to be what everyone before me was. I do feel from my own experience that
this is changing, or maybe I’m changing.
I hope that our country, my faith, my community will follow in a similar fashion.”
***
What the scholar of religious studies, who writes on gender and Mormonism,
found most significant about the commencement speech was the applause that met the declaration — a sign that church culture has shifted more rapidly than official policy, he said.
The applause was what most surprised Easton, too.
“I was preparing for awkward silence,” he said. “
So when people started clapping, it was a little overwhelming. To have a group that I had for so long thought would hate me or ostracize me actually celebrate and accept me, it was awesome."
***
In the days since, he has received
an outpouring of support, including a missive from Kristin Chenoweth, the actress and singer, on Twitter.
He has also received some criticism —
from people who say he went too far, as well as
those who believe he didn’t go far enough.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 3:20 pm
by ori
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:06 pm
God created our spirits. He created the spirit of every single person ever born on this earth, along with the third part who chose to follow Lucifer and not even come to earth.
We really have no idea what our pre-earth life was like, but we know we had agency. We know that we made choices, some righteous, some evil. If this were not true, then why did one person choose to come to earth, and another person choose to follow Lucifer?
There was only one perfect person and that was Christ. He had reached perfection, and came to Earth without the fallen nature the rest of us have. Yes! All of us have characteristics that are part of our fallen nature, and that are unrighteous, or that impede our progress toward exaltation if we don't overcome. The natural man is an enemy of God.
It's currently politically incorrect to say that our pre-Earth choices determined the path we are on in this probation, but how can that not be true? We aren't bothered if someone tells the youth that they were blessed to be born to an LDS family, or in a free country. We aren't bothered if the Prophet says that the youth have been reserved for this time leading up to the second coming.
Did God just pull names out of a hat, or did he know us before we were born? If He knew us, then He knew our righteous desires, as well as our unrighteous ones. Perhaps we are each in a place where we can magnify our righteous desires, and overcome the unrighteous ones. But God didn't force any righteous or unrighteous desires on us. We had agency, hence the War in Heaven where Christ and Satan battled for our souls.
It's a huge mistake to say God made me gay, and God loves me, therefore God approves of my gay marriage and gay sex. Insert any other sin for the word gay, and one can see how nonsensical it is. That's why the pro-LGBT LDS allies are telling the youth that gay sexual and romantic actions are NOT sinful, but righteous, and that their gay marriage may actually be ordained by God.
I totally believe that if a SSA youth prays and asks God if he or she is loved by Him, the answer will be a huge YES!! But I don't believe the leap they take that God then approves of their seeking a gay marriage. I had a friend who was gay. I received a witness that God's love for her was incredible. She knew this too, but never for a moment did she believe that she was exempt from sin just because she felt God's love.
I also liked your statement, but I'm not sure how to reconcile this passage from Ether 12:
26 And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;
27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness.
I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.
28 Behold, I will show unto the Gentiles their weakness, and I will show unto them that faith, hope and charity bringeth unto me—the fountain of all righteousness.
-------------------------------
So, does a
weakness for homosexuality count as a kind of weakness that can be given by God? Do you understand my confusion? And, how does your view fit in with this passage of scripture?
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 3:25 pm
by EmmaLee
Cheetos wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:22 pm
Im extremely troubled by this. How did this speech ever get approved? Im embarrased to say the least! And whats up with the audience approval on this point but yet quiet in other parts of his speech? Disturbing!!!
Why are you extremely troubled by this? Why are you embarrassed? Why are you surprised the audience cheered at his "coming out" announcement?
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 3:41 pm
by Lizzy60
ori wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 3:20 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:06 pm
God created our spirits. He created the spirit of every single person ever born on this earth, along with the third part who chose to follow Lucifer and not even come to earth.
We really have no idea what our pre-earth life was like, but we know we had agency. We know that we made choices, some righteous, some evil. If this were not true, then why did one person choose to come to earth, and another person choose to follow Lucifer?
There was only one perfect person and that was Christ. He had reached perfection, and came to Earth without the fallen nature the rest of us have. Yes! All of us have characteristics that are part of our fallen nature, and that are unrighteous, or that impede our progress toward exaltation if we don't overcome. The natural man is an enemy of God.
It's currently politically incorrect to say that our pre-Earth choices determined the path we are on in this probation, but how can that not be true? We aren't bothered if someone tells the youth that they were blessed to be born to an LDS family, or in a free country. We aren't bothered if the Prophet says that the youth have been reserved for this time leading up to the second coming.
Did God just pull names out of a hat, or did he know us before we were born? If He knew us, then He knew our righteous desires, as well as our unrighteous ones. Perhaps we are each in a place where we can magnify our righteous desires, and overcome the unrighteous ones. But God didn't force any righteous or unrighteous desires on us. We had agency, hence the War in Heaven where Christ and Satan battled for our souls.
It's a huge mistake to say God made me gay, and God loves me, therefore God approves of my gay marriage and gay sex. Insert any other sin for the word gay, and one can see how nonsensical it is. That's why the pro-LGBT LDS allies are telling the youth that gay sexual and romantic actions are NOT sinful, but righteous, and that their gay marriage may actually be ordained by God.
I totally believe that if a SSA youth prays and asks God if he or she is loved by Him, the answer will be a huge YES!! But I don't believe the leap they take that God then approves of their seeking a gay marriage. I had a friend who was gay. I received a witness that God's love for her was incredible. She knew this too, but never for a moment did she believe that she was exempt from sin just because she felt God's love.
I also liked your statement, but I'm not sure how to reconcile this passage from Ether 12:
26 And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;
27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness.
I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.
28 Behold, I will show unto the Gentiles their weakness, and I will show unto them that faith, hope and charity bringeth unto me—the fountain of all righteousness.
-------------------------------
So, does a
weakness for homosexuality count as a kind of weakness that can be given by God? Do you understand my confusion? And, how does your view fit in with this passage of scripture?
I interpret this as "I give unto men the agency to make negative choices both in the pre-earth life, and during their mortality, so that they will have the opportunity to learn from me that I can make them strong." God gives us agency, we choose imperfect and weak paths, He is there to show us how to repent, become strong, and learn that He is the fountain of all righteousness.
Sometimes our weaknesses are physical, sometimes emotional, sometimes spiritual. We will all have challenges in each of these areas. But if we give in, and/or give up, we are not participating in His grace. We are rejecting His most precious gift.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 4:17 pm
by justme
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 3:41 pm
ori wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 3:20 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:06 pm
God created our spirits. He created the spirit of every single person ever born on this earth, along with the third part who chose to follow Lucifer and not even come to earth.
We really have no idea what our pre-earth life was like, but we know we had agency. We know that we made choices, some righteous, some evil. If this were not true, then why did one person choose to come to earth, and another person choose to follow Lucifer?
There was only one perfect person and that was Christ. He had reached perfection, and came to Earth without the fallen nature the rest of us have. Yes! All of us have characteristics that are part of our fallen nature, and that are unrighteous, or that impede our progress toward exaltation if we don't overcome. The natural man is an enemy of God.
It's currently politically incorrect to say that our pre-Earth choices determined the path we are on in this probation, but how can that not be true? We aren't bothered if someone tells the youth that they were blessed to be born to an LDS family, or in a free country. We aren't bothered if the Prophet says that the youth have been reserved for this time leading up to the second coming.
Did God just pull names out of a hat, or did he know us before we were born? If He knew us, then He knew our righteous desires, as well as our unrighteous ones. Perhaps we are each in a place where we can magnify our righteous desires, and overcome the unrighteous ones. But God didn't force any righteous or unrighteous desires on us. We had agency, hence the War in Heaven where Christ and Satan battled for our souls.
It's a huge mistake to say God made me gay, and God loves me, therefore God approves of my gay marriage and gay sex. Insert any other sin for the word gay, and one can see how nonsensical it is. That's why the pro-LGBT LDS allies are telling the youth that gay sexual and romantic actions are NOT sinful, but righteous, and that their gay marriage may actually be ordained by God.
I totally believe that if a SSA youth prays and asks God if he or she is loved by Him, the answer will be a huge YES!! But I don't believe the leap they take that God then approves of their seeking a gay marriage. I had a friend who was gay. I received a witness that God's love for her was incredible. She knew this too, but never for a moment did she believe that she was exempt from sin just because she felt God's love.
I also liked your statement, but I'm not sure how to reconcile this passage from Ether 12:
26 And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;
27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness.
I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.
28 Behold, I will show unto the Gentiles their weakness, and I will show unto them that faith, hope and charity bringeth unto me—the fountain of all righteousness.
-------------------------------
So, does a
weakness for homosexuality count as a kind of weakness that can be given by God? Do you understand my confusion? And, how does your view fit in with this passage of scripture?
I interpret this as "I give unto men the agency to make negative choices both in the pre-earth life, and during their mortality, so that they will have the opportunity to learn from me that I can make them strong." God gives us agency, we choose imperfect and weak paths, He is there to show us how to repent, become strong, and learn that He is the fountain of all righteousness.
Sometimes our weaknesses are physical, sometimes emotional, sometimes spiritual. We will all have challenges in each of these areas. But if we give in, and/or give up, we are not participating in His grace. We are rejecting His most precious gift.
So do I interpret your belief as being that we can be born that way but not created that way? That is an interesting compromise that I am willing to entertain.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 4:24 pm
by Cheetos
EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 3:25 pm
Cheetos wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:22 pm
Im extremely troubled by this. How did this speech ever get approved? Im embarrased to say the least! And whats up with the audience approval on this point but yet quiet in other parts of his speech? Disturbing!!!
Why are you extremely troubled by this? Why are you embarrassed? Why are you surprised the audience cheered at his "coming out" announcement?
My having to answer is exactly my extreme trouble. Really? I'm troubled because the last time I checked homosexuality is an abomination and to basically get the nod of approval from the Dean and the audience is a slap in the face to the members of this church.
Re: BYU Valedictorian comes out during grad speech
Posted: April 29th, 2019, 4:30 pm
by justme
Cheetos wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 4:24 pm
EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 3:25 pm
Cheetos wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:22 pm
Im extremely troubled by this. How did this speech ever get approved? Im embarrased to say the least! And whats up with the audience approval on this point but yet quiet in other parts of his speech? Disturbing!!!
Why are you extremely troubled by this? Why are you embarrassed? Why are you surprised the audience cheered at his "coming out" announcement?
My having to answer is exactly my extreme trouble. Really? I'm troubled because the last time I checked homosexuality is an abomination and to basically get the nod of approval from the Dean and the audience is a slap in the face to the members of this church.
To fully understand your argument and use of language, what else would you list as "abominations"?