LDS Freedom Forum

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:29 am

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:23 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 5:09 pm And we can always count on the Church-owned Deseret News and fellow homosexuals to share in the joy.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... peech.html

Ellen gives $10,000 to BYU grad who came out during graduation speech
By Tad Walch Published: May 6, 2019 11:04 am

National media attention overwhelms BYU valedictorian who came out during convocation speech
PROVO — Ellen DeGeneres gave $10,000 to BYU political science valedictorian Matt Easton during a taped interview that was scheduled to air on her show Monday.

The appearance was another example of the broad national media attention garnered by Easton after he spoke during the April 26 convocation ceremony for BYU's College of Family, Home, and Social Sciences in the Marriott Center and said, "I stand before my family, friends and graduating class today to say that I am proud to be a gay son of God."

BYU admits openly gay students but its honor code proscribes acting on same-sex attraction.

Easton, who is from Cottonwood Heights, Utah, told his family, some faculty and friends that he was gay while a student, but he spoke to Ellen about his decision to publicly share the information during his speech after he was selected from among his college's valedictorians to deliver a speech that was approved by the college dean.

Easton also spoke about navigating his sexuality and his faith as a member of BYU's sponsoring institution, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He said he hoped speaking publicly will help other lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender students feel comfortable being open about their lives.

Ellen surprised Easton with the cash gift, which she said was to help him get settled as he works this summer and makes plans to apply for graduate school. The cash was provided by Shutterfly.

From the article,

...he spoke to Ellen about his decision to publicly share the information during his speech after he was selected from among his college's valedictorians to deliver a speech that was approved by the college dean.

Well there you have it! He was handpicked from a group of qualified valedictorians, AND, his speech was approved by the dean!

There can be ZERO DOUBT that the Q of the 12 Apostles approved as well. There is ZERO chance that there was one or more rogue BYU administrators who acted independently from the apostles. ZERO chance. This is the flagship academic institution of the Church. Presidents of Church schools become apostles!

This article, along with apparently OTHER glowing articles on this homosexual IN CHURCH OPERATED or HEAVILY INFLUENCED media, prove that his speaking was 100% orchestrated.

And the question is, WHY?

Why does Pres Nelson and the Q of the 12 want to promote homosexuality and transgenderism?

How do the mainstream Mormons answer this question?

"ZERO DOUBT"? Based on what? Based on the fact that the church owns the school? Nothing that happened proves involvement by the FP and QT. It does prove involvement by the dean's office, however.

Why do people assume the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve have time to micromanage the little details of everything that goes on?
IF the FP and QT were involved at all, my guess it was through general guidance to BYU and not this specific speech, meaning that they want the school to do more to help LGBT students learn how to participate in church and society (while living the law of chastity) without feeling the need to kill themselves. It's not their fault that people interpret that to mean teaching false doctrine in a public forum at a school owned by the church.

As I've said over and over, just because an organization is owned by the church doesn't mean the FP and QT dictate everything to those organizations.

President Nelson and the rest have never promoted homosexuality and transgenderism. Quite the opposite is true.

My guess is that President Nelson and the apostles saw some good and some bad in this speech. They'll probably accentuate the positive and then address the bad indirectly. Just my guess.

Note that it is WELL KNOWN that BYU has wolves employed there. This isn't some little secret. Who doesn't know that by now? There are employees of BYU (faculty and staff) and students who are trying to undermine the law of chastity. It shouldn't surprise us when we see potential evidence of that.

And the Q of the 12 has zero to do with all the positive articles the transgender person is getting in Church-owned media?

If you have doubt, that doubt will eventually get removed.

The whole world is going/ has gone transgender. It's being rolled out at breakneck speed, compared to how long it took to roll out the homosexual agenda starting about 40 years ago. Homosexuality is absolutely mainstream. Transgenderism is almost mainstream and it's been just a matter of months (less than 12 months I'd say) since the propaganda has hit fire hydrant proportions! If you really think the Q of the 12 were blindsided by this dean, then please continue with head in sand. I just read last week where a transgender "woman" won 9 out of 10 events at a women's world-class weightlifting competition. The real women who had their world records broken by the penis-wielding "woman" were outraged. And the "woman" commented how well "she" was treated by the organizers. The event organizers rolled out the red carpet for "her."

I am glad you know there're wolves at BYU. Back in the 1970's, Elder Benson estimated the number to be in the thousands. That's THOUSANDS of wolves (communists, etc.). The leftists have all but taken over the institution. And you think the Q of the 12 don't know about that? In 40-50 years, you can bet there's been a TOTAL takeover. But no, the Q of the 12 know nothing! Completely ignorant and absolved of any complicity!

The left (run by Satan of course) mean business folks. Wolf infiltrators are already in the highest places in the Church. Bank on it. Proof? The biggest proof is complete lack of resistance to the onslaught of collectivism. Where are the ETB's of the Church who dare to speak out? ZERO! ZILCH! NADA. Nary a one.

If such a man were to exist as a leader even on a local level, even down to a EQ president, he'd be reprimanded quicker than you could say "None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen", and get promptly released and blackballed as a speaker.

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:19 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:29 am

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:23 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑May 7th, 2019, 5:09 pm And we can always count on the Church-owned Deseret News and fellow homosexuals to share in the joy.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... peech.html

Ellen gives $10,000 to BYU grad who came out during graduation speech
By Tad Walch Published: May 6, 2019 11:04 am

National media attention overwhelms BYU valedictorian who came out during convocation speech
PROVO — Ellen DeGeneres gave $10,000 to BYU political science valedictorian Matt Easton during a taped interview that was scheduled to air on her show Monday.

The appearance was another example of the broad national media attention garnered by Easton after he spoke during the April 26 convocation ceremony for BYU's College of Family, Home, and Social Sciences in the Marriott Center and said, "I stand before my family, friends and graduating class today to say that I am proud to be a gay son of God."

BYU admits openly gay students but its honor code proscribes acting on same-sex attraction.

Easton, who is from Cottonwood Heights, Utah, told his family, some faculty and friends that he was gay while a student, but he spoke to Ellen about his decision to publicly share the information during his speech after he was selected from among his college's valedictorians to deliver a speech that was approved by the college dean.

Easton also spoke about navigating his sexuality and his faith as a member of BYU's sponsoring institution, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He said he hoped speaking publicly will help other lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender students feel comfortable being open about their lives.

Ellen surprised Easton with the cash gift, which she said was to help him get settled as he works this summer and makes plans to apply for graduate school. The cash was provided by Shutterfly.

From the article,

...he spoke to Ellen about his decision to publicly share the information during his speech after he was selected from among his college's valedictorians to deliver a speech that was approved by the college dean.

Well there you have it! He was handpicked from a group of qualified valedictorians, AND, his speech was approved by the dean!

There can be ZERO DOUBT that the Q of the 12 Apostles approved as well. There is ZERO chance that there was one or more rogue BYU administrators who acted independently from the apostles. ZERO chance. This is the flagship academic institution of the Church. Presidents of Church schools become apostles!

This article, along with apparently OTHER glowing articles on this homosexual IN CHURCH OPERATED or HEAVILY INFLUENCED media, prove that his speaking was 100% orchestrated.

And the question is, WHY?

Why does Pres Nelson and the Q of the 12 want to promote homosexuality and transgenderism?

How do the mainstream Mormons answer this question?

"ZERO DOUBT"? Based on what? Based on the fact that the church owns the school? Nothing that happened proves involvement by the FP and QT. It does prove involvement by the dean's office, however.

Why do people assume the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve have time to micromanage the little details of everything that goes on?
IF the FP and QT were involved at all, my guess it was through general guidance to BYU and not this specific speech, meaning that they want the school to do more to help LGBT students learn how to participate in church and society (while living the law of chastity) without feeling the need to kill themselves. It's not their fault that people interpret that to mean teaching false doctrine in a public forum at a school owned by the church.

As I've said over and over, just because an organization is owned by the church doesn't mean the FP and QT dictate everything to those organizations.

President Nelson and the rest have never promoted homosexuality and transgenderism. Quite the opposite is true.

My guess is that President Nelson and the apostles saw some good and some bad in this speech. They'll probably accentuate the positive and then address the bad indirectly. Just my guess.

Note that it is WELL KNOWN that BYU has wolves employed there. This isn't some little secret. Who doesn't know that by now? There are employees of BYU (faculty and staff) and students who are trying to undermine the law of chastity. It shouldn't surprise us when we see potential evidence of that.

And the Q of the 12 has zero to do with all the positive articles the transgender person is getting in Church-owned media?

If you have doubt, that doubt will eventually get removed.

The whole world is going/ has gone transgender. It's being rolled out at breakneck speed, compared to how long it took to roll out the homosexual agenda starting about 40 years ago. Homosexuality is absolutely mainstream. Transgenderism is almost mainstream and it's been just a matter of months (less than 12 months I'd say) since the propaganda has hit fire hydrant proportions! If you really think the Q of the 12 were blindsided by this dean, then please continue with head in sand. I just read last week where a transgender "woman" won 9 out of 10 events at a women's world-class weightlifting competition. The real women who had their world records broken by the penis-wielding "woman" were outraged. And the "woman" commented how well "she" was treated by the organizers. The event organizers rolled out the red carpet for "her."

I am glad you know there're wolves at BYU. Back in the 1970's, Elder Benson estimated the number to be in the thousands. That's THOUSANDS of wolves (communists, etc.). The leftists have all but taken over the institution. And you think the Q of the 12 don't know about that? In 40-50 years, you can bet there's been a TOTAL takeover. But no, the Q of the 12 know nothing! Completely ignorant and absolved of any complicity!

The left (run by Satan of course) mean business folks. Wolf infiltrators are already in the highest places in the Church. Bank on it. Proof? The biggest proof is complete lack of resistance to the onslaught of collectivism. Where are the ETB's of the Church who dare to speak out? ZERO! ZILCH! NADA. Nary a one.

If such a man were to exist as a leader even on a local level, even down to a EQ president, he'd be reprimanded quicker than you could say "None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen", and get promptly released and blackballed as a speaker.

Question: Who was the President at BYU when ETB was so worried about the "wolves" you are talking about? Hint: He is now in the first presidency himself.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:34 pm

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:19 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:29 am

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 9:23 am


From the article,



Well there you have it! He was handpicked from a group of qualified valedictorians, AND, his speech was approved by the dean!

There can be ZERO DOUBT that the Q of the 12 Apostles approved as well. There is ZERO chance that there was one or more rogue BYU administrators who acted independently from the apostles. ZERO chance. This is the flagship academic institution of the Church. Presidents of Church schools become apostles!

This article, along with apparently OTHER glowing articles on this homosexual IN CHURCH OPERATED or HEAVILY INFLUENCED media, prove that his speaking was 100% orchestrated.

And the question is, WHY?

Why does Pres Nelson and the Q of the 12 want to promote homosexuality and transgenderism?

How do the mainstream Mormons answer this question?

"ZERO DOUBT"? Based on what? Based on the fact that the church owns the school? Nothing that happened proves involvement by the FP and QT. It does prove involvement by the dean's office, however.

Why do people assume the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve have time to micromanage the little details of everything that goes on?
IF the FP and QT were involved at all, my guess it was through general guidance to BYU and not this specific speech, meaning that they want the school to do more to help LGBT students learn how to participate in church and society (while living the law of chastity) without feeling the need to kill themselves. It's not their fault that people interpret that to mean teaching false doctrine in a public forum at a school owned by the church.

As I've said over and over, just because an organization is owned by the church doesn't mean the FP and QT dictate everything to those organizations.

President Nelson and the rest have never promoted homosexuality and transgenderism. Quite the opposite is true.

My guess is that President Nelson and the apostles saw some good and some bad in this speech. They'll probably accentuate the positive and then address the bad indirectly. Just my guess.

Note that it is WELL KNOWN that BYU has wolves employed there. This isn't some little secret. Who doesn't know that by now? There are employees of BYU (faculty and staff) and students who are trying to undermine the law of chastity. It shouldn't surprise us when we see potential evidence of that.

And the Q of the 12 has zero to do with all the positive articles the transgender person is getting in Church-owned media?

If you have doubt, that doubt will eventually get removed.

The whole world is going/ has gone transgender. It's being rolled out at breakneck speed, compared to how long it took to roll out the homosexual agenda starting about 40 years ago. Homosexuality is absolutely mainstream. Transgenderism is almost mainstream and it's been just a matter of months (less than 12 months I'd say) since the propaganda has hit fire hydrant proportions! If you really think the Q of the 12 were blindsided by this dean, then please continue with head in sand. I just read last week where a transgender "woman" won 9 out of 10 events at a women's world-class weightlifting competition. The real women who had their world records broken by the penis-wielding "woman" were outraged. And the "woman" commented how well "she" was treated by the organizers. The event organizers rolled out the red carpet for "her."

I am glad you know there're wolves at BYU. Back in the 1970's, Elder Benson estimated the number to be in the thousands. That's THOUSANDS of wolves (communists, etc.). The leftists have all but taken over the institution. And you think the Q of the 12 don't know about that? In 40-50 years, you can bet there's been a TOTAL takeover. But no, the Q of the 12 know nothing! Completely ignorant and absolved of any complicity!

The left (run by Satan of course) mean business folks. Wolf infiltrators are already in the highest places in the Church. Bank on it. Proof? The biggest proof is complete lack of resistance to the onslaught of collectivism. Where are the ETB's of the Church who dare to speak out? ZERO! ZILCH! NADA. Nary a one.

If such a man were to exist as a leader even on a local level, even down to a EQ president, he'd be reprimanded quicker than you could say "None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen", and get promptly released and blackballed as a speaker.

Question: Who was the President at BYU when ETB was so worried about the "wolves" you are talking about? Hint: He is now in the first presidency himself.

Yes indeed, Pres Oaks was president of BYU from 1971 - 1980, and followed by Elder Holland. Elder Oaks was called by Spencer W. Kimball in 1984 into the Q of the 12, no doubt to ETB's dismay.

Oaks is a consummate insider. He's part of the modern Gadianton Robber machinations, having served as a director of the Union Pacific Corporation and Union Pacific Railroad. Never served a mission. And worked for years in the most corrupt of all institutions, the Legal Society, which is completely a tool of Satan (not that all lawyers are corrupt). And not that all directors of the Money Trust (secret combinations) are evil and corrupt. But, people, please do the basic math.

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:19 pm
If you have doubt, that doubt will eventually get removed.

The whole world is going/ has gone transgender. It's being rolled out at breakneck speed, compared to how long it took to roll out the homosexual agenda starting about 40 years ago. Homosexuality is absolutely mainstream. Transgenderism is almost mainstream and it's been just a matter of months (less than 12 months I'd say) since the propaganda has hit fire hydrant proportions! If you really think the Q of the 12 were blindsided by this dean, then please continue with head in sand. I just read last week where a transgender "woman" won 9 out of 10 events at a women's world-class weightlifting competition. The real women who had their world records broken by the penis-wielding "woman" were outraged. And the "woman" commented how well "she" was treated by the organizers. The event organizers rolled out the red carpet for "her."

I am glad you know there're wolves at BYU. Back in the 1970's, Elder Benson estimated the number to be in the thousands. That's THOUSANDS of wolves (communists, etc.). The leftists have all but taken over the institution. And you think the Q of the 12 don't know about that? In 40-50 years, you can bet there's been a TOTAL takeover. But no, the Q of the 12 know nothing! Completely ignorant and absolved of any complicity!

The left (run by Satan of course) mean business folks. Wolf infiltrators are already in the highest places in the Church. Bank on it. Proof? The biggest proof is complete lack of resistance to the onslaught of collectivism. Where are the ETB's of the Church who dare to speak out? ZERO! ZILCH! NADA. Nary a one.

If such a man were to exist as a leader even on a local level, even down to a EQ president, he'd be reprimanded quicker than you could say "None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen", and get promptly released and blackballed as a speaker.

Look, I think there's a lot you and I would agree on, but I think your focus is on an incorrect adversary.

We need to be very careful that we don't conflate that something happened with that it was orchestrated by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, at least not as a body. I don't doubt for a second that the adversary has allies in various wards, stakes, and even in the 70. Judas betrayed Jesus. The church in old times apostasize. It was killed from without and torn apart from within.

I have personally read at least two or three accounts of times apostles have chastised BYU students and employees for their looseness (to put it loosely) in supporting the doctrine of the church. President Oaks was President of BYU one of those times, and he spoke out in support of the prophets (on the modesty issue). I understand why it hurts that they don't speak out on such things directly more often. I have felt that pain as well. But, I don't believe for a second that it is driven by them. If they're silent, there's a very good reason you and I don't yet have access to.

I agree that it is very uncomfortable to see acceptance of Babylon at BYU, but I suggest that it may be to preserve opposition in the church and is a fulfillment of prophecy that in the latter-days, the church will be divided and sifted, the chaff from the wheat. Apostles have OVER AND OVER AND OVER, even recently, chastised the "learned" in the church for thinking they know more than the Lord's annointed about what is and isn't sin. A few decades ago, they did it more openly. Today, they do it more indirectly, like in parables.

I have never seen, not once, a single apostle support homosexuality or transgenderism. I have only seen them support, at their own peril, the law of chastity and God's plan for His children. We have to see it all in a greater context.

Yes, there are wolves. There are many wolves. The wolves are everywhere. They are gobbling up the youth of the church left and right. I believe that today, BYU is (for way too many students) where testimonies go to die. I would never send my child to BYU. Ever. I don't trust the teachers there to teach truth. At least at another school there's more reason to have your guard up. At BYU, people seem to just trust and believe because the organization is owned by the church. How naive. Don't we understand the prophecies even a little bit?

False doctrine sometimes even makes its way into official church publications. Does that mean the prophet and apostles are apostate? No! They don't micromanage every decision in the church. False teachings were present in official church publications even in Joseph Smith's day, and the church was way smaller then.

We need to do away with blind faith, like President Nelson has been urging. I believe that one reason he's been trying so hard to get us to receive revelation isn't because of all the lies being told us by people outside the church, but because of the more sophisticated lies being told us by wolves within. They know the church is infiltrated. We know they know. How? Because they've told us. President Ballard himself seems to mention it every time I see him in a regional conference (I always seem to get him for those). Just because they don't address these issues in the time and place of our choosing doesn't mean they don't address them at all.

They might send a letter to BYU. They might speak about it locally at BYU. They might address it in a stake conference, a regional conference, or later on in General Conference. Whenever they address it, they'll probably reiterate the same things they've been trying to help us understand all along: treat people nicer, and obey the law of chastity per the plan of God.

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:59 pm

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:19 pm
If you have doubt, that doubt will eventually get removed.

The whole world is going/ has gone transgender. It's being rolled out at breakneck speed, compared to how long it took to roll out the homosexual agenda starting about 40 years ago. Homosexuality is absolutely mainstream. Transgenderism is almost mainstream and it's been just a matter of months (less than 12 months I'd say) since the propaganda has hit fire hydrant proportions! If you really think the Q of the 12 were blindsided by this dean, then please continue with head in sand. I just read last week where a transgender "woman" won 9 out of 10 events at a women's world-class weightlifting competition. The real women who had their world records broken by the penis-wielding "woman" were outraged. And the "woman" commented how well "she" was treated by the organizers. The event organizers rolled out the red carpet for "her."

I am glad you know there're wolves at BYU. Back in the 1970's, Elder Benson estimated the number to be in the thousands. That's THOUSANDS of wolves (communists, etc.). The leftists have all but taken over the institution. And you think the Q of the 12 don't know about that? In 40-50 years, you can bet there's been a TOTAL takeover. But no, the Q of the 12 know nothing! Completely ignorant and absolved of any complicity!

The left (run by Satan of course) mean business folks. Wolf infiltrators are already in the highest places in the Church. Bank on it. Proof? The biggest proof is complete lack of resistance to the onslaught of collectivism. Where are the ETB's of the Church who dare to speak out? ZERO! ZILCH! NADA. Nary a one.

If such a man were to exist as a leader even on a local level, even down to a EQ president, he'd be reprimanded quicker than you could say "None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen", and get promptly released and blackballed as a speaker.

I have never seen, not once, a single apostle support homosexuality or transgenderism.

I wish that were true. Elder Ballard stated STE "we need to listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters".

That's pretty open support of homosexuality. It was Elder Ballard's comments that inspired (or gave the green-light) for the Augusteins to have a 3rd hour LGBT takeover.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:14 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:59 pm

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:19 pm
If you have doubt, that doubt will eventually get removed.

The whole world is going/ has gone transgender. It's being rolled out at breakneck speed, compared to how long it took to roll out the homosexual agenda starting about 40 years ago. Homosexuality is absolutely mainstream. Transgenderism is almost mainstream and it's been just a matter of months (less than 12 months I'd say) since the propaganda has hit fire hydrant proportions! If you really think the Q of the 12 were blindsided by this dean, then please continue with head in sand. I just read last week where a transgender "woman" won 9 out of 10 events at a women's world-class weightlifting competition. The real women who had their world records broken by the penis-wielding "woman" were outraged. And the "woman" commented how well "she" was treated by the organizers. The event organizers rolled out the red carpet for "her."

I am glad you know there're wolves at BYU. Back in the 1970's, Elder Benson estimated the number to be in the thousands. That's THOUSANDS of wolves (communists, etc.). The leftists have all but taken over the institution. And you think the Q of the 12 don't know about that? In 40-50 years, you can bet there's been a TOTAL takeover. But no, the Q of the 12 know nothing! Completely ignorant and absolved of any complicity!

The left (run by Satan of course) mean business folks. Wolf infiltrators are already in the highest places in the Church. Bank on it. Proof? The biggest proof is complete lack of resistance to the onslaught of collectivism. Where are the ETB's of the Church who dare to speak out? ZERO! ZILCH! NADA. Nary a one.

If such a man were to exist as a leader even on a local level, even down to a EQ president, he'd be reprimanded quicker than you could say "None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen", and get promptly released and blackballed as a speaker.

I have never seen, not once, a single apostle support homosexuality or transgenderism.

I wish that were true. Elder Ballard stated STE "we need to listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters".

That's pretty open support of homosexuality. It was Elder Ballard's comments that inspired (or gave the green-light) for the Augusteins to have a 3rd hour LGBT takeover.

Not to mention all the support the Church-owned media companies have been openly giving the transgender valedictorian that just spoke. If that's not open support, then what is?

Just because they largely remain silent doesn't mean anything. The apostles are the top board members, the directors, the bosses. They dictate what the newspapers write and don't write. They dictate what will be law in the state of Utah.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:14 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:59 pm

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:19 pm
If you have doubt, that doubt will eventually get removed.

The whole world is going/ has gone transgender. It's being rolled out at breakneck speed, compared to how long it took to roll out the homosexual agenda starting about 40 years ago. Homosexuality is absolutely mainstream. Transgenderism is almost mainstream and it's been just a matter of months (less than 12 months I'd say) since the propaganda has hit fire hydrant proportions! If you really think the Q of the 12 were blindsided by this dean, then please continue with head in sand. I just read last week where a transgender "woman" won 9 out of 10 events at a women's world-class weightlifting competition. The real women who had their world records broken by the penis-wielding "woman" were outraged. And the "woman" commented how well "she" was treated by the organizers. The event organizers rolled out the red carpet for "her."

I am glad you know there're wolves at BYU. Back in the 1970's, Elder Benson estimated the number to be in the thousands. That's THOUSANDS of wolves (communists, etc.). The leftists have all but taken over the institution. And you think the Q of the 12 don't know about that? In 40-50 years, you can bet there's been a TOTAL takeover. But no, the Q of the 12 know nothing! Completely ignorant and absolved of any complicity!

The left (run by Satan of course) mean business folks. Wolf infiltrators are already in the highest places in the Church. Bank on it. Proof? The biggest proof is complete lack of resistance to the onslaught of collectivism. Where are the ETB's of the Church who dare to speak out? ZERO! ZILCH! NADA. Nary a one.

If such a man were to exist as a leader even on a local level, even down to a EQ president, he'd be reprimanded quicker than you could say "None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen", and get promptly released and blackballed as a speaker.

I have never seen, not once, a single apostle support homosexuality or transgenderism.

I wish that were true. Elder Ballard stated STE "we need to listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters".

That's pretty open support of homosexuality. It was Elder Ballard's comments that inspired (or gave the green-light) for the Augusteins to have a 3rd hour LGBT takeover.

I think it would be very un Christ like to not "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters." Have you read the New Testament recently?

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:24 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:14 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:59 pm

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:19 pm
If you have doubt, that doubt will eventually get removed.

The whole world is going/ has gone transgender. It's being rolled out at breakneck speed, compared to how long it took to roll out the homosexual agenda starting about 40 years ago. Homosexuality is absolutely mainstream. Transgenderism is almost mainstream and it's been just a matter of months (less than 12 months I'd say) since the propaganda has hit fire hydrant proportions! If you really think the Q of the 12 were blindsided by this dean, then please continue with head in sand. I just read last week where a transgender "woman" won 9 out of 10 events at a women's world-class weightlifting competition. The real women who had their world records broken by the penis-wielding "woman" were outraged. And the "woman" commented how well "she" was treated by the organizers. The event organizers rolled out the red carpet for "her."

I am glad you know there're wolves at BYU. Back in the 1970's, Elder Benson estimated the number to be in the thousands. That's THOUSANDS of wolves (communists, etc.). The leftists have all but taken over the institution. And you think the Q of the 12 don't know about that? In 40-50 years, you can bet there's been a TOTAL takeover. But no, the Q of the 12 know nothing! Completely ignorant and absolved of any complicity!

The left (run by Satan of course) mean business folks. Wolf infiltrators are already in the highest places in the Church. Bank on it. Proof? The biggest proof is complete lack of resistance to the onslaught of collectivism. Where are the ETB's of the Church who dare to speak out? ZERO! ZILCH! NADA. Nary a one.

If such a man were to exist as a leader even on a local level, even down to a EQ president, he'd be reprimanded quicker than you could say "None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen", and get promptly released and blackballed as a speaker.

I have never seen, not once, a single apostle support homosexuality or transgenderism.

I wish that were true. Elder Ballard stated STE "we need to listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters".

That's pretty open support of homosexuality. It was Elder Ballard's comments that inspired (or gave the green-light) for the Augusteins to have a 3rd hour LGBT takeover.

I think it would be very un Christ like to not "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters." Have you read the New Testament recently?

So every prophet who ever lived beforehand was un Christ-like.

I think we should then "listen to and understand" pedophiles. If you don't then you are being a hypocrite and unChristlike.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:27 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:24 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:14 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:59 pm
I have never seen, not once, a single apostle support homosexuality or transgenderism.

I wish that were true. Elder Ballard stated STE "we need to listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters".

That's pretty open support of homosexuality. It was Elder Ballard's comments that inspired (or gave the green-light) for the Augusteins to have a 3rd hour LGBT takeover.

I think it would be very un Christ like to not "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters." Have you read the New Testament recently?

So every prophet who ever lived beforehand was un Christ-like.

I think we should then "listen to and understand" pedophiles. If you don't then you are being a hypocrite and unChristlike.

Let me reiterate. I fully support and sustain Elder Ballard (now President) and agree completely with the above statement.

I also completely support and sustain our Saviour and how he ate with publicans and sinners.

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:24 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:14 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:59 pm

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:19 pm
If you have doubt, that doubt will eventually get removed.

The whole world is going/ has gone transgender. It's being rolled out at breakneck speed, compared to how long it took to roll out the homosexual agenda starting about 40 years ago. Homosexuality is absolutely mainstream. Transgenderism is almost mainstream and it's been just a matter of months (less than 12 months I'd say) since the propaganda has hit fire hydrant proportions! If you really think the Q of the 12 were blindsided by this dean, then please continue with head in sand. I just read last week where a transgender "woman" won 9 out of 10 events at a women's world-class weightlifting competition. The real women who had their world records broken by the penis-wielding "woman" were outraged. And the "woman" commented how well "she" was treated by the organizers. The event organizers rolled out the red carpet for "her."

I am glad you know there're wolves at BYU. Back in the 1970's, Elder Benson estimated the number to be in the thousands. That's THOUSANDS of wolves (communists, etc.). The leftists have all but taken over the institution. And you think the Q of the 12 don't know about that? In 40-50 years, you can bet there's been a TOTAL takeover. But no, the Q of the 12 know nothing! Completely ignorant and absolved of any complicity!

The left (run by Satan of course) mean business folks. Wolf infiltrators are already in the highest places in the Church. Bank on it. Proof? The biggest proof is complete lack of resistance to the onslaught of collectivism. Where are the ETB's of the Church who dare to speak out? ZERO! ZILCH! NADA. Nary a one.

If such a man were to exist as a leader even on a local level, even down to a EQ president, he'd be reprimanded quicker than you could say "None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen", and get promptly released and blackballed as a speaker.

I have never seen, not once, a single apostle support homosexuality or transgenderism.

I wish that were true. Elder Ballard stated STE "we need to listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters".

That's pretty open support of homosexuality. It was Elder Ballard's comments that inspired (or gave the green-light) for the Augusteins to have a 3rd hour LGBT takeover.

I think it would be very un Christ like to not "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters." Have you read the New Testament recently?

On the one hand, I hear what you're saying. But what is there to understand or listen to?

Do we say we need to "listen to and understand our adultery-committing brothers and sisters" or "listen to and understand our pedophile brothers and sisters?" or if we are the Nephites, "listen to and understand our bloodthirsty Lamanite brothers and sisters who've sworn to annihilate us?"

The LGBTQUVWXYZ community have an agenda! And that agenda is to destroy wholesomeness. It's radical. It's dangerous. It's authoritarian. It's evil.

So when an apostle says he wants to "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters", you have to start wondering what the apostle is thinking. Is he just naive? Or is he being politically correct to avoid lawsuits? What about the truth? What about the obvious fact of the matter that a church purporting to be Zion, where the pure in heart are supposed to dwell, is the LAST place the LGBTQ community would even WANT to be a part of.

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:39 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:24 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:14 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:59 pm
I have never seen, not once, a single apostle support homosexuality or transgenderism.

I wish that were true. Elder Ballard stated STE "we need to listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters".

That's pretty open support of homosexuality. It was Elder Ballard's comments that inspired (or gave the green-light) for the Augusteins to have a 3rd hour LGBT takeover.

I think it would be very un Christ like to not "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters." Have you read the New Testament recently?

On the one hand, I hear what you're saying. But what is there to understand or listen to?

Do we say we need to "listen to and understand our adultery-committing brothers and sisters" or "listen to and understand our pedophile brothers and sisters?" or if we are the Nephites, "listen to and understand our bloodthirsty Lamanite brothers and sisters who've sworn to annihilate us?"

The LGBTQUVWXYZ community have an agenda! And that agenda is to destroy wholesomeness. It's radical. It's dangerous. It's authoritarian. It's evil.

So when an apostle says he wants to "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters", you have to start wondering what the apostle is thinking. Is he just naive? Or is he being politically correct to avoid lawsuits? What about the truth? What about the obvious fact of the matter that a church purporting to be Zion, where the pure in heart are supposed to dwell, is the LAST place the LGBTQ community would even WANT to be a part of.

Do not doubt for a minute that the LDS LGBTQ community wants to be a part of the Mormon community. They want all LDS to come to the "knowledge" that gay marriages, and trans marriages are accepted and ordained by God, just as hetero marriages are. Right now they are pushing to get civil gay marriage between two LGBTQ members of the church fully accepted, and then they will move on to sealings. They HATE the comparisons to pedophilia and adultery, because they say a civil marriage makes whatever they do in their bedroom, not only none of our business, but fully acceptable to God. There is no love the sinner, hate the sin, because they say there is no sin.

This is so easy to find online, and it's on public pages, that I find it inconceivable that the Top 15 are not aware of what's going on. So I don't believe the "naive" excuse. They are trying to straddle the fence, as well as stopping people from coming to their offices and accusing them of causing LGBTQ suicides.

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:39 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:24 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:14 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 12:59 pm
I have never seen, not once, a single apostle support homosexuality or transgenderism.

I wish that were true. Elder Ballard stated STE "we need to listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters".

That's pretty open support of homosexuality. It was Elder Ballard's comments that inspired (or gave the green-light) for the Augusteins to have a 3rd hour LGBT takeover.

I think it would be very un Christ like to not "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters." Have you read the New Testament recently?

On the one hand, I hear what you're saying. But what is there to understand or listen to?

Do we say we need to "listen to and understand our adultery-committing brothers and sisters" or "listen to and understand our pedophile brothers and sisters?" or if we are the Nephites, "listen to and understand our bloodthirsty Lamanite brothers and sisters who've sworn to annihilate us?"

The LGBTQUVWXYZ community have an agenda! And that agenda is to destroy wholesomeness. It's radical. It's dangerous. It's authoritarian. It's evil.

So when an apostle says he wants to "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters", you have to start wondering what the apostle is thinking. Is he just naive? Or is he being politically correct to avoid lawsuits? What about the truth? What about the obvious fact of the matter that a church purporting to be Zion, where the pure in heart are supposed to dwell, is the LAST place the LGBTQ community would even WANT to be a part of.

"Listen to an understand" isn't equivalent to "condone and enable their behavior."
These men are interested in bringing them to repentance. When was it ever a bad idea to listen to and understand where a person is coming from? It's part of the cycle of teaching investigators in the church. It's part of every effective pattern there is when it comes to helping people change, and helping them live faithful lives.

Look, there really are things we need to change relevant to how we treat homosexuals. Nobody should be bullied, for example.

I had a conversation years ago with someone who was pro-immodesty about how they believe people who support modesty support the rape culture (a ridiculous assertion). I wrote in response that we would be fools to NOT listen to and understand rapists when they sit there telling us what led them to do what they did, especially when they are penitent and are trying to help others avoid the same downfall. We don't have to believe everything they say. But, if we truly care about instigating change, we definitely should listen and understand what's going on.

You can try to assign a motive to President Ballard, but I feel certain and settled that they have righteous motives, and that we're just looking through a glass darkly.

I don't feel the same way about many people in the church who are actively trying to undermine it.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 2:04 pm

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:39 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:24 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:14 pm
I wish that were true. Elder Ballard stated STE "we need to listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters".

That's pretty open support of homosexuality. It was Elder Ballard's comments that inspired (or gave the green-light) for the Augusteins to have a 3rd hour LGBT takeover.

I think it would be very un Christ like to not "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters." Have you read the New Testament recently?

On the one hand, I hear what you're saying. But what is there to understand or listen to?

Do we say we need to "listen to and understand our adultery-committing brothers and sisters" or "listen to and understand our pedophile brothers and sisters?" or if we are the Nephites, "listen to and understand our bloodthirsty Lamanite brothers and sisters who've sworn to annihilate us?"

The LGBTQUVWXYZ community have an agenda! And that agenda is to destroy wholesomeness. It's radical. It's dangerous. It's authoritarian. It's evil.

So when an apostle says he wants to "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters", you have to start wondering what the apostle is thinking. Is he just naive? Or is he being politically correct to avoid lawsuits? What about the truth? What about the obvious fact of the matter that a church purporting to be Zion, where the pure in heart are supposed to dwell, is the LAST place the LGBTQ community would even WANT to be a part of.

Do not doubt for a minute that the LDS LGBTQ community wants to be a part of the Mormon community. They want all LDS to come to the "knowledge" that gay marriages, and trans marriages are accepted and ordained by God, just as hetero marriages are. Right now they are pushing to get civil gay marriage between two LGBTQ members of the church fully accepted, and then they will move on to sealings. They HATE the comparisons to pedophilia and adultery, because they say a civil marriage makes whatever they do in their bedroom, not only none of our business, but fully acceptable to God. There is no love the sinner, hate the sin, because they say there is no sin.

This is so easy to find online, and it's on public pages, that I find it inconceivable that the Top 15 are not aware of what's going on. So I don't believe the "naive" excuse. They are trying to straddle the fence, as well as stopping people from coming to their offices and accusing them of causing LGBTQ suicides.

Lizzy,

As soon as the Church incorporated according to the laws of the state, it became subservient to its new master. The only way to avoid the state becoming its master was, of course, to not incorporate. Incorporation means the state is the creator, and as such has the power to decide what rights the corporation has, and even to dictate its very existence.

So I agree, the apostles are are trying to play both sides. One foot is in Babylon, the other in, theoretically, Zion. But we know they cannot serve two masters. There can only be one master, and in this case, it must be the state, as the state will deal swiftly with those who oppose it. The apostles dare not oppose the state.

And so the question becomes, what rights and privileges will the state grant the LGBTQ community? It's clear they will be made full equals. Meaning, that all corporations must play along or face fines and threats to the corporation's wealth. It's very clear that the apostles will submit to the state. This carefully-orchestrated valedictorian's speech was done at this time, as its a stepping stone to preparing the minds of the members to accept the LGBTQ community. OF COURSE, the Church will move in the direction of accepting the LGBTQ community. Isn't the MoTab doing concerts with the LGBTQ community?

Ah, yes they are.

To whomever above was doubtful that the apostles are completely in the loop and approving of positive overtures toward the LGBTQ community, please take a look at this:

https://www.lds.org/church/news/mormon- ... s?lang=eng

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 2:09 pm

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:39 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:24 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:14 pm
I wish that were true. Elder Ballard stated STE "we need to listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters".

That's pretty open support of homosexuality. It was Elder Ballard's comments that inspired (or gave the green-light) for the Augusteins to have a 3rd hour LGBT takeover.

I think it would be very un Christ like to not "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters." Have you read the New Testament recently?

On the one hand, I hear what you're saying. But what is there to understand or listen to?

Do we say we need to "listen to and understand our adultery-committing brothers and sisters" or "listen to and understand our pedophile brothers and sisters?" or if we are the Nephites, "listen to and understand our bloodthirsty Lamanite brothers and sisters who've sworn to annihilate us?"

The LGBTQUVWXYZ community have an agenda! And that agenda is to destroy wholesomeness. It's radical. It's dangerous. It's authoritarian. It's evil.

So when an apostle says he wants to "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters", you have to start wondering what the apostle is thinking. Is he just naive? Or is he being politically correct to avoid lawsuits? What about the truth? What about the obvious fact of the matter that a church purporting to be Zion, where the pure in heart are supposed to dwell, is the LAST place the LGBTQ community would even WANT to be a part of.

"Listen to an understand" isn't equivalent to "condone and enable their behavior."
These men are interested in bringing them to repentance. When was it ever a bad idea to listen to and understand where a person is coming from? It's part of the cycle of teaching investigators in the church. It's part of every effective pattern there is when it comes to helping people change, and helping them live faithful lives.

Look, there really are things we need to change relevant to how we treat homosexuals. Nobody should be bullied, for example.

I had a conversation years ago with someone who was pro-immodesty about how they believe people who support modesty support the rape culture (a ridiculous assertion). I wrote in response that we would be fools to NOT listen to and understand rapists when they sit there telling us what led them to do what they did, especially when they are penitent and are trying to help others avoid the same downfall. We don't have to believe everything they say. But, if we truly care about instigating change, we definitely should listen and understand what's going on.

You can try to assign a motive to President Ballard, but I feel certain and settled that they have righteous motives, and that we're just looking through a glass darkly.

I don't feel the same way about many people in the church who are actively trying to undermine it.

They are banking on you being "settled that they have righteous motives." Meanwhile they're steering the ship off course. Here's more evidence that the apostles approved of the gay valedictorian coming out speech:

https://www.lds.org/church/news/mormon- ... s?lang=eng

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 2:24 pm

i'mnotspecial wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 2:09 pm

topcat wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:39 pm

justme wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 1:24 pm

I think it would be very un Christ like to not "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters." Have you read the New Testament recently?

On the one hand, I hear what you're saying. But what is there to understand or listen to?

Do we say we need to "listen to and understand our adultery-committing brothers and sisters" or "listen to and understand our pedophile brothers and sisters?" or if we are the Nephites, "listen to and understand our bloodthirsty Lamanite brothers and sisters who've sworn to annihilate us?"

The LGBTQUVWXYZ community have an agenda! And that agenda is to destroy wholesomeness. It's radical. It's dangerous. It's authoritarian. It's evil.

So when an apostle says he wants to "listen to and understand our LGBT brothers and sisters", you have to start wondering what the apostle is thinking. Is he just naive? Or is he being politically correct to avoid lawsuits? What about the truth? What about the obvious fact of the matter that a church purporting to be Zion, where the pure in heart are supposed to dwell, is the LAST place the LGBTQ community would even WANT to be a part of.

"Listen to an understand" isn't equivalent to "condone and enable their behavior."
These men are interested in bringing them to repentance. When was it ever a bad idea to listen to and understand where a person is coming from? It's part of the cycle of teaching investigators in the church. It's part of every effective pattern there is when it comes to helping people change, and helping them live faithful lives.

Look, there really are things we need to change relevant to how we treat homosexuals. Nobody should be bullied, for example.

I had a conversation years ago with someone who was pro-immodesty about how they believe people who support modesty support the rape culture (a ridiculous assertion). I wrote in response that we would be fools to NOT listen to and understand rapists when they sit there telling us what led them to do what they did, especially when they are penitent and are trying to help others avoid the same downfall. We don't have to believe everything they say. But, if we truly care about instigating change, we definitely should listen and understand what's going on.

You can try to assign a motive to President Ballard, but I feel certain and settled that they have righteous motives, and that we're just looking through a glass darkly.

I don't feel the same way about many people in the church who are actively trying to undermine it.

They are banking on you being "settled that they have righteous motives." Meanwhile they're steering the ship off course. Here's more evidence that the apostles approved of the gay valedictorian coming out speech:

https://www.lds.org/church/news/mormon- ... s?lang=eng

And Lucifer is banking on us being suspicious of their motives so he can lead us into apostasy.

When I hear an apostle say anything at all that is supportive of gay sex or gay marriage, I'll accept that as evidence that something is amiss somewhere or with someone in the council. The evidence you've provided is evidence that the FP and QT approves of general outreach to the LGBT community, not that it is going to change what God's plan is or what the law of chastity is.