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Re: Eternal Damnation

Posted: April 27th, 2019, 6:13 pm
by Zathura
The only reason they become Sons of Perdition is because repentance is impossible for them . Why is that? Because they already were sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost and were enlightened by it and decided to deny the Holy Ghost.

For anyone else who has not been sanctified by the Holy Ghost repentance is not impossible for them because they have not yet been renewed.

Re: Eternal Damnation

Posted: April 27th, 2019, 6:27 pm
by jsk
Cheetos wrote: April 27th, 2019, 5:55 pm
jsk wrote: April 27th, 2019, 1:45 pm If it is possible to progress from one Kingdom to another, then how do you explain away the quotes below? What Prophets have taught such a thing is possible?


Some Mormons seem to be under the impression that there is a chance to improve themselves beyond the grave; even though their mortal lifestyle may not qualify them for exaltation, give or take a million years or so, they too often believe they can eventually leave their originally assigned kingdom and advance up the ladder towards the celestial. In response to such a notion 10th President Joseph Fielding Smith said, “It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory? The answer to this question is, No! The scriptures are clear on this point” (Doctrines of Salvation 2:31).

Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball concurred. On pages 243-244 of his book The Miracle of Forgiveness, he noted, “No progression between kingdoms. After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom, either in the telestial, the terrestrial, or the celestial, or to his exaltation, he will never advance from his assigned glory to another glory. That is eternal! That is why we must make our decisions early in life and why it is imperative that such decisions be right.” (Also cited in The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.50; and Search These Commandments, 1984 ed., pp.81-82.)

In light of these comments, I personally can’t see why Latter-day Saints would look forward to entering their third estate. Doctrine and Covenants 25:15 warns LDS members to “Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.” If that passage is true, there is certain to be a lot of disappointed Mormons in the next life.

## Bruce McConkie

“There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.” ([The Seven Deadly Heresies](http://lds-mormon.com/heresies.shtml))

## Joseph Fielding Smith

“NO ADVANCEMENT FROM LOWER TO HIGHER. It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory? The answer to this question is, No! The scriptures are clear on this point. Speaking of those who go to the telestial kingdom, the revelation says: ‘And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.’ Notwithstanding this statement, those who do not comprehend the word of the Lord argue that while this is true, that they cannot go where God is ‘worlds without end,’ yet in time they will get where God was, but he will have gone on to other heights. This is false reasoning, illogical, and creates mischief in making people think they may procrastinate their repentance, but in course of time they will reach exaltation in celestial glory.

“KINGDOMS PROGRESS IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. Now let us see how faulty this reasoning is. If in time those who enter the telestial glory may progress till they reach the stage in which the celestial is in now-then they are in celestial glory, are they not, even if the celestial has advanced? That being the case (I state this for the argument only, for it is not true), then they partake of all the blessings which are now celestial. That means that they become gods, have exaltation, gain the fulness of the Father, and receive a continuation of the ‘seeds forever.’ The Lord, however, has said that these blessings, which are celestial blessings, they may never have; they are barred forever! The celestial and terrestrial and telestial glories, I have heard compared to the wheels on a train. The second and third may, and will, reach the place where the first was, but the first will have moved on and will still be just the same distance in advance of them. This illustration is not true! The wheels do not run on the same track, and do not go in the same direction. The terrestrial and the telestial are limited in their powers of advancement, worlds without end.” (Doctrines of Salvation v. 2)
Just like us, they have opinions too.
With all due respect...that’s your answer? I was hoping for some authoritative quotes. If that’s the best you’ve got then I’ll stick with the Prophets.

Re: Eternal Damnation

Posted: April 27th, 2019, 6:31 pm
by Zathura
jsk wrote: April 27th, 2019, 6:27 pm
Cheetos wrote: April 27th, 2019, 5:55 pm
jsk wrote: April 27th, 2019, 1:45 pm If it is possible to progress from one Kingdom to another, then how do you explain away the quotes below? What Prophets have taught such a thing is possible?


Some Mormons seem to be under the impression that there is a chance to improve themselves beyond the grave; even though their mortal lifestyle may not qualify them for exaltation, give or take a million years or so, they too often believe they can eventually leave their originally assigned kingdom and advance up the ladder towards the celestial. In response to such a notion 10th President Joseph Fielding Smith said, “It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory? The answer to this question is, No! The scriptures are clear on this point” (Doctrines of Salvation 2:31).

Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball concurred. On pages 243-244 of his book The Miracle of Forgiveness, he noted, “No progression between kingdoms. After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom, either in the telestial, the terrestrial, or the celestial, or to his exaltation, he will never advance from his assigned glory to another glory. That is eternal! That is why we must make our decisions early in life and why it is imperative that such decisions be right.” (Also cited in The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.50; and Search These Commandments, 1984 ed., pp.81-82.)

In light of these comments, I personally can’t see why Latter-day Saints would look forward to entering their third estate. Doctrine and Covenants 25:15 warns LDS members to “Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.” If that passage is true, there is certain to be a lot of disappointed Mormons in the next life.

## Bruce McConkie

“There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.” ([The Seven Deadly Heresies](http://lds-mormon.com/heresies.shtml))

## Joseph Fielding Smith

“NO ADVANCEMENT FROM LOWER TO HIGHER. It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory? The answer to this question is, No! The scriptures are clear on this point. Speaking of those who go to the telestial kingdom, the revelation says: ‘And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.’ Notwithstanding this statement, those who do not comprehend the word of the Lord argue that while this is true, that they cannot go where God is ‘worlds without end,’ yet in time they will get where God was, but he will have gone on to other heights. This is false reasoning, illogical, and creates mischief in making people think they may procrastinate their repentance, but in course of time they will reach exaltation in celestial glory.

“KINGDOMS PROGRESS IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. Now let us see how faulty this reasoning is. If in time those who enter the telestial glory may progress till they reach the stage in which the celestial is in now-then they are in celestial glory, are they not, even if the celestial has advanced? That being the case (I state this for the argument only, for it is not true), then they partake of all the blessings which are now celestial. That means that they become gods, have exaltation, gain the fulness of the Father, and receive a continuation of the ‘seeds forever.’ The Lord, however, has said that these blessings, which are celestial blessings, they may never have; they are barred forever! The celestial and terrestrial and telestial glories, I have heard compared to the wheels on a train. The second and third may, and will, reach the place where the first was, but the first will have moved on and will still be just the same distance in advance of them. This illustration is not true! The wheels do not run on the same track, and do not go in the same direction. The terrestrial and the telestial are limited in their powers of advancement, worlds without end.” (Doctrines of Salvation v. 2)
Just like us, they have opinions too.
With all due respect...that’s your answer? I was hoping for some authoritative quotes. If that’s the best you’ve got then I’ll stick with the Prophets.
I shared on the other thread a quote from Cheetos.
He explicitly stated that he has a personal views of heaven that don’t include the 3 kingdoms.
He knows every scripture that’s being presented from D&C, he just literally doesn’t believe them.

There’s no point , the conversation with him won’t be fruitful .

Re: Eternal Damnation

Posted: April 27th, 2019, 8:26 pm
by justme
jsk wrote: April 27th, 2019, 6:27 pm
Cheetos wrote: April 27th, 2019, 5:55 pm
jsk wrote: April 27th, 2019, 1:45 pm If it is possible to progress from one Kingdom to another, then how do you explain away the quotes below? What Prophets have taught such a thing is possible?


Some Mormons seem to be under the impression that there is a chance to improve themselves beyond the grave; even though their mortal lifestyle may not qualify them for exaltation, give or take a million years or so, they too often believe they can eventually leave their originally assigned kingdom and advance up the ladder towards the celestial. In response to such a notion 10th President Joseph Fielding Smith said, “It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory? The answer to this question is, No! The scriptures are clear on this point” (Doctrines of Salvation 2:31).

Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball concurred. On pages 243-244 of his book The Miracle of Forgiveness, he noted, “No progression between kingdoms. After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom, either in the telestial, the terrestrial, or the celestial, or to his exaltation, he will never advance from his assigned glory to another glory. That is eternal! That is why we must make our decisions early in life and why it is imperative that such decisions be right.” (Also cited in The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.50; and Search These Commandments, 1984 ed., pp.81-82.)

In light of these comments, I personally can’t see why Latter-day Saints would look forward to entering their third estate. Doctrine and Covenants 25:15 warns LDS members to “Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.” If that passage is true, there is certain to be a lot of disappointed Mormons in the next life.

## Bruce McConkie

“There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.” ([The Seven Deadly Heresies](http://lds-mormon.com/heresies.shtml))

## Joseph Fielding Smith

“NO ADVANCEMENT FROM LOWER TO HIGHER. It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory? The answer to this question is, No! The scriptures are clear on this point. Speaking of those who go to the telestial kingdom, the revelation says: ‘And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.’ Notwithstanding this statement, those who do not comprehend the word of the Lord argue that while this is true, that they cannot go where God is ‘worlds without end,’ yet in time they will get where God was, but he will have gone on to other heights. This is false reasoning, illogical, and creates mischief in making people think they may procrastinate their repentance, but in course of time they will reach exaltation in celestial glory.

“KINGDOMS PROGRESS IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. Now let us see how faulty this reasoning is. If in time those who enter the telestial glory may progress till they reach the stage in which the celestial is in now-then they are in celestial glory, are they not, even if the celestial has advanced? That being the case (I state this for the argument only, for it is not true), then they partake of all the blessings which are now celestial. That means that they become gods, have exaltation, gain the fulness of the Father, and receive a continuation of the ‘seeds forever.’ The Lord, however, has said that these blessings, which are celestial blessings, they may never have; they are barred forever! The celestial and terrestrial and telestial glories, I have heard compared to the wheels on a train. The second and third may, and will, reach the place where the first was, but the first will have moved on and will still be just the same distance in advance of them. This illustration is not true! The wheels do not run on the same track, and do not go in the same direction. The terrestrial and the telestial are limited in their powers of advancement, worlds without end.” (Doctrines of Salvation v. 2)
Just like us, they have opinions too.
With all due respect...that’s your answer? I was hoping for some authoritative quotes. If that’s the best you’ve got then I’ll stick with the Prophets.
I found the following quote on another website about this issue from Joseph Anderson, long time secretary to the first presidency.
"The brethren direct me to say that the Church has never announced a definite doctrine upon this point. Some of the brethren have held the view that it was possible in the course of progression to advance from one glory to another, invoking the principle of eternal progression; others of the brethren have taken the opposite view. But as stated, the Church has never announced a definite doctrine on this point.

Sincerely your brother, Joseph L Anderson, Secretary of the First Presidency” </ref>Joseph L. Anderson, Secretary to the First Presidency in a 1952 letter; and again in 1965.</ref>

Re: Eternal Damnation

Posted: April 27th, 2019, 10:43 pm
by Cheetos
Stahura wrote: April 27th, 2019, 6:31 pm
jsk wrote: April 27th, 2019, 6:27 pm
Cheetos wrote: April 27th, 2019, 5:55 pm
jsk wrote: April 27th, 2019, 1:45 pm If it is possible to progress from one Kingdom to another, then how do you explain away the quotes below? What Prophets have taught such a thing is possible?


Some Mormons seem to be under the impression that there is a chance to improve themselves beyond the grave; even though their mortal lifestyle may not qualify them for exaltation, give or take a million years or so, they too often believe they can eventually leave their originally assigned kingdom and advance up the ladder towards the celestial. In response to such a notion 10th President Joseph Fielding Smith said, “It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory? The answer to this question is, No! The scriptures are clear on this point” (Doctrines of Salvation 2:31).

Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball concurred. On pages 243-244 of his book The Miracle of Forgiveness, he noted, “No progression between kingdoms. After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom, either in the telestial, the terrestrial, or the celestial, or to his exaltation, he will never advance from his assigned glory to another glory. That is eternal! That is why we must make our decisions early in life and why it is imperative that such decisions be right.” (Also cited in The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.50; and Search These Commandments, 1984 ed., pp.81-82.)

In light of these comments, I personally can’t see why Latter-day Saints would look forward to entering their third estate. Doctrine and Covenants 25:15 warns LDS members to “Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.” If that passage is true, there is certain to be a lot of disappointed Mormons in the next life.

## Bruce McConkie

“There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.” ([The Seven Deadly Heresies](http://lds-mormon.com/heresies.shtml))

## Joseph Fielding Smith

“NO ADVANCEMENT FROM LOWER TO HIGHER. It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory? The answer to this question is, No! The scriptures are clear on this point. Speaking of those who go to the telestial kingdom, the revelation says: ‘And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.’ Notwithstanding this statement, those who do not comprehend the word of the Lord argue that while this is true, that they cannot go where God is ‘worlds without end,’ yet in time they will get where God was, but he will have gone on to other heights. This is false reasoning, illogical, and creates mischief in making people think they may procrastinate their repentance, but in course of time they will reach exaltation in celestial glory.

“KINGDOMS PROGRESS IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. Now let us see how faulty this reasoning is. If in time those who enter the telestial glory may progress till they reach the stage in which the celestial is in now-then they are in celestial glory, are they not, even if the celestial has advanced? That being the case (I state this for the argument only, for it is not true), then they partake of all the blessings which are now celestial. That means that they become gods, have exaltation, gain the fulness of the Father, and receive a continuation of the ‘seeds forever.’ The Lord, however, has said that these blessings, which are celestial blessings, they may never have; they are barred forever! The celestial and terrestrial and telestial glories, I have heard compared to the wheels on a train. The second and third may, and will, reach the place where the first was, but the first will have moved on and will still be just the same distance in advance of them. This illustration is not true! The wheels do not run on the same track, and do not go in the same direction. The terrestrial and the telestial are limited in their powers of advancement, worlds without end.” (Doctrines of Salvation v. 2)
Just like us, they have opinions too.
With all due respect...that’s your answer? I was hoping for some authoritative quotes. If that’s the best you’ve got then I’ll stick with the Prophets.
I shared on the other thread a quote from Cheetos.
He explicitly stated that he has a personal views of heaven that don’t include the 3 kingdoms.
He knows every scripture that’s being presented from D&C, he just literally doesn’t believe them.

There’s no point , the conversation with him won’t be fruitful .
It's rather rude to speak for others. Just saying.

Re: Eternal Damnation

Posted: April 27th, 2019, 10:44 pm
by Cheetos
For someone "born again" one would think they were Christlike...

Re: Eternal Damnation

Posted: April 27th, 2019, 10:53 pm
by Zathura
Cheetos wrote: April 27th, 2019, 10:43 pm
Stahura wrote: April 27th, 2019, 6:31 pm
jsk wrote: April 27th, 2019, 6:27 pm
Cheetos wrote: April 27th, 2019, 5:55 pm

Just like us, they have opinions too.
With all due respect...that’s your answer? I was hoping for some authoritative quotes. If that’s the best you’ve got then I’ll stick with the Prophets.
I shared on the other thread a quote from Cheetos.
He explicitly stated that he has a personal views of heaven that don’t include the 3 kingdoms.
He knows every scripture that’s being presented from D&C, he just literally doesn’t believe them.

There’s no point , the conversation with him won’t be fruitful .
It's rather rude to speak for others. Just saying.
I didn’t speak for you, you spoke for yourself there buddy. I literally quoted you.

This is awkward now...
Cheetos wrote: April 18th, 2019, 12:49 pm I agree. I have my own personal view of heaven that doesnt include the three world salvation model. With being born again I think perhaps we put too much into it in defining it. We both agree that it is more of an event, we just disagree on what the event is.
Go take a look at the mirror pal, you’ve been nothing but condescending and rude to those on this forum since you showed up.

I suppose if it helps you feel better about yourself, go for it.
👍

Re: Eternal Damnation

Posted: April 27th, 2019, 11:26 pm
by Zathura
Cheetos wrote: April 27th, 2019, 10:44 pm For someone "born again" one would think they were Christlike...
Not once have I expressed doubt in your experiences, not once have I suggested you aren’t Christian or that you don’t have the Spirit or that you haven’t been born of God.

This has to be at least the 10th time you’ve said something like this to me.

Seriously, if you can’t restrain yourself just ignore my posts.

I think you’re a good guy. God bless

Re: Eternal Damnation

Posted: April 28th, 2019, 9:13 am
by Cheetos
Stahura wrote: April 27th, 2019, 11:26 pm
Cheetos wrote: April 27th, 2019, 10:44 pm For someone "born again" one would think they were Christlike...
Not once have I expressed doubt in your experiences, not once have I suggested you aren’t Christian or that you don’t have the Spirit or that you haven’t been born of God.

This has to be at least the 10th time you’ve said something like this to me.

Seriously, if you can’t restrain yourself just ignore my posts.

I think you’re a good guy. God bless
By your standards of being in an elite born again class it's really hard to believe this is what discipleship looks like.

Re: Eternal Damnation

Posted: April 28th, 2019, 10:37 am
by Zathura
Cheetos wrote: April 28th, 2019, 9:13 am
Stahura wrote: April 27th, 2019, 11:26 pm
Cheetos wrote: April 27th, 2019, 10:44 pm For someone "born again" one would think they were Christlike...
Not once have I expressed doubt in your experiences, not once have I suggested you aren’t Christian or that you don’t have the Spirit or that you haven’t been born of God.

This has to be at least the 10th time you’ve said something like this to me.

Seriously, if you can’t restrain yourself just ignore my posts.

I think you’re a good guy. God bless
By your standards of being in an elite born again class it's really hard to believe this is what discipleship looks like.
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