thestock wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 12:27 pm
- Claimed he could locate buried treasure using a stone and was tried in court over it
If he could, why didn't he ever do it? Even if he could, so?
- Began telling the stories of the Nephite and Lamanite people in such great details "as if he had lived amongst them his whole life" years before claiming to have recovered Golden plates
So? We know that it took him four years to get to the point where he could get the plates and we also know that he received instruction during that time. Who can say that part of that preparation wasn't visions of what he was going to be translating?
- Varying claims of the plates experience: 1) he found the plates using the seer stone, 2) the plates were guarded by a spirit named Nephi, 3) in the later versions Nephi becomes Moroni instead and he is shown the location of the plates rather than finding them with his stone
Please give citations for 1 and 2.
- Claims to translate the plates and uses the same method previously used to deceive people in the money digging ventures
So? There are plenty of stories in the Bible of people using objects and symbols to strengthen their faith (e.g. fleece). It shouldn't be a surprise that God would interact with Joseph in a similar way.
- After losing the 116 pages, and knowing he could not dictate them again verbatim, he claims evil men would "change" them (an odd claim, since being unable to reproduce an ancient text if using the power of God seems more likely to discredit) so proceeds to dictate an alternate version from the perspective of an alternate character instead
He clearly said that even if he did translate them verbatim, those who took the pages would change them and use that to attempt to discredit him. Seems a legitimate concern, considering what was going on at the time.
- Raises money in a fraudulent banking venture that goes bust after 1 month....he is wanted for fraud in 2 states and flees to avoid prosecution
Please show where he was convicted of any wrongdoing.
- About 20% of the Book of Mormon is simply copied from the Bible verbatim, including original errors contained in the KJV
And some of it contains Biblical passages (e.g. Isaiah) that weren't known in his time and were only discovered later. Also, if the stick of Judah and stick of Joseph are to be twin testimonies of Christ, it only makes sense that they would be vastly similar.
- Other BOM doctrines (i.e. Satan can appear as an angel of light) are taken directly from the Bible
Shouldn't that be the case?
- Main plot and setting of the Book of Mormon taken directly from the contemporary View of the Hebrews
Yeah, only it isn't. Try reading View of the Hebrews.
- Temple Ceremony taken directly from Free Mason initiation ceremony
And where did the Mason ceremony come from again?
- Claims to translate the Book of Abraham, "written by Abraham's own hand on papyrus"....the translation is shown to be bogus as the original scroll is a funerary text dated to 100 BC (why would an Egyptian mummy be buried with the contemporary journal of a Hebrew anyway?)
Hugh Nibley addressed this quite well in a couple of his books.
- Like modern leaders with the Hoffman scandal....Smith was unable to detect an obvious fraud and claims to translate portions of the bogus Kinderhook plates
Actually, there is a newspaper article about that incident and according to the guy that wrote the article, Joseph took the Kinderhook plates, opened up an Egyptian dictionary he carried around with him, and basically said, "I can't read these, but this L-shaped character means it was written by Ham." Hardly prophetic.
- Practices polygamy and polyandry in secret from Emma and the public, including marriage to teenagers as young as 14, and on occasion telling some that accepting plural marriage to him would ensure their salvation in the celestial kingdom, and claiming to others that rejecting it will bring his swift death at the hands of an angel via a flaming sword
There's no evidence that Joseph had sex with most of these people and there's plenty of evidence that he was doing "eternity only" sealings in order to abide by the commandment of plural marriage without actually doing it. According to church history, the angel with the sword appeared to him and threatened him with destruction if he didn't knock it off and start following the command correctly.
- time and again turns on his closest friends and associates, including apostles and first presidency members, calling them vile, evil, and not to be trusted or associated with....after such individuals raised objections to certain of his shady activities.
In all fairness, they turned on him first.
- Destroyed a printing press that was alerting the public to his polygamy (and this is the cause of his arrest and eventual death)
And?
- The Book of Abraham seems to be taken directly from the Apocalypse of Abraham, just like he took View of the Hebrews and just like he took the Mason ceremony and made them his creations
Yeah, only it isn't.
- Claims a random pile of bones is "Zelph", a former Jaredite
And?
- Organizes Zion's Camp which turns out to be a disastrous failure with the camp stricken with Cholera (why didnt he learn by revelation that boiling their water could have avoided it?)
Was it a failure? Look at everything that group learned from the experience.
- Claims temple in Missouri would be built in his lifetime (it still isnt built)
And?
-No physical evidence for BOM exists at all, from coinage to weapons of war, to animals, to evidences of the large civilizations and wars (in some cases where 2 million people died in one battle).....there is absolutely ZERO evidence for any of it and the Smithsonian Institute has declared the BOM a work of fiction.
That's not accurate. The Smithsonian Institute said that the Book of Mormon is a religious book and not a scientific guide and that their archaeologists have never used it as a scientific guide. That is MUCH different than what you just said.
- Gave conflicting accounts of his first vision. Some include seeing just the Lord, others include seeing God and Christ together, some include the emphasis being that his sins are forgiven, later the emphasis is that all churches are false and he is a chosen vessel. No actual account is given before 1838.
You try giving verbal accounts of a 20-year-old event months or years apart and see how many variations you come up with.
So the experiment is this: in light of these facts from the historical record that paint Joseph Smith as an obvious fraud and charlatan, can he be a true prophet because he seems to be obsessed with confessing Jesus Christ to all? Does he pass the test of a prophet based on John 4:2-3 alone?
Same tired argument from anti-mormons for over 100 years. Yawn! You either have faith or you don't. That's all there is to it. You will never find proof of the gospel and that is by celestial design.
