LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **April 23rd, 2019, 9:47 pm**

Part of a balanced breakfast, lol, we follow our leaders when we believe they are right. This information falls in line with the "key that will never rust" comments. Points to ponder.
“You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.” (Elder S. Dilworth Young, First Council of the Seventy, 1945; quoted here, p. 17)
“We have hitherto acted too much as machines, as to following the [Spirit*]. I will confess to my own shame that I have acted contrary to my own judgment many times. I mean hereafter not to demean myself, to not run contrary to my own judgment. …When [President Young] says that the Spirit of the Lord says thus and so, I don’t consider that all we should do is to say let it be so.” (Elder Orson Pratt, 1847, quoted here, cover jacket)
“If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men, and cultivate and cherish in our bosoms the principles of liberty.” (John Taylor, 7 October 1872; “Discourse,” The Deseret News Weekly, volume 21, number 48)
“We can tell when the speakers are moved upon by the Holy Ghost only when we, ourselves, are moved upon by the Holy Ghost. In a way, this completely shifts the responsibility from them to us to determine when they so speak.” (President J. Rueben Clark, 1954 CN-7/31/54)
“President Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel–said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church–that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls–applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints–said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall–that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves…” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 237-38).
“We desire that the brethren and sisters will all feel the responsibility of expressing their feelings in relation to the propositions that may be put before you. We do not want any man or woman who is a member of the Church to violate their conscience. We would like all to vote as they feel, whether for or against. (President Joseph F. Smith, 1902 October General Conference)
We desire that the Latter-day Saints will exercise the liberty wherewith they have been made free by the gospel of Jesus Christ; for they are entitled to know the right from the wrong, to see the truth and draw the line between it and error; and it is their privilege to judge for themselves and to act upon their own free agency with regard to their choice as to sustaining or otherwise those who should exercise the presiding functions among them. We desire the Latter-day Saints to exercise their prerogative, which is, to vote as the Spirit of the Lord prompts them on the measures and the men that may be presented to them.” (President Joseph F. Smith, 1904 October General Conference)
“Men and women should become settled in the truth and rounded in a knowledge of the Gospel, depending upon no person for borrowed light, but trusting only upon the Holy Spirit, who is ever the same.” (President Joseph F. Smith; as quoted by Elder Samuel O. Bennion, April 1941 General Conference, p. 32)
“Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.” (2 Nephi 28:31)

Posted: **April 23rd, 2019, 11:22 pm**

Uh oh, you’ve given the “dissenters” ammunition

Posted: **April 24th, 2019, 12:01 am**

kirtland r.m. wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 9:47 pm Part of a balanced breakfast, lol, we follow our leaders when we believe they are right. This information falls in line with the "key that will never rust" comments. Points to ponder.
“You must work through the Spirit. If that leads you into conflict with the program of the Church, you follow the voice of the Spirit.” (Elder S. Dilworth Young, First Council of the Seventy, 1945; quoted here, p. 17)
“We have hitherto acted too much as machines, as to following the [Spirit*]. I will confess to my own shame that I have acted contrary to my own judgment many times. I mean hereafter not to demean myself, to not run contrary to my own judgment. …When [President Young] says that the Spirit of the Lord says thus and so, I don’t consider that all we should do is to say let it be so.” (Elder Orson Pratt, 1847, quoted here, cover jacket)
“If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men, and cultivate and cherish in our bosoms the principles of liberty.” (John Taylor, 7 October 1872; “Discourse,” The Deseret News Weekly, volume 21, number 48)
“We can tell when the speakers are moved upon by the Holy Ghost only when we, ourselves, are moved upon by the Holy Ghost. In a way, this completely shifts the responsibility from them to us to determine when they so speak.” (President J. Rueben Clark, 1954 CN-7/31/54)
“President Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel–said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church–that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls–applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints–said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall–that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves…” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 237-38).
“We desire that the brethren and sisters will all feel the responsibility of expressing their feelings in relation to the propositions that may be put before you. We do not want any man or woman who is a member of the Church to violate their conscience. We would like all to vote as they feel, whether for or against. (President Joseph F. Smith, 1902 October General Conference)
We desire that the Latter-day Saints will exercise the liberty wherewith they have been made free by the gospel of Jesus Christ; for they are entitled to know the right from the wrong, to see the truth and draw the line between it and error; and it is their privilege to judge for themselves and to act upon their own free agency with regard to their choice as to sustaining or otherwise those who should exercise the presiding functions among them. We desire the Latter-day Saints to exercise their prerogative, which is, to vote as the Spirit of the Lord prompts them on the measures and the men that may be presented to them.” (President Joseph F. Smith, 1904 October General Conference)
“Men and women should become settled in the truth and rounded in a knowledge of the Gospel, depending upon no person for borrowed light, but trusting only upon the Holy Spirit, who is ever the same.” (President Joseph F. Smith; as quoted by Elder Samuel O. Bennion, April 1941 General Conference, p. 32)
“Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.” (2 Nephi 28:31)

Agreed, and if you don’t take it up with your stake president as instructed!

Posted: **April 24th, 2019, 6:37 am**

I vote out Bednar.

Posted: **April 24th, 2019, 10:30 am**

Stahura wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 11:22 pm Uh oh, you’ve given the “dissenters” ammunition

Ha ha, I suppose so. Some in the church kick against the pricks, fighting against true doctrine, in an effort to bend the church to their will. One of many examples of that would be the desire to give the priesthood to everyone, or change doctrine on homosexuality. These quotes are put up not in an effort to do defend that kind of behavior, but other examples related above. If we put the Lord first, have perspective, and are humble and follow rhe spirit we will do fine. Of course, we don’t even need that perspective if we don’t yet understand something, just faith in the Lord and humility, and the desire to do what he wants us to do. But it is the perspective, that does sometimes Help us see something that doesn’t quite set right. I know the “follow the majority of the 12 and the records of the church “ quote is sometimes questioned as an absolutely completely authentic remembering of what the Prophet Joseph actually said, recorded years later. It sounds right to me. It also matches up perfectly with the law of common consent we have in the church.

Posted: **April 24th, 2019, 11:20 am**

Aprhys wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 6:37 am I vote out Bednar.

I vote Bednar in.

He is clearly the Davidic servant.

Plus he is a stud.

Posted: **April 24th, 2019, 11:43 am**

Aprhys wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 6:37 am I vote out Bednar.

Yeah? How come?

Posted: **April 24th, 2019, 12:16 pm**

Stahura wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 11:43 am
Aprhys wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 6:37 am I vote out Bednar.
Yeah? How come?

IMO opinion almost evert word that comes out of his mouth is dripoing with arrogance. Have you seen the fireside he did where he pulled the young boy out of the crowd? If that were my son I would have knockdd Bednars teeth out. I know its just a personal thing but I absolutely despise the guy. If he ever becomes president of the church it will be the end of it.

Posted: **April 24th, 2019, 12:39 pm**

Aprhys wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 12:16 pm
Stahura wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 11:43 am
Aprhys wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 6:37 am I vote out Bednar.
Yeah? How come?
IMO opinion almost evert word that comes out of his mouth is dripoing with arrogance. Have you seen the fireside he did where he pulled the young boy out of the crowd? If that were my son I would have knockdd Bednars teeth out. I know its just a personal thing but I absolutely despise the guy. If he ever becomes president of the church it will be the end of it.

Yes, there are quite a few stories out there about his arrogance. A few different times it’s been pointed out that he seems to purposely stay seated extra long before standing after a Talk given at a Stake Confedence, the implication being that he enjoys the power he has to keep an entire congregation from standing( because of the nonsense about standing when he walks in the room and only standing after he stands.
There’s an example where his wife stood before him and quickly sat back down, looking ashamed.
There’s the story where he supposedly told someone in a Q&A “I AM the scriptures” when they asked about modern revelation vs scriptures.

On the other hand, some of the best and most important talks of the last 2 decades have come from him, so I have mixed feelings about him

Posted: **April 24th, 2019, 1:57 pm**

Aprhys wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 12:16 pm IMO opinion almost evert word that comes out of his mouth is dripoing with arrogance. Have you seen the fireside he did where he pulled the young boy out of the crowd? If that were my son I would have knockdd Bednars teeth out. I know its just a personal thing but I absolutely despise the guy. If he ever becomes president of the church it will be the end of it.

Is that online anywhere? Do you have a link?

Posted: **April 24th, 2019, 2:07 pm**

Aprhys wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 12:16 pm
Stahura wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 11:43 am
Aprhys wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 6:37 am I vote out Bednar.
Yeah? How come?
IMO opinion almost evert word that comes out of his mouth is dripoing with arrogance. Have you seen the fireside he did where he pulled the young boy out of the crowd? If that were my son I would have knockdd Bednars teeth out. I know its just a personal thing but I absolutely despise the guy. If he ever becomes president of the church it will be the end of it.

I don't feel quite as strongly, but there is something about him which doesn't sit right with me. My sister can't stand him.

Not sure if I would vote against him, but I can think of some others I would be tempted to vote down.

Posted: **April 25th, 2019, 5:47 am**

justme wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 11:20 am
Aprhys wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 6:37 am I vote out Bednar.
I vote Bednar in.

He is clearly the Davidic servant.

Plus he is a stud.

The only way that Bednar would usher in the second coming is because the church has dwindled to approximately 10 members due to his arrogance and the Savior has had enough of the nonsense and must set things back in order.

Posted: **April 25th, 2019, 6:24 am**

Bednar -- I've seen the video where he pulled the young boy from the crowd, and it was humiliating. Have you seen where he claims that we have NO homosexual members of the church? Have you seen where he says we don't know what agency means? Have you talked to a BYU-Idaho professor who was there when Bednar was the President? I have, and she says he was extremely dictatorial. But that figures, considering his understanding of agency.....

What about the general conference talk where he praised a young man for breaking off his relationship with a young lady because she didn't remove her extra earring immediately after Hinckley stated that one earring per ear is enough? That was horrible. However, the young lady dodged a bullet, if you ask me.

Here is what he said, exactly:

"Sister Bednar and I are acquainted with a returned missionary who had dated a special young woman for a period of time. This young man cared for the young woman very much and he was desirous of making his relationship with her more serious. He was considering and hoping for engagement and marriage.

"Now this relationship was developing during the precise time that President Hinckley counseled the Relief Society sisters and young women of the church to wear only one earring in each ear. The young man waited patiently over a period of time for the young woman to remove her extra earrings, but she did not take them out.

"This was a valuable piece of information for this young man and he felt unsettled about her non-responsiveness to a Prophet's pleading. For this and other reasons, he ultimately stopped dating the young woman because he was looking for an eternal companion who had the courage to promptly and quietly obey the counsel of the Prophet in all thing and at all times. The young man was quick to observe that the young woman was not quick to observe."

I'm with Robin Hood's sister -- bad vibes.

Good talks? Maybe a good ghostwriter.

Posted: **April 25th, 2019, 6:30 am**

h_p wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 1:57 pm
Aprhys wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 12:16 pm IMO opinion almost evert word that comes out of his mouth is dripoing with arrogance. Have you seen the fireside he did where he pulled the young boy out of the crowd? If that were my son I would have knockdd Bednars teeth out. I know its just a personal thing but I absolutely despise the guy. If he ever becomes president of the church it will be the end of it.
Is that online anywhere? Do you have a link?

Here is the link:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... u4n3-j2PwU

Posted: **April 25th, 2019, 8:25 am**

http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com/20 ... ys-to.html

Posted: **April 25th, 2019, 8:56 am**

Mark wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 8:25 am http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com/20 ... ys-to.html

So tell me this Mark. If this was your son you would be prefectly fine havinf him being humiliated while being videotaped not to mention the highly inappropriate physical contact just because of who is doing it to him? My goodness! If anyone did this to my child I would 1. Use "appropriate" physical means to stop this 2.Demand that the video be destroyed 3. Contact a good attorney because of my actions with 1

Posted: **April 25th, 2019, 12:40 pm**

Aprhys wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 8:56 am
Mark wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 8:25 am http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com/20 ... ys-to.html
So tell me this Mark. If this was your son you would be prefectly fine havinf him being humiliated while being videotaped not to mention the highly inappropriate physical contact just because of who is doing it to him? My goodness! If anyone did this to my child I would 1. Use "appropriate" physical means to stop this 2.Demand that the video be destroyed 3. Contact a good attorney because of my actions with 1

Good grief. Elder Bednar wasn’t trying to humiliate the boy. He was trying to teach with an object lesson to answer his question about the importance of scripture reading. It was not done with any sort of malice or ill intentions. You seem to have a healthy dose of that yourself. Brigham Young’s famous quote seems to fit here perfectly.

“He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool.”

Posted: **April 27th, 2019, 11:44 am**

I recently cast a NAY vote to sustaining some GAs in a stake conference. But I got got outvoted. I think that's the way it will be for anyone who votes in the negative for the foreseeable future.

Posted: **April 27th, 2019, 4:50 pm**

Believing Joseph wrote: ↑April 27th, 2019, 11:44 am I recently cast a NAY vote to sustaining some GAs in a stake conference.

I'm curious, have you received any negative repercussions for doing this? Such as being called in for a talk with your bishop/stake president?

By the way, welcome to the forum, Believing Joseph!

Posted: **April 27th, 2019, 5:25 pm**

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 27th, 2019, 4:50 pm
I'm curious, have you received any negative repercussions for doing this? Such as being called in for a talk with your bishop/stake president?

No negative repercussions. They actually called me to be pianist a few weeks later - I doubt they would have called me to teach doctrine though

LDS Freedom Forum

“If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Taylor

“If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Taylor

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl

Re: “If we have presidents or apostles or anybody that we do not like, let us vote them out, and be free men". John Tayl