LDS Freedom Forum

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 1:36 am When I was young I always thought Scouts were a bunch of sissy's.
I was in the Boy's Brigade. We did a lot of marching and drill practice, played bugles and drums, went to church, played sport, went camping etc.
The Scouts were all "dib dib dib" and badge sewing.

[email protected] wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 10:56 pm I was watching an interview with Jordan Peterson earlier and he is very critical of our feminized society and the identity politics of the left. One of the things he mentioned was that as you try to feminize young men they tend to react harshly to that and will begin to embrace extreme behavior and collectively gravitate to extreme ideologies such as facism. It was interesting that he suggestes young men desperately need encouragement, not necessarily a lot, but a little and they're not getting it anymore in today's society.

And then I think about the Church and how we are abandoning involvement in the BSA and how much our young men are going to lose without that involvement. We are not investing enough resources in taking care of our young men, not as a Church and not as a society and this will have devastating consequences for everyone if this is not corrected. Worse still, not only are we not investing enough in our young men, but they are actively under attack for who they are and what they ought to be by society as a whole and the Church I think needs to do more to combat that. I know we need to invest in our young women as well, but it does take more resources to properly form young men than young women. As I said the consequences are a lot more severe if you have large numbers of mal adjusted young men around than young women. As I've also said before I believe our young men are the most serious threat to Satan and his plans than any other group in society and that's why they've been singled out and targeted for destruction. If you destroy the young men, you destroy the society.

[email protected] wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 10:56 pm We are not investing enough resources in taking care of our young men, not as a Church and not as a society and this will have devastating consequences for everyone

Vision wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 7:46 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 10:56 pm We are not investing enough resources in taking care of our young men, not as a Church and not as a society and this will have devastating consequences for everyone

It's not the Churches job, or Societies job to grow young men, it's the families job. Parents have out sourced the responsibility to parent to Churches, BSA, Sports, and a million other things designed to destroy the family structure. Social pressure only adds to the guilt complex parents go through if their children aren't in dance, comp league sports etc. It's all a clever, subtle false paradigm attack on the family.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 7:50 am

Vision wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 7:46 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 10:56 pm We are not investing enough resources in taking care of our young men, not as a Church and not as a society and this will have devastating consequences for everyone

It's not the Churches job, or Societies job to grow young men, it's the families job. Parents have out sourced the responsibility to parent to Churches, BSA, Sports, and a million other things designed to destroy the family structure. Social pressure only adds to the guilt complex parents go through if their children aren't in dance, comp league sports etc. It's all a clever, subtle false paradigm attack on the family.

I've heard of this culture of putting kids in dance, competitive league sports, cheer competitions, etc. I've never seen the point of any of that stuff, and yet I'm sure there are people looking down their noses at me because I don't ferry my kids around to ten conflicting activities. Where did this come from?

Yahtzee wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 11:55 pm Church scouts was a joke! I love what the BSA offers boys when done right, but very few wards do it right. I'm glad the church is getting out. It was watering down scouting and no men in our ward seem to want to do it with the boys anyway.
My son does about 3 service projects with the YM every year. But plays basketball at least 20 Wednesdays/year. I'm so tired of basketball. Nothing helps a young man grow into a good man like learning to serve others. I really hope the new program emphasizes their spiritual development instead of playing games once a week.

gigarath24 wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 7:53 am I was the secretary for the Young Men's Presidency until I moved recently and I can tell you that I have every bit of confidence in our church leader's decision to disassociate the chruch from the BSA. What I think that the OP is missing is that the BSA is going to be replaced with a church youth program that will better assist our young men. My experience with working with the Young Men has been that the church empowers and supports boys to become men. Within my time as being a member of the church the Young Men have been given more responsibility, most notably in the temple. The Aaronic Priesthood is now given to many boys as young as 11, and the church is a refreshing force for male empowerment and recognition. I will not deny that the world is become more feminine at the expense of boys in today's society, but to say that the church doesn't do enough, or to say that they aren't doing everything to support, and encourage boys to become men simply isn't true. There are many reasons why I sustain the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators but the changes that have taken place within the programs for our Youth is most assuredly the strongest case for the truth claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Far from teaching girls to be men, and boys to be women. The church has always, does now, and I have full faith that in the future will stand for truth, especially in the divinely inspired gender roles that our Father in Heaven has set forth.

[email protected] wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 10:56 pm I was watching an interview with Jordan Peterson earlier and he is very critical of our feminized society and the identity politics of the left. One of the things he mentioned was that as you try to feminize young men they tend to react harshly to that and will begin to embrace extreme behavior and collectively gravitate to extreme ideologies such as facism. It was interesting that he suggestes young men desperately need encouragement, not necessarily a lot, but a little and they're not getting it anymore in today's society.

And then I think about the Church and how we are abandoning involvement in the BSA and how much our young men are going to lose without that involvement. We are not investing enough resources in taking care of our young men, not as a Church and not as a society and this will have devastating consequences for everyone if this is not corrected. Worse still, not only are we not investing enough in our young men, but they are actively under attack for who they are and what they ought to be by society as a whole and the Church I think needs to do more to combat that. I know we need to invest in our young women as well, but it does take more resources to properly form young men than young women. As I said the consequences are a lot more severe if you have large numbers of mal adjusted young men around than young women. As I've also said before I believe our young men are the most serious threat to Satan and his plans than any other group in society and that's why they've been singled out and targeted for destruction. If you destroy the young men, you destroy the society.

Vision wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 7:46 amIt's not the Churches job, or Societies job to grow young men, it's the families job. Parents have out sourced the responsibility to parent to Churches, BSA, Sports, and a million other things designed to destroy the family structure. Social pressure only adds to the guilt complex parents go through if their children aren't in dance, comp league sports etc. It's all a clever, subtle false paradigm attack on the family.

[email protected] wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 10:56 pm I was watching an interview with Jordan Peterson earlier and he is very critical of our feminized society and the identity politics of the left. One of the things he mentioned was that as you try to feminize young men they tend to react harshly to that and will begin to embrace extreme behavior and collectively gravitate to extreme ideologies such as facism. It was interesting that he suggestes young men desperately need encouragement, not necessarily a lot, but a little and they're not getting it anymore in today's society.

And then I think about the Church and how we are abandoning involvement in the BSA and how much our young men are going to lose without that involvement. We are not investing enough resources in taking care of our young men, not as a Church and not as a society and this will have devastating consequences for everyone if this is not corrected. Worse still, not only are we not investing enough in our young men, but they are actively under attack for who they are and what they ought to be by society as a whole and the Church I think needs to do more to combat that. I know we need to invest in our young women as well, but it does take more resources to properly form young men than young women. As I said the consequences are a lot more severe if you have large numbers of mal adjusted young men around than young women. As I've also said before I believe our young men are the most serious threat to Satan and his plans than any other group in society and that's why they've been singled out and targeted for destruction. If you destroy the young men, you destroy the society.

Juliet wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 9:01 am I have been learning a lot about chickens and starting it as a new hobby. I am amazed how many things chickens can figure out that humans can't. They have gender roles, the females are allowed to rest and get broody, the roosters protect their flock with pride.

I am giving my side from my experience as a young woman, so naturally it will be biased toward the difficulties of women.

I was taught feminism from the world. I only saw women as mothers in the church. It creates a conflict. We are supposed to be mothers, we want to be mothers, but feminism tells us we are horrible and lazy for depending on and needing a man. Yet, ask any woman who earns more than her husband and if she is ok with that. Women want to be provided for, is that so bad?

Now that women value career more than home making and motherhood, there is nothing left but completely devalue men and kick them to the curb. But this has been in the work for decades as the dark side to feminism prepares to destroy the social order.

Recently I have realized that if it were true that women could do both, motherhood and career, then why do women get abortions? Abortions are proof that women absolutely cannot do both. So how about we go back to letting men provide so women can reproduce.

I am grateful for women being able to have all kinds of education and career experience. That helps us be better mothers. As a woman, if I want to learn about cars, I ought to be able to have that blessing.

But we can get a lot of work experience and education from ages 13 to 18. After that, motherhood ought to be seen as an exemplary position for a woman to take. Even if not able to have a baby, someone ought to be doing home making, since that encompasses the emotional well being of the family.

We don't just eat and sleep. We want to have experiences in life where we feel great. David Snyder said just about everything we do in life is to get a desired feeling. So, having someone in charge of making an environment where good feelings are common is probably more important than food and shelter. And once society starts valuing emotional wealth over money, then maybe we can again put physical well being secondary as a support to emtoional well being. Because you can have all the money in the world and still commit suicide from lack of emotional well being. And not because physical well being is unimportant, but because once you have the kingdom of God, all other things are added to you. Once your heart is well, you will have the energy to get your physical needs met. Time yourself, how long does it take to do the dishes when you feel miserable verses when you are happy and there is the proof.

Satan is the king of suffering and it is through suffering he leads away our hearts to do wickedly, to steal, to use greed to compensate the lack of inner well being.

It's a coordinated attack against both genders' roles and it works together to bring suffering.

True feminism, ought to value the role given to women by nature. But that is the opposite of what it does, and women I think in particular are lead astray because they are being taught to dishonor their femininity. Luckily our church still promotes gender roles. But that is not even the relief society culture any more since more women are single than married.

Anyway, how can you honor masculinity when you don't honor femininity?

[email protected] wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 10:56 pm I was watching an interview with Jordan Peterson earlier and he is very critical of our feminized society and the identity politics of the left. One of the things he mentioned was that as you try to feminize young men they tend to react harshly to that and will begin to embrace extreme behavior and collectively gravitate to extreme ideologies such as facism. It was interesting that he suggestes young men desperately need encouragement, not necessarily a lot, but a little and they're not getting it anymore in today's society.

And then I think about the Church and how we are abandoning involvement in the BSA and how much our young men are going to lose without that involvement. We are not investing enough resources in taking care of our young men, not as a Church and not as a society and this will have devastating consequences for everyone if this is not corrected. Worse still, not only are we not investing enough in our young men, but they are actively under attack for who they are and what they ought to be by society as a whole and the Church I think needs to do more to combat that. I know we need to invest in our young women as well, but it does take more resources to properly form young men than young women. As I said the consequences are a lot more severe if you have large numbers of mal adjusted young men around than young women. As I've also said before I believe our young men are the most serious threat to Satan and his plans than any other group in society and that's why they've been singled out and targeted for destruction. If you destroy the young men, you destroy the society.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 7:24 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 1:36 am When I was young I always thought Scouts were a bunch of sissy's.
I was in the Boy's Brigade. We did a lot of marching and drill practice, played bugles and drums, went to church, played sport, went camping etc.
The Scouts were all "dib dib dib" and badge sewing.

What's a "dib dib dib"? Is that like a British thing?

I hated scouts. Our YM president hates scouts. He just called a new 1st counselor, and surprise surprise! He hates scouts too. We overstayed our welcome. The BSA is only interested in generating donations and being PC now.

mtm411 wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 11:47 am I disagree that it takes more resources to help young men develop than young women. They both need as many resources, but you don't have to take from one to give to another. It's possible to give both what they need.

In fact, in our ward, and in my extended family it's much more likely to be the young women leaving than the young men. The young men have checkpoints like missions, so people are more likely to come to their priesthood ordinations and farewells, etc. The young women are pretty much ignored until they get married, but for many of them, it's too late by then.

Gage wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 12:09 pm

mtm411 wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 11:47 am I disagree that it takes more resources to help young men develop than young women. They both need as many resources, but you don't have to take from one to give to another. It's possible to give both what they need.

In fact, in our ward, and in my extended family it's much more likely to be the young women leaving than the young men. The young men have checkpoints like missions, so people are more likely to come to their priesthood ordinations and farewells, etc. The young women are pretty much ignored until they get married, but for many of them, it's too late by then.

Mention anything against the pure, innocent, "do no wrong" young women of the church and you risk being stoned.