LDS Freedom Forum

Thinker wrote: ↑April 28th, 2019, 8:48 pm Eddie,
I prioritize Christ’s teachings - from his life - above other conflicting lds scripture. Christ plainly taught “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

He also taught temples should not be used to make money - but that’s ignored in favor of “new and improved” Mormonism.

14 ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Christ taught that the rich were unlikely to enter the kingdom of God because they hoard their gifts and don’t share with the poor - & our church doesn’t share a cent of tithes with the poor (breaking Christ’s greatest commandments & the law of tithing in Deuteronomy 14:28-29).

If we were to be honest in name, in how the church is run - what is really prioritized - it should be named, “The Church of Mormon Leaders.” There’s attempt to APPEAR to prioritize Christ by using and demanding everyone use his name - but in important matters - used in vain.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 1:18 pm My biggest problem with disciplinary councils is the inconsistency. It totally depends on your particular local leadership whether you'll get ex'd or not, and that doesn't seem right. For example, I personally know several married (and sealed in the temple) members who have committed full-on sexual adultery (as opposed to the 'in your heart' kind) who have never been excommunicated or even had a council called. I know others who have committed the same sin and they were ex'd right away. Totally depends on the bishop/stake president - way too arbitrary, IMO.

I know members who proclaim loudly and proudly that SSM is ordained of God and that it should be allowed in the Church/temples - going directly against the doctrine and teachings of God and his scriptures. No councils for them. On the other hand, I know people who have quietly taught what some would consider 'heretical' teachings to their close friends (or who they thought were their close friends) - not publicly, not on social media, not in church (unlike the pro-SSM members) - who have been excommunicated for it.

Both of these groups are people I personally know, and their situations, firsthand. It just seems very disorganized and arbitrary and whatever any particular bishop/stake president is feeling/thinking at the moment - and that's a pretty serious thing, IMO. Luckily, the Lord trumps any/all bishops/stake presidents (and all earthly leaders), and he will make right all that was done wrong (in either regard).

eddie wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:46 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑April 28th, 2019, 8:48 pm Eddie,
I prioritize Christ’s teachings - from his life - above other conflicting lds scripture. Christ plainly taught “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

He also taught temples should not be used to make money - but that’s ignored in favor of “new and improved” Mormonism.

14 ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Christ taught that the rich were unlikely to enter the kingdom of God because they hoard their gifts and don’t share with the poor - & our church doesn’t share a cent of tithes with the poor (breaking Christ’s greatest commandments & the law of tithing in Deuteronomy 14:28-29).

If we were to be honest in name, in how the church is run - what is really prioritized - it should be named, “The Church of Mormon Leaders.” There’s attempt to APPEAR to prioritize Christ by using and demanding everyone use his name - but in important matters - used in vain.

• “Beware of the thief on the street that’s after your purse, but also beware of the thief in your mind that’s after your promise.”
  -Jim Rohn

Thinker wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 2:58 pm

eddie wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 12:46 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑April 28th, 2019, 8:48 pm Eddie,
I prioritize Christ’s teachings - from his life - above other conflicting lds scripture. Christ plainly taught “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

He also taught temples should not be used to make money - but that’s ignored in favor of “new and improved” Mormonism.

14 ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Christ taught that the rich were unlikely to enter the kingdom of God because they hoard their gifts and don’t share with the poor - & our church doesn’t share a cent of tithes with the poor (breaking Christ’s greatest commandments & the law of tithing in Deuteronomy 14:28-29).

If we were to be honest in name, in how the church is run - what is really prioritized - it should be named, “The Church of Mormon Leaders.” There’s attempt to APPEAR to prioritize Christ by using and demanding everyone use his name - but in important matters - used in vain.

Eddie,
Maybe one of the reasons why groups and religious leaders are chastised while we are commanded not to “cast stones” is because herd mentality tends to be insane (think of mobs as the extreme) & unthinkingly do in a mob what they’d never do individually. And, religious leaders - back then and now - tend to think they are beyond reproach so they get away with things most people wouldn’t get away with.

As prophesied in Mormon, we, as a church are so obse$$ed with MONEY, that we even misinterpret parables to justify our financial obsession. The parable of the talents is not about money. Think about Christ telling the rich to give it all to the poor, and how he was homeless. No, it’s about something much more precious and eternally significant than money - and that is: potential.

• “Beware of the thief on the street that’s after your purse, but also beware of the thief in your mind that’s after your promise.”
  -Jim Rohn

eddie wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 3:52 pmI do not agree that the Church is obsessed with money, it’s called prospering.

• “For behold, ye do love money, & your substance, & your fine apparel, & the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor & the needy, the sick & the afflicted. O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies – because of the praise of the world?” –Mormon 8:37-38

Spoiler

“There must needs be opposition in all things” - including the church. I love the amazing sense of community and encouragement in being better people. There are 2 main harmful evils that have crept into the church. One is cult-mentality - like considering leaders infallible and looking more to them than to Christ. The other is how finances are handled.

Financial irresponsibility (which contribute to debt, bankruptcy, poverty and related suffering) is undeniable. Changing scripture from what it states (increase) to mean “income” to get more money, is not of Christ. The reason God commanded tithe be based on increase is shown in the following example:

• 2 men earn the exact same income amount.
  1 man is the sole provider of a family of 7 and after paying bills has no increase left.
  2nd man lives with his parents who pay all his bills, so all of his income is increase.
  Yet, the church demand$ the $ame amount from each man - thereby causing the 1st family to be poor. Christ was about alleviating poverty and suffering - not causing more.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29 (conveniently ignored in lds curriculums) states that tithing collectors are to give at least 1/3 of TITHES to those in need. Christ asked those who can, to give much more.

While we are often pressured and shamed into giving “honest tithes,” church leaders keep money dark and secret, though Oaks did admit no tithes go to the poor. Funds intended for the poor go to the corporate empire of mormon leaders and we have no clue or say in how it’s spent. We do know the church had some elaborate malls built, and a list of greedy wordly companies using the name of Jesus Christ in vain. Meanwhile, about 1,000,000,000 of our brothers and sisters are starving. Who do TITHES belong to? God. And how do we love God? By loving the least of these.

Grand ribon-cutting opening by for another mall (at least 2 now) built using the name of Jesus Christ...






Even if you designated fast offerings - the church leaders now say it’s their money and they can use it as they want...

Thinker wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 10:30 pm If you can’t see how the church has gone astray financially, you’re in denial. Mormon prophesied as much of our church...

• “For behold, ye do love money, & your substance, & your fine apparel, & the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor & the needy, the sick & the afflicted. O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies – because of the praise of the world?” –Mormon 8:37-38

Spoiler

“There must needs be opposition in all things” - including the church. I love the amazing sense of community and encouragement in being better people. There are 2 main harmful evils that have crept into the church. One is cult-mentality - like considering leaders infallible and looking more to them than to Christ. The other is how finances are handled.

Financial irresponsibility (which contribute to debt, bankruptcy, poverty and related suffering) is undeniable. Changing scripture from what it states (increase) to mean “income” to get more money, is not of Christ. The reason God commanded tithe be based on increase is shown in the following example:

• 2 men earn the exact same income amount.
  1 man is the sole provider of a family of 7 and after paying bills has no increase left.
  2nd man lives with his parents who pay all his bills, so all of his income is increase.
  Yet, the church demand$ the $ame amount from each man - thereby causing the 1st family to be poor. Christ was about alleviating poverty and suffering - not causing more.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29 (conveniently ignored in lds curriculums) states that tithing collectors are to give at least 1/3 of TITHES to those in need. Christ asked those who can, to give much more.

While we are often pressured and shamed into giving “honest tithes,” church leaders keep money dark and secret, though Oaks did admit no tithes go to the poor. Funds intended for the poor go to the corporate empire of mormon leaders and we have no clue or say in how it’s spent. We do know the church had some elaborate malls built, and a list of greedy wordly companies using the name of Jesus Christ in vain. Meanwhile, about 1,000,000,000 of our brothers and sisters are starving. Who do TITHES belong to? God. And how do we love God? By loving the least of these.

[This Church is not being directed by the wisdom of men. I know that. The power and influence of Almighty God are directing His Church./color] Ezra Taft Benson

I take no heed to the wisdom of man, the audacity to assume to know and profess a better way than a Prophet of God. Declaring the Church has gone astray financially, I only wish I was as brilliant as the men who by revelation handle the finances of the Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. The best part of it all, they are not in the least influenced by the wisdom of men. They continue to build, invest, give humanitarian aid, financial aid, etc. etc.
Do the critics hold themselves to the same standard of which they proclaim could be done better their way? A person attains wisdom by following God's counsel, without God's help there is no true wisdom. 2 Nephi 9:28

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 29th, 2019, 4:30 pm I have been involved in these and my opinion is that people are treated way nicer than they should be. A lot of them should just be kicked out and sent a letter of goodbye without bothering with a council, IMO. Wasting time trying to help a person who does not give one whit or care about following the Lord and His Prophets really gets under my skin and I have a hard time seeing why we pussyfoot around with them. That being said, I do know that I am a very impatient and intolerant person who does not like to put up with a lot of nonsense and lack of dedication. I went through a few periods of inactivity because I was certain I could not live up to Church standards. Those standards include being very patient with people who need a lot of help and love. It gets on my nerves, but I know that I feel the Spirit directing this way of doing things. When I read some of the comments above about the Church being too strict and who do they think they are and blah-blah-blah, I realize those people have no idea what they are talking about, they are ignorant of the actual process and the fact that the Lord makes great efforts to keep people in and help get them involved, however, in most cases action HAS to be taken, not because Church authorities want to but because they get pushed into a corner and literally have no choice. That is the fact about this that the ignorant will never know, since they have no real experience with which to base their critical remarks on.

harakim wrote: ↑May 1st, 2019, 2:26 pm I find I'm least patient when I'm low energy. Maybe you ought to start an exercise routine or stop drinking soda or something.

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑May 1st, 2019, 7:55 pm

harakim wrote: ↑May 1st, 2019, 2:26 pm I find I'm least patient when I'm low energy. Maybe you ought to start an exercise routine or stop drinking soda or something.

I feel that the only thing that can increase patience is practice, which requires a level of awareness of what you are working on.