LDS Freedom Forum

Is it possible to lust after your wife? What’s the difference between visual stimulation and lust if they are the same chemically? Do we have to overcome lust in marriage to progress spiritually? How would one go about doing this? Is visual attraction/chemistry wrong/debased/purely carnal? Can someone love someone’s physical soul without lusting after it and still achieve God’s purposes for creation?

Discuss

Benaishtart wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 9:52 am Is it possible to lust after your wife? What’s the difference between visual stimulation and lust if they are the same chemically? Do we have to overcome lust in marriage to progress spiritually? How would one go about doing this? Is visual attraction/chemistry wrong/debased/purely carnal? Can someone love someone’s physical soul without lusting after it and still achieve God’s purposes for creation?

Discuss

First define lust in regards to sin.

Well technically lust is a chemical rush of dopamine that makes one feel hot 🥵. It’s caused by visual stimuli. I’m just wondering if some on this forum believe you can experience that chemical rush while still feeling the spirit at the same time.

Having appropriate sexual feelings toward your spouse. Those God-given feelings help strengthen, fortify, and unify a marriage. But it is possible to have inappropriate feelings toward a spouse. If we seek fulfillment only for our own sake, or only to gratify our own cravings or feelings, we might be slipping into lustful desires, and that can be damaging to a marriage relationship. The key to seeking and maintaining appropriate physical intimacy in a marriage is pure and loving intent.

Yes. It’s possible for a man to look at his wife as nothing more than an object to please him. (The opposite can happen as well)

If it's your wife, then you are giving because you have married her and are taking care of her. If you are not married, then you are taking. The physical sensation is more or less neutral, whether you use it in a giving or taking sense is where it becomes a context of love or lust.

Being in the right environment, (marriage) will help men become service to others in the long run.

Juliet wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 10:09 am If it's your wife, then you are giving because you have married her and are taking care of her. If you are not married, then you are taking. The physical sensation is more or less neutral, whether you use it in a giving or taking sense is where it becomes a context of love or lust.

Being in the right environment, (marriage) will help men become service to others in the long run.

I like this perspective...never heard it put quite like that!

YES

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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51332&p=927998#p927998

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 10:02 am Having appropriate sexual feelings toward your spouse. Those God-given feelings help strengthen, fortify, and unify a marriage. But it is possible to have inappropriate feelings toward a spouse. If we seek fulfillment only for our own sake, or only to gratify our own cravings or feelings, we might be slipping into lustful desires, and that can be damaging to a marriage relationship. The key to seeking and maintaining appropriate physical intimacy in a marriage is pure and loving intent.

You really should cite the source of your comments when the words are not your own - give credit where it's due.

https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2016/1 ... t?lang=eng

Stahura wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 10:06 am Yes. It’s possible for a man to look at his wife as nothing more than an object to please him. (The opposite can happen as well)

Agreed. Lust in any form, toward any thing or any person, is a sin.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 11:44 am

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 10:02 am Having appropriate sexual feelings toward your spouse. Those God-given feelings help strengthen, fortify, and unify a marriage. But it is possible to have inappropriate feelings toward a spouse. If we seek fulfillment only for our own sake, or only to gratify our own cravings or feelings, we might be slipping into lustful desires, and that can be damaging to a marriage relationship. The key to seeking and maintaining appropriate physical intimacy in a marriage is pure and loving intent.

You really should cite the source of your comments when the words are not your own - give credit where it's due.

https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2016/1 ... t?lang=eng

Touche!

If you do not crave your spouse something is really, really wrong.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 11:45 am

Stahura wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 10:06 am Yes. It’s possible for a man to look at his wife as nothing more than an object to please him. (The opposite can happen as well)

Agreed. Lust in any form, toward any thing or any person, is a sin.

Nope. One can lust for someone they love, and also desire to bring pleasure for them. Lust can involve two people madly in love with each other. Nothing is sinful about that.

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:06 pm If you do not crave your spouse something is really, really wrong.

Do you crave her like a porno?

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:08 pm

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:06 pm If you do not crave your spouse something is really, really wrong.

Do you crave her like a porno?

That is a really dumb question.

And how can one have feelings for a video? Do you believe a man or women who are really into their spouse are anything akin to porn?

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:11 pm

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:08 pm

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:06 pm If you do not crave your spouse something is really, really wrong.

Do you crave her like a porno?

That is a really dumb question.

And how can one have feelings for a video? Do you believe a man or women who are really into their spouse are anything akin to porn?

I think that went way over your head.

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:07 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 11:45 am

Stahura wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 10:06 am Yes. It’s possible for a man to look at his wife as nothing more than an object to please him. (The opposite can happen as well)

Agreed. Lust in any form, toward any thing or any person, is a sin.

Nope. One can lust for someone they love, and also desire to bring pleasure for them. Lust can involve two people madly in love with each other. Nothing is sinful about that.

Here you go bud

https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2016/1 ... t?lang=eng

Having appropriate sexual feelings toward your spouse. Those God-given feelings help strengthen, fortify, and unify a marriage. But it is possible to have inappropriate feelings toward a spouse. If we seek fulfillment only for our own sake, or only to gratify our own cravings or feelings, we might be slipping into lustful desires, and that can be damaging to a marriage relationship. The key to seeking and maintaining appropriate physical intimacy in a marriage is pure and loving intent.

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:07 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 11:45 am

Stahura wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 10:06 am Yes. It’s possible for a man to look at his wife as nothing more than an object to please him. (The opposite can happen as well)

Agreed. Lust in any form, toward any thing or any person, is a sin.

Nope. One can lust for someone they love, and also desire to bring pleasure for them. Lust can involve two people madly in love with each other. Nothing is sinful about that.

I think maybe we have different definitions of lust. I can't find any positive, righteous uses of the word "lust" in the scriptures, can you? If so, maybe I'll reconsider. Here's what I found in our scriptures doing a search of the word "lust" - https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/lust?lang=eng

Lust
See also Adulterer; Carnal Mind; Chastity; Covet; Desire; Fornication; Homosexual Behavior; Pleasure; Sensuality; Sexual Immorality

tempted God … by asking meat for their lust, Ps. 78:18.

They were not estranged from their lust, Ps. 78:30.

I gave them up unto their own hearts’ lust, Ps. 81:12.

lusted exceedingly in the wilderness, Ps. 106:14.

Lust not after her beauty in thine heart, Prov. 6:25.

looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery, Matt. 5:28 (3 Ne. 12:28; D&C 42:23; 63:13, 16).

lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, Mark 4:19.

lusts of your father ye will do, John 8:44.

burned in their lust one toward another; men with men, Rom. 1:27.

flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof, Rom. 13:14.

we should not lust after evil things, 1 Cor. 10:6.

ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh, Gal. 5:16.

we all had our conversation … in the lusts of our flesh, Eph. 2:3.

corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, Eph. 4:22.

Not in the lust of concupiscence, 1 Thes. 4:5.

foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men, 1 Tim. 6:9.

Flee also youthful lusts, 2 Tim. 2:22.

women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 2 Tim. 3:6.

after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, 2 Tim. 4:3.

denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, Titus 2:12.

deceived, serving divers lusts, Titus 3:3.

drawn away of his own lust, James 1:14.

whence come wars … come they not … of your lusts, James 4:1.

ye may consume it upon your lusts, James 4:3.

according to the former lusts in your ignorance, 1 Pet. 1:14.

abstain from fleshly lusts, 1 Pet. 2:11.

no longer should live … in the flesh to the lusts of men, 1 Pet. 4:2.

corruption that is in the world through lust, 2 Pet. 1:4.

walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, 2 Pet. 2:10.

scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 2 Pet. 3:3.

lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes … is not of the Father, 1 Jn. 2:16.

complainers, walking after their own lusts, Jude 1:16.

fruits that thy soul lusted after, Rev. 18:14.

Laban saw our property … did lust after it, 1 Ne. 3:25.

those who seek the lusts of the flesh, 1 Ne. 22:23.

warning them against fornication and lasciviousness, Jacob 3:12.

go no more after the lusts of your eyes, Alma 39:9.

fall into the works of darkness, and lasciviousness, Alma 45:12.

nor murders, nor any manner of lasciviousness, 4 Ne. 1:16.

ask not, that ye may consume it on your lusts, Morm. 9:28.

follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, D&C 3:4.

cease from all your … lustful desires, D&C 88:121.

there were … lustful and covetous desires among them, D&C 101:6.

See also Prov. 5:3; 7:10; Alma 38:12.

Nothing beats a vibrant, mutually fulfilling, active, loving sex life between a committed, faithful married husband and wife - but lust has no place in such a marriage, IMO.

Define the words "lust" and "desire."

One can get caught up in etymology and such but the fact remains that lust, desire and passion are interwoven and generally interchangeable in most people's vocabularies.

Here you go bud

https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2016/1 ... t?lang=eng

Having appropriate sexual feelings toward your spouse. Those God-given feelings help strengthen, fortify, and unify a marriage. But it is possible to have inappropriate feelings toward a spouse. If we seek fulfillment only for our own sake, or only to gratify our own cravings or feelings, we might be slipping into lustful desires, and that can be damaging to a marriage relationship. The key to seeking and maintaining appropriate physical intimacy in a marriage is pure and loving intent.

Define "inappropriate." What is meant here "bud?"

If "lustful desires" means selfishness then yes, that can be damaging. There are people who manipulate their loved ones, for instance to get them not to want to have additional children, and that is wrong. However, physical desire itself is perfectly fine.

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:56 pm

Here you go bud

https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2016/1 ... t?lang=eng

Having appropriate sexual feelings toward your spouse. Those God-given feelings help strengthen, fortify, and unify a marriage. But it is possible to have inappropriate feelings toward a spouse. If we seek fulfillment only for our own sake, or only to gratify our own cravings or feelings, we might be slipping into lustful desires, and that can be damaging to a marriage relationship. The key to seeking and maintaining appropriate physical intimacy in a marriage is pure and loving intent.

Define "inappropriate." What is meant here "bud?"

If "lustful desires" means selfishness then yes, that can be damaging. There are people who manipulate their loved ones, for instance to get them not to want to have additional children, and that is wrong. However, physical desire itself is perfectly fine.

Lust is never used in a non-carnal context.
Lust Bad Fiannan.

Lust resulted in polygamy, and it would again if it wasn’t explicitly forbidden today.

Stahura wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:58 pm

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:56 pm

Here you go bud

https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2016/1 ... t?lang=eng

Having appropriate sexual feelings toward your spouse. Those God-given feelings help strengthen, fortify, and unify a marriage. But it is possible to have inappropriate feelings toward a spouse. If we seek fulfillment only for our own sake, or only to gratify our own cravings or feelings, we might be slipping into lustful desires, and that can be damaging to a marriage relationship. The key to seeking and maintaining appropriate physical intimacy in a marriage is pure and loving intent.

Define "inappropriate." What is meant here "bud?"

If "lustful desires" means selfishness then yes, that can be damaging. There are people who manipulate their loved ones, for instance to get them not to want to have additional children, and that is wrong. However, physical desire itself is perfectly fine.

Lust is never used in a non-carnal context.
Lust Bad Fiannan.

Check this out. A basic thesaurus with the word "lust"

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/lust

Under synonyms you find both positive and negative words (mostly negative to be sure) that have very similar meanings. However, if you look under the antonyms (opposite meanings) you find terms like "hatred, "disgust" and "apathy."

Never used in a non-carnal context?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lust " a : an intense longing : craving a lust to succeed
b : enthusiasm, eagerness admired his lust for life"

The word lust never even existed until about 1000 years ago so it has to be derived from more ancient words and meanings. It would be interesting to examine the original context as contained in the scriptures.

Stahura wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 1:04 pm Lust resulted in polygamy, and it would again if it wasn’t explicitly forbidden today.

You mean when we as a Church lived a higher order and calling than we do today?

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 1:08 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:58 pm

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 12:56 pm

Here you go bud

https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2016/1 ... t?lang=eng

Having appropriate sexual feelings toward your spouse. Those God-given feelings help strengthen, fortify, and unify a marriage. But it is possible to have inappropriate feelings toward a spouse. If we seek fulfillment only for our own sake, or only to gratify our own cravings or feelings, we might be slipping into lustful desires, and that can be damaging to a marriage relationship. The key to seeking and maintaining appropriate physical intimacy in a marriage is pure and loving intent.

Define "inappropriate." What is meant here "bud?"

If "lustful desires" means selfishness then yes, that can be damaging. There are people who manipulate their loved ones, for instance to get them not to want to have additional children, and that is wrong. However, physical desire itself is perfectly fine.

Lust is never used in a non-carnal context.
Lust Bad Fiannan.

Check this out. A basic thesaurus with the word "lust"

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/lust

Under synonyms you find both positive and negative words (mostly negative to be sure) that have very similar meanings. However, if you look under the antonyms (opposite meanings) you find terms like "hatred, "disgust" and "apathy."

Never used in a non-carnal context?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lust " a : an intense longing : craving a lust to succeed
b : enthusiasm, eagerness admired his lust for life"

The word lust never even existed until about 1000 years ago so it has to be derived from more ancient words and meanings. It would be interesting to examine the original context as contained in the scriptures.

It should have been implied that I’m talking about within the church. I don’t really care how the world uses it.