LDS Freedom Forum

I guess you could say other emotions and psychological sensations are evil, such as the flight or fight parasympathetic nervous system response, or anger, etc. I personally don't agree. A spiritual person who hasn't come to terms with their physical reality is not very grounded. They can have high ideals but you have to be able to ground them in real life.

I think Jesus descended below all things and certainly understands all of our carnal sides. And so, we can come to Him for understanding.

My understanding is that God created us male and female with sexual feelings to bless us.

I believe that part of becoming worthy of the Celestial Kingdom is learning how to get as much possible joy out of the marriage relationship as possible.

I do think using sex to try to control your spouse is evil, whether by demanding it or denying it, and the issue of control and dominance can lead to harmful behavior that needs to be pruned with cognition and sense. It would seem a good marriage would include people who enjoy blessing each other instead of trying to control the other.

The longer I am married the more I see how God created us male and female to bless us, with more happiness then we can even imagine. We just need to follow God's commandments and everything will work out.

It really is entertaining those feelings in the wrong context that brings sorrow.

We all need to be loved. Apart from the Savior, our spouse is the closest thing we will find to Godly love in this life.

I have found answers by contemplating why I feel a certain way more than should I feel a certain way. It turns out there is usually always a logical basis for our feelings.

I tend to side with nature. Our feelings are good. Even the fight and flight and the anger emotions are incredibly important. I don't think humanity would survive very long without them. But with them, they can be used incorrectly and cause hurt. So, we can balance them and learn from them. But overall, I believe every part of us, including the parts that feel sexual, are good. Turn those off and we will have a very dull society. I believe the same energy that causes physical attraction is the same energy that creates scientific breakthroughs and genius entrepreneurship. Satan will never get to understand these feelings, except to use them to create death and sorrow. But God can give us the keys to handling these feelings to create miracles.

Life is not always a church service. Yes, church and sacred spiritual things are an important part of who we are. But God has given us bodies and this planet to have physical experiences also, to help us be vibrant and whole and happy. Denying the physical pleasures of life to an extreme is just as dangerous as misusing them. We were meant to have joy. If you don't want that then I guess you can go join a satanic cult that glorifies suffering and deprivation. Not my cup of tea.

A lot of women are ashamed of their sexuality. But, if women could allow themselves to have those feelings and have sex with her husband more often, I think it would help a lot of women get off their antidepressants. I believe Jesus addressed this exact issue with the Woman at the Well. Here she had had five husbands and was still so thirsty. She needed the living water, she needed to accept herself as God created her, instead of choosing men who would use and abandon her, she needed to choose someone who would accept her needs and never abandon her, and this includes sexuality.

Sexual abuse is abuse not because the act of sex is evil, but because the act of sex includes rejection as part of the deal. It isn't right to use someone's body and then say, ah, not good enough, I will find someone better. Sex should never be in that context. Sex ought to be in the context of unconditional love and acceptance and that is why marriage is so important.

again
plain and simple
lust is lust
and it is a sin

I tend to side with nature. Our feelings are good. Even the fight and flight and the anger emotions are incredibly important. I don't think humanity would survive very long without them. But with them, they can be used incorrectly and cause hurt. So, we can balance them and learn from them. But overall, I believe every part of us, including the parts that feel sexual, are good. Turn those off and we will have a very dull society. I believe the same energy that causes physical attraction is the same energy that creates scientific breakthroughs and genius entrepreneurship. Satan will never get to understand these feelings, except to use them to create death and sorrow. But God can give us the keys to handling these feelings to create miracles.

You are absolutely correct. Those who try to believe the lie that sexual urges are sinful may as well say water is evil because sometimes people die in floods. However, if we build dams we can use what was a destructive force for irrigation and electricity. Sexual urges are the same.

I AM wrote: ↑April 21st, 2019, 6:55 am again
plain and simple
lust is lust
and it is a sin

What do you have to say about this?

just because you're married
doesn't then make everything you do in the bedroom okay.

lust is a sin
and if you are wanting to satisfy your carnal desire with your wife
and look and lust after her body, it is wrong.

John 3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.



Galatians 5:16-17, 24-25


16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.



Romans 8

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


1 Nephi 22

23 For the time speedily shall come that all churches which are built up to get gain, and all those who are built up to get power over the flesh, and those who are built up to become popular in the eyes of the world, and those who seek the lusts of the flesh and the things of the world, and to do all manner of iniquity; yea, in fine, all those who belong to the kingdom of the devil are they who need fear, and tremble, and quake; they are those who must be brought low in the dust; they are those who must be consumed as stubble; and this is according to the words of the prophet.


Alma 39:9

9 Now my son, I would that ye should repent and forsake your sins, and go no more after the lusts of your eyes, but cross yourself in all these things; for except ye do this ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. Oh, remember, and take it upon you, and cross yourself in these things.


Doctrine and Covenants 42:23

23 And he that looketh upon a woman to lust after her shall deny the faith, and shall not have the Spirit; and if he repents not he shall be cast out.


Doctrine and Covenants 63:16

16 And verily I say unto you, as I have said before, he that looketh on a woman to lust after her, or if any shall commit adultery in their hearts, they shall not have the Spirit, but shall deny the faith and shall fear.

Control is important. If my "lust" is going critical, I need to pause and think:
-am I giving energy to other important aspect of my life
-am I getting in the way of what my wife needs to do right now
-am I acknowledging or ignoring her current feelings right now
-am I getting carried away so I don't understand what she's saying to me? (If so she's gonna get super annoyed)
-am I balancing my sexual affection with mental attention
-am I balancing my sexual affection with other forms of physical affection which don't end in sex?
-am I making sure we're both having fun?
-am I being faithful in my thouhts?

If I can answer favorably to all that then I'm gonna savor sex as much as I please, without guilt; and will make no effort to further bridle my passions, as I'm of the opinion that I've already appropriately bridled them as much as needed.

Imagine going into your bishop, with a sorrowful face, and sobbing and confessing, "Bishop, I feel so unworthy." The bishop asks, "Why so? Please feel free to share." The person confesses, "I come home and...and...I crave my wife so badly...I think I am lusting after her."

Imagine the bishop's reply.

One key difference between lust and love in my observation is in their continuity. Lust burns hot and fast and then poof its gone. On to the next girl, the next video, whatever. Love on the other hand rises and falls like the seasons do, and ultimately continues to build with time.

Seems like people with lust problems would soon grow bored of marriage in general anyways.

But there are many people who are married and still feel very lonely. The reason? People don’t want to be loved, but desired. Not appreciated, but lusted after. Marriage today is based on the Christian concept of love rather than the Jewish concept of lust.

Furthermore:

udaism believes that marriage must be built on deep desire and covetousness. The holiest book of the Bible, the Song of Solomon, is an erotic poem that describes the burning yearning between a man and a woman...

https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-lust-marriage-545515

Any thoughts on this? Just curious. I mean, if a couple are happy, united, and there for making and rearing their children then what sin can there be if they have strong passions and desires that some might categorize as lust?

If one represses righteous desires to their spouse, male or female, might those desires get focused on objects (porn) or actual people?

abijah wrote: ↑April 21st, 2019, 2:09 pm One key difference between lust and love in my observation is in their continuity. Lust burns hot and fast and then poof its gone. On to the next girl, the next video, whatever. Love on the other hand rises and falls like the seasons do, and ultimately continues to build with time.

Seems like people with lust problems would soon grow bored of marriage in general anyways.

If it is motivated by narcissistic selfishness, of course. If it is motivated by mutual feelings of fun and adventure then the marriage will be enhanced.

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 21st, 2019, 2:13 pm

abijah wrote: ↑April 21st, 2019, 2:09 pm One key difference between lust and love in my observation is in their continuity. Lust burns hot and fast and then poof its gone. On to the next girl, the next video, whatever. Love on the other hand rises and falls like the seasons do, and ultimately continues to build with time.

Seems like people with lust problems would soon grow bored of marriage in general anyways.

If it is motivated by narcissistic selfishness, of course. If it is motivated by mutual feelings of fun and adventure then the marriage will be enhanced.

Enhanced until another variable comes into play like say...a child.
Also will only last as long as the factors are present that are at the root of it, like youthfulness and attractiveness.
Once a problem comes, which it always does, one partner will be less fun than the other and the imbalance will cause a pretty quick divide and drift between them.

Lust is sexual based not relationship based. Lust will/could improve a sexual relationship but not the relationship itself which is not sexual based. If sex is what created relationships and is the root of a relationship between two people then we would have a lot less single parent homes and children born without both parents in their life.

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 21st, 2019, 2:12 pm

But there are many people who are married and still feel very lonely. The reason? People don’t want to be loved, but desired. Not appreciated, but lusted after. Marriage today is based on the Christian concept of love rather than the Jewish concept of lust.

Furthermore:

udaism believes that marriage must be built on deep desire and covetousness. The holiest book of the Bible, the Song of Solomon, is an erotic poem that describes the burning yearning between a man and a woman...

https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-lust-marriage-545515

Any thoughts on this? Just curious. I mean, if a couple are happy, united, and there for making and rearing their children then what sin can there be if they have strong passions and desires that some might categorize as lust?

If one represses righteous desires to their spouse, male or female, might those desires get focused on objects (porn) or actual people?

I saw this article your mentioning here. However, I didnt research further the idea stated that the definition is not the same to them as it is to westerners. Would need to look further into the possible multiple definition and understanding of lust to the jews (as a traditional understanding) and modern definition and understanding of the word in the west.

Edited to add:

Read this one,
https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/l ... me-1.52734

“The tenth commandment is clear: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife,which means you ought to be coveting your own”
“How do we recapture erotic lust? By focusing on its three laws. The first is frustrated desire and erotic obstacles. Lust is enhanced through an inability to attain the object of your longing”.
“The second law of lust is mystery. Lust is enhanced in darkness and shadows. Ironically, the more the body is covered the more one lusts after it. The third law of erotic lust is sinfulness.”

I like many things about the jews but not everything they do and believe is correct. They also are stuck in the lower law still.

Burning yearning i like that phrase

We're still talking about this?

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of
old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh
on a woman to lust after her hath committed
adultery with her already in his heart.

You can't commit adultery with your own wife, so looking upon her to lust after her is not a sin. Next.

Oct 2016 Ensign
LOVE VERSUS LUST

“Having considered what lust is, it’s also important to understand what it is not and to be careful not to label appropriate thoughts, feelings, and desires as lust.”

Defining Love and Lust

“Love is ennobling; lust is degenerating.
Love embraces truth; lust embraces lies.
Love builds and strengthens; lust destroys and weakens.
Love is harmonious; lust is discordant.
Love brings peace; lust brings conflict.
Love inspires; lust deadens.
Love heals; lust debilitates.
Love energizes; lust combusts.
Love illuminates; lust darkens.
Love fills and sustains; lust cannot be satisfied.
Love is intimately connected with promise; lust finds its home with pride.”

Alaris wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 12:09 am We're still talking about this?

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of
old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh
on a woman to lust after her hath committed
adultery with her already in his heart.

You can't commit adultery with your own wife, so looking upon her to lust after her is not a sin. Next.

The key word of focus here is LUST not adultery.


Appropriate thoughts and feelings towards your wife are not lust. How can you lust for something you already have???? Lust is for something that is not yours, and thats not good to do.
Proper desire and feelings towards and with your spouse is not lust.

So...to say you lust after your wife is kinda bad if you think about it.

Alaris wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 12:09 am We're still talking about this?

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of
old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh
on a woman to lust after her hath committed
adultery with her already in his heart.

You can't commit adultery with your own wife, so looking upon her to lust after her is not a sin. Next.

------------
did you actually say that !
"You can't commit adultery with your own wife, so looking upon her to lust after her is not a sin"
let me get this straight.
So you don't think that what Jesus said could apply to your own wife ?

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of
old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh
on a woman to lust after her hath committed
adultery with her already in his heart.

Lusting is lusting,
and whether it's with your own wife or not,
it is still lust and is still selfish and carnal and wrong
and is a sin.

Oh my goodness people.

Lust
Verb
have a very strong sexual desire for someone

It's OK to desire your wife even strongly. It's not OK to mistreat her or be selfish or treat her like she is just an object only etc.

Alaris wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 9:01 am Oh my goodness people.

Lust
Verb
have a very strong sexual desire for someone

It's OK to desire your wife even strongly. It's not OK to mistreat her or be selfish or treat her like she is just an object only etc.

Strong desire is how you put it so why bring it down to a base degrading attribute such as lust? Have more respect for your own wife than to treat her with lust. Lust is temporary and fades the second you see something more appealing to your lusting heart. Strong desire is fantastic and good. Its important that we do not call appropriate feelings such as love, desire and attraction to our spouse as lust.

Ask your wife if she is satisfied with you lusting after her, and leave it open for her to give her thoughts on the matter. She might have a slightly different take on the matter than you do...possibly. Just an idea and if you two have already agreed that lust is right for your marriage then ignore what I just suggested. Everyone is different for sure but I know that the women I am close to, and myself, desire something more meaningful than lust, something more real and reliable than mere base behavior.

I think we've pretty much all gone over what lust is;
especially more important how the scriptures define lust
and what it is, and what Jesus has said in these verses,
and that LUST IS A SIN, "no matter HOW YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT"
(the THING you're looking at)

like I said, just because you're married
doesn't then mean you can do anything you want and have it be okay.

So what we're talking about that happens between a husband and wife
and their desire for each other, to me, CAN NOT BE lust. Plain and simple.

How can it be any different to look with your eyes at your wife's body with lust,
being aroused by what you see, than looking at pornography ?

Here is what I think the real difference is.
Lust for your wife is wrong because lust is lust of the flesh - desiring what you see - her body.

I believe that sex should be more based on feelings of love and more spiritual , instead of just lusting and satisfying each others carnal and base desires.

You shouldn't lust and desire your wife for what you see - her nice body,
you should desire her because of what you feel - feelings of love for her, and want to "make love" to her, and want to be more one with her. "one flesh".

I think we need to try to be more attracted to what's on the inside, and what we feel, instead of what we see on the outside and wanting something because of the way it looks; and try to look at peoples spirits and who they really are.

Just like God - He doesn't care about what you look like - He looks at the heart, and so should we, because in reality, THAT is what we look like and who we are.

I'd venture a lot of marriages could use a little lust sprinkled in and would probably be welcomed by the other party.

"be welcomed by the other party" ?
hmm - I really wonder WHO that could be.

your spouse

I have resisted clicking on this topic until now because.....really? Is this a legitimate question someone has? I figured it was a troll thread but its at 3 pages already. I dont mean to come off as rude or condescending.....it just seems this question is silly. If someone really feels any guilt or shame whatsoever over lusting after their wife then God help you.....you need it.