LDS Freedom Forum

thestock wrote: ↑April 21st, 2019, 8:29 am

Teancum wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 6:10 pm

thestock wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 2:11 pm Here is a dandy from Boyd K. Packer:

"I have a hard time with historians because they idolize the truth. The truth is not uplifting; it destroys. I could tell most of the secretaries in the church office building that they are ugly and fat. That would be the truth, but it would hurt and destroy them. Historians should tell only that part of the truth that is inspiring and uplifting." Boyd K. Packer, Quinn (ed), Faithful History: Essays On Writing Mormon History, p 103, fn 22

Not his finest moment to be sure.

Does Father tell you that you are a bitter, angry, fallen mortal? NO! He tells you that you have Godly potential, that you have seeds of Godhood in you. But the Devil sure does tell you all of your weaknesses and failings.
How would you rather act and follow, like the Devil, or like Father and His Son?


Then I would choose the Son and His apostles and how they treat others rather than how a disgruntled, angry, and bitter antagonist does. Choose to embrace the good and refuse the hate. Look for the good and emphasize the good. Leave the bad alone for it is evident enough without having to be pointed out. Build up instead of tear down.

Brother Packer was very wise and truly in a fine moment.

The disciples of R. Kelly’s church will be quoting you in 100 years.

In sacrament meeting today one of the speakers' talks was on forgiveness. He mentioned to stop the gossip and not pass on every bad thing you know.

Also in the same talk it was mentioned that some wait to grant forgiveness until the offender repents, but that the better way is to offer frank and immediate forgiveness.

Christ certainly knows each of our bad things but makes us a promise that if we repent and forgive others, that our bad things will not be mentioned to us in the judgement. In other words, he will forgive us. So is He lying when he says he will present us without spot to Father in Heaven?

No He covers all those bad things of ours, takes the penalty, and purifies us into new creatures. But not if we will not forgive.

Go and do thou likewise.

So if someone try's to convert you to their way of thinking but leaves out material facts and then gaslights you continually; we should just forgive them and join up? I think the better way is to call them out and make them release all the material facts that are known. Then we'll have the information needed to make an informed decision.

Sure, encourage them to repent, to be honest, to be faithful stewards to the best of their ability, but there is a vast world of difference between encouraging them to repent, vs gossip, hate, and vicious attacks designed to hurt and injure and continually bringing up old pains.

Call them to repent, if necessary, and then forgive and drop it. If you go much farther in pursuing things, then you have not forgiven, but have nurtured an attitude of animosity. You know that leads to the dark side.

So if you are always watching to see if or rather when people slip up and make mistakes, then you never can see the good for seeking to find the bad, because that is always on your mind.

Mindfields wrote: ↑April 21st, 2019, 2:24 pm So if someone try's to convert you to their way of thinking but leaves out material facts and then gaslights you continually; we should just forgive them and join up? I think the better way is to call them out and make them release all the material facts that are known. Then we'll have the information needed to make an informed decision.

So its better for Pres Packer to go in every day and call those secretaries at the COB fat and ugly?

Teancum wrote: ↑April 21st, 2019, 2:44 pm

Mindfields wrote: ↑April 21st, 2019, 2:24 pm So if someone try's to convert you to their way of thinking but leaves out material facts and then gaslights you continually; we should just forgive them and join up? I think the better way is to call them out and make them release all the material facts that are known. Then we'll have the information needed to make an informed decision.

So its better for Pres Packer to go in every day and call those secretaries at the COB fat and ugly?

The fat secretary plug was just a non-related distraction. What Packer is actually saying is that history, historians, and the full truth don't matter and its more important to just go with an uplifting narrative, no matter how scrubbed over or inaccurate it may be. That is upsetting to me. There is no difference between what Packer is advocating and propaganda... When dealing with eternal salvation and personal relationships with God, Church leaders should embrace ALL truth, no matter how uncomfortable it may be, and encourage others to embrace it as well and to consider all available information when making important life decisions. Each institution has skeletons in its closet....but ignoring or attempting to discredit our own Church's skeletons only serves to push people away as they see through the lies and deception and come away feeling like they've been manipulated. Pretty sure the bible has a lot to say about such leaders....and true blue Christians will know what the Bible says and will see that our Church does not pass the test if our leaders behave this way!