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16 Moreover, the Lord saith: Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched-forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet—

17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.

18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments, and cauls, and round tires like the moon;

19 The chains and the bracelets, and the mufflers;

20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the ear-rings;

21 The rings, and nose jewels;

22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping-pins;

23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and hoods, and the veils.

24 And it shall come to pass, instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle, a rent; and instead of well set hair, baldness; and instead of a stomacher, a girding of sackcloth; burning instead of beauty.

25 Thy men shall fall by the sword and thy mighty in the war.


26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she shall be desolate, and shall sit upon the ground.

1 And in that day, seven women shall take hold of one man, saying: We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel; only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach.

It were well if this were not introduced here partly as a reflection upon the daughters of Zion, that, notwithstanding the humbling providences they were under ch. 3:18 ), they remained unhumbled, and, instead of repenting of their pride and vanity, when God was contending with them for them, all their care was to get husbands—that modesty, which is the greatest beauty of the fair sex, was forgotten, and with them the reproach of vice was nothing to the reproach of virginity, a sad symptom of the irrecoverable desolations of virtue.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 7:35 am 7 churches, each want to use the authoratative name of Christ but want to do things their own way.
These “women” Isaiah is talking about are not good. The marriage suggested is not following the gospel pattern. What man marries under the name of God and is excused from providing for his wife? Anyone who thinks this is about 7 literal women that beg one man to marry and they will take care of themselves are sorely mistaken.
This is not about the saints living polygamy IN THE LEAST. Its about churches claiming the name of Christ but doing the gospel and interpreting it and living it according to their own designs. ITS BAD! Not a good or noble thing, like taking care of defenseless and helpless women. And its not a future date, its already taking place now.

simpleton wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 8:00 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 7:35 am 7 churches, each want to use the authoratative name of Christ but want to do things their own way.
These “women” Isaiah is talking about are not good. The marriage suggested is not following the gospel pattern. What man marries under the name of God and is excused from providing for his wife? Anyone who thinks this is about 7 literal women that beg one man to marry and they will take care of themselves are sorely mistaken.
This is not about the saints living polygamy IN THE LEAST. Its about churches claiming the name of Christ but doing the gospel and interpreting it and living it according to their own designs. ITS BAD! Not a good or noble thing, like taking care of defenseless and helpless women. And its not a future date, its already taking place now.

Except that the churches you refer to don't do those things that Isaiah accuses us of, but rather we are the " haughty daughters of Zion" literally that go about in our Babylonian fashions depicted by Isaiah quite literally.
And as mentioned above that quote of the seven women is a continuation of the previous chapter...

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 17th, 2019, 11:56 pm None of the answers provided are even near to being correct, so I did not choose one. I will give you a clue as to what this means, if you live in a world where there are 700,000 men and 4,900,000 women and almost all children are dead and all the people in this estimation are trying to live the restored gospel and very few of them are married and the option for plural marriage is authorized, what do you think is going to happen? Also, when do you think this might happen?

nvr wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 2:05 am In Isaiah, this verse actually belongs with the last verses in chapter 3 before it - it was incorrectly grouped into chapter 4 in Isaiah (2 Nephi ch 14) Here's those preceding verses :

16 Moreover, the Lord saith: Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched-forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet—

17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.

18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments, and cauls, and round tires like the moon;

19 The chains and the bracelets, and the mufflers;

20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the ear-rings;

21 The rings, and nose jewels;

22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping-pins;

23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and hoods, and the veils.

24 And it shall come to pass, instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle, a rent; and instead of well set hair, baldness; and instead of a stomacher, a girding of sackcloth; burning instead of beauty.

25 Thy men shall fall by the sword and thy mighty in the war.


26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she shall be desolate, and shall sit upon the ground.

1 And in that day, seven women shall take hold of one man, saying: We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel; only let us be called by thy name to take away our reproach.

Here's some bible commentary on this verse from Isaiah. From their perspective, it is not prophesying divine polygamy but rather commenting on the state of women:

It were well if this were not introduced here partly as a reflection upon the daughters of Zion, that, notwithstanding the humbling providences they were under ch. 3:18 ), they remained unhumbled, and, instead of repenting of their pride and vanity, when God was contending with them for them, all their care was to get husbands—that modesty, which is the greatest beauty of the fair sex, was forgotten, and with them the reproach of vice was nothing to the reproach of virginity, a sad symptom of the irrecoverable desolations of virtue.

Some have suggested that this verse could also be an allegory to the way many churches take on the name of the Christ but only want to
feed and provide for themselves, with their own teachings rather than seeking for Christ to lead them and provide for them.
When Nephites faced a large loss of men from a battle, the survivors were asked to help provide for them and their fatherless children. They were not asked to marry the widows.

Interesting difference - I think the Nephites, in providing for the widowed families, did what God would have us do in any scenario.

Hm. Maybe this thing I'm hoping is not a trend of single women having children via sperm donations is part of what Isaiah describes.

John Tavner wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 8:03 am

simpleton wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 8:00 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 7:35 am 7 churches, each want to use the authoratative name of Christ but want to do things their own way.
These “women” Isaiah is talking about are not good. The marriage suggested is not following the gospel pattern. What man marries under the name of God and is excused from providing for his wife? Anyone who thinks this is about 7 literal women that beg one man to marry and they will take care of themselves are sorely mistaken.
This is not about the saints living polygamy IN THE LEAST. Its about churches claiming the name of Christ but doing the gospel and interpreting it and living it according to their own designs. ITS BAD! Not a good or noble thing, like taking care of defenseless and helpless women. And its not a future date, its already taking place now.

Except that the churches you refer to don't do those things that Isaiah accuses us of, but rather we are the " haughty daughters of Zion" literally that go about in our Babylonian fashions depicted by Isaiah quite literally.
And as mentioned above that quote of the seven women is a continuation of the previous chapter...

Also, it seems very odd and out of place to use the number 7 as something evil or wrong - 7 is almost always associated with perfection or wholeness/oneness.

simpleton wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 8:00 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 7:35 am 7 churches, each want to use the authoratative name of Christ but want to do things their own way.
These “women” Isaiah is talking about are not good. The marriage suggested is not following the gospel pattern. What man marries under the name of God and is excused from providing for his wife? Anyone who thinks this is about 7 literal women that beg one man to marry and they will take care of themselves are sorely mistaken.
This is not about the saints living polygamy IN THE LEAST. Its about churches claiming the name of Christ but doing the gospel and interpreting it and living it according to their own designs. ITS BAD! Not a good or noble thing, like taking care of defenseless and helpless women. And its not a future date, its already taking place now.

Except that the churches you refer to don't do those things that Isaiah accuses us of, but rather we are the " haughty daughters of Zion" literally that go about in our Babylonian fashions depicted by Isaiah quite literally.
And as mentioned above that quote of the seven women is a continuation of the previous chapter...

MMbelieve wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 9:18 am Not sure what your saying. You think the churches I mentioned are not haughty and vain?

ori wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 9:10 am

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 17th, 2019, 11:56 pm None of the answers provided are even near to being correct, so I did not choose one. I will give you a clue as to what this means, if you live in a world where there are 700,000 men and 4,900,000 women and almost all children are dead and all the people in this estimation are trying to live the restored gospel and very few of them are married and the option for plural marriage is authorized, what do you think is going to happen? Also, when do you think this might happen?

I wish I could understand what you are saying. By this post alone (without looking at the poll options) it sounds like you think polygamy will happen. But there is a poll option that says "saint will live polygamy". So I'm confused as to what you mean. So yes, you will have to spell it out if you want me to understand, not just ask questions. To answer your question, "what do you think is going to happen?": It seems you are leading to the right answer being that polygamy will happen. And to answer your question "when" : it seems you are leading to the answer during the millennium (maybe?). If you had different ideas than these, I apologize, you will have to spell it out. And yes, I am interested in your position.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 9:18 am

simpleton wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 8:00 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 7:35 am 7 churches, each want to use the authoratative name of Christ but want to do things their own way.
These “women” Isaiah is talking about are not good. The marriage suggested is not following the gospel pattern. What man marries under the name of God and is excused from providing for his wife? Anyone who thinks this is about 7 literal women that beg one man to marry and they will take care of themselves are sorely mistaken.
This is not about the saints living polygamy IN THE LEAST. Its about churches claiming the name of Christ but doing the gospel and interpreting it and living it according to their own designs. ITS BAD! Not a good or noble thing, like taking care of defenseless and helpless women. And its not a future date, its already taking place now.

Except that the churches you refer to don't do those things that Isaiah accuses us of, but rather we are the " haughty daughters of Zion" literally that go about in our Babylonian fashions depicted by Isaiah quite literally.
And as mentioned above that quote of the seven women is a continuation of the previous chapter...

Not sure what your saying. You think the churches I mentioned are not haughty and vain?

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 9:42 am

ori wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 9:10 am

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 17th, 2019, 11:56 pm None of the answers provided are even near to being correct, so I did not choose one. I will give you a clue as to what this means, if you live in a world where there are 700,000 men and 4,900,000 women and almost all children are dead and all the people in this estimation are trying to live the restored gospel and very few of them are married and the option for plural marriage is authorized, what do you think is going to happen? Also, when do you think this might happen?

I wish I could understand what you are saying. By this post alone (without looking at the poll options) it sounds like you think polygamy will happen. But there is a poll option that says "saint will live polygamy". So I'm confused as to what you mean. So yes, you will have to spell it out if you want me to understand, not just ask questions. To answer your question, "what do you think is going to happen?": It seems you are leading to the right answer being that polygamy will happen. And to answer your question "when" : it seems you are leading to the answer during the millennium (maybe?). If you had different ideas than these, I apologize, you will have to spell it out. And yes, I am interested in your position.

The reason I phrased it this way is because I am not certain of a few things, also, your one answer which I think is most correct says "This verse will be fulfilled when Saints live polygamy during the millennium" I am not certain that this will take place in the millennium, that might be correct, but I feel it will be before the millennium as a preparatory act. As you can tell from the many positions on this question you present about this scripture it is very difficult for many people to understand and Nephi in Second Nephi chapter 2 confirms this and why it is so.
The Prophet WIlford Woodruff said this: "I had been reading the revelations…[when] a strange stupor came over me and I recognized that I was in the Tabernacle at Ogden. I arose to speak and said…I will answer you right here what is coming to pass shortly….I then looked in all directions…and I found the same mourning in every place throughout the Land. It seemed as though I was above the earth, looking down to it as I passed along on my way east and I saw the roads full of people principally women with just what they could carry in bundles on their backs…It was remarkable to me that there were so few men among them…Wherever I went I saw…scenes of horror and desolation rapine and death…death and destruction everywhere. I cannot paint in words the horror that seemed to encompass me around. It was beyond description or thought of man to conceive. I supposed that this was the End but I was here given to understand, that the same horrors were being enacted all over the country…Then a voice said “Now shall come to pass that which was spoken by Isaiah the Prophet That seven women shall take hold of one man…”"
In the book "Simplified Isaiah for the Latter-Day Saints" (David R. Minert) this verse is translated very interestingly, but the book does not allow itself to be quoted without permission from the author which I do not have. For the most part I agree with what he says and this is largely spelled out in my statements and questions. If you have access to this book I recommend it.

simpleton wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 9:57 am

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 9:42 am

ori wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 9:10 am

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 17th, 2019, 11:56 pm None of the answers provided are even near to being correct, so I did not choose one. I will give you a clue as to what this means, if you live in a world where there are 700,000 men and 4,900,000 women and almost all children are dead and all the people in this estimation are trying to live the restored gospel and very few of them are married and the option for plural marriage is authorized, what do you think is going to happen? Also, when do you think this might happen?

I wish I could understand what you are saying. By this post alone (without looking at the poll options) it sounds like you think polygamy will happen. But there is a poll option that says "saint will live polygamy". So I'm confused as to what you mean. So yes, you will have to spell it out if you want me to understand, not just ask questions. To answer your question, "what do you think is going to happen?": It seems you are leading to the right answer being that polygamy will happen. And to answer your question "when" : it seems you are leading to the answer during the millennium (maybe?). If you had different ideas than these, I apologize, you will have to spell it out. And yes, I am interested in your position.

The reason I phrased it this way is because I am not certain of a few things, also, your one answer which I think is most correct says "This verse will be fulfilled when Saints live polygamy during the millennium" I am not certain that this will take place in the millennium, that might be correct, but I feel it will be before the millennium as a preparatory act. As you can tell from the many positions on this question you present about this scripture it is very difficult for many people to understand and Nephi in Second Nephi chapter 2 confirms this and why it is so.
The Prophet WIlford Woodruff said this: "I had been reading the revelations…[when] a strange stupor came over me and I recognized that I was in the Tabernacle at Ogden. I arose to speak and said…I will answer you right here what is coming to pass shortly….I then looked in all directions…and I found the same mourning in every place throughout the Land. It seemed as though I was above the earth, looking down to it as I passed along on my way east and I saw the roads full of people principally women with just what they could carry in bundles on their backs…It was remarkable to me that there were so few men among them…Wherever I went I saw…scenes of horror and desolation rapine and death…death and destruction everywhere. I cannot paint in words the horror that seemed to encompass me around. It was beyond description or thought of man to conceive. I supposed that this was the End but I was here given to understand, that the same horrors were being enacted all over the country…Then a voice said “Now shall come to pass that which was spoken by Isaiah the Prophet That seven women shall take hold of one man…”"
In the book "Simplified Isaiah for the Latter-Day Saints" (David R. Minert) this verse is translated very interestingly, but the book does not allow itself to be quoted without permission from the author which I do not have. For the most part I agree with what he says and this is largely spelled out in my statements and questions. If you have access to this book I recommend it.

What Wilford Woodruff saw, is what I believe will come to pass sonewhat along those lines. That because of the terrible destruction of mankind, which I think will shortly come to pass, because of us being " lifted up in pride above all nations", there will be a chronic shortage of men. Probably to the point of it being a "national emergency" if you will... of course there won't even be a nation as it will be almost completely destroyed...

simpleton wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 9:51 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 9:18 am

simpleton wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 8:00 am

MMbelieve wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 7:35 am 7 churches, each want to use the authoratative name of Christ but want to do things their own way.
These “women” Isaiah is talking about are not good. The marriage suggested is not following the gospel pattern. What man marries under the name of God and is excused from providing for his wife? Anyone who thinks this is about 7 literal women that beg one man to marry and they will take care of themselves are sorely mistaken.
This is not about the saints living polygamy IN THE LEAST. Its about churches claiming the name of Christ but doing the gospel and interpreting it and living it according to their own designs. ITS BAD! Not a good or noble thing, like taking care of defenseless and helpless women. And its not a future date, its already taking place now.

Except that the churches you refer to don't do those things that Isaiah accuses us of, but rather we are the " haughty daughters of Zion" literally that go about in our Babylonian fashions depicted by Isaiah quite literally.
And as mentioned above that quote of the seven women is a continuation of the previous chapter...

Not sure what your saying. You think the churches I mentioned are not haughty and vain?

I do think that Isaiah uses types and shadows, and a person could possibly use your definition also. But I think Isaiah is literally talking about us in our day, more especially, and the above specific quote is talking about Gods latter day saints.
Just look around at us, we are about as proud and haughty as they come, here in "Zion". Look at the explicit description he uses describing the " haughty daughters of Zion". Look at how he describes the men in Zion. I think it fits us to a tee.
So I kindly disagree with it being 7 churches...

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 9:42 am
The reason I phrased it this way is because I am not certain of a few things, also, your one answer which I think is most correct says "This verse will be fulfilled when Saints live polygamy during the millennium" I am not certain that this will take place in the millennium, that might be correct, but I feel it will be before the millennium as a preparatory act. As you can tell from the many positions on this question you present about this scripture it is very difficult for many people to understand and Nephi in Second Nephi chapter 2 confirms this and why it is so.
The Prophet WIlford Woodruff said this: "I had been reading the revelations…[when] a strange stupor came over me and I recognized that I was in the Tabernacle at Ogden. I arose to speak and said…I will answer you right here what is coming to pass shortly….I then looked in all directions…and I found the same mourning in every place throughout the Land. It seemed as though I was above the earth, looking down to it as I passed along on my way east and I saw the roads full of people principally women with just what they could carry in bundles on their backs…It was remarkable to me that there were so few men among them…Wherever I went I saw…scenes of horror and desolation rapine and death…death and destruction everywhere. I cannot paint in words the horror that seemed to encompass me around. It was beyond description or thought of man to conceive. I supposed that this was the End but I was here given to understand, that the same horrors were being enacted all over the country…Then a voice said “Now shall come to pass that which was spoken by Isaiah the Prophet That seven women shall take hold of one man…”"
In the book "Simplified Isaiah for the Latter-Day Saints" (David R. Minert) this verse is translated very interestingly, but the book does not allow itself to be quoted without permission from the author which I do not have. For the most part I agree with what he says and this is largely spelled out in my statements and questions. If you have access to this book I recommend it.