LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 10:46 am**

as I've said before.

"Gentiles
Even though most of us members are from Ephraim - the
House of Israel, for now we are referred to as "Gentiles".
When the Book of Mormon prophets speak about the Gentiles.,
they are addressing us - the church and also people in America.
Who else is "established in this land, and be set up as a free people"
and who else did the Lord "establish my church " with ?
None other people but our church today.
3 Nephi Chapter 21
4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they (Gentiles) should be
established in this land,
and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father,
that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed,
that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted
with his people, O house of Israel;
22 But if they will repent and hearken unto my words,
and harden not their hearts,
I will establish my church among them (Gentiles), (the restored gospel our church today)
and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among
this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land
for their inheritance;
2 Nephi 10

The United States of America
11 And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the Gentiles.

3 Nephi 21
6 For thus it behooveth the Father that it should come forth from the Gentiles, that he may show forth his power unto the Gentiles, for this cause that the Gentiles, if they will not harden their hearts, that they may repent and come unto me and be baptized in my name and know of the true points of my doctrine, that they may be numbered among my people, O house of Israel;

1 Nephi 15
13 And now, the thing which our father meaneth concerning the grafting in of the natural branches through the fulness of the Gentiles, is, that in the latter days, when our seed shall have dwindled in unbelief, yea, for the space of many years, and many generations after the Messiah shall be manifested in body unto the children of men, then shall the fulness of the gospel of the Messiah come unto the Gentiles, and from the Gentiles unto the remnant of our seed—

3 Nephi 23:4

4 "Therefore give heed to my words;
write the things which I have told you;
and according to the time and the will
of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles." (The Book of Mormon)

(D&C 109:60)
60 Now these words, O Lord, we have spoken before thee,
concerning the revelations and commandments which thou
hast given unto us, who are identified with the Gentiles
- Joseph Smith

"If we are to accept the blessings pronounced to the “Gentiles” in the Book of Mormon, should we not seriously consider the warnings to the “Gentiles” that are pronounced throughout the Book of Mormon? "

So when the Book of Mormon says "Gentiles" They are
referring to all of us, (especially the church and it's members)
who live in this "choice land" - this fallen land of America.

Avraham Gileadi

"The repentant Gentiles are numbered with The House of Israel ONLY after they
perform their saving mission toward them.
The claim that Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel, descending through the mingled lineage of Ephraim, though true, is thus provisional.
Whether Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel ultimately depends on whether they fulfill their prophetic mission"

Gileadi
"As we learn how the scriptures define Gentiles, we also understand what they teach about the role of Latter-day Saints.
The popular notion of Gentiles as non-Mormons appears inadequate when we come to realize the message of The Book of Mormon."

"So long as we think of ourselves as the "good guys" in whatever scriptural scenario we are studying, for example, we will learn very little from the scriptures.
We will not be able to apply their historical lessons to ourselves.
Most important, we will end up with only a hypothetical role or mission to fulfill, one lacking a correct idea of self-identity and purpose.
The scriptures speak of The House of Israel as well as the Gentiles in terms of both good and evil. At the root of the question of identities, therefore, is not who is good and who is bad, but rather what mission God asks us to fulfill."

Avraham Gileadi
"Serving as Kings and Queens of the Gentiles"
http://www.josephandjudah.com/2016/05/s ... tiles.html

this is just a small part taken from his talk.

"Let us additionally assume that we aren't among those same Gentiles "in Zion" (2 Nephi 28:21, 24, 32) who "are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:14)-those who don't search the scriptures and repent of their error (cf. Jacob 7:23; Alma 14:1; 17:2 33:2; 3 Nephi 10:14) but who are "at ease in Zion" and assume "all is well" (2 Nephi 28:24-25). That we aren't among those who "hearken unto the precepts of men," who disallow "the power of God" in their lives and void "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:26)-those who say, "We have received, and we need no more" (2 Nephi 28:27, 29), who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31). That we aren't among those who end up denying the Lord God when his "arm"-his servant in the Book of Isaiah-"is lengthened out all the day long" (2 Nephi 28:32)."

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 10:50 am**

Ezra T. Benson
has said that we were under condemnation
for treating the Book of Mormon lightly.
“If the early Saints were rebuked for treating
the Book of Mormon lightly, are we under any less
condemnation if we do the same?”
(in Conference Report, Oct. 1986, 4;
or Ensign, Nov. 1986, 4–5).
D&C 84:
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened
because of unbelief, and because you have treated
lightly the things you have received—

55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the
whole church under condemnation.

56 And this condemnation resteth upon
the children of Zion, even all.

57 And they shall remain under this condemnation
until they repent and remember the new covenant,
even the Book of Mormon and the former
commandments which I have given them,
not only to say, but to do according to
that which I have written—

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 10:58 am**

I 100% agree that "gentiles" in the BOM STRONGLY identifies Americans (though not exclusively), and I 100% agree that his church was set up among those gentiles.

I also strongly agree we have problems in the church.

However, if someone asks me if I'm a gentile, my answer will be: "I used to be, hopefully never going back."

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 11:14 am**

We HAVE NOT REPENTED and are still under condemnation
for treating the Book of Mormon lightly,
as you do, "treating the Book of Mormon lightly",
because you think that these warnings do not apply to you and members of the church

this time - READ THE PARTS IN RED

as I just said

study ALL the scriptures.
you will find many of them in my comments in the links I give you.
for now, YOU are still a Gentile, and the Book of Mormon identifies YOU as one;
and ALL the warnings in the Book of Mormon are for YOU,
and all members more than ANYONE.

"If we are to accept the blessings pronounced to the “Gentiles” in the Book of Mormon, should we not seriously consider the warnings to the “Gentiles” that are pronounced throughout the Book of Mormon? "

So when the Book of Mormon says "Gentiles" They are
referring to all of us, (especially the church and it's members)
who live in this "choice land" - this fallen land of America.

Avraham Gileadi

"The repentant Gentiles are numbered with The House of Israel ONLY after they
perform their saving mission toward them.
The claim that Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel, descending through the mingled lineage of Ephraim, though true, is thus provisional.
Whether Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel ultimately depends on whether they fulfill their prophetic mission"

Gileadi
"As we learn how the scriptures define Gentiles, we also understand what they teach about the role of Latter-day Saints.
The popular notion of Gentiles as non-Mormons appears inadequate when we come to realize the message of The Book of Mormon."

"So long as we think of ourselves as the "good guys" in whatever scriptural scenario we are studying, for example, we will learn very little from the scriptures.
We will not be able to apply their historical lessons to ourselves.
Most important, we will end up with only a hypothetical role or mission to fulfill, one lacking a correct idea of self-identity and purpose.
The scriptures speak of The House of Israel as well as the Gentiles in terms of both good and evil. At the root of the question of identities, therefore, is not who is good and who is bad, but rather what mission God asks us to fulfill."

Avraham Gileadi
"Serving as Kings and Queens of the Gentiles"
http://www.josephandjudah.com/2016/05/s ... tiles.html

this is just a small part taken from his talk.

"Let us additionally assume that we aren't among those same Gentiles "in Zion" (2 Nephi 28:21, 24, 32) who "are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:14)-those who don't search the scriptures and repent of their error (cf. Jacob 7:23; Alma 14:1; 17:2 33:2; 3 Nephi 10:14) but who are "at ease in Zion" and assume "all is well" (2 Nephi 28:24-25). That we aren't among those who "hearken unto the precepts of men," who disallow "the power of God" in their lives and void "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:26)-those who say, "We have received, and we need no more" (2 Nephi 28:27, 29), who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31). That we aren't among those who end up denying the Lord God when his "arm"-his servant in the Book of Isaiah-"is lengthened out all the day long" (2 Nephi 28:32)."

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 11:17 am**

Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion! Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!” ( 2 Nephi 28:21, 24-25 )

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 11:23 am**

who said all is well? Ya'll might not be listening.

Whatever

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 12:04 pm**

I AM wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 11:14 am We HAVE NOT REPENTED and are still under condemnation
for treating the Book of Mormon lightly,
as you do, "treating the Book of Mormon lightly",
because you think that these warnings do not apply to you and members of the church

this time - READ THE PARTS IN RED

as I just said

study ALL the scriptures.
you will find many of them in my comments in the links I give you.
for now, YOU are still a Gentile, and the Book of Mormon identifies YOU as one;
and ALL the warnings in the Book of Mormon are for YOU,
and all members more than ANYONE.

"If we are to accept the blessings pronounced to the “Gentiles” in the Book of Mormon, should we not seriously consider the warnings to the “Gentiles” that are pronounced throughout the Book of Mormon? "

So when the Book of Mormon says "Gentiles" They are
referring to all of us, (especially the church and it's members)
who live in this "choice land" - this fallen land of America.

Avraham Gileadi

"The repentant Gentiles are numbered with The House of Israel ONLY after they
perform their saving mission toward them.
The claim that Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel, descending through the mingled lineage of Ephraim, though true, is thus provisional.
Whether Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel ultimately depends on whether they fulfill their prophetic mission"

Gileadi
"As we learn how the scriptures define Gentiles, we also understand what they teach about the role of Latter-day Saints.
The popular notion of Gentiles as non-Mormons appears inadequate when we come to realize the message of The Book of Mormon."

"So long as we think of ourselves as the "good guys" in whatever scriptural scenario we are studying, for example, we will learn very little from the scriptures.
We will not be able to apply their historical lessons to ourselves.
Most important, we will end up with only a hypothetical role or mission to fulfill, one lacking a correct idea of self-identity and purpose.
The scriptures speak of The House of Israel as well as the Gentiles in terms of both good and evil. At the root of the question of identities, therefore, is not who is good and who is bad, but rather what mission God asks us to fulfill."

Avraham Gileadi
"Serving as Kings and Queens of the Gentiles"
http://www.josephandjudah.com/2016/05/s ... tiles.html

this is just a small part taken from his talk.

"Let us additionally assume that we aren't among those same Gentiles "in Zion" (2 Nephi 28:21, 24, 32) who "are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:14)-those who don't search the scriptures and repent of their error (cf. Jacob 7:23; Alma 14:1; 17:2 33:2; 3 Nephi 10:14) but who are "at ease in Zion" and assume "all is well" (2 Nephi 28:24-25). That we aren't among those who "hearken unto the precepts of men," who disallow "the power of God" in their lives and void "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:26)-those who say, "We have received, and we need no more" (2 Nephi 28:27, 29), who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31). That we aren't among those who end up denying the Lord God when his "arm"-his servant in the Book of Isaiah-"is lengthened out all the day long" (2 Nephi 28:32)."

You are now just being stubborn brother. You are not even considering the scriptures you are posting. How about this one:

3 Nephi Chapter 21
4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they (Gentiles) should be
established in this land,
and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father,
that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed,
that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted
with his people, O house of Israel;
22 But if they will repent and hearken unto my words,
and harden not their hearts,
I will establish my church among them (Gentiles), (the restored gospel our church today)
and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among
this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land
for their inheritance;

So look at verse 22 closely. The Lord is giving a condition upon which any person can "come in unto the covenant and be numbered among the remnant of Jacob". That condition is if they will 1. repent and 2. hearken unto His words and 3. harden not their hearts.

He then promises to establish his church among them and they are given the same promises and blessing given unto all of the House of Israel. That is all part of the Abrahamic covenant outlined in scripture. One can be from any blood lineage and still be given all the blessings and promises that the Lord is extending to all those of the House of Israel if they will do the 3 things the Lord has asked.

YOU sir are in absolutely no position to judge anyone as to their own heart and their own personal worthiness with God. Labeling all those from Ephraim or any lineage as gentiles shows that you do not understand the scriptures that you quote. Here what Joseph Fielding Smith said further about this issue:

“The members of the Church, most of us of the tribe of Ephraim, are of the remnant of Jacob. We know it to be the fact that the Lord called upon the descendants of Ephraim to commence his work in the earth in these last days. We know further that he has said that he set Ephraim, according to the promises of his birthright, at the head. Ephraim receives the ‘richer blessings,’ these blessings being those of presidency or direction. The keys are with Ephraim. It is Ephraim who is to be endowed with power to bless and give to the other tribes, including the Lamanites, their blessings. All the other tribes of Jacob, including the Lamanites, are to be crowned with glory in Zion by the hands of Ephraim. …

“That the remnants of Joseph, found among the descendants of Lehi, will have part in this great work is certainly consistent, and the great work of this restoration, the building of the temple and the City of Zion, or New Jerusalem, will fall to the lot of the descendants of Joseph, but it is Ephraim who will stand at the head and direct the work.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:250–51; italics in original removed.)

If you read Section 133 verses 26-35 it will be clear to you what Pres. Smith is talking about.

26 And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.

27 And an highway shall be cast up in the midst of the great deep.

28 Their enemies shall become a prey unto them,

29 And in the barren deserts there shall come forth pools of living water; and the parched ground shall no longer be a thirsty land.

30 And they shall bring forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants.

31 And the boundaries of the everlasting hills shall tremble at their presence.

32 And there shall they fall down and be crowned with glory, even in Zion, by the hands of the servants of the Lord, even the children of Ephraim.

33 And they shall be filled with songs of everlasting joy.

34 Behold, this is the blessing of the everlasting God upon the tribes of Israel, and the richer blessing upon the head of Ephraim and his fellows.

35 And they also of the tribe of Judah, after their pain, shall be sanctified in holiness before the Lord, to dwell in his presence day and night, forever and ever.

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 2:04 pm**

THE GENTILES - your future
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51261&p=924410&hili ... re#p924410

really getting tired of repeating myself.
And believe me, I DO read what I post,
and have read all these scriptures many many times.

YOU are NOW A GENTILE, just as every other member is,
and will continue to be a Gentile unless we fulfill our Gentile mission, ***
(future - it's conditional)
and DO NOT do the things THAT WE HAVE DONE. (listed below * )

Because WE HAVE DONE THESE THINGS, and because the church
and most all members will reject the Lord's end-time servant when he comes,
very very few members will be numbered with The House of Israel.

*** Avraham Gileadi
"Serving as Kings and Queens of the Gentiles"
http://www.josephandjudah.com/2016/05/s ... tiles.html

* (list of things members have done, and continue to do )
"Let us additionally assume that we aren't among those same Gentiles "in Zion" (2 Nephi 28:21, 24, 32) who "are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:14)-those who don't search the scriptures and repent of their error (cf. Jacob 7:23; Alma 14:1; 17:2 33:2; 3 Nephi 10:14) but who are "at ease in Zion" and assume "all is well" (2 Nephi 28:24-25). That we aren't among those who "hearken unto the precepts of men," who disallow "the power of God" in their lives and void "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:26)-those who say, "We have received, and we need no more" (2 Nephi 28:27, 29),
who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31). That we aren't among those who end up denying the Lord God when his "arm"-his servant in the Book of Isaiah-"is lengthened out all the day long" (2 Nephi 28:32)."

Avraham Gileadi

"The repentant Gentiles are numbered with The House of Israel ONLY after they perform their saving mission toward them.
The claim that Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel, descending through the mingled lineage of Ephraim, though true, is thus provisional.
Whether Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel ultimately depends on whether they fulfill their prophetic mission"

Gileadi
"As we learn how the scriptures define Gentiles, we also understand what they teach about the role of Latter-day Saints.
The popular notion of Gentiles as non-Mormons appears inadequate when we come to realize the message of The Book of Mormon."

"So long as we think of ourselves as the "good guys" in whatever scriptural scenario we are studying, for example, we will learn very little from the scriptures.
We will not be able to apply their historical lessons to ourselves.
Most important, we will end up with only a hypothetical role or mission to fulfill, one lacking a correct idea of self-identity and purpose.
The scriptures speak of The House of Israel as well as the Gentiles in terms of both good and evil. At the root of the question of identities, therefore, is not who is good and who is bad, but rather what mission God asks us to fulfill."

Avraham Gileadi
"Serving as Kings and Queens of the Gentiles"
http://www.josephandjudah.com/2016/05/s ... tiles.html

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 3:16 pm**

Mark wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 12:04 pm
I AM wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 11:14 am We HAVE NOT REPENTED and are still under condemnation
for treating the Book of Mormon lightly,
as you do, "treating the Book of Mormon lightly",
because you think that these warnings do not apply to you and members of the church

this time - READ THE PARTS IN RED

as I just said

study ALL the scriptures.
you will find many of them in my comments in the links I give you.
for now, YOU are still a Gentile, and the Book of Mormon identifies YOU as one;
and ALL the warnings in the Book of Mormon are for YOU,
and all members more than ANYONE.

"If we are to accept the blessings pronounced to the “Gentiles” in the Book of Mormon, should we not seriously consider the warnings to the “Gentiles” that are pronounced throughout the Book of Mormon? "

So when the Book of Mormon says "Gentiles" They are
referring to all of us, (especially the church and it's members)
who live in this "choice land" - this fallen land of America.

Avraham Gileadi

"The repentant Gentiles are numbered with The House of Israel ONLY after they
perform their saving mission toward them.
The claim that Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel, descending through the mingled lineage of Ephraim, though true, is thus provisional.
Whether Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel ultimately depends on whether they fulfill their prophetic mission"

Gileadi
"As we learn how the scriptures define Gentiles, we also understand what they teach about the role of Latter-day Saints.
The popular notion of Gentiles as non-Mormons appears inadequate when we come to realize the message of The Book of Mormon."

"So long as we think of ourselves as the "good guys" in whatever scriptural scenario we are studying, for example, we will learn very little from the scriptures.
We will not be able to apply their historical lessons to ourselves.
Most important, we will end up with only a hypothetical role or mission to fulfill, one lacking a correct idea of self-identity and purpose.
The scriptures speak of The House of Israel as well as the Gentiles in terms of both good and evil. At the root of the question of identities, therefore, is not who is good and who is bad, but rather what mission God asks us to fulfill."

Avraham Gileadi
"Serving as Kings and Queens of the Gentiles"
http://www.josephandjudah.com/2016/05/s ... tiles.html

this is just a small part taken from his talk.

"Let us additionally assume that we aren't among those same Gentiles "in Zion" (2 Nephi 28:21, 24, 32) who "are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:14)-those who don't search the scriptures and repent of their error (cf. Jacob 7:23; Alma 14:1; 17:2 33:2; 3 Nephi 10:14) but who are "at ease in Zion" and assume "all is well" (2 Nephi 28:24-25). That we aren't among those who "hearken unto the precepts of men," who disallow "the power of God" in their lives and void "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:26)-those who say, "We have received, and we need no more" (2 Nephi 28:27, 29), who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31). That we aren't among those who end up denying the Lord God when his "arm"-his servant in the Book of Isaiah-"is lengthened out all the day long" (2 Nephi 28:32)."

You are now just being stubborn brother. You are not even considering the scriptures you are posting. How about this one:

3 Nephi Chapter 21
4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they (Gentiles) should be
established in this land,
and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father,
that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed,
that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted
with his people, O house of Israel;
22 But if they will repent and hearken unto my words,
and harden not their hearts,
I will establish my church among them (Gentiles), (the restored gospel our church today)
and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among
this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land
for their inheritance;

So look at verse 22 closely. The Lord is giving a condition upon which any person can "come in unto the covenant and be numbered among the remnant of Jacob". That condition is if they will 1. repent and 2. hearken unto His words and 3. harden not their hearts.

He then promises to establish his church among them and they are given the same promises and blessing given unto all of the House of Israel. That is all part of the Abrahamic covenant outlined in scripture. One can be from any blood lineage and still be given all the blessings and promises that the Lord is extending to all those of the House of Israel if they will do the 3 things the Lord has asked.

YOU sir are in absolutely no position to judge anyone as to their own heart and their own personal worthiness with God. Labeling all those from Ephraim or any lineage as gentiles shows that you do not understand the scriptures that you quote. Here what Joseph Fielding Smith said further about this issue:

“The members of the Church, most of us of the tribe of Ephraim, are of the remnant of Jacob. We know it to be the fact that the Lord called upon the descendants of Ephraim to commence his work in the earth in these last days. We know further that he has said that he set Ephraim, according to the promises of his birthright, at the head. Ephraim receives the ‘richer blessings,’ these blessings being those of presidency or direction. The keys are with Ephraim. It is Ephraim who is to be endowed with power to bless and give to the other tribes, including the Lamanites, their blessings. All the other tribes of Jacob, including the Lamanites, are to be crowned with glory in Zion by the hands of Ephraim. …

“That the remnants of Joseph, found among the descendants of Lehi, will have part in this great work is certainly consistent, and the great work of this restoration, the building of the temple and the City of Zion, or New Jerusalem, will fall to the lot of the descendants of Joseph, but it is Ephraim who will stand at the head and direct the work.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:250–51; italics in original removed.)

If you read Section 133 verses 26-35 it will be clear to you what Pres. Smith is talking about.

26 And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.

27 And an highway shall be cast up in the midst of the great deep.

28 Their enemies shall become a prey unto them,

29 And in the barren deserts there shall come forth pools of living water; and the parched ground shall no longer be a thirsty land.

30 And they shall bring forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants.

31 And the boundaries of the everlasting hills shall tremble at their presence.

32 And there shall they fall down and be crowned with glory, even in Zion, by the hands of the servants of the Lord, even the children of Ephraim.

33 And they shall be filled with songs of everlasting joy.

34 Behold, this is the blessing of the everlasting God upon the tribes of Israel, and the richer blessing upon the head of Ephraim and his fellows.

35 And they also of the tribe of Judah, after their pain, shall be sanctified in holiness before the Lord, to dwell in his presence day and night, forever and ever.

Gileadi vs Joseph Fielding Smith and the scriptures? Hmmm....Which one to pick?

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 3:42 pm**

drtanner wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 3:16 pm
Mark wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 12:04 pm
I AM wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 11:14 am We HAVE NOT REPENTED and are still under condemnation
for treating the Book of Mormon lightly,
as you do, "treating the Book of Mormon lightly",
because you think that these warnings do not apply to you and members of the church

this time - READ THE PARTS IN RED

as I just said

study ALL the scriptures.
you will find many of them in my comments in the links I give you.
for now, YOU are still a Gentile, and the Book of Mormon identifies YOU as one;
and ALL the warnings in the Book of Mormon are for YOU,
and all members more than ANYONE.

"If we are to accept the blessings pronounced to the “Gentiles” in the Book of Mormon, should we not seriously consider the warnings to the “Gentiles” that are pronounced throughout the Book of Mormon? "

So when the Book of Mormon says "Gentiles" They are
referring to all of us, (especially the church and it's members)
who live in this "choice land" - this fallen land of America.

Avraham Gileadi

"The repentant Gentiles are numbered with The House of Israel ONLY after they
perform their saving mission toward them.
The claim that Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel, descending through the mingled lineage of Ephraim, though true, is thus provisional.
Whether Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel ultimately depends on whether they fulfill their prophetic mission"

Gileadi
"As we learn how the scriptures define Gentiles, we also understand what they teach about the role of Latter-day Saints.
The popular notion of Gentiles as non-Mormons appears inadequate when we come to realize the message of The Book of Mormon."

"So long as we think of ourselves as the "good guys" in whatever scriptural scenario we are studying, for example, we will learn very little from the scriptures.
We will not be able to apply their historical lessons to ourselves.
Most important, we will end up with only a hypothetical role or mission to fulfill, one lacking a correct idea of self-identity and purpose.
The scriptures speak of The House of Israel as well as the Gentiles in terms of both good and evil. At the root of the question of identities, therefore, is not who is good and who is bad, but rather what mission God asks us to fulfill."

Avraham Gileadi
"Serving as Kings and Queens of the Gentiles"
http://www.josephandjudah.com/2016/05/s ... tiles.html

this is just a small part taken from his talk.

"Let us additionally assume that we aren't among those same Gentiles "in Zion" (2 Nephi 28:21, 24, 32) who "are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:14)-those who don't search the scriptures and repent of their error (cf. Jacob 7:23; Alma 14:1; 17:2 33:2; 3 Nephi 10:14) but who are "at ease in Zion" and assume "all is well" (2 Nephi 28:24-25). That we aren't among those who "hearken unto the precepts of men," who disallow "the power of God" in their lives and void "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:26)-those who say, "We have received, and we need no more" (2 Nephi 28:27, 29), who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31). That we aren't among those who end up denying the Lord God when his "arm"-his servant in the Book of Isaiah-"is lengthened out all the day long" (2 Nephi 28:32)."

You are now just being stubborn brother. You are not even considering the scriptures you are posting. How about this one:

3 Nephi Chapter 21
4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they (Gentiles) should be
established in this land,
and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father,
that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed,
that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted
with his people, O house of Israel;
22 But if they will repent and hearken unto my words,
and harden not their hearts,
I will establish my church among them (Gentiles), (the restored gospel our church today)
and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among
this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land
for their inheritance;

So look at verse 22 closely. The Lord is giving a condition upon which any person can "come in unto the covenant and be numbered among the remnant of Jacob". That condition is if they will 1. repent and 2. hearken unto His words and 3. harden not their hearts.

He then promises to establish his church among them and they are given the same promises and blessing given unto all of the House of Israel. That is all part of the Abrahamic covenant outlined in scripture. One can be from any blood lineage and still be given all the blessings and promises that the Lord is extending to all those of the House of Israel if they will do the 3 things the Lord has asked.

YOU sir are in absolutely no position to judge anyone as to their own heart and their own personal worthiness with God. Labeling all those from Ephraim or any lineage as gentiles shows that you do not understand the scriptures that you quote. Here what Joseph Fielding Smith said further about this issue:

“The members of the Church, most of us of the tribe of Ephraim, are of the remnant of Jacob. We know it to be the fact that the Lord called upon the descendants of Ephraim to commence his work in the earth in these last days. We know further that he has said that he set Ephraim, according to the promises of his birthright, at the head. Ephraim receives the ‘richer blessings,’ these blessings being those of presidency or direction. The keys are with Ephraim. It is Ephraim who is to be endowed with power to bless and give to the other tribes, including the Lamanites, their blessings. All the other tribes of Jacob, including the Lamanites, are to be crowned with glory in Zion by the hands of Ephraim. …

“That the remnants of Joseph, found among the descendants of Lehi, will have part in this great work is certainly consistent, and the great work of this restoration, the building of the temple and the City of Zion, or New Jerusalem, will fall to the lot of the descendants of Joseph, but it is Ephraim who will stand at the head and direct the work.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:250–51; italics in original removed.)

If you read Section 133 verses 26-35 it will be clear to you what Pres. Smith is talking about.

26 And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.

27 And an highway shall be cast up in the midst of the great deep.

28 Their enemies shall become a prey unto them,

29 And in the barren deserts there shall come forth pools of living water; and the parched ground shall no longer be a thirsty land.

30 And they shall bring forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants.

31 And the boundaries of the everlasting hills shall tremble at their presence.

32 And there shall they fall down and be crowned with glory, even in Zion, by the hands of the servants of the Lord, even the children of Ephraim.

33 And they shall be filled with songs of everlasting joy.

34 Behold, this is the blessing of the everlasting God upon the tribes of Israel, and the richer blessing upon the head of Ephraim and his fellows.

35 And they also of the tribe of Judah, after their pain, shall be sanctified in holiness before the Lord, to dwell in his presence day and night, forever and ever.
Gileadi vs Joseph Fielding Smith and the scriptures? Hmmm....Which one to pick?

---------------
most definitely Gileadi.
so many proud members that have to put church leaders first - falsely thinking that they know everything
just because they're in a position of authority,
when in reality, most church leaders don't know the scriptures as well as some members that are scholars
and have studied the scriptures their whole life, and like Gileadi, dedicating his whole life to it.

Not to mention that leaders of the church only parrot each other,
and rely on "precepts of men" instead of God,
and only parrot back the same thing.

and that is
" All is well in Zion "

21 And others will he pacify,
and lull them away into carnal security,
that they will say: All is well in Zion;
yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—
and thus the devil cheateth their souls,
and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

2 Nephi 28:21,24,25

"Ephraim’s mode of learning is still “line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little” (saw lasaw saw lasaw qaw laqaw qaw laqaw ze‘ir sam ze‘ir sam). Assonance and alliteration parody their rote method of learning that consists of parroting back what their leaders teach."

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 3:54 pm**

Mark wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 12:04 pm
I AM wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 11:14 am We HAVE NOT REPENTED and are still under condemnation
for treating the Book of Mormon lightly,
as you do, "treating the Book of Mormon lightly",
because you think that these warnings do not apply to you and members of the church

this time - READ THE PARTS IN RED

as I just said

study ALL the scriptures.
you will find many of them in my comments in the links I give you.
for now, YOU are still a Gentile, and the Book of Mormon identifies YOU as one;
and ALL the warnings in the Book of Mormon are for YOU,
and all members more than ANYONE.

"If we are to accept the blessings pronounced to the “Gentiles” in the Book of Mormon, should we not seriously consider the warnings to the “Gentiles” that are pronounced throughout the Book of Mormon? "

So when the Book of Mormon says "Gentiles" They are
referring to all of us, (especially the church and it's members)
who live in this "choice land" - this fallen land of America.

Avraham Gileadi

"The repentant Gentiles are numbered with The House of Israel ONLY after they
perform their saving mission toward them.
The claim that Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel, descending through the mingled lineage of Ephraim, though true, is thus provisional.
Whether Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel ultimately depends on whether they fulfill their prophetic mission"

Gileadi
"As we learn how the scriptures define Gentiles, we also understand what they teach about the role of Latter-day Saints.
The popular notion of Gentiles as non-Mormons appears inadequate when we come to realize the message of The Book of Mormon."

"So long as we think of ourselves as the "good guys" in whatever scriptural scenario we are studying, for example, we will learn very little from the scriptures.
We will not be able to apply their historical lessons to ourselves.
Most important, we will end up with only a hypothetical role or mission to fulfill, one lacking a correct idea of self-identity and purpose.
The scriptures speak of The House of Israel as well as the Gentiles in terms of both good and evil. At the root of the question of identities, therefore, is not who is good and who is bad, but rather what mission God asks us to fulfill."

Avraham Gileadi
"Serving as Kings and Queens of the Gentiles"
http://www.josephandjudah.com/2016/05/s ... tiles.html

this is just a small part taken from his talk.

"Let us additionally assume that we aren't among those same Gentiles "in Zion" (2 Nephi 28:21, 24, 32) who "are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:14)-those who don't search the scriptures and repent of their error (cf. Jacob 7:23; Alma 14:1; 17:2 33:2; 3 Nephi 10:14) but who are "at ease in Zion" and assume "all is well" (2 Nephi 28:24-25). That we aren't among those who "hearken unto the precepts of men," who disallow "the power of God" in their lives and void "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:26)-those who say, "We have received, and we need no more" (2 Nephi 28:27, 29), who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31). That we aren't among those who end up denying the Lord God when his "arm"-his servant in the Book of Isaiah-"is lengthened out all the day long" (2 Nephi 28:32)."

You are now just being stubborn brother. You are not even considering the scriptures you are posting. How about this one:

3 Nephi Chapter 21
4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they (Gentiles) should be
established in this land,
and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father,
that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed,
that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted
with his people, O house of Israel;
22 But if they will repent and hearken unto my words,
and harden not their hearts,
I will establish my church among them (Gentiles), (the restored gospel our church today)
and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among
this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land
for their inheritance;

So look at verse 22 closely. The Lord is giving a condition upon which any person can "come in unto the covenant and be numbered among the remnant of Jacob". That condition is if they will 1. repent and 2. hearken unto His words and 3. harden not their hearts.

He then promises to establish his church among them and they are given the same promises and blessing given unto all of the House of Israel. That is all part of the Abrahamic covenant outlined in scripture. One can be from any blood lineage and still be given all the blessings and promises that the Lord is extending to all those of the House of Israel if they will do the 3 things the Lord has asked.

YOU sir are in absolutely no position to judge anyone as to their own heart and their own personal worthiness with God. Labeling all those from Ephraim or any lineage as gentiles shows that you do not understand the scriptures that you quote. Here what Joseph Fielding Smith said further about this issue:

“The members of the Church, most of us of the tribe of Ephraim, are of the remnant of Jacob. We know it to be the fact that the Lord called upon the descendants of Ephraim to commence his work in the earth in these last days. We know further that he has said that he set Ephraim, according to the promises of his birthright, at the head. Ephraim receives the ‘richer blessings,’ these blessings being those of presidency or direction. The keys are with Ephraim. It is Ephraim who is to be endowed with power to bless and give to the other tribes, including the Lamanites, their blessings. All the other tribes of Jacob, including the Lamanites, are to be crowned with glory in Zion by the hands of Ephraim. …

“That the remnants of Joseph, found among the descendants of Lehi, will have part in this great work is certainly consistent, and the great work of this restoration, the building of the temple and the City of Zion, or New Jerusalem, will fall to the lot of the descendants of Joseph, but it is Ephraim who will stand at the head and direct the work.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:250–51; italics in original removed.)

If you read Section 133 verses 26-35 it will be clear to you what Pres. Smith is talking about.

26 And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.

27 And an highway shall be cast up in the midst of the great deep.

28 Their enemies shall become a prey unto them,

29 And in the barren deserts there shall come forth pools of living water; and the parched ground shall no longer be a thirsty land.

30 And they shall bring forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants.

31 And the boundaries of the everlasting hills shall tremble at their presence.

32 And there shall they fall down and be crowned with glory, even in Zion, by the hands of the servants of the Lord, even the children of Ephraim.

33 And they shall be filled with songs of everlasting joy.

34 Behold, this is the blessing of the everlasting God upon the tribes of Israel, and the richer blessing upon the head of Ephraim and his fellows.

35 And they also of the tribe of Judah, after their pain, shall be sanctified in holiness before the Lord, to dwell in his presence day and night, forever and ever.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

by the (list of things members have done, and continue to do )
that I put in my other comment below,
looks like Mark that you are doing the things that you're not to do
if you want to some day be numbered among The House of Israel

"who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31)"

**** EDIT ****
I don't know, maybe it's all of the things listed.

* ( list of things members have done, and continue to do )
"Let us additionally assume that we aren't among those same Gentiles "in Zion" (2 Nephi 28:21, 24, 32) who "are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:14)-those who don't search the scriptures and repent of their error (cf. Jacob 7:23; Alma 14:1; 17:2 33:2; 3 Nephi 10:14) but who are "at ease in Zion" and assume "all is well" (2 Nephi 28:24-25). That we aren't among those who "hearken unto the precepts of men," who disallow "the power of God" in their lives and void "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:26)-those who say, "We have received, and we need no more" (2 Nephi 28:27, 29),
who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31). That we aren't among those who end up denying the Lord God when his "arm"-his servant in the Book of Isaiah-"is lengthened out all the day long" (2 Nephi 28:32)."

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 10:23 pm**

braingrunt wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 11:23 am who said all is well? Ya'll might not be listening.

Whatever

The thread is titled "Do any BofM warnings to the gentiles refer to the LDS?"
I posted an example of a warning in the BofM that is definitely and specifically directed tot he LDS. End of Line.
I didn't make any statement about anyone saying all is well (although some do, for sure. Not saying leaders, but definitely a big problem among the members, I'd say ESPECIALLY the Utah contingent - but I don't really know many outside Utah so maybe it's a problem there too.

Step the attitude back.

Posted: **April 19th, 2019, 8:22 am**

I AM wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 3:54 pm
Mark wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 12:04 pm
I AM wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 11:14 am We HAVE NOT REPENTED and are still under condemnation
for treating the Book of Mormon lightly,
as you do, "treating the Book of Mormon lightly",
because you think that these warnings do not apply to you and members of the church

this time - READ THE PARTS IN RED

as I just said

study ALL the scriptures.
you will find many of them in my comments in the links I give you.
for now, YOU are still a Gentile, and the Book of Mormon identifies YOU as one;
and ALL the warnings in the Book of Mormon are for YOU,
and all members more than ANYONE.

"If we are to accept the blessings pronounced to the “Gentiles” in the Book of Mormon, should we not seriously consider the warnings to the “Gentiles” that are pronounced throughout the Book of Mormon? "

So when the Book of Mormon says "Gentiles" They are
referring to all of us, (especially the church and it's members)
who live in this "choice land" - this fallen land of America.

Avraham Gileadi

"The repentant Gentiles are numbered with The House of Israel ONLY after they
perform their saving mission toward them.
The claim that Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel, descending through the mingled lineage of Ephraim, though true, is thus provisional.
Whether Latter-Day Saints are of the House of Israel ultimately depends on whether they fulfill their prophetic mission"

Gileadi
"As we learn how the scriptures define Gentiles, we also understand what they teach about the role of Latter-day Saints.
The popular notion of Gentiles as non-Mormons appears inadequate when we come to realize the message of The Book of Mormon."

"So long as we think of ourselves as the "good guys" in whatever scriptural scenario we are studying, for example, we will learn very little from the scriptures.
We will not be able to apply their historical lessons to ourselves.
Most important, we will end up with only a hypothetical role or mission to fulfill, one lacking a correct idea of self-identity and purpose.
The scriptures speak of The House of Israel as well as the Gentiles in terms of both good and evil. At the root of the question of identities, therefore, is not who is good and who is bad, but rather what mission God asks us to fulfill."

Avraham Gileadi
"Serving as Kings and Queens of the Gentiles"
http://www.josephandjudah.com/2016/05/s ... tiles.html

this is just a small part taken from his talk.

"Let us additionally assume that we aren't among those same Gentiles "in Zion" (2 Nephi 28:21, 24, 32) who "are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:14)-those who don't search the scriptures and repent of their error (cf. Jacob 7:23; Alma 14:1; 17:2 33:2; 3 Nephi 10:14) but who are "at ease in Zion" and assume "all is well" (2 Nephi 28:24-25). That we aren't among those who "hearken unto the precepts of men," who disallow "the power of God" in their lives and void "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:26)-those who say, "We have received, and we need no more" (2 Nephi 28:27, 29), who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31). That we aren't among those who end up denying the Lord God when his "arm"-his servant in the Book of Isaiah-"is lengthened out all the day long" (2 Nephi 28:32)."

You are now just being stubborn brother. You are not even considering the scriptures you are posting. How about this one:

3 Nephi Chapter 21
4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they (Gentiles) should be
established in this land,
and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father,
that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed,
that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted
with his people, O house of Israel;
22 But if they will repent and hearken unto my words,
and harden not their hearts,
I will establish my church among them (Gentiles), (the restored gospel our church today)
and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among
this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land
for their inheritance;

So look at verse 22 closely. The Lord is giving a condition upon which any person can "come in unto the covenant and be numbered among the remnant of Jacob". That condition is if they will 1. repent and 2. hearken unto His words and 3. harden not their hearts.

He then promises to establish his church among them and they are given the same promises and blessing given unto all of the House of Israel. That is all part of the Abrahamic covenant outlined in scripture. One can be from any blood lineage and still be given all the blessings and promises that the Lord is extending to all those of the House of Israel if they will do the 3 things the Lord has asked.

YOU sir are in absolutely no position to judge anyone as to their own heart and their own personal worthiness with God. Labeling all those from Ephraim or any lineage as gentiles shows that you do not understand the scriptures that you quote. Here what Joseph Fielding Smith said further about this issue:

“The members of the Church, most of us of the tribe of Ephraim, are of the remnant of Jacob. We know it to be the fact that the Lord called upon the descendants of Ephraim to commence his work in the earth in these last days. We know further that he has said that he set Ephraim, according to the promises of his birthright, at the head. Ephraim receives the ‘richer blessings,’ these blessings being those of presidency or direction. The keys are with Ephraim. It is Ephraim who is to be endowed with power to bless and give to the other tribes, including the Lamanites, their blessings. All the other tribes of Jacob, including the Lamanites, are to be crowned with glory in Zion by the hands of Ephraim. …

“That the remnants of Joseph, found among the descendants of Lehi, will have part in this great work is certainly consistent, and the great work of this restoration, the building of the temple and the City of Zion, or New Jerusalem, will fall to the lot of the descendants of Joseph, but it is Ephraim who will stand at the head and direct the work.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:250–51; italics in original removed.)

If you read Section 133 verses 26-35 it will be clear to you what Pres. Smith is talking about.

26 And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.

27 And an highway shall be cast up in the midst of the great deep.

28 Their enemies shall become a prey unto them,

29 And in the barren deserts there shall come forth pools of living water; and the parched ground shall no longer be a thirsty land.

30 And they shall bring forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants.

31 And the boundaries of the everlasting hills shall tremble at their presence.

32 And there shall they fall down and be crowned with glory, even in Zion, by the hands of the servants of the Lord, even the children of Ephraim.

33 And they shall be filled with songs of everlasting joy.

34 Behold, this is the blessing of the everlasting God upon the tribes of Israel, and the richer blessing upon the head of Ephraim and his fellows.

35 And they also of the tribe of Judah, after their pain, shall be sanctified in holiness before the Lord, to dwell in his presence day and night, forever and ever.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

by the (list of things members have done, and continue to do )
that I put in my other comment below,
looks like Mark that you are doing the things that you're not to do
if you want to some day be numbered among The House of Israel

"who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31)"

**** EDIT ****
I don't know, maybe it's all of the things listed.

* ( list of things members have done, and continue to do )
"Let us additionally assume that we aren't among those same Gentiles "in Zion" (2 Nephi 28:21, 24, 32) who "are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:14)-those who don't search the scriptures and repent of their error (cf. Jacob 7:23; Alma 14:1; 17:2 33:2; 3 Nephi 10:14) but who are "at ease in Zion" and assume "all is well" (2 Nephi 28:24-25). That we aren't among those who "hearken unto the precepts of men," who disallow "the power of God" in their lives and void "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:26)-those who say, "We have received, and we need no more" (2 Nephi 28:27, 29),
who get "angry" when confronted with "the truth of God" found in the scriptures when it conflicts with their "precepts of men" (2 Nephi 28:28, 31). That we aren't among those who end up denying the Lord God when his "arm"-his servant in the Book of Isaiah-"is lengthened out all the day long" (2 Nephi 28:32)."

[/quote]

I think I get it now. If anyone disagrees with I AM or Gileadi's interpretation of any scripture they are automatically a Gentile and are labeled angry for questioning I AM or Gileadi's mindset. Okay then. Carry on.

Posted: **April 19th, 2019, 9:43 am**

it's not me, or Gileadi
I'm NOBODY - I just want to put THE WORD (Jesus Christ) of God first
and find the truth in the scriptures.
Our scriptures are the most important thing we have and speak for themselves if you even give them the chance.

A well known LDS writer once wrote a
foreword in a book and said -
"This book might well be entitled
"What you always wanted to know about the Gospel
but were too lazy to find out."
"All answers are in the scriptures, but Latter-day Saints
do not read the scriptures."
Hugh Nibley

READ OUR SCRIPTURES !
All the answers are contained in them.

this is the book
READ IT ! you just might learn something about Gentiles
and will never see the church the way you did before.

Posted: **April 19th, 2019, 8:57 pm**

I AM wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 9:43 am it's not me, or Gileadi
I'm NOBODY - I just want to put THE WORD (Jesus Christ) of God first
and find the truth in the scriptures.
Our scriptures are the most important thing we have and speak for themselves if you even give them the chance.

A well known LDS writer once wrote a
foreword in a book and said -
"This book might well be entitled
"What you always wanted to know about the Gospel
but were too lazy to find out."
"All answers are in the scriptures, but Latter-day Saints
do not read the scriptures."
Hugh Nibley

READ OUR SCRIPTURES !
All the answers are contained in them.

this is the book
READ IT ! you just might learn something about Gentiles
and will never see the church the way you did before.

The problem isnt that members don't "read" the scriptures. A member of this forum in a different thread claims he has read the book of Mormon "over 20 times and reads it every day."

The thing is, a man/woman can get more out of the BoM reading it one time, SEARCHING it with the spirit as their guide, than a person who reads it a hundred times just so they can brag about how many times theyve read it. All of these Book of Mormon challenges, sure they are good to a certain extent, but it makes reading the BoM another checklist item with very little value. You can read the Book of Mormon for two hours a day and still be guilty of taking it lightly.

Posted: **April 19th, 2019, 9:54 pm**

Original_Intent wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 11:17 am Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion! Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!” ( 2 Nephi 28:21, 24-25 )

I don’t know, man. Is this a literal fulfillment for you? That entire chapter is all future stuff. And in that time the dynamics of what we know now as the church could altogether change by then. So, I’d say more of a shadow fulfillment.

Posted: **April 19th, 2019, 9:55 pm**

Jonesy wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 9:54 pm
Original_Intent wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 11:17 am Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion! Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!” ( 2 Nephi 28:21, 24-25 )
I don’t know, man. Is this a literal fulfillment for you? That entire chapter is all future stuff. And in that time the dynamics of what we know now as the church could altogether change by then. So, I’d say more of a shadow fulfillment.

No, I'm not stating a fulfillment, I am stating a warning intended for LDS.

Posted: **April 19th, 2019, 11:31 pm**

Original_Intent wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 9:55 pm
Jonesy wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 9:54 pm
Original_Intent wrote: ↑April 18th, 2019, 11:17 am Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion! Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!” ( 2 Nephi 28:21, 24-25 )
I don’t know, man. Is this a literal fulfillment for you? That entire chapter is all future stuff. And in that time the dynamics of what we know now as the church could altogether change by then. So, I’d say more of a shadow fulfillment.
No, I'm not stating a fulfillment, I am stating a warning intended for LDS.

Yeah, I guess. This is why I say the dynamics change in the future. There will be many churches built, and not unto the Lord. I think apostate Mormon churches. If anything, it emphasizes the need to be those who are the true, humble followers of Christ so we can recognize and see where and how God will work so He can correct us.

Posted: **April 20th, 2019, 10:18 am**

Hosh4710 wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 8:57 pm
I AM wrote: ↑April 19th, 2019, 9:43 am it's not me, or Gileadi
I'm NOBODY - I just want to put THE WORD (Jesus Christ) of God first
and find the truth in the scriptures.
Our scriptures are the most important thing we have and speak for themselves if you even give them the chance.

A well known LDS writer once wrote a
foreword in a book and said -
"This book might well be entitled
"What you always wanted to know about the Gospel
but were too lazy to find out."
"All answers are in the scriptures, but Latter-day Saints
do not read the scriptures."
Hugh Nibley

READ OUR SCRIPTURES !
All the answers are contained in them.

this is the book
READ IT ! you just might learn something about Gentiles
and will never see the church the way you did before.

The problem isnt that members don't "read" the scriptures. A member of this forum in a different thread claims he has read the book of Mormon "over 20 times and reads it every day."

The thing is, a man/woman can get more out of the BoM reading it one time, SEARCHING it with the spirit as their guide, than a person who reads it a hundred times just so they can brag about how many times theyve read it. All of these Book of Mormon challenges, sure they are good to a certain extent, but it makes reading the BoM another checklist item with very little value. You can read the Book of Mormon for two hours a day and still be guilty of taking it lightly.

----------------
I totally agree;
you can read the Book of Mormon 100 times,
but unless you have the spirit with you while doing it - the Holy Ghost teaching you and testifying the truth of it to you - you have never read it once,
which unfortunately I think is the case for most members.

I will have to disagree with you though about members reading the scriptures.
It's not only that they do not read the scriptures, more importantly,
they do not place that much importance on the word of God.
They're more concerned, and their mind set is more on "follow the prophet" ,
and "all is well in Zion " and in the church.
and care much more what church leaders say, and put that first,
even more than the words of Jesus Christ and His doctrine.
(if you can believe it ! )
I see so may quote church leaders, and believe in them, but not scriptures.
This is ridiculous to me, and is the very reason why the church is still under condemnation -
for treating the Book of Mormon lightly, and CARING MORE about
what church leaders say, and their "precepts of men "
than they do the words of Jesus Christ.
This is why we are in apostasy, and why we will reject the Lord's end-time servant
when he comes with Christ's words - ( the sealed portion ).

D&C 45:28-31
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;

29 BUT THEY RECEIVE IT NOT;
for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

Just look at the few in this forum, the hand full that use scripture to
prove their point. There is really only a few.
Most of the time what I see in this forum is useless bickering, going back and forth usually on subjects that don't even matter, trying to prove their point
to the other person and why they are right.
What a waste of time.
I post more scriptures in this forum than anyone.
WHY ? Because, the word of God is more important than ANYTHING !
or anyone's opinion, and needs to be respected, (which members do not)
and put FIRST ABOVE EVERYTHING - IT'S THE LAW
The law we live by, the law we will be judged by.

WAKE UP ! GENTILES !
AND READ THE WORD OF GOD !

Posted: **April 20th, 2019, 11:32 am**

Its not just about posting more scriptures than anyone. The word of God more importantly refers to the Words of Christ we receive by revelation. The Law is the measure of light each man has been given in his own sphere according to the heed and diligence he gives to the Law/light he already has been given. The more one obeys the Law/light, the more he will be given.

I agree with most of what you you said. I only make this distinction because the Jews were experts in the scriptures. They believed the scriptures were the end all say all. Really, the end all say all is the Word of God as given to us by th Holy Ghost. This is the Law we are to live by. The scriptures are a crucial ingredient in this process though you are right. They should be the measuring stick by whch we measure every mans doctrine. Unfortunately, as you said, many today say lds leaders words trump "dead prophets" words. They use the precepts of men as the measuring stick and any scriptures that do not agree with the words of current leaders, they disregard. It truly is an awful situation we are in, but it is all in the Lords hands. He is allowing the wheat and the tares to grow together for a season. There truly is a divine purpose for everything that is happening.

Posted: **April 20th, 2019, 8:15 pm**

Hosh4710 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2019, 11:32 am Its not just about posting more scriptures than anyone. The word of God more importantly refers to the Words of Christ we receive by revelation. The Law is the measure of light each man has been given in his own sphere according to the heed and diligence he gives to the Law/light he already has been given. The more one obeys the Law/light, the more he will be given.

I agree with most of what you you said. I only make this distinction because the Jews were experts in the scriptures. They believed the scriptures were the end all say all. Really, the end all say all is the Word of God as given to us by th Holy Ghost. This is the Law we are to live by. The scriptures are a crucial ingredient in this process though you are right. They should be the measuring stick by whch we measure every mans doctrine. Unfortunately, as you said, many today say lds leaders words trump "dead prophets" words. They use the precepts of men as the measuring stick and any scriptures that do not agree with the words of current leaders, they disregard. It truly is an awful situation we are in, but it is all in the Lords hands. He is allowing the wheat and the tares to grow together for a season. There truly is a divine purpose for everything that is happening.

-------------
again, I totally agree,
but I don't think that that is what the Lord had in mind - "the Words of Christ we receive by revelation" ,
when He said "my words" in the scriptures below,.
He is talking about the scriptures.

2 Nephi 29

2 And also, that I may remember the promises which I have made unto thee, Nephi, and also unto thy father, that I would remember your seed; and that the words of your seed should proceed forth out of my mouth unto your seed; and my words shall hiss forth unto the ends of the earth, for a standard unto my people, which are of the house of Israel;

3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.

And I'm sorry if you thought I was bragging about posting more scriptures than anyone.
I'm not proud in any way just because I post a lot of scriptures.
But we DO have the Book of Mormon for a reason.
And it's not just to casually look at once in a while.
Also, the Lord has specifically given us a commandment
to not only read certain scriptures but to "search these things diligently".
3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

So I post these scriptures for a very important reason.

There are very important words for us to read that the Lord wants us to read.
There is a message, and warnings specifically for us as Gentiles.
So when so many members think that we are not even Gentiles,
and that these warnings and judgments to the Gentiles
are not for them - you can see the problem,
and THE NEED TO QUOTE THE WORD OF GOD.
So for me, it IS about posting scriptures,
and I will continue to do what I have been impressed by the spirit to do.

Posted: **April 20th, 2019, 8:24 pm**

I AM wrote: ↑April 20th, 2019, 8:15 pm
Hosh4710 wrote: ↑April 20th, 2019, 11:32 am Its not just about posting more scriptures than anyone. The word of God more importantly refers to the Words of Christ we receive by revelation. The Law is the measure of light each man has been given in his own sphere according to the heed and diligence he gives to the Law/light he already has been given. The more one obeys the Law/light, the more he will be given.

I agree with most of what you you said. I only make this distinction because the Jews were experts in the scriptures. They believed the scriptures were the end all say all. Really, the end all say all is the Word of God as given to us by th Holy Ghost. This is the Law we are to live by. The scriptures are a crucial ingredient in this process though you are right. They should be the measuring stick by whch we measure every mans doctrine. Unfortunately, as you said, many today say lds leaders words trump "dead prophets" words. They use the precepts of men as the measuring stick and any scriptures that do not agree with the words of current leaders, they disregard. It truly is an awful situation we are in, but it is all in the Lords hands. He is allowing the wheat and the tares to grow together for a season. There truly is a divine purpose for everything that is happening.
-------------
again, I totally agree,
but I don't think that that is what the Lord had in mind - "the Words of Christ we receive by revelation" ,
when He said "my words" in the scriptures below,.
He is talking about the scriptures.

2 Nephi 29

2 And also, that I may remember the promises which I have made unto thee, Nephi, and also unto thy father, that I would remember your seed; and that the words of your seed should proceed forth out of my mouth unto your seed; and my words shall hiss forth unto the ends of the earth, for a standard unto my people, which are of the house of Israel;

3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.

And I'm sorry if you thought I was bragging about posting more scriptures than anyone.
I'm not proud in any way just because I post a lot of scriptures.
But we DO have the Book of Mormon for a reason.
And it's not just to casually look at once in a while.
Also, the Lord has specifically given us a commandment
to not only read certain scriptures but to "search these things diligently".
3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

So I post these scriptures for a very important reason.

There are very important words for us to read that the Lord wants us to read.
There is a message, and warnings specifically for us as Gentiles.
So when so many members think that we are not even Gentiles,
and that these warnings and judgments to the Gentiles
are not for them - you can see the problem,
and THE NEED TO QUOTE THE WORD OF GOD.
So for me, it IS about posting scriptures,
and I will continue to do what I have been impressed by the spirit to do.

I'm with you brother. I agree that's what is meant in those chapters/verses.

Posted: **April 21st, 2019, 12:27 pm**

I'm crying and sighing. I'm crying and sighing!

LDS Freedom Forum

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Re: Do any BoM warnings to the Gentiles refer to the LDS?

Re: Do any BoM warnings to the Gentiles refer to the LDS?

Re: Do any BoM warnings to the Gentiles refer to the LDS?

Re: Do any BoM warnings to the Gentiles refer to the LDS?