LDS Freedom Forum

As I sit in church and listen in on conversations and as I occasionally read online material here on this forum and others, I am struck by the very powerful feeling that all too many church members do not really believe the Book of Mormon. When I consider everything I read and hear, I cannot really believe that they take it literally and that they think it is nothing more than a moral historical novel. How in the world can any member read this wonderful book and not come away deeply concerned over what is happening today and how it parallels the events portrayed by Mormon? In our family reading tonight, we were reading in Helaman.

21 But behold, Satan did stir up the hearts of the more part of the Nephites, insomuch that they did unite with those bands of robbers, and did enter into their covenants and their oaths, that they would protect and preserve one another in whatsoever difficult circumstances they should be placed, that they should not suffer for their murders, and their plunderings, and their stealings.
22 And it came to pass that they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he should not be injured by his brother, nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this covenant.
23 And thus they might murder, and plunder, and steal, and commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness, contrary to the laws of their country and also the laws of their God.
24 And whosoever of those who belonged to their band should reveal unto the world of their wickedness and their abominations, should be tried, not according to the laws of their country, but according to the laws of their wickedness, which had been given by Gadianton and Kishkumen.
25 Now behold, it is these secret oaths and covenants which Alma commanded his son should not go forth unto the world, lest they should be a means of bringing down the people unto destruction.
(Helaman 6:21–25)

38 And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.
39 And thus they did obtain the sole management of the government, insomuch that they did trample under their feet and smite and rend and turn their backs upon the poor and the meek, and the humble followers of God.
(Helaman 6:38–39)

How can anyone read this book and not see that this is happening today? I think it's the "all is well in Zion" syndrome that has overtaken much of the membership.

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: ↑April 14th, 2019, 5:22 am As I sit in church and listen in on conversations and as I occasionally read online material here on this forum and others, I am struck by the very powerful feeling that all too many church members do not really believe the Book of Mormon. When I consider everything I read and hear, I cannot really believe that they take it literally and that they think it is nothing more than a moral historical novel. How in the world can any member read this wonderful book and not come away deeply concerned over what is happening today and how it parallels the events portrayed by Mormon? In our family reading tonight, we were reading in Helaman.

21 But behold, Satan did stir up the hearts of the more part of the Nephites, insomuch that they did unite with those bands of robbers, and did enter into their covenants and their oaths, that they would protect and preserve one another in whatsoever difficult circumstances they should be placed, that they should not suffer for their murders, and their plunderings, and their stealings.
22 And it came to pass that they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he should not be injured by his brother, nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this covenant.
23 And thus they might murder, and plunder, and steal, and commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness, contrary to the laws of their country and also the laws of their God.
24 And whosoever of those who belonged to their band should reveal unto the world of their wickedness and their abominations, should be tried, not according to the laws of their country, but according to the laws of their wickedness, which had been given by Gadianton and Kishkumen.
25 Now behold, it is these secret oaths and covenants which Alma commanded his son should not go forth unto the world, lest they should be a means of bringing down the people unto destruction.
(Helaman 6:21–25)

38 And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.
39 And thus they did obtain the sole management of the government, insomuch that they did trample under their feet and smite and rend and turn their backs upon the poor and the meek, and the humble followers of God.
(Helaman 6:38–39)

How can anyone read this book and not see that this is happening today? I think it's the "all is well in Zion" syndrome that has overtaken much of the membership.

Of course all is well in Zion .. What is your problem, we are Gods chosen people, the chosen sheep, we have an unconditional promise that we will not be led astray, guaranteed, even in writing. We are smoothly rolling right on into the Millennium on a nice broad and wide perfectly level paved highway of pure white gold....

No

Its a hard thing to witness. We are truly in the process of fulfilling much prophecy by our unbelief.

Plenty of parables in the Bible that didn't "happen" but are nonetheless true.

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: ↑April 14th, 2019, 5:22 amHow can anyone read this book and not see that this is happening today? I think it's the "all is well in Zion" syndrome that has overtaken much of the membership.

A lot of members, foolishly, don't believe in Secret Combinations or misidentify them as something lesser than what they are in reality.

This may fit here nicely, while on the subject of the Book of Mormon..
Reflections of Sami Hanna as recorded by Elder Russell M. Nelson, apostle for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: (Adapted from an address given 25 June 1992 at a seminar for new mission presidents, Missionary Training Center, Provo, Utah.)
My neighbor, Sami Hanna, is a native Egyptian. He is an academic scholar who moved into our neighborhood to accept an assignment with the university as a specialist in Middle Eastern Studies and the Semitic group of languages such as Arabic, Abyssinian, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Assyrian.
Being a newcomer into our community, he felt the Mormons were a bit of a curiosity. Upon learning the name Mormon came from our belief that the Book of Mormon is divine scripture, he was intrigued by the existence of the Book of Mormon. He had erroneously thought this was American literature. When he was told that the Book of Mormon was translated from the ancient Egyptian or modified Hebrew type of hieroglyphic into the English language by the prophet Joseph Smith, he became even more engrossed, for this was his native language and he knows much about the other Semitic languages as well as the modern languages.
So challenged was he by this book that he embarked on the project of translating the Book of Mormon from English to Arabic. This translation was different from other translators, for this was to be a translation back to the original language of the book. To make a long story short, the process of this translation became the process of his conversion; for he soon knew the Book of Mormon to be a divine document even though he knew virtually nothing of the organization of the Church or of its programs. His conversion came purely from the linguistics of the book which he found could not have been composed by an American, no matter how gifted.
Some of these observations I think will be of interest to you, as they were to me, for they clarify some of the unique aspects of the book.
1. Jarom 2: “It musts needs be…” This expression, odd and awkward in English, is excellent Arabic grammar. Elsewhere in the book the use of the compound verbs “did eat”, “did go”, “did smile” again awkward and rarely used in English, are classical and correct grammar in the Semitic languages.
2. Omni 18: “Zarahemla gave a genealogy of his fathers, according to his memory. Brother Hanna indicates that this is a typical custom of his Semitic forbearers to recite their genealogy from memory.
3. Words of Mormon 17: Reference is made here as in other parts of the Book of Mormon, to the “stiffneckedness” of his people. Brother Hanna perceives that this word would be a very unusual word for an American youth, Joseph Smith, to use. An American would likely prefer an adjective such as stubborn or inflexible. But the custom in the Arabic language is to use just such a descriptive adjective. Stiffnecked is an adjective they use in describing an obstinate person.
4. Mosiah 11:8 “King Noah built many elegant and spacious buildings and ornamented them with fine work and precious things, including ziff.” Have you ever wondered about the meaning of the word “ziff” referred to in this scripture? This word, although in the Book of Mormon, is not contained in dictionaries of the English language. Yet it translates freely back into the Arabic language, for ziff is a special kind of curved sword somewhat like a scimitar which is carried in a sheath and often used for ornamentation as well as for more practical purposes. The discovery of the word “ziff” in the Book of Mormon really excited my neighbor, Brother Hanna.
5. Alma 63:11 Reference is made to Helaman, son of Helaman. Why did not Joseph Smith interpret this as Helaman, Jr., which would have been more logical for him, bearing the same name as his father, Joseph, and being named Joseph Smith, Jr. In Arabic, Brother Hanna explains, there is no word “junior” to cover this circumstance. Their custom is to use the terminology Joseph, son of Joseph; Helaman, son of Helaman, etc.
6. Helaman 1:3 Here reference is made to the contending for the judgment seat. Brother Hanna observes that the use of the term “judgment seat” would be quite strange to an American who might have used a more familiar noun such as governor, president, or ruler. Yet, in Arabic custom, the place of power rests in the judgment seat and whoever occupies that seat, is the authority and power.
The authority goes with the seat and not with the office or the person. So this, in the Semitic languages, connotes the meaning exactly.
7 Helaman 3:14 In this verse, there are a total of eighteen “ands.” Reviewers of the Book of Mormon have, on occasion, been critical of the grammar in such a passage where the use of the word “and” seems so repetitious. Yet Brother Hanna explains that each of the “ands” in this verse is absolutely essential to the meaning, when this verse is expressed in Arabic, for the omission of any ” and” would nullify the meaning words.
8. Helaman 3:18–19 Have you wondered why the Book of Mormon cites a numbering system such as this? Do we say “forty and six, forty and seven, forty and eight?” No! Joseph Smith’s natural interpretation would more appropriately have been forty-six, forty-seven, forty-eight without the ands”. Brother Hanna excitedly observes that the use of “and” in forty and six” is precisely correct Arabic. Remember they number, as well as read, from right to left and recite their numbers with the “and” to separate the columns.
Well, I have just cited a few of these examples. There are many more! As Latter-day Saint leaders, we are aware of the Semitic origin of the Book of Mormon. The fact that an Arabic scholar such as this sees a beautiful internal consistency in the Prophet Joseph Smith’s translation of the book, is of great interest. The Prophet Joseph did not merely render an interpretation, but a word for word translation from the Egyptian type of hieroglyphic into the English language. Brother Hanna said the Book of Mormon simply flowed back into the Arabic language.

Rumpelstiltskin wrote: ↑April 14th, 2019, 5:22 am As I sit in church and listen in on conversations and as I occasionally read online material here on this forum and others, I am struck by the very powerful feeling that all too many church members do not really believe the Book of Mormon. When I consider everything I read and hear, I cannot really believe that they take it literally and that they think it is nothing more than a moral historical novel.

I have read the Book of Mormon over 20 times and am about to complete another reading, whereupon I will commence my next reading. I read it every day now, though I have missed several years of reading it and in addition I was not a member until I turned 19 so I never read it before then. The Book of Mormon does contain instructive dreams, visions, quotations and parables, which MIGHT not be things that happened physically, however, the bulk of the book is a historical recording. The book is also a miracle in itself in that a 24 year old with the best education the world ever offered could not have written it and yet a 24 year old with very little education actually did write (translate) it. Anyone who reads this book prayerfully and does not come away with a positive conviction of it and of the holy mission of the Savior, did not actually read it prayerfully. The stories in it are real, they actually happened, the people in it are real they actually lived through the events presented in it. The Book of Mormon is a true story, it is literally the coolest book on this planet and I am very grateful to have a copy of it to read whenever I want.