LDS Freedom Forum

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 1:50 am

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 11:50 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 10:47 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 7:16 pmCross reference verse 103 and tell me what you come up with.

These are they that will not be brought forth at the first resurrection. The first resurrection is reserved for the righteous only. All others come forth at any subsequent resurrection.
All will be saved except sons of perdition.

Sorry, I don't want another debate?

Cross reference it to the verse in Revelations.

Instead of me doing a scripture chase, why don't you just say what you have to say? I'm not going to be played like a dog chasing a rabbit around a track.

Otherwise, with me, this topic is at an end right now.

Besides this thread was begun by kirtland r.m., not you or I. Let him deal with this.

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 6:43 am

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 1:50 am

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 11:50 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 10:47 pm
These are they that will not be brought forth at the first resurrection. The first resurrection is reserved for the righteous only. All others come forth at any subsequent resurrection.
All will be saved except sons of perdition.

Sorry, I don't want another debate?

Cross reference it to the verse in Revelations.

Instead of me doing a scripture chase, why don't you just say what you have to say? I'm not going to be played like a dog chasing a rabbit around a track.

Otherwise, with me, this topic is at an end right now.

Besides this thread was begun by kirtland r.m., not you or I. Let him deal with this.

Well, if you would have cross referenced verse 103 to Revelations, specifically Rev 21:8 you would find this verse

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This is the very same group spoken of in D&C 76:103

So I ask, are they not the same group?

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 1:44 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 6:43 am

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 1:50 am

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 22nd, 2019, 11:50 pm
Cross reference it to the verse in Revelations.

Instead of me doing a scripture chase, why don't you just say what you have to say? I'm not going to be played like a dog chasing a rabbit around a track.

Otherwise, with me, this topic is at an end right now.

Besides this thread was begun by kirtland r.m., not you or I. Let him deal with this.

Well, if you would have cross referenced verse 103 to Revelations, specifically Rev 21:8 you would find this verse

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This is the very same group spoken of in D&C 76:103

So I ask, are they not the same group?

Rev. 20:13
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

These are not sons of perdition.

D&C 103 cross references to Rev 21:8 which cross references to TG Hell, which cross references to Rev 20:13

Only those who deny the Holy Ghost and put Christ to open shame are sons of perdition...not the wicked who spend time in hell and then are released to be judged for their works as indicated in Rev 20:13. They are they who are the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars,

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 3:19 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 1:44 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 6:43 am

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 1:50 am
Instead of me doing a scripture chase, why don't you just say what you have to say? I'm not going to be played like a dog chasing a rabbit around a track.

Otherwise, with me, this topic is at an end right now.

Besides this thread was begun by kirtland r.m., not you or I. Let him deal with this.

Well, if you would have cross referenced verse 103 to Revelations, specifically Rev 21:8 you would find this verse

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This is the very same group spoken of in D&C 76:103

So I ask, are they not the same group?

Rev. 20:13
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

These are not sons of perdition.


D&C 103 cross references to Rev 21:8 which cross references to TG Hell, which cross references to Rev 20:13

Only those who deny the Holy Ghost and put Christ to open shame are sons of perdition...not the wicked who spend time in hell and then are released to be judged for their works as indicated in Rev 20:13. They are they who are the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars,

The liars, whoremongers, etc, as mentioned in Rev. 21:8 are in the second death. Does it not say this?

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 3:52 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 3:19 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 1:44 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 6:43 am
Well, if you would have cross referenced verse 103 to Revelations, specifically Rev 21:8 you would find this verse

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This is the very same group spoken of in D&C 76:103

So I ask, are they not the same group?

Rev. 20:13
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

These are not sons of perdition.


D&C 103 cross references to Rev 21:8 which cross references to TG Hell, which cross references to Rev 20:13

Only those who deny the Holy Ghost and put Christ to open shame are sons of perdition...not the wicked who spend time in hell and then are released to be judged for their works as indicated in Rev 20:13. They are they who are the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars,

The liars, whoremongers, etc, as mentioned in Rev. 21:8 are in the second death. Does it not say this?

Alma 12:16
16 And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness.

Again, the wicked are not sons or perdition. The wicked die a first death (temporal) and a second death (spiritual) as described here.

Sons of perdition denied the Holy Ghost and/or put Jesus to open shame...not the same as second death. Does this help?

whosoever dieth in his sins = the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, etc = the wicked that die in their sins.

Have you ever read the Book of Mormon, cover to cover? If so, how many times?

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 6:38 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 3:52 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 3:19 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 1:44 pm
Rev. 20:13
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

These are not sons of perdition.


D&C 103 cross references to Rev 21:8 which cross references to TG Hell, which cross references to Rev 20:13

Only those who deny the Holy Ghost and put Christ to open shame are sons of perdition...not the wicked who spend time in hell and then are released to be judged for their works as indicated in Rev 20:13. They are they who are the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars,

The liars, whoremongers, etc, as mentioned in Rev. 21:8 are in the second death. Does it not say this?

Alma 12:16
16 And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness.

Again, the wicked are not sons or perdition. The wicked die a first death (temporal) and a second death (spiritual) as described here.

Sons of perdition denied the Holy Ghost and/or put Jesus to open shame...not the same as second death. Does this help?

whosoever dieth in his sins = the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, etc = the wicked that die in their sins.

Have you ever read the Book of Mormon, cover to cover? If so, how many times?

Yes, I read it all the time. You don't know about the second death I am assuming.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 6:57 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 6:38 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 3:52 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 3:19 pm

The liars, whoremongers, etc, as mentioned in Rev. 21:8 are in the second death. Does it not say this?

Alma 12:16
16 And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness.

Again, the wicked are not sons or perdition. The wicked die a first death (temporal) and a second death (spiritual) as described here.

Sons of perdition denied the Holy Ghost and/or put Jesus to open shame...not the same as second death. Does this help?

whosoever dieth in his sins = the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, etc = the wicked that die in their sins.

Have you ever read the Book of Mormon, cover to cover? If so, how many times?

Yes, I read it all the time. You don't know about the second death I am assuming.

I asked whether you read the BOM cover to cover...no answer.
What do you think I've been teaching you all this time. Do you assume I pulled it out of my hat? This very post tells you what I know. I see no purpose in changing the narrative for just a few people that are on a different errand.

As I said before, believe what you will. I just happen to disagree. Just as you disagree with scripture I have presented fully explaining the difference between the wicked going to hell, second death, and those going to perdition. In how many more ways can it be explained? If you've read BOM cover to cover several times then you would already know what I know, and you would know that calling all the wicked sons of perdition is incorrect. Did you even read the posted scriptures proving what I say?
I ask you to let it rest. Maybe someone else will agree with you that hasn't done the research.

Like:

Alma 12:16
16 And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness.

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 9:37 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 6:57 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 6:38 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 3:52 pm
Alma 12:16
16 And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness.

Again, the wicked are not sons or perdition. The wicked die a first death (temporal) and a second death (spiritual) as described here.

Sons of perdition denied the Holy Ghost and/or put Jesus to open shame...not the same as second death. Does this help?

whosoever dieth in his sins = the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, etc = the wicked that die in their sins.

Have you ever read the Book of Mormon, cover to cover? If so, how many times?

Yes, I read it all the time. You don't know about the second death I am assuming.

I asked whether you read the BOM cover to cover...no answer.
What do you think I've been teaching you all this time. Do you assume I pulled it out of my hat? This very post tells you what I know. I see no purpose in changing the narrative for just a few people that are on a different errand.

As I said before, believe what you will. I just happen to disagree. Just as you disagree with scripture I have presented fully explaining the difference between the wicked going to hell, second death, and those going to perdition. In how many more ways can it be explained? If you've read BOM cover to cover several times then you would already know what I know, and you would know that calling all the wicked sons of perdition is incorrect. Did you even read the posted scriptures proving what I say?
I ask you to let it rest. Maybe someone else will agree with you that hasn't done the research.

Like:

Alma 12:16
16 And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness.

The second death comes after resurrection and judgment and is reserved for the sons of perdition.

15 For behold, he surely must die that salvation may come; yea, it behooveth him and becometh expedient that he dieth, to bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, that thereby men may be brought into the presence of the Lord.
16 Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the resurrection, and redeemeth all mankind from the first death—that spiritual death; for all mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual.
17 But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord.
18 Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness. (Hell. 14:15-18)

37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power (D&C 76:37)

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 24th, 2019, 12:06 am

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 9:37 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 6:57 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 23rd, 2019, 6:38 pm

Yes, I read it all the time. You don't know about the second death I am assuming.

I asked whether you read the BOM cover to cover...no answer.
What do you think I've been teaching you all this time. Do you assume I pulled it out of my hat? This very post tells you what I know. I see no purpose in changing the narrative for just a few people that are on a different errand.

As I said before, believe what you will. I just happen to disagree. Just as you disagree with scripture I have presented fully explaining the difference between the wicked going to hell, second death, and those going to perdition. In how many more ways can it be explained? If you've read BOM cover to cover several times then you would already know what I know, and you would know that calling all the wicked sons of perdition is incorrect. Did you even read the posted scriptures proving what I say?
I ask you to let it rest. Maybe someone else will agree with you that hasn't done the research.

Like:

Alma 12:16
16 And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness.

The second death comes after resurrection and judgment and is reserved for the sons of perdition.

15 For behold, he surely must die that salvation may come; yea, it behooveth him and becometh expedient that he dieth, to bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, that thereby men may be brought into the presence of the Lord.
16 Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the resurrection, and redeemeth all mankind from the first death—that spiritual death; for all mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual.
17 But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord.
18 Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness. (Hell. 14:15-18)

37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power (D&C 76:37)

Believe what you will, that's okay.

Mormon 9:8
8 Behold I say unto you, he that denieth these things knoweth not the gospel of Christ; yea, he has not read the scriptures; if so, he does not understand them.

Let it rest, please. I'm done.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 3:26 pm This post is for anyone that would like to respond, that do not believe the wicked are all sons of perdition. I have presented food for thought.

41 Wherefore, I, the Lord God, caused that he (Adam) should be cast out from the Garden of Eden, from my presence, because of his transgression, wherein he became spiritually dead, which is the first death, even that same death which is the last death, which is spiritual, which shall be pronounced upon the wicked when I shall say: Depart, ye cursed.

43 And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—that by his natural death he might be raised in immortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe;

44 And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not;

45 For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey.

41 Spiritual death is both the first death and the second death

44 eternal damnation------Hel. 12:26 (25–26)
25 And I would that all men might be saved. But we read that in the great and last day there are some who shall be cast out, yea, who shall be cast off from the presence of the Lord; (second death)
26 Yea, who shall be consigned to a state of endless misery, fulfilling the words which say: They that have done good shall have everlasting life; and they that have done evil shall have everlasting damnation. And thus it is. Amen.

BD Damnation
As used in the KJV this word has a wider meaning than is at once apparent from modern usage. Damnation is the opposite of salvation and exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges and hence be damned to that extent.

Jacob 7
18 And he spake plainly unto them, that he had been deceived by the power of the devil. And he spake of hell, and of eternity, and of eternal punishment.

19 And he said: I fear lest I have committed the unpardonable sin, for I have lied unto God; for I denied the Christ, and said that I believed the scriptures; and they truly testify of him. And because I have thus lied unto God I greatly fear lest my case shall be awful; but I confess unto God.

Mosiah 15:26
26 But behold, and fear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth none such that rebel against him and die in their sins; yea, even all those that have perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; these are they that have no part in the first resurrection.
................................................................................................................................................................
I pose a question. We know that God allows not one sin to enter into his presence. Therefore, unless a person repents of every single sin ever committed since the age of accountability, except for one, they will not be allowed into God's presence.
Will this person go to hell and suffer for their ONE sin and then go to the telestial kingdom...or will they become a son of perdition and be cast off forever?

Another question. Can any of us assume we're so perfect and then turn around and judge the bad guy and condemn then to perdition, or should we look deeply at ourselves and see if we repented enough so as to not be a son of perdition, as asserted here?

After all, one sin will deem us as wicked. One lousy sin, right? One sin that causes one to become a son of perdition because God cannot save the wicked, right?

This is a very saddening and scary thought!

Thank God for repentance and his mercy that gives people hope of a glorious resurrection. For we all sin every day one way or another. There are sins of commission and sins of omission, both having the power to keep us from God's presence. However, God looks upon the heart of his children and extends mercy through the blood of his Lamb.

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:29 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 3:26 pm This post is for anyone that would like to respond, that do not believe the wicked are all sons of perdition. I have presented food for thought.

41 Wherefore, I, the Lord God, caused that he (Adam) should be cast out from the Garden of Eden, from my presence, because of his transgression, wherein he became spiritually dead, which is the first death, even that same death which is the last death, which is spiritual, which shall be pronounced upon the wicked when I shall say: Depart, ye cursed.

43 And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—that by his natural death he might be raised in immortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe;

44 And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not;

45 For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey.

41 Spiritual death is both the first death and the second death

44 eternal damnation------Hel. 12:26 (25–26)
25 And I would that all men might be saved. But we read that in the great and last day there are some who shall be cast out, yea, who shall be cast off from the presence of the Lord; (second death)
26 Yea, who shall be consigned to a state of endless misery, fulfilling the words which say: They that have done good shall have everlasting life; and they that have done evil shall have everlasting damnation. And thus it is. Amen.

BD Damnation
As used in the KJV this word has a wider meaning than is at once apparent from modern usage. Damnation is the opposite of salvation and exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges and hence be damned to that extent.

Jacob 7
18 And he spake plainly unto them, that he had been deceived by the power of the devil. And he spake of hell, and of eternity, and of eternal punishment.

19 And he said: I fear lest I have committed the unpardonable sin, for I have lied unto God; for I denied the Christ, and said that I believed the scriptures; and they truly testify of him. And because I have thus lied unto God I greatly fear lest my case shall be awful; but I confess unto God.

Mosiah 15:26
26 But behold, and fear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth none such that rebel against him and die in their sins; yea, even all those that have perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; these are they that have no part in the first resurrection.
................................................................................................................................................................
I pose a question. We know that God allows not one sin to enter into his presence. Therefore, unless a person repents of every single sin ever committed since the age of accountability, except for one, they will not be allowed into God's presence.
Will this person go to hell and suffer for their ONE sin and then go to the telestial kingdom...or will they become a son of perdition and be cast off forever?

Another question. Can any of us assume we're so perfect and then turn around and judge the bad guy and condemn then to perdition, or should we look deeply at ourselves and see if we repented enough so as to not be a son of perdition, as asserted here?

After all, one sin will deem us as wicked. One lousy sin, right? One sin that causes one to become a son of perdition because God cannot save the wicked, right?

This is a very saddening and scary thought!

Thank God for repentance and his mercy that gives people hope of a glorious resurrection. For we all sin every day one way or another. There are sins of commission and sins of omission, both having the power to keep us from God's presence. However, God looks upon the heart of his children and extends mercy through the blood of his Lamb.

Every person who wants saved from the eternal hell after resurrection and judgment must repent of all their sins. The unrepentant at judgment are defined as wicked and all of the wicked are cast out into outer darkness. On the flip side, all of those who repent of all their sins are righteous and go into eternal life.

It's really that simple. The righteous on the right hand who enjoy eternal life or the wicked on the left who are cast into outer darkness. Thus, righteous= repentant, and the wicked= unrepentant.

Stahura wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:44 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:29 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 3:26 pm This post is for anyone that would like to respond, that do not believe the wicked are all sons of perdition. I have presented food for thought.

41 Wherefore, I, the Lord God, caused that he (Adam) should be cast out from the Garden of Eden, from my presence, because of his transgression, wherein he became spiritually dead, which is the first death, even that same death which is the last death, which is spiritual, which shall be pronounced upon the wicked when I shall say: Depart, ye cursed.

43 And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—that by his natural death he might be raised in immortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe;

44 And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not;

45 For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey.

41 Spiritual death is both the first death and the second death

44 eternal damnation------Hel. 12:26 (25–26)
25 And I would that all men might be saved. But we read that in the great and last day there are some who shall be cast out, yea, who shall be cast off from the presence of the Lord; (second death)
26 Yea, who shall be consigned to a state of endless misery, fulfilling the words which say: They that have done good shall have everlasting life; and they that have done evil shall have everlasting damnation. And thus it is. Amen.

BD Damnation
As used in the KJV this word has a wider meaning than is at once apparent from modern usage. Damnation is the opposite of salvation and exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges and hence be damned to that extent.

Jacob 7
18 And he spake plainly unto them, that he had been deceived by the power of the devil. And he spake of hell, and of eternity, and of eternal punishment.

19 And he said: I fear lest I have committed the unpardonable sin, for I have lied unto God; for I denied the Christ, and said that I believed the scriptures; and they truly testify of him. And because I have thus lied unto God I greatly fear lest my case shall be awful; but I confess unto God.

Mosiah 15:26
26 But behold, and fear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth none such that rebel against him and die in their sins; yea, even all those that have perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; these are they that have no part in the first resurrection.
................................................................................................................................................................
I pose a question. We know that God allows not one sin to enter into his presence. Therefore, unless a person repents of every single sin ever committed since the age of accountability, except for one, they will not be allowed into God's presence.
Will this person go to hell and suffer for their ONE sin and then go to the telestial kingdom...or will they become a son of perdition and be cast off forever?

Another question. Can any of us assume we're so perfect and then turn around and judge the bad guy and condemn then to perdition, or should we look deeply at ourselves and see if we repented enough so as to not be a son of perdition, as asserted here?

After all, one sin will deem us as wicked. One lousy sin, right? One sin that causes one to become a son of perdition because God cannot save the wicked, right?

This is a very saddening and scary thought!

Thank God for repentance and his mercy that gives people hope of a glorious resurrection. For we all sin every day one way or another. There are sins of commission and sins of omission, both having the power to keep us from God's presence. However, God looks upon the heart of his children and extends mercy through the blood of his Lamb.

Every person who wants saved from the eternal hell after resurrection and judgment must repent of all their sins. The unrepentant at judgment are defined as wicked and all of the wicked are cast out into outer darkness. On the flip side, all of those who repent of all their sins are righteous and go into eternal life.

It's really that simple. The righteous on the right hand who enjoy eternal life or the wicked on the left who are cast into outer darkness. Thus, righteous= repentant, and the wicked= unrepentant.

bird-box.w700.h700.jpg

Cheetos when he reads the scriptures about the afterlife

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:29 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 3:26 pm This post is for anyone that would like to respond, that do not believe the wicked are all sons of perdition. I have presented food for thought.

41 Wherefore, I, the Lord God, caused that he (Adam) should be cast out from the Garden of Eden, from my presence, because of his transgression, wherein he became spiritually dead, which is the first death, even that same death which is the last death, which is spiritual, which shall be pronounced upon the wicked when I shall say: Depart, ye cursed.

43 And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—that by his natural death he might be raised in immortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe;

44 And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not;

45 For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey.

41 Spiritual death is both the first death and the second death

44 eternal damnation------Hel. 12:26 (25–26)
25 And I would that all men might be saved. But we read that in the great and last day there are some who shall be cast out, yea, who shall be cast off from the presence of the Lord; (second death)
26 Yea, who shall be consigned to a state of endless misery, fulfilling the words which say: They that have done good shall have everlasting life; and they that have done evil shall have everlasting damnation. And thus it is. Amen.

BD Damnation
As used in the KJV this word has a wider meaning than is at once apparent from modern usage. Damnation is the opposite of salvation and exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges and hence be damned to that extent.

Jacob 7
18 And he spake plainly unto them, that he had been deceived by the power of the devil. And he spake of hell, and of eternity, and of eternal punishment.

19 And he said: I fear lest I have committed the unpardonable sin, for I have lied unto God; for I denied the Christ, and said that I believed the scriptures; and they truly testify of him. And because I have thus lied unto God I greatly fear lest my case shall be awful; but I confess unto God.

Mosiah 15:26
26 But behold, and fear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth none such that rebel against him and die in their sins; yea, even all those that have perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; these are they that have no part in the first resurrection.
................................................................................................................................................................
I pose a question. We know that God allows not one sin to enter into his presence. Therefore, unless a person repents of every single sin ever committed since the age of accountability, except for one, they will not be allowed into God's presence.
Will this person go to hell and suffer for their ONE sin and then go to the telestial kingdom...or will they become a son of perdition and be cast off forever?

Another question. Can any of us assume we're so perfect and then turn around and judge the bad guy and condemn then to perdition, or should we look deeply at ourselves and see if we repented enough so as to not be a son of perdition, as asserted here?

After all, one sin will deem us as wicked. One lousy sin, right? One sin that causes one to become a son of perdition because God cannot save the wicked, right?

This is a very saddening and scary thought!

Thank God for repentance and his mercy that gives people hope of a glorious resurrection. For we all sin every day one way or another. There are sins of commission and sins of omission, both having the power to keep us from God's presence. However, God looks upon the heart of his children and extends mercy through the blood of his Lamb.

Every person who wants saved from the eternal hell after resurrection and judgment must repent of all their sins. The unrepentant at judgment are defined as wicked and all of the wicked are cast out into outer darkness. On the flip side, all of those who repent of all their sins are righteous and go into eternal life.

It's really that simple. The righteous on the right hand who enjoy eternal life or the wicked on the left who are cast into outer darkness. Thus, righteous= repentant, and the wicked= unrepentant.

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:41 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:29 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 3:26 pm This post is for anyone that would like to respond, that do not believe the wicked are all sons of perdition. I have presented food for thought.

41 Wherefore, I, the Lord God, caused that he (Adam) should be cast out from the Garden of Eden, from my presence, because of his transgression, wherein he became spiritually dead, which is the first death, even that same death which is the last death, which is spiritual, which shall be pronounced upon the wicked when I shall say: Depart, ye cursed.

43 And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—that by his natural death he might be raised in immortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe;

44 And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not;

45 For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey.

41 Spiritual death is both the first death and the second death

44 eternal damnation------Hel. 12:26 (25–26)
25 And I would that all men might be saved. But we read that in the great and last day there are some who shall be cast out, yea, who shall be cast off from the presence of the Lord; (second death)
26 Yea, who shall be consigned to a state of endless misery, fulfilling the words which say: They that have done good shall have everlasting life; and they that have done evil shall have everlasting damnation. And thus it is. Amen.

BD Damnation
As used in the KJV this word has a wider meaning than is at once apparent from modern usage. Damnation is the opposite of salvation and exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges and hence be damned to that extent.

Jacob 7
18 And he spake plainly unto them, that he had been deceived by the power of the devil. And he spake of hell, and of eternity, and of eternal punishment.

19 And he said: I fear lest I have committed the unpardonable sin, for I have lied unto God; for I denied the Christ, and said that I believed the scriptures; and they truly testify of him. And because I have thus lied unto God I greatly fear lest my case shall be awful; but I confess unto God.

Mosiah 15:26
26 But behold, and fear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth none such that rebel against him and die in their sins; yea, even all those that have perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; these are they that have no part in the first resurrection.
................................................................................................................................................................
I pose a question. We know that God allows not one sin to enter into his presence. Therefore, unless a person repents of every single sin ever committed since the age of accountability, except for one, they will not be allowed into God's presence.
Will this person go to hell and suffer for their ONE sin and then go to the telestial kingdom...or will they become a son of perdition and be cast off forever?

Another question. Can any of us assume we're so perfect and then turn around and judge the bad guy and condemn then to perdition, or should we look deeply at ourselves and see if we repented enough so as to not be a son of perdition, as asserted here?

After all, one sin will deem us as wicked. One lousy sin, right? One sin that causes one to become a son of perdition because God cannot save the wicked, right?

This is a very saddening and scary thought!

Thank God for repentance and his mercy that gives people hope of a glorious resurrection. For we all sin every day one way or another. There are sins of commission and sins of omission, both having the power to keep us from God's presence. However, God looks upon the heart of his children and extends mercy through the blood of his Lamb.

Every person who wants saved from the eternal hell after resurrection and judgment must repent of all their sins. The unrepentant at judgment are defined as wicked and all of the wicked are cast out into outer darkness. On the flip side, all of those who repent of all their sins are righteous and go into eternal life.

It's really that simple. The righteous on the right hand who enjoy eternal life or the wicked on the left who are cast into outer darkness. Thus, righteous= repentant, and the wicked= unrepentant.

According to what you are saying there is no need for kingdoms its either heaven (celestial glory) or hell (outer darkness) its a very Baptist approach you are taking.

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:46 pm

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:41 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:29 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 3:26 pm This post is for anyone that would like to respond, that do not believe the wicked are all sons of perdition. I have presented food for thought.

41 Wherefore, I, the Lord God, caused that he (Adam) should be cast out from the Garden of Eden, from my presence, because of his transgression, wherein he became spiritually dead, which is the first death, even that same death which is the last death, which is spiritual, which shall be pronounced upon the wicked when I shall say: Depart, ye cursed.

43 And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—that by his natural death he might be raised in immortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe;

44 And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not;

45 For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey.

41 Spiritual death is both the first death and the second death

44 eternal damnation------Hel. 12:26 (25–26)
25 And I would that all men might be saved. But we read that in the great and last day there are some who shall be cast out, yea, who shall be cast off from the presence of the Lord; (second death)
26 Yea, who shall be consigned to a state of endless misery, fulfilling the words which say: They that have done good shall have everlasting life; and they that have done evil shall have everlasting damnation. And thus it is. Amen.

BD Damnation
As used in the KJV this word has a wider meaning than is at once apparent from modern usage. Damnation is the opposite of salvation and exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges and hence be damned to that extent.

Jacob 7
18 And he spake plainly unto them, that he had been deceived by the power of the devil. And he spake of hell, and of eternity, and of eternal punishment.

19 And he said: I fear lest I have committed the unpardonable sin, for I have lied unto God; for I denied the Christ, and said that I believed the scriptures; and they truly testify of him. And because I have thus lied unto God I greatly fear lest my case shall be awful; but I confess unto God.

Mosiah 15:26
26 But behold, and fear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth none such that rebel against him and die in their sins; yea, even all those that have perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; these are they that have no part in the first resurrection.
................................................................................................................................................................
I pose a question. We know that God allows not one sin to enter into his presence. Therefore, unless a person repents of every single sin ever committed since the age of accountability, except for one, they will not be allowed into God's presence.
Will this person go to hell and suffer for their ONE sin and then go to the telestial kingdom...or will they become a son of perdition and be cast off forever?

Another question. Can any of us assume we're so perfect and then turn around and judge the bad guy and condemn then to perdition, or should we look deeply at ourselves and see if we repented enough so as to not be a son of perdition, as asserted here?

After all, one sin will deem us as wicked. One lousy sin, right? One sin that causes one to become a son of perdition because God cannot save the wicked, right?

This is a very saddening and scary thought!

Thank God for repentance and his mercy that gives people hope of a glorious resurrection. For we all sin every day one way or another. There are sins of commission and sins of omission, both having the power to keep us from God's presence. However, God looks upon the heart of his children and extends mercy through the blood of his Lamb.

Every person who wants saved from the eternal hell after resurrection and judgment must repent of all their sins. The unrepentant at judgment are defined as wicked and all of the wicked are cast out into outer darkness. On the flip side, all of those who repent of all their sins are righteous and go into eternal life.

It's really that simple. The righteous on the right hand who enjoy eternal life or the wicked on the left who are cast into outer darkness. Thus, righteous= repentant, and the wicked= unrepentant.

According to what you are saying there is no need for kingdoms its either heaven (celestial glory) or hell (outer darkness) its a very Baptist approach you are taking.

27 And the righteous shall be gathered on my right hand unto eternal life; and the wicked on my left hand will I be ashamed to own before the Father;
28 Wherefore I will say unto them—Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. (D&C 29:27-28)

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:21 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:44 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:29 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 3:26 pm This post is for anyone that would like to respond, that do not believe the wicked are all sons of perdition. I have presented food for thought.

41 Wherefore, I, the Lord God, caused that he (Adam) should be cast out from the Garden of Eden, from my presence, because of his transgression, wherein he became spiritually dead, which is the first death, even that same death which is the last death, which is spiritual, which shall be pronounced upon the wicked when I shall say: Depart, ye cursed.

43 And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—that by his natural death he might be raised in immortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe;

44 And they that believe not unto eternal damnation; for they cannot be redeemed from their spiritual fall, because they repent not;

45 For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey.

41 Spiritual death is both the first death and the second death

44 eternal damnation------Hel. 12:26 (25–26)
25 And I would that all men might be saved. But we read that in the great and last day there are some who shall be cast out, yea, who shall be cast off from the presence of the Lord; (second death)
26 Yea, who shall be consigned to a state of endless misery, fulfilling the words which say: They that have done good shall have everlasting life; and they that have done evil shall have everlasting damnation. And thus it is. Amen.

BD Damnation
As used in the KJV this word has a wider meaning than is at once apparent from modern usage. Damnation is the opposite of salvation and exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges and hence be damned to that extent.

Jacob 7
18 And he spake plainly unto them, that he had been deceived by the power of the devil. And he spake of hell, and of eternity, and of eternal punishment.

19 And he said: I fear lest I have committed the unpardonable sin, for I have lied unto God; for I denied the Christ, and said that I believed the scriptures; and they truly testify of him. And because I have thus lied unto God I greatly fear lest my case shall be awful; but I confess unto God.

Mosiah 15:26
26 But behold, and fear, and tremble before God, for ye ought to tremble; for the Lord redeemeth none such that rebel against him and die in their sins; yea, even all those that have perished in their sins ever since the world began, that have wilfully rebelled against God, that have known the commandments of God, and would not keep them; these are they that have no part in the first resurrection.
................................................................................................................................................................
I pose a question. We know that God allows not one sin to enter into his presence. Therefore, unless a person repents of every single sin ever committed since the age of accountability, except for one, they will not be allowed into God's presence.
Will this person go to hell and suffer for their ONE sin and then go to the telestial kingdom...or will they become a son of perdition and be cast off forever?

Another question. Can any of us assume we're so perfect and then turn around and judge the bad guy and condemn then to perdition, or should we look deeply at ourselves and see if we repented enough so as to not be a son of perdition, as asserted here?

After all, one sin will deem us as wicked. One lousy sin, right? One sin that causes one to become a son of perdition because God cannot save the wicked, right?

This is a very saddening and scary thought!

Thank God for repentance and his mercy that gives people hope of a glorious resurrection. For we all sin every day one way or another. There are sins of commission and sins of omission, both having the power to keep us from God's presence. However, God looks upon the heart of his children and extends mercy through the blood of his Lamb.

Every person who wants saved from the eternal hell after resurrection and judgment must repent of all their sins. The unrepentant at judgment are defined as wicked and all of the wicked are cast out into outer darkness. On the flip side, all of those who repent of all their sins are righteous and go into eternal life.

It's really that simple. The righteous on the right hand who enjoy eternal life or the wicked on the left who are cast into outer darkness. Thus, righteous= repentant, and the wicked= unrepentant.

bird-box.w700.h700.jpg

Cheetos when he reads the scriptures about the afterlife

Funny stuff.
Truth is truth and what I stated is truth.

Stahura wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:56 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:21 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:44 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:29 pm

Every person who wants saved from the eternal hell after resurrection and judgment must repent of all their sins. The unrepentant at judgment are defined as wicked and all of the wicked are cast out into outer darkness. On the flip side, all of those who repent of all their sins are righteous and go into eternal life.

It's really that simple. The righteous on the right hand who enjoy eternal life or the wicked on the left who are cast into outer darkness. Thus, righteous= repentant, and the wicked= unrepentant.

bird-box.w700.h700.jpg

Cheetos when he reads the scriptures about the afterlife

Funny stuff.
Truth is truth and what I stated is truth.

Nope

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:55 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:46 pm

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:41 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:29 pm

Every person who wants saved from the eternal hell after resurrection and judgment must repent of all their sins. The unrepentant at judgment are defined as wicked and all of the wicked are cast out into outer darkness. On the flip side, all of those who repent of all their sins are righteous and go into eternal life.

It's really that simple. The righteous on the right hand who enjoy eternal life or the wicked on the left who are cast into outer darkness. Thus, righteous= repentant, and the wicked= unrepentant.

According to what you are saying there is no need for kingdoms its either heaven (celestial glory) or hell (outer darkness) its a very Baptist approach you are taking.

27 And the righteous shall be gathered on my right hand unto eternal life; and the wicked on my left hand will I be ashamed to own before the Father;
28 Wherefore I will say unto them—Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. (D&C 29:27-28)

That is correct he will be so ashamed of those who receive Telestial Glory that he will never visit them again. They will be completely cut off from his presence. And those who receive terrestrial glory will be completely shut off from the the father. Eternal life is to live forever in the presence of the father.

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 10:04 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:56 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:21 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:44 pm
bird-box.w700.h700.jpg

Cheetos when he reads the scriptures about the afterlife

Funny stuff.
Truth is truth and what I stated is truth.

Nope

Are you suggesting this scriptures is false?

27 And the righteous shall be gathered on my right hand unto eternal life; and the wicked on my left hand will I be ashamed to own before the Father;
28 Wherefore I will say unto them—Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 10:04 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:56 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:21 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 7:44 pm
bird-box.w700.h700.jpg

Cheetos when he reads the scriptures about the afterlife

Funny stuff.
Truth is truth and what I stated is truth.

Nope

Are you suggesting this scriptures is false?

27 And the righteous shall be gathered on my right hand unto eternal life; and the wicked on my left hand will I be ashamed to own before the Father;
28 Wherefore I will say unto them—Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 10:06 pm

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:55 pm

Cheetos wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:46 pm

setyourselffree wrote: ↑April 25th, 2019, 9:41 pm

According to what you are saying there is no need for kingdoms its either heaven (celestial glory) or hell (outer darkness) its a very Baptist approach you are taking.

27 And the righteous shall be gathered on my right hand unto eternal life; and the wicked on my left hand will I be ashamed to own before the Father;
28 Wherefore I will say unto them—Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. (D&C 29:27-28)

That is correct he will be so ashamed of those who receive Telestial Glory that he will never visit them again. They will be completely cut off from his presence. And those who receive terrestrial glory will be completely shut off from the the father. Eternal life is to live forever in the presence of the father.

So, are you saying the telestial and terrestrial go with the devil and his angels?