Do you believe President Benson

[drtanner]

Ironically the scripture quoted above came as a result of a man “following” another man who was not Christ.

I think we are all grateful Joseph Smith believed and “followed” a man other than Christ so that the world could be gathered to Christ using the Book of Mormon.

Do we see a pattern here? Do we see how following a man other than Christ does not substitute the reality that he is the way and the keeper of the gate? Do we see how we are blessed many times when we choose to follow someone sent by Christ instead of waiting for Christ himself to tell us all things personally? Do we see how this can lead many to eternal life?

I see a pattern. ALL THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES!!! A prophet preaches repentance by the power of the Holy Ghost. This preaching has a more powerful effect on many people than any weapon of war. Their hearts are pricked by the teaching of Christ, which leads them to sore repentance. Their faith, administered to their hearts by a sent messenger, leads them to desire to covenant with God. They call on Jesus in mighty prayer and submit fully to Him, as a little child, with a completely broken heart and contrite spirit. Jesus then remits their sins which effects a mighty change in their hearts, a baptism of fire, so mighty that angels are seen, visions are seen, prophesies are made, the voice of the Lord is heard, prisons are broken, etc... Whole peoples are then converted by the power of these evidences seen in their brethren....

These are the fruits of following prophets in scriptures. We have now been following prophets for 180 years. And???

Now.... Here's the big question.... Assuming we have the fullness of the Gospel, and prophets as mighty as Nephi, Alma, Moroni, etc... Where are these fruits today? Where are the King Benjamin type events? The Anti-Nephi-Lehi events? Where are the visions? The healing of the dead? The gifts of tongues? The angels? What did Moroni say if these things were to cease?

He said it is because of unbelief the question is whose as there is no lack of miracles happening all over the world in the church.

Yes, unbelief in Christ. Not unbelief in leaders.... but go on... Mormon chapter 9 miracles? Ether chapter 4 miracles? Fruits promised the believers? No purse nor script???

Is the Book of Mormon a miracle? Did it come to fruition because Joseph followed a man other than Christ?

[Hosh]

I see a pattern. ALL THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES!!! A prophet preaches repentance by the power of the Holy Ghost. This preaching has a more powerful effect on many people than any weapon of war. Their hearts are pricked by the teaching of Christ, which leads them to sore repentance. Their faith, administered to their hearts by a sent messenger, leads them to desire to covenant with God. They call on Jesus in mighty prayer and submit fully to Him, as a little child, with a completely broken heart and contrite spirit. Jesus then remits their sins which effects a mighty change in their hearts, a baptism of fire, so mighty that angels are seen, visions are seen, prophesies are made, the voice of the Lord is heard, prisons are broken, etc... Whole peoples are then converted by the power of these evidences seen in their brethren....

These are the fruits of following prophets in scriptures. We have now been following prophets for 180 years. And???

Now.... Here's the big question.... Assuming we have the fullness of the Gospel, and prophets as mighty as Nephi, Alma, Moroni, etc... Where are these fruits today? Where are the King Benjamin type events? The Anti-Nephi-Lehi events? Where are the visions? The healing of the dead? The gifts of tongues? The angels? What did Moroni say if these things were to cease?

He said it is because of unbelief the question is whose as there is no lack of miracles happening all over the world in the church.

Yes, unbelief in Christ. Not unbelief in leaders.... but go on... Mormon chapter 9 miracles? Ether chapter 4 miracles? Fruits promised the believers? No purse nor script???

Is the Book of Mormon a miracle? Did it come to fruition because Joseph followed a man other than Christ?

Heres the thing, you didn't answer Caburnha's question, you simply are pointing out something we already believe and have explained. Yes the BoM is a miracle. Yes Joseph Smith hearkened to the counsel of James TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE HE COULD PART THE VEIL AND RECEIVE FURTHER LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE FROM THE SOURCE HIMSELF. This point has already been made. The people your trying to prove wrong here believe that at some point in ones spiritual journey, they will most likely need to hearken to the voice of a Servant or one who knows the way because they themselves have partaken of the fruit and know the way. We are not saying there is not an important role that Prophets play in the salvation of men. The problem is the Follow, follow, follow, follow mentality. The problem is the Church's concept of "endure to the end" means to follow the prophet until the end of our lives. This is false doctrine and is not validated by ANY scripture.

A prophet should be having visions and visitations of Angels. They should be parting the veil and receiving Gods word by heavenly messengers:

31 And the office of their ministry [angels] is to call men unto repentance, and to fulfil and to do the work of the covenants of the Father, which he hath made unto the children of men, to prepare the way among the children of men, by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him.

32 And by so doing, the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ, that the Holy Ghost may have place in their hearts, according to the power thereof; and after this manner bringeth to pass the Father, the covenants which he hath made unto the children of men.

Yes I agree with you Servants are essential for the residue to plant the seed of Faith. But as that tree grows and bears fruit, is it always going to be necessary to follow follow follow the prophet?

1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

THIS IS THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST. Please show me where Follow the prophet is found in the doctrine of Christ. After we hearken to a Prophets message (as did Joseph, your right!), we truly repent, and are TRULY born again, the Holy Ghost will show us ALL things that we should to come unto Christ.

If this "follow the prophet" message is so crucial that whole sermons are being written on it by our leaders, where are the sermons from the prophets of old? How come Nephi, Jacob, Mosiah, Alma, Momon, Moroni or even Christ himself didn't give these big beautiful sermons on Following the Prophet?

Prophets are an important PART of Gods plan for his Children to learn the Gospel, but we need to stop teaching in a way that makes it seem like Following them IS the Gospel. Oh and I take it back, there are whole chapters in scripture that talk about the follow, follow, follow mentality.... Its called idol worship, and there are MANY examples showing ancient Israel holding their leaders up as idols. I think its time we start applying the scriptures to ourselves.

[endlessQuestions]

So far from what I gather two no’s to believing what President Benson said.

From your logic, I gather that you are a NO to the then President of the Church Kimball(and he was for another 5 years) , because he disliked the talk you are quoting.

How about we don't use that logic because I don't think that you rejected President Kimball just like I didn't reject President Benson and accept that just maybe some portions of that talk are spot on and others not so much.

I've heard this idea that Pres. Kimball didn't like the talk bandied about several times, but never seen a source for it. Does anyone here happen to know where this story originated?

[endlessQuestions]

.
Let us harken to those we sustain as prophets and seers, as well as the other brethren as if our eternal life depended upon it, because it does!”

O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name. -2 Nephi 9:41

Ironically the scripture quoted above came as a result of a man “following” another man who was not Christ.

I think we are all grateful Joseph Smith believed and “followed” a man other than Christ so that the world could be gathered to Christ using the Book of Mormon.

Do we see a pattern here? Do we see how following a man other than Christ does not substitute the reality that he is the way and the keeper of the gate? Do we see how we are blessed many times when we choose to follow someone sent by Christ instead of waiting for Christ himself to tell us all things personally? Do we see how this can lead many to eternal life?

I see a pattern. ALL THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES!!! A prophet preaches repentance by the power of the Holy Ghost. This preaching has a more powerful effect on many people than any weapon of war. Their hearts are pricked by the teaching of Christ, which leads them to sore repentance. Their faith in Christ, administered to their hearts by a sent messenger, leads them to desire to covenant with God. They call on Jesus in mighty prayer and submit fully to Him, as a little child, with a completely broken heart and contrite spirit. Jesus then remits their sins which effects a mighty change in their hearts, a baptism of fire, so mighty that angels are seen, visions are seen, prophesies are made, the voice of the Lord is heard, prisons are broken, etc... Whole peoples are then converted by the power of these evidences seen in their brethren....

These are the fruits of following prophets in scriptures.

Now.... Here's the big question.... Assuming we have the fullness of the Gospel, and modern-day prophets as mighty as Nephi, Alma, Moroni, etc... Where are these fruits today? Where are the King Benjamin type events? The Anti-Nephi-Lehi events? Where are the visions? The healing of the dead? The gifts of tongues? The angels?
How about just having powerful testimonies of the redemptive power of Christ in our testimony meetings? Are we just not following the Prophet enough???
Or perhaps is there something else fundamentally missing from the equation??

"Where are the visions? The healing of the dead? The gifts of tongues? The angels?"

I personally know of experiences regarding visions, tongues, and angels, and have read many experiences of those who have brought somebody back to life after they were dead.

So I think they're happening, but for some reason, we're not seeing them, believing in them, or having faith in the people that tell us about them.

The other thing I always wonder about is, what about those people from other religions who are having these experiences as well? How do they fit in to the picture?

[Zathura]

So far from what I gather two no’s to believing what President Benson said.

From your logic, I gather that you are a NO to the then President of the Church Kimball(and he was for another 5 years) , because he disliked the talk you are quoting.

How about we don't use that logic because I don't think that you rejected President Kimball just like I didn't reject President Benson and accept that just maybe some portions of that talk are spot on and others not so much.

I've heard this idea that Pres. Kimball didn't like the talk bandied about several times, but never seen a source for it. Does anyone here happen to know where this story originated?

Yes, the source is someone Church members don't like. It's the equivalent of using CNN as a source for a hardcore Trump supporter. They might not accept it, even if it's legit.

This is the source listed:

D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, (Signature Books: Salt Lake City, UT, 1997), 111.

Ibid, see endnotes 352-353 on page 469 for reference

[drtanner]

He said it is because of unbelief the question is whose as there is no lack of miracles happening all over the world in the church.

Yes, unbelief in Christ. Not unbelief in leaders.... but go on... Mormon chapter 9 miracles? Ether chapter 4 miracles? Fruits promised the believers? No purse nor script???

Is the Book of Mormon a miracle? Did it come to fruition because Joseph followed a man other than Christ?

Heres the thing, you didn't answer Caburnha's question, you simply are pointing out something we already believe and have explained. Yes the BoM is a miracle. Yes Joseph Smith hearkened to the counsel of James TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE HE COULD PART THE VEIL AND RECEIVE FURTHER LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE FROM THE SOURCE HIMSELF. This point has already been made. The people your trying to prove wrong here believe that at some point in ones spiritual journey, they will most likely need to hearken to the voice of a Servant or one who knows the way because they themselves have partaken of the fruit and know the way. We are not saying there is not an important role that Prophets play in the salvation of men. The problem is the Follow, follow, follow, follow mentality. The problem is the Church's concept of "endure to the end" means to follow the prophet until the end of our lives. This is false doctrine and is not validated by ANY scripture.

A prophet should be having visions and visitations of Angels. They should be parting the veil and receiving Gods word by heavenly messengers:

31 And the office of their ministry [angels] is to call men unto repentance, and to fulfil and to do the work of the covenants of the Father, which he hath made unto the children of men, to prepare the way among the children of men, by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him.

32 And by so doing, the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ, that the Holy Ghost may have place in their hearts, according to the power thereof; and after this manner bringeth to pass the Father, the covenants which he hath made unto the children of men.

Yes I agree with you Servants are essential for the residue to plant the seed of Faith. But as that tree grows and bears fruit, is it always going to be necessary to follow follow follow the prophet?

1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

THIS IS THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST. Please show me where Follow the prophet is found in the doctrine of Christ. After we hearken to a Prophets message (as did Joseph, your right!), we truly repent, and are TRULY born again, the Holy Ghost will show us ALL things that we should to come unto Christ.

If this "follow the prophet" message is so crucial that whole sermons are being written on it by our leaders, where are the sermons from the prophets of old. How come Nephi, Jacob, Mosiah, Alma, Momon, Moroni or even Christ himself didn't give these big beautiful sermons on Following the Prophet?

Prophets are an important PART of Gods plan for his Children to learn the Gospel, but we need to stop teaching in a way that makes it seem like Following them IS the Gospel. Oh and I take it back, there are whole chapters in scripture that talk about the follow, follow, follow mentality.... Its called idol worship, and there are MANY examples showing ancient Israel holding their leaders up as idols. I think its time we start applying the scriptures to ourselves.

You and many others reading are missing the point here. This has everything to do with Christ. This entire post. This is not about a me vs you, this is about us and Christ. Preparing for his return, gathering Israel, and establishing zion. D&C 38:27! That will never happen if we can't become one. That won't happen if we don't agree on the principle in this post. He will use his servants to help him do this and prepare the world to meet him, the same as he has always done. The sooner we recognize this, receive confirmation, and make necessary changes the sooner we can work towards that end.

[Zathura]

Yes, unbelief in Christ. Not unbelief in leaders.... but go on... Mormon chapter 9 miracles? Ether chapter 4 miracles? Fruits promised the believers? No purse nor script???

Is the Book of Mormon a miracle? Did it come to fruition because Joseph followed a man other than Christ?

Heres the thing, you didn't answer Caburnha's question, you simply are pointing out something we already believe and have explained. Yes the BoM is a miracle. Yes Joseph Smith hearkened to the counsel of James TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE HE COULD PART THE VEIL AND RECEIVE FURTHER LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE FROM THE SOURCE HIMSELF. This point has already been made. The people your trying to prove wrong here believe that at some point in ones spiritual journey, they will most likely need to hearken to the voice of a Servant or one who knows the way because they themselves have partaken of the fruit and know the way. We are not saying there is not an important role that Prophets play in the salvation of men. The problem is the Follow, follow, follow, follow mentality. The problem is the Church's concept of "endure to the end" means to follow the prophet until the end of our lives. This is false doctrine and is not validated by ANY scripture.

A prophet should be having visions and visitations of Angels. They should be parting the veil and receiving Gods word by heavenly messengers:

31 And the office of their ministry [angels] is to call men unto repentance, and to fulfil and to do the work of the covenants of the Father, which he hath made unto the children of men, to prepare the way among the children of men, by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him.

32 And by so doing, the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ, that the Holy Ghost may have place in their hearts, according to the power thereof; and after this manner bringeth to pass the Father, the covenants which he hath made unto the children of men.

Yes I agree with you Servants are essential for the residue to plant the seed of Faith. But as that tree grows and bears fruit, is it always going to be necessary to follow follow follow the prophet?

1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

THIS IS THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST. Please show me where Follow the prophet is found in the doctrine of Christ. After we hearken to a Prophets message (as did Joseph, your right!), we truly repent, and are TRULY born again, the Holy Ghost will show us ALL things that we should to come unto Christ.

If this "follow the prophet" message is so crucial that whole sermons are being written on it by our leaders, where are the sermons from the prophets of old. How come Nephi, Jacob, Mosiah, Alma, Momon, Moroni or even Christ himself didn't give these big beautiful sermons on Following the Prophet?

Prophets are an important PART of Gods plan for his Children to learn the Gospel, but we need to stop teaching in a way that makes it seem like Following them IS the Gospel. Oh and I take it back, there are whole chapters in scripture that talk about the follow, follow, follow mentality.... Its called idol worship, and there are MANY examples showing ancient Israel holding their leaders up as idols. I think its time we start applying the scriptures to ourselves.

You and many others reading are missing the point here. This has everything to do with Christ. This entire post. This is not about a me vs you, this is about us and Christ. Preparing for his return, gathering Israel, and establishing zion. D&C 38:27! That will never happen if we can't become one. That won't happen if we don't agree on the principle in this post. He will use his servants to help him do this and prepare the world to meet him, the same as he has always done. The sooner we recognize this, receive confirmation, and make necessary changes the sooner we can work towards that end.

You say that..

but lets look at word count of the OP:

Prophets/Anointed/First Presidency: 23
Christ: 0
Jesus: 0
God: 1
Lord: 0

When we point out the flaw in this talk, the flaw being that it promotes this Follow the Prophet too much , did you talk about Christ? No, your 2nd post word count:

Prophet: 12
God: 2**(But they don't count because it's part of the phrase "Prophet of God")
Jesus: 2

You told me that I should consider better approaches to talking about spiritual rebirth. Perhaps you should adjust your approach to talking about Jesus Christ(Since you're saying this whole post is about him), because mentioning prophets EIGHT TIMES MORE than God and Jesus Christ combined in your first two posts doesn't seem like a very solid approach. I don't know brother, just a thought.

[drtanner]

Is the Book of Mormon a miracle? Did it come to fruition because Joseph followed a man other than Christ?

Heres the thing, you didn't answer Caburnha's question, you simply are pointing out something we already believe and have explained. Yes the BoM is a miracle. Yes Joseph Smith hearkened to the counsel of James TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE HE COULD PART THE VEIL AND RECEIVE FURTHER LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE FROM THE SOURCE HIMSELF. This point has already been made. The people your trying to prove wrong here believe that at some point in ones spiritual journey, they will most likely need to hearken to the voice of a Servant or one who knows the way because they themselves have partaken of the fruit and know the way. We are not saying there is not an important role that Prophets play in the salvation of men. The problem is the Follow, follow, follow, follow mentality. The problem is the Church's concept of "endure to the end" means to follow the prophet until the end of our lives. This is false doctrine and is not validated by ANY scripture.

A prophet should be having visions and visitations of Angels. They should be parting the veil and receiving Gods word by heavenly messengers:

31 And the office of their ministry [angels] is to call men unto repentance, and to fulfil and to do the work of the covenants of the Father, which he hath made unto the children of men, to prepare the way among the children of men, by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him.

32 And by so doing, the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ, that the Holy Ghost may have place in their hearts, according to the power thereof; and after this manner bringeth to pass the Father, the covenants which he hath made unto the children of men.

Yes I agree with you Servants are essential for the residue to plant the seed of Faith. But as that tree grows and bears fruit, is it always going to be necessary to follow follow follow the prophet?

1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

THIS IS THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST. Please show me where Follow the prophet is found in the doctrine of Christ. After we hearken to a Prophets message (as did Joseph, your right!), we truly repent, and are TRULY born again, the Holy Ghost will show us ALL things that we should to come unto Christ.

If this "follow the prophet" message is so crucial that whole sermons are being written on it by our leaders, where are the sermons from the prophets of old. How come Nephi, Jacob, Mosiah, Alma, Momon, Moroni or even Christ himself didn't give these big beautiful sermons on Following the Prophet?

Prophets are an important PART of Gods plan for his Children to learn the Gospel, but we need to stop teaching in a way that makes it seem like Following them IS the Gospel. Oh and I take it back, there are whole chapters in scripture that talk about the follow, follow, follow mentality.... Its called idol worship, and there are MANY examples showing ancient Israel holding their leaders up as idols. I think its time we start applying the scriptures to ourselves.

You and many others reading are missing the point here. This has everything to do with Christ. This entire post. This is not about a me vs you, this is about us and Christ. Preparing for his return, gathering Israel, and establishing zion. D&C 38:27! That will never happen if we can't become one. That won't happen if we don't agree on the principle in this post. He will use his servants to help him do this and prepare the world to meet him, the same as he has always done. The sooner we recognize this, receive confirmation, and make necessary changes the sooner we can work towards that end.

You say that..

but lets look at word count of the OP:

Prophets/Anointed/First Presidency: 23
Christ: 0
Jesus: 0
God: 1
Lord: 0

When we point out the flaw in this talk, the flaw being that it promotes this Follow the Prophet too much , did you talk about Christ? No, your 2nd post word count:

Prophet: 12
God: 2**(But they don't count because it's part of the phrase "Prophet of God")
Jesus: 2

You told me that I should consider better approaches to talking about spiritual rebirth. Perhaps you should adjust your approach to talking about Jesus Christ(Since you're saying this whole post is about him), because mentioning prophets EIGHT TIMES MORE than God and Jesus Christ combined in your first two posts doesn't seem like a very solid approach. I don't know brother, just a thought.

That is why I am clarifying.

[Zathura]

Heres the thing, you didn't answer Caburnha's question, you simply are pointing out something we already believe and have explained. Yes the BoM is a miracle. Yes Joseph Smith hearkened to the counsel of James TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE HE COULD PART THE VEIL AND RECEIVE FURTHER LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE FROM THE SOURCE HIMSELF. This point has already been made. The people your trying to prove wrong here believe that at some point in ones spiritual journey, they will most likely need to hearken to the voice of a Servant or one who knows the way because they themselves have partaken of the fruit and know the way. We are not saying there is not an important role that Prophets play in the salvation of men. The problem is the Follow, follow, follow, follow mentality. The problem is the Church's concept of "endure to the end" means to follow the prophet until the end of our lives. This is false doctrine and is not validated by ANY scripture.

A prophet should be having visions and visitations of Angels. They should be parting the veil and receiving Gods word by heavenly messengers:

31 And the office of their ministry [angels] is to call men unto repentance, and to fulfil and to do the work of the covenants of the Father, which he hath made unto the children of men, to prepare the way among the children of men, by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him.

32 And by so doing, the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ, that the Holy Ghost may have place in their hearts, according to the power thereof; and after this manner bringeth to pass the Father, the covenants which he hath made unto the children of men.

Yes I agree with you Servants are essential for the residue to plant the seed of Faith. But as that tree grows and bears fruit, is it always going to be necessary to follow follow follow the prophet?

1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

THIS IS THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST. Please show me where Follow the prophet is found in the doctrine of Christ. After we hearken to a Prophets message (as did Joseph, your right!), we truly repent, and are TRULY born again, the Holy Ghost will show us ALL things that we should to come unto Christ.

If this "follow the prophet" message is so crucial that whole sermons are being written on it by our leaders, where are the sermons from the prophets of old. How come Nephi, Jacob, Mosiah, Alma, Momon, Moroni or even Christ himself didn't give these big beautiful sermons on Following the Prophet?

Prophets are an important PART of Gods plan for his Children to learn the Gospel, but we need to stop teaching in a way that makes it seem like Following them IS the Gospel. Oh and I take it back, there are whole chapters in scripture that talk about the follow, follow, follow mentality.... Its called idol worship, and there are MANY examples showing ancient Israel holding their leaders up as idols. I think its time we start applying the scriptures to ourselves.

You and many others reading are missing the point here. This has everything to do with Christ. This entire post. This is not about a me vs you, this is about us and Christ. Preparing for his return, gathering Israel, and establishing zion. D&C 38:27! That will never happen if we can't become one. That won't happen if we don't agree on the principle in this post. He will use his servants to help him do this and prepare the world to meet him, the same as he has always done. The sooner we recognize this, receive confirmation, and make necessary changes the sooner we can work towards that end.

You say that..

but lets look at word count of the OP:

Prophets/Anointed/First Presidency: 23
Christ: 0
Jesus: 0
God: 1
Lord: 0

When we point out the flaw in this talk, the flaw being that it promotes this Follow the Prophet too much , did you talk about Christ? No, your 2nd post word count:

Prophet: 12
God: 2**(But they don't count because it's part of the phrase "Prophet of God")
Jesus: 2

You told me that I should consider better approaches to talking about spiritual rebirth. Perhaps you should adjust your approach to talking about Jesus Christ(Since you're saying this whole post is about him), because mentioning prophets EIGHT TIMES MORE than God and Jesus Christ combined in your first two posts doesn't seem like a very solid approach. I don't know brother, just a thought.

That is why I am clarifying.

I’ll have to take a long deep look into this then.

[Hosh]

Yes, unbelief in Christ. Not unbelief in leaders.... but go on... Mormon chapter 9 miracles? Ether chapter 4 miracles? Fruits promised the believers? No purse nor script???

Is the Book of Mormon a miracle? Did it come to fruition because Joseph followed a man other than Christ?

Heres the thing, you didn't answer Caburnha's question, you simply are pointing out something we already believe and have explained. Yes the BoM is a miracle. Yes Joseph Smith hearkened to the counsel of James TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE HE COULD PART THE VEIL AND RECEIVE FURTHER LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE FROM THE SOURCE HIMSELF. This point has already been made. The people your trying to prove wrong here believe that at some point in ones spiritual journey, they will most likely need to hearken to the voice of a Servant or one who knows the way because they themselves have partaken of the fruit and know the way. We are not saying there is not an important role that Prophets play in the salvation of men. The problem is the Follow, follow, follow, follow mentality. The problem is the Church's concept of "endure to the end" means to follow the prophet until the end of our lives. This is false doctrine and is not validated by ANY scripture.

A prophet should be having visions and visitations of Angels. They should be parting the veil and receiving Gods word by heavenly messengers:

31 And the office of their ministry [angels] is to call men unto repentance, and to fulfil and to do the work of the covenants of the Father, which he hath made unto the children of men, to prepare the way among the children of men, by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him.

32 And by so doing, the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ, that the Holy Ghost may have place in their hearts, according to the power thereof; and after this manner bringeth to pass the Father, the covenants which he hath made unto the children of men.

Yes I agree with you Servants are essential for the residue to plant the seed of Faith. But as that tree grows and bears fruit, is it always going to be necessary to follow follow follow the prophet?

1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

THIS IS THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST. Please show me where Follow the prophet is found in the doctrine of Christ. After we hearken to a Prophets message (as did Joseph, your right!), we truly repent, and are TRULY born again, the Holy Ghost will show us ALL things that we should to come unto Christ.

If this "follow the prophet" message is so crucial that whole sermons are being written on it by our leaders, where are the sermons from the prophets of old. How come Nephi, Jacob, Mosiah, Alma, Momon, Moroni or even Christ himself didn't give these big beautiful sermons on Following the Prophet?

Prophets are an important PART of Gods plan for his Children to learn the Gospel, but we need to stop teaching in a way that makes it seem like Following them IS the Gospel. Oh and I take it back, there are whole chapters in scripture that talk about the follow, follow, follow mentality.... Its called idol worship, and there are MANY examples showing ancient Israel holding their leaders up as idols. I think its time we start applying the scriptures to ourselves.

You and many others reading are missing the point here. This has everything to do with Christ. This entire post. This is not about a me vs you, this is about us and Christ. Preparing for his return, gathering Israel, and establishing zion. D&C 38:27! That will never happen if we can't become one. That won't happen if we don't agree on the principle in this post. He will use his servants to help him do this and prepare the world to meet him, the same as he has always done. The sooner we recognize this, receive confirmation, and make necessary changes the sooner we can work towards that end.

We are not missing the point. I spent my entire life believing your point. Its just that sometimes God reveals new truths that replace the old.

36 ¶ And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Point being, if we are humble and submissive, and truly hearken to the voice of Christ, he will teach us his mysteries. These new truths often seemingly contradict what we had previously believed. The scriptures are full of examples of this. People often have set parameters (AKA not believing anything outside of what the Brethren teach) and so they do not believe new ideas that may very well be true. Its not that the wine is not good, its that their bottles are old.

[drtanner]

Is the Book of Mormon a miracle? Did it come to fruition because Joseph followed a man other than Christ?

Heres the thing, you didn't answer Caburnha's question, you simply are pointing out something we already believe and have explained. Yes the BoM is a miracle. Yes Joseph Smith hearkened to the counsel of James TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE HE COULD PART THE VEIL AND RECEIVE FURTHER LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE FROM THE SOURCE HIMSELF. This point has already been made. The people your trying to prove wrong here believe that at some point in ones spiritual journey, they will most likely need to hearken to the voice of a Servant or one who knows the way because they themselves have partaken of the fruit and know the way. We are not saying there is not an important role that Prophets play in the salvation of men. The problem is the Follow, follow, follow, follow mentality. The problem is the Church's concept of "endure to the end" means to follow the prophet until the end of our lives. This is false doctrine and is not validated by ANY scripture.

A prophet should be having visions and visitations of Angels. They should be parting the veil and receiving Gods word by heavenly messengers:

31 And the office of their ministry [angels] is to call men unto repentance, and to fulfil and to do the work of the covenants of the Father, which he hath made unto the children of men, to prepare the way among the children of men, by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him.

32 And by so doing, the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ, that the Holy Ghost may have place in their hearts, according to the power thereof; and after this manner bringeth to pass the Father, the covenants which he hath made unto the children of men.

Yes I agree with you Servants are essential for the residue to plant the seed of Faith. But as that tree grows and bears fruit, is it always going to be necessary to follow follow follow the prophet?

1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

THIS IS THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST. Please show me where Follow the prophet is found in the doctrine of Christ. After we hearken to a Prophets message (as did Joseph, your right!), we truly repent, and are TRULY born again, the Holy Ghost will show us ALL things that we should to come unto Christ.

If this "follow the prophet" message is so crucial that whole sermons are being written on it by our leaders, where are the sermons from the prophets of old. How come Nephi, Jacob, Mosiah, Alma, Momon, Moroni or even Christ himself didn't give these big beautiful sermons on Following the Prophet?

Prophets are an important PART of Gods plan for his Children to learn the Gospel, but we need to stop teaching in a way that makes it seem like Following them IS the Gospel. Oh and I take it back, there are whole chapters in scripture that talk about the follow, follow, follow mentality.... Its called idol worship, and there are MANY examples showing ancient Israel holding their leaders up as idols. I think its time we start applying the scriptures to ourselves.

You and many others reading are missing the point here. This has everything to do with Christ. This entire post. This is not about a me vs you, this is about us and Christ. Preparing for his return, gathering Israel, and establishing zion. D&C 38:27! That will never happen if we can't become one. That won't happen if we don't agree on the principle in this post. He will use his servants to help him do this and prepare the world to meet him, the same as he has always done. The sooner we recognize this, receive confirmation, and make necessary changes the sooner we can work towards that end.

We are not missing the point. I have spent my entire life believing that point. Its just that sometimes God reveals new truths that replace the old.

36 ¶ And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Point being, if we are humble and submissive, and truly hearken to the voice of Christ, he will teach us his mysteries. These new truths often seemingly contradict what we had previously believed. The scriptures are full of examples of this. People often have set parameters (AKA not believing anything outside of what the Brethren teach) and so they do not believe new ideas that may very well be true. Its not that the wine is not good, its that your bottle is old.

And if Joseph Smith would have told that to Moroni and waited for Christ we would not have the Book of Mormon.

[LucianAMD]

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are false and you will damn yourself by following them. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord, ask Him.

[endlessQuestions]

So far from what I gather two no’s to believing what President Benson said.

From your logic, I gather that you are a NO to the then President of the Church Kimball(and he was for another 5 years) , because he disliked the talk you are quoting.

How about we don't use that logic because I don't think that you rejected President Kimball just like I didn't reject President Benson and accept that just maybe some portions of that talk are spot on and others not so much.

I've heard this idea that Pres. Kimball didn't like the talk bandied about several times, but never seen a source for it. Does anyone here happen to know where this story originated?

Yes, the source is someone Church members don't like. It's the equivalent of using CNN as a source for a hardcore Trump supporter. They might not accept it, even if it's legit.

This is the source listed:

D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, (Signature Books: Salt Lake City, UT, 1997), 111.

Ibid, see endnotes 352-353 on page 469 for reference

I don't have access to the book, but I'd be interested to know who his source was. If it's true that President Kimball made then Elder Benson apologize in front of the entire quorum, there would only be a few witnesses, none of whom would be talking to D. Michael Quinn.

Out of curiosity, would you consider Quinn an anti-Mormon?

[drtanner]

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are false and you will damn yourself by following them. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord, ask Him.

This has nothing to do with our standing with the lord and Agree if that is what you want to know ask him.

[Lizzy60]

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are false and you will damn yourself by following them. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord, ask Him.

Amen!!!

Drtanner knows that this 14 fundamentals list is controversial, so having him now say that he only posted this to start a conversation on building Zion is disingenuous.

[Lizzy60]

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are false and you will damn yourself by following them. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord, ask Him.

This has nothing to do with our standing with the lord and Agree if that is what you want to know ask him.

Who, how, when and where Zion is built has everything to do with the standing of the Corporate Church in relation to the Lord.

I've asked, and received an answer. There are very good reasons that One Mighty and Strong, the latter-day Servant that will be revealed, will be needed. Isaiah and other prophets of old saw our condition, and prophesied of this servant who will seemingly come from obscurity, just as Joseph Smith did.

1 Nephi 22 --- how far will the LDS church go to be popular instead of persecuted?

[Hosh]

Heres the thing, you didn't answer Caburnha's question, you simply are pointing out something we already believe and have explained. Yes the BoM is a miracle. Yes Joseph Smith hearkened to the counsel of James TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE HE COULD PART THE VEIL AND RECEIVE FURTHER LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE FROM THE SOURCE HIMSELF. This point has already been made. The people your trying to prove wrong here believe that at some point in ones spiritual journey, they will most likely need to hearken to the voice of a Servant or one who knows the way because they themselves have partaken of the fruit and know the way. We are not saying there is not an important role that Prophets play in the salvation of men. The problem is the Follow, follow, follow, follow mentality. The problem is the Church's concept of "endure to the end" means to follow the prophet until the end of our lives. This is false doctrine and is not validated by ANY scripture.

A prophet should be having visions and visitations of Angels. They should be parting the veil and receiving Gods word by heavenly messengers:

31 And the office of their ministry [angels] is to call men unto repentance, and to fulfil and to do the work of the covenants of the Father, which he hath made unto the children of men, to prepare the way among the children of men, by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him.

32 And by so doing, the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ, that the Holy Ghost may have place in their hearts, according to the power thereof; and after this manner bringeth to pass the Father, the covenants which he hath made unto the children of men.

Yes I agree with you Servants are essential for the residue to plant the seed of Faith. But as that tree grows and bears fruit, is it always going to be necessary to follow follow follow the prophet?

1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

THIS IS THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST. Please show me where Follow the prophet is found in the doctrine of Christ. After we hearken to a Prophets message (as did Joseph, your right!), we truly repent, and are TRULY born again, the Holy Ghost will show us ALL things that we should to come unto Christ.

If this "follow the prophet" message is so crucial that whole sermons are being written on it by our leaders, where are the sermons from the prophets of old. How come Nephi, Jacob, Mosiah, Alma, Momon, Moroni or even Christ himself didn't give these big beautiful sermons on Following the Prophet?

Prophets are an important PART of Gods plan for his Children to learn the Gospel, but we need to stop teaching in a way that makes it seem like Following them IS the Gospel. Oh and I take it back, there are whole chapters in scripture that talk about the follow, follow, follow mentality.... Its called idol worship, and there are MANY examples showing ancient Israel holding their leaders up as idols. I think its time we start applying the scriptures to ourselves.

You and many others reading are missing the point here. This has everything to do with Christ. This entire post. This is not about a me vs you, this is about us and Christ. Preparing for his return, gathering Israel, and establishing zion. D&C 38:27! That will never happen if we can't become one. That won't happen if we don't agree on the principle in this post. He will use his servants to help him do this and prepare the world to meet him, the same as he has always done. The sooner we recognize this, receive confirmation, and make necessary changes the sooner we can work towards that end.

We are not missing the point. I have spent my entire life believing that point. Its just that sometimes God reveals new truths that replace the old.

36 ¶ And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Point being, if we are humble and submissive, and truly hearken to the voice of Christ, he will teach us his mysteries. These new truths often seemingly contradict what we had previously believed. The scriptures are full of examples of this. People often have set parameters (AKA not believing anything outside of what the Brethren teach) and so they do not believe new ideas that may very well be true. Its not that the wine is not good, its that your bottle is old.

And if Joseph Smith would have told that to Moroni and waited for Christ we would not have the Book of Mormon.

No. If Joesph did not believe this principle, he would have listened to his ecclesiastical leaders and never recieved the things that he did. He would have drawn a line in the sand and anything past that line he would have dismissed. He would not have believed that God could answer his prayers by vision or revelation because his leaders told him so.

[drtanner]

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are false and you will damn yourself by following them. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord, ask Him.

Amen!!!

Drtanner knows that this 14 fundamentals list is controversial, so having him now say that he only posted this to start a conversation on building Zion is disingenuous.

Or a mis judgement

[Zathura]

From your logic, I gather that you are a NO to the then President of the Church Kimball(and he was for another 5 years) , because he disliked the talk you are quoting.

How about we don't use that logic because I don't think that you rejected President Kimball just like I didn't reject President Benson and accept that just maybe some portions of that talk are spot on and others not so much.

I've heard this idea that Pres. Kimball didn't like the talk bandied about several times, but never seen a source for it. Does anyone here happen to know where this story originated?

Yes, the source is someone Church members don't like. It's the equivalent of using CNN as a source for a hardcore Trump supporter. They might not accept it, even if it's legit.

This is the source listed:

D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, (Signature Books: Salt Lake City, UT, 1997), 111.

Ibid, see endnotes 352-353 on page 469 for reference

I don't have access to the book, but I'd be interested to know who his source was. If it's true that President Kimball made then Elder Benson apologize in front of the entire quorum, there would only be a few witnesses, none of whom would be talking to D. Michael Quinn.

Out of curiosity, would you consider Quinn an anti-Mormon?

From the little that I read about him, no, although he was excommunicated i honestly would not classify him as anti. I haven’t read anything new about him in maybe 5 years so idk maybe things have changed .

[Thinker]

President Benson:

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency--the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency--the living prophet and the First Presidency--follow them and be blessed--reject them and suffer.

I mostly agree with the blued ones.
I disagree with the rest.

1. It is impossible for any one person to know God enough to know God's will in EVERYTHING. Nobody's all-knowing.
2. This depends on the times, but generally, no need to reinvent the wheel. More important to consider Christ's teachings and master them first Also... I consider Martin Luther King Jr. a prophet who had a vision for a better way and led people to it. At the time, his prophetic work was better than racist doctrine we have.
3. Christ died - but isn't this his church?
4. Anti-God teaching to consider any person as if infallible deity.
5. God prepares who GOD chooses.

6. I agree that words are not as important as truth and spirit in which they're said.
7. Sometimes truth is tough - again look at the many who hated and even killed Martin Luther King Jr.
8. Spiritual reasoning can be had - and is generally higher than men's reasoning, however, usually there is a good mix of both reason and spirit. God created us with both brains and hearts.
9. We all - including prophets - can receive revelation on any matter.
10.... including civic matters. But free agency is what the war was/is about.

11. I'd say just proud - education and money has not so much to do with it. If it is a false prophet (which we've been warned about) - it may be only those who have the courage and initiative to study to discern it. On the other hand, considering the rich church leaders who get paid for jobs they aren't qualified for & have corrupted the law of tithing - maybe there is some truth to the money part.

12. (similar to #7)

13. Just because someone happened to be born into a lds prominent family and outlives others, doesn't make a prophet. A president, yes - sure - whatever rules a religion wants to go by. But a prophet is one who prophecies - one who is called of GOD - who sees a better way and leads people to it. Generally, it happens organically - or spiritually - spontaneously - from God - as a response to need... not as if in line as it is in the lds church.
14. This has it backwards... "Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man." -2Ne 28:31 As Christ taught - if they teach good things - do them - but don't copy bad they do. E.g. financial secrecy and corruption and distortions like when they say "the church never apologizes" - that's against an important step of repentance and spiritual development, so yes, you need to apologize and do what you can to make at-one, when you make mistakes. Prioritize GOD - who is truth and light - above all - and you will be fine.

Basically, we'd all do better in stopping the leader worship or pretending they're infallible and stop blindly following them - and rather consider them as simply presidents of a large religious organization. Maybe then, all that energy will be more rightfully turned toward God.

[Centerline]

Yes, I believe the principle President Benson was focused on teaching at that time is true.

I choose to trust and follow the example and teachings of the Lord’s living prophet.

I believe in trusting personal revelation, the scriptures, and the teachings of our prophet. Trusting these three sources in my life has helped me increase my faith in Jesus Christ, repent, and come unto Him.

I’m sure President Benson gave many more talks focused on personal revelation, scripture, and other topics to bring us unto Christ.

[Phantom]

Just wait until you don't have access to the words of living prophets. It's gonna happen. Let's see how you feel about this then.

[Phantom]

“God has chosen His servants. He claims it as His prerogative to condemn them, if they need condemnation. He has not given it to us individually to censure and condemn them. No man, however strong he may be in the faith, however high in the Priesthood, can speak evil of the Lord’s anointed and find fault with God’s authority on the earth without incurring His displeasure. The Holy Spirit will withdraw himself from such a man, and he will go into darkness. This being the case, do you not see how important it is that we should be careful?”

[Lizzy60]

.

[cab]

O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name. -2 Nephi 9:41

Ironically the scripture quoted above came as a result of a man “following” another man who was not Christ.

I think we are all grateful Joseph Smith believed and “followed” a man other than Christ so that the world could be gathered to Christ using the Book of Mormon.

Do we see a pattern here? Do we see how following a man other than Christ does not substitute the reality that he is the way and the keeper of the gate? Do we see how we are blessed many times when we choose to follow someone sent by Christ instead of waiting for Christ himself to tell us all things personally? Do we see how this can lead many to eternal life?

I see a pattern. ALL THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES!!! A prophet preaches repentance by the power of the Holy Ghost. This preaching has a more powerful effect on many people than any weapon of war. Their hearts are pricked by the teaching of Christ, which leads them to sore repentance. Their faith in Christ, administered to their hearts by a sent messenger, leads them to desire to covenant with God. They call on Jesus in mighty prayer and submit fully to Him, as a little child, with a completely broken heart and contrite spirit. Jesus then remits their sins which effects a mighty change in their hearts, a baptism of fire, so mighty that angels are seen, visions are seen, prophesies are made, the voice of the Lord is heard, prisons are broken, etc... Whole peoples are then converted by the power of these evidences seen in their brethren....

These are the fruits of following prophets in scriptures.

Now.... Here's the big question.... Assuming we have the fullness of the Gospel, and modern-day prophets as mighty as Nephi, Alma, Moroni, etc... Where are these fruits today? Where are the King Benjamin type events? The Anti-Nephi-Lehi events? Where are the visions? The healing of the dead? The gifts of tongues? The angels?
How about just having powerful testimonies of the redemptive power of Christ in our testimony meetings? Are we just not following the Prophet enough???
Or perhaps is there something else fundamentally missing from the equation??

"Where are the visions? The healing of the dead? The gifts of tongues? The angels?"

I personally know of experiences regarding visions, tongues, and angels, and have read many experiences of those who have brought somebody back to life after they were dead.

So I think they're happening, but for some reason, we're not seeing them, believing in them, or having faith in the people that tell us about them.

The other thing I always wonder about is, what about those people from other religions who are having these experiences as well? How do they fit in to the picture?

Yes they do happen. In and out of the church. I've had miraculous experiences too, tied to my faith exercised in Christ unto repentance.. Problem is we conflate these and other things with the church (like when we say the existence of the Book of Mormon proves the truthfulness of today's church)....

Unfortunately, if you were to start speaking about your speaking in tongues or your visit by an angel in sacrament meeting, you may get a nasty note from the bishop.... And they are unheardof in General Conference. It's all "too sacred to share", you see.

But yes, these types of miracles are reported by believers of Christ in and out of the church... They just don't seem to be really encouraged in the church.