drtanner wrote: ↑April 16th, 2019, 3:55 pm
Hosh4710 wrote: ↑April 16th, 2019, 2:59 pm
drtanner wrote: ↑April 16th, 2019, 9:03 am
Hosh4710 wrote: ↑April 16th, 2019, 8:44 am
But the warnings and cries of repentance are never for the WHOLE church? Just for certain individuals?
Do we have the sealed plates? Have we established zion?
Are there still many many saints striving with all their heart for these things? Are the leaders honest in heart, full of Charity and speaking on behalf of the lord? Does the church still have the authority the keys and the vehicle for the fullness of the gospel and it’s blessings?
I choose to have hope and faith and sustain and support the leaders that this church will prepare the world for the Lord’s return, rather than rail on perceived weakness, create division, and sit around and wait for something else all the while crying that we need a servant to set the church in order. How about we all just do what the leaders are asking. REPENT!
I get it. Before I had a change of heart and viewed things the way I used to, I would have said the same thing. I would have rejected anything that sounded negative against the church or its leaders. I never realized that by rejecting what I thought was negative, I was rejecting the very thing that was holding me back from receiving more of Gods word. Sometimes its ok to focus on the negative. Maybe the negative is not always "negative", we just perceive it that way because it threatens what we have spent our whole lives believing.
Can I ask you just one more question? You say that the Church as a whole (including its leaders) are not who these warnings are for. You say that there will never be another people who take the torch and run with it, but it will be us (the gentiles) who continue with the torch through the tribulation and on to build Zion. Can you please just consider the following:
3 Nephi 16
10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day
when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations;
and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel,
and I will bring my gospel unto them.
13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.
15
But If they will not turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, I will suffer them, yea, I will suffer my people, O house of Israel, that they shall go through among them, and shall tread them down, and
they shall be as salt that hath lost its savor, which is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of my people, O house of Israel.
I have to ask you...
WHO IS THE SALT?
D&C 101
39
When men are called unto mine everlasting gospel, and covenant with an everlasting covenant, they are accounted as the salt of the earth and the savor of men;
40 They are called to be the savor of men; therefore, if that salt of the earth lose its savor, behold, it is thenceforth good for nothing only to be cast out and trodden under the feet of men.
Can you PLEASE prayerfully consider this? The Salt always has, and always will refer to Gods Covenant people. Re-read that last verse I posted from 3 Nephi 16. It is so clear that we are the salt. He is not referring to "the other Gentile churches", He is speaking to the Gentiles that are the Salt. He says that If the Gentiles do not repent, THEY SHALL BE AS SALT THAT HAS LOST ITS SAVOR. In that very chapter we then read what will happen next! The gospel will be taken from among us and given back to THEM. Who is them?
Please do not pawn this off as Gileadi rhetoric. This is not from Gileadi, this is directly word for word in 3 Nephi 16. It could not be more clear. Will you please at least consider it? Even if it sounds negative, would it really hurt to pray about it?
It is clear to you who have made up your mind, but you forgot to highlight the part of the verse that makes it clear who this particular scripture is referring to.
3 Nephi 16
10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day
when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel,
and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
Are the leaders of this church full of pride, lyings, deceits, mischief, hypocrisy, MURDERS, priestcrafts WHOREDOMS, and SECRET ABOMINATIONS, and reject the gospel of Jesus CHRIST?
Do you know many members murdering and a part of secret abominations? And I will pray, that you may be able to discern truth from error.
Do you expect wolves in sheep's clothing to be easy to discern at first blush?
Even the very elect are likely to be deceived.
Let me go down the list (and I can provide plenty of examples of each):
Pride - check! In spades.
Lyings, deceits and mischief- check! And well-documented.
Hypocrisy - check! Like rolling out a very visible self-reliance program, at the same time they persecute those who are self-reliant on the Lord.
MURDERS - check! Alma confesses to "murdering" (strong word) many people, and he defines that as leading people astray, when he was out trying to destroy the church with the sons of Mosiah. But the fact is most mainstream Mormons vote for politicians who take us to war, in which our military goes and kills hundreds of thousands, even millions of children of God in other countries. the military-industrial complex is alive and well and loves war. Supporting politicians who work for the war machine is in my book equivalent to being guilty of murder. The government is our agent, an extension of us.
Priestcrafts - check! In spades. Proof is there is the "follow the prophet" mantra that we incessantly hear. You can be a witness, drTanner, that we practice priestcraft in spades. Here's the question for you. I'm going to put you on the stand, or deposition you: When general authorities give their speeches, who do they quote the most?
I know the answer so let me answer the question for you. They quote themselves. Guaranteed! If you were to do a research project and tally the number of times a general authority quotes another General authority, esp an apostle, you would find the ratio to be probably 95-1. 95 quotations of themselves to the one non General authority quote. And get this, the quotes are not revelations, they're just other quotes from General Conference. What is the message? It's obvious. You gotta follow the Brethren!
WHOREDOMS - check!
SECRET ABOMINATIONS - everything about the top leadership is secret. Their meetings, their councils that they seek deep to hide, etc.
Reject the fulness gospel of Jesus Christ - check!
If the fulness of the Gospel is the idea that we can be redeemed in the flesh and that is a chief aim of the Book of Mormon, to communicate that reality and goal for us, then the leadership has rejected the fulness of gospel. It decided back in 2014 to systematically persecute and excommunicate those with that belief system. They kick against the pricks, persecute the saints and have lost their priesthood due to their unrighteous dominion.
The church clearly teaches a dependence on itself, and persecutes those who have a spiritual self-sufficiency, and who rely on the Lord for direction and revelation, notwithstanding they still appreciate and value the revelations that come through a true servant, were such a servant to exist.
Why do all of the prophets, seers, and revelators wear fancy suits? Honestly. Is that a requirement? Oh, apparently it is! Let me quote from the manual.
I was in a
Gospel Essentials class late last year when we were reading the section on prophets. It said this (this just took me one minute to research on the Church website). It's chapter 9 and I quote:
A prophet may come from various stations in life. He may be young or old, highly educated or unschooled. He may be a farmer, a lawyer, or a teacher. Ancient prophets wore tunics and carried staffs. Modern prophets wear suits and carry briefcases. What, then, identifies a true prophet? A true prophet is always chosen by God and called through proper priesthood authority (see Articles of Faith 1:5).
Do you see the effort to condition the minds of the people who read this nonsense? I sat there in class literally squirming in my seat. What atrocious "doctrine" was being taught in that class that day by the manual. I couldn't say anything because, heck, people would look at me like I was apostate. I pick my battles.
The point is all of our leadership look alike. They are following a script. and part of that script says you have to look good, you have to look the part, as if a true servant called of God would have a briefcase and be wearing a nice $3,000 suit. But I'm sure a wolf would invest in a very nice sheep costume!
Don’t be upset if I don’t agree with your Avraham Gileadi interpretation of Isaiah. I have full faith and confidence that the leaders who have been called will warn us and have warned us of destruction that will come our way if we don’t make changes. Let’s not forget “time is running out”
