LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **April 10th, 2019, 11:53 am**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 8:32 am
Teancum wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 7:08 am
You would rather he left the pride cycle unchecked, and encouraged the congregation to cheer, boo, screech hysterically or bring their air horns and giant number one fingers to wave when their favorite city is announced?
I've told you a million times to stop exaggerating.

Sounds like a yes

Posted: **April 10th, 2019, 2:06 pm**

Regarding the hooting and hollering, I had a dream years ago that we as a congregation were not worthy of receiving new revelation because we were not reverent enough.

Posted: **April 11th, 2019, 3:01 pm**

Sarah wrote: ↑April 10th, 2019, 2:06 pm Regarding the hooting and hollering, I had a dream years ago that we as a congregation were not worthy of receiving new revelation because we were not reverent enough.

Maybe that's why they couldn't announce any changes.

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 1:48 am**

I wonder if the reverence police were present when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 7:54 am**

endlessismyname wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 7:36 pm
iWriteStuff wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 4:32 pm Biggest change in this General Conference weekend was....

No changes!

Who guessed that one?
My heart changed. Does that count?

Which way did your heart change?

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 8:01 am**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 4:02 am I was not impressed by Pres. Nelson requiring everyone to keep quiet and express no joy as he read out a list of new temples.
I thought that was petty.

Wow, even if something like that crossed my mind I would never express it. And, no, it did not cross my mind. I spent a lot of time preparing for the conference and I loved every minute of it and watched every minute of it and took notes and was disappointed when it had to end.

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 8:25 am**

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:01 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 4:02 am I was not impressed by Pres. Nelson requiring everyone to keep quiet and express no joy as he read out a list of new temples.
I thought that was petty.
Wow, even if something like that crossed my mind I would never express it.

Why?

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 8:37 am**

Alaris wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 1:48 am I wonder if the reverence police were present when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

well, they certainly weren't there when the Isrealites were having a party as Moses was receiving the revelations on the mount.

Exodus
Chapter 32
17 And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.

18 And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.

19 ¶ And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses’ anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

See I can quote scriptures too.

Oooooh, I had better be careful, it is said that even the devil can quote scripture.....

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 8:42 am**

Alaris wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 1:48 am I wonder if the reverence police were present when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

It was they were of one heart and mind, with Father, and His Son, who is the corner stone.

Some might define 'Sons of G_d' as the Great Yehovah's, all Seventh Estate Beings from throughout Father's creations. I do not think you can draw that distinction with the use of this title here, as the term 'Morning Stars' are anyone who has been born into the Morning of the First Resurrection in a Millennial realm.

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 8:48 am**

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:01 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 4:02 am I was not impressed by Pres. Nelson requiring everyone to keep quiet and express no joy as he read out a list of new temples.
I thought that was petty.
Wow, even if something like that crossed my mind I would never express it. And, no, it did not cross my mind. I spent a lot of time preparing for the conference and I loved every minute of it and watched every minute of it and took notes and was disappointed when it had to end.

We have indeed become a very prideful and boastful people these days, and respect is gone. People feel that they have the right to express every injustice they might feel.

You have shared an example here that others should take note of. Prepare yourself for conference and be in the proper spirit when you sit and watch/listen to it and you come out edified. Dont prepare and sit waiting to find fault and come out complaining and whinning about the smallest things.

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 10:41 am**

Teancum wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:37 am
Alaris wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 1:48 am I wonder if the reverence police were present when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
well, they certainly weren't there when the Isrealites were having a party as Moses was receiving the revelations on the mount.

Exodus
Chapter 32
17 And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.

18 And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.

19 ¶ And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses’ anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

See I can quote scriptures too.

Oooooh, I had better be careful, it is said that even the devil can quote scripture.....

That scripture doesn't make any sense. Because they were singing? Yeah, I'm sure Moses' anger waxed hot from the singing, but worshipping the calf was just fine...

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 8:00 pm**

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 7:54 am
endlessismyname wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 7:36 pm
iWriteStuff wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 4:32 pm Biggest change in this General Conference weekend was....

No changes!

Who guessed that one?
My heart changed. Does that count?
Which way did your heart change?

It softened. I'm really struggling to keep my head above water with the church, but listening to the talks, I find myself thinking that is great to be a part of an organization where so many people are trying to do good and be good.

As long as I don't worry about whether things are true, i'm good. It's when I try to prove that things are true that the wheels come off...

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 8:24 pm**

harakim wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 10:41 am
Teancum wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:37 am
Alaris wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 1:48 am I wonder if the reverence police were present when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
well, they certainly weren't there when the Isrealites were having a party as Moses was receiving the revelations on the mount.

Exodus
Chapter 32
17 And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.

18 And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.

19 ¶ And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses’ anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

See I can quote scriptures too.

Oooooh, I had better be careful, it is said that even the devil can quote scripture.....
That scripture doesn't make any sense. Because they were singing? Yeah, I'm sure Moses' anger waxed hot from the singing, but worshipping the calf was just fine...

No, silly, they were singing and dancing because they didn't reverence God nor his prophet, nor give respect to why they were there (to receive God's law and become close to Him). They were partying and living up the moment after turning away from God and His prophet in favor of something they could see and touch. The same thing happens to us when we mock, make jokes about the prophets and apostles, or when we take lightly their messages to us. A similar thing happened to Nephi and family on the boat to the promised land. Reverence, respect, honor and worship go away in favor of paaaarty time!.
It is not the act of singing and dancing, or making a noise, or an outburst that has brought the prophet's counsel to us. It is the lack of reverence and respect.

The Prophet of the living God was speaking - why on earth would we NOT want to pay the most closest attention and respect his words, and give glory, honor, and reverence to God for the privilege of witnessing that?

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 9:38 pm**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:25 am
Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:01 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 4:02 am I was not impressed by Pres. Nelson requiring everyone to keep quiet and express no joy as he read out a list of new temples.
I thought that was petty.
Wow, even if something like that crossed my mind I would never express it.
Why?

I thought you said you were or once were a bishop? I don't need to teach you.

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 9:39 pm**

MMbelieve wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:48 am
Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:01 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 4:02 am I was not impressed by Pres. Nelson requiring everyone to keep quiet and express no joy as he read out a list of new temples.
I thought that was petty.
Wow, even if something like that crossed my mind I would never express it. And, no, it did not cross my mind. I spent a lot of time preparing for the conference and I loved every minute of it and watched every minute of it and took notes and was disappointed when it had to end.
We have indeed become a very prideful and boastful people these days, and respect is gone. People feel that they have the right to express every injustice they might feel.

You have shared an example here that others should take note of. Prepare yourself for conference and be in the proper spirit when you sit and watch/listen to it and you come out edified. Dont prepare and sit waiting to find fault and come out complaining and whinning about the smallest things.

That sounds pretty factual.

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 10:09 pm**

endlessismyname wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:00 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 7:54 am
endlessismyname wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 7:36 pm
iWriteStuff wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 4:32 pm Biggest change in this General Conference weekend was....

No changes!

Who guessed that one?
My heart changed. Does that count?
Which way did your heart change?
It softened. I'm really struggling to keep my head above water with the church, but listening to the talks, I find myself thinking that is great to be a part of an organization where so many people are trying to do good and be good.

As long as I don't worry about whether things are true, i'm good. It's when I try to prove that things are true that the wheels come off...

I hear you. The gospel, the leadership, the church, the Book of Mormon and everything about this restored gospel can only be proven to you and anyone else by God. No amount of education or reasoning can prove it to anyone. The happiness this knowledge has brought me has lifted me from a world of horrible depression caused by the acts of others. I cannot prove anything about this gospel and in this life might never be given that power, but, God has proven to me that it is true in many ways, the most convincing of all being by the power of the Holy Ghost, which when you humble yourself and receive it, it completely changes your way of thinking and makes you desire that you could prove it to everyone because of this joy you want to share and yet you cannot prove it. When you receive this blessing of feeling through the Holy Ghost, it is like nothing else you will ever experience and you will know what it is and it is available to every humble seeker.

Posted: **April 12th, 2019, 11:43 pm**

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 9:38 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:25 am
Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:01 am
Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 4:02 am I was not impressed by Pres. Nelson requiring everyone to keep quiet and express no joy as he read out a list of new temples.
I thought that was petty.
Wow, even if something like that crossed my mind I would never express it.
Why?
I thought you said you were or once were a bishop? I don't need to teach you.

Cop out.

Posted: **April 13th, 2019, 6:26 am**

It softened. I'm really struggling to keep my head above water with the church, but listening to the talks, I find myself thinking that is great to be a part of an organization where so many people are trying to do good and be good.

Each one of us has to get to this place. Even Jesus had to press forward through the darkness that overwhelmed Him - feeling forsaken.

With so much evil, corruption, and darkness increasing on every side - even when we feel alone - it is better to hold fast to Hope for a better way and have the Faith we will more fully understand all things as we move forward.

Yes, it helps to be associated with "so many people...trying to do good and be good", but 'the church' is a framework in which we practice the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Becoming a Son or Daughter of Christ is the goal.

Mosiah 5
7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

Posted: **April 13th, 2019, 7:43 am**

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 10:09 pm
endlessismyname wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:00 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 7:54 am
endlessismyname wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 7:36 pm

My heart changed. Does that count?
Which way did your heart change?
It softened. I'm really struggling to keep my head above water with the church, but listening to the talks, I find myself thinking that is great to be a part of an organization where so many people are trying to do good and be good.

As long as I don't worry about whether things are true, i'm good. It's when I try to prove that things are true that the wheels come off...
I hear you. The gospel, the leadership, the church, the Book of Mormon and everything about this restored gospel can only be proven to you and anyone else by God. No amount of education or reasoning can prove it to anyone. The happiness this knowledge has brought me has lifted me from a world of horrible depression caused by the acts of others. I cannot prove anything about this gospel and in this life might never be given that power, but, God has proven to me that it is true in many ways, the most convincing of all being by the power of the Holy Ghost, which when you humble yourself and receive it, it completely changes your way of thinking and makes you desire that you could prove it to everyone because of this joy you want to share and yet you cannot prove it. When you receive this blessing of feeling through the Holy Ghost, it is like nothing else you will ever experience and you will know what it is and it is available to every humble seeker.

Thanks for your testimony, brother. I'm slowly learning that what you've said is true. It's hard for me to let go of the idea that it's only true if you can prove it through logic or reason. I'll get there, though. At least I think I'll get there.

Posted: **April 13th, 2019, 9:37 am**

endlessismyname wrote: ↑April 13th, 2019, 7:43 am
Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 10:09 pm
endlessismyname wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:00 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 7:54 am

Which way did your heart change?
It softened. I'm really struggling to keep my head above water with the church, but listening to the talks, I find myself thinking that is great to be a part of an organization where so many people are trying to do good and be good.

As long as I don't worry about whether things are true, i'm good. It's when I try to prove that things are true that the wheels come off...
I hear you. The gospel, the leadership, the church, the Book of Mormon and everything about this restored gospel can only be proven to you and anyone else by God. No amount of education or reasoning can prove it to anyone. The happiness this knowledge has brought me has lifted me from a world of horrible depression caused by the acts of others. I cannot prove anything about this gospel and in this life might never be given that power, but, God has proven to me that it is true in many ways, the most convincing of all being by the power of the Holy Ghost, which when you humble yourself and receive it, it completely changes your way of thinking and makes you desire that you could prove it to everyone because of this joy you want to share and yet you cannot prove it. When you receive this blessing of feeling through the Holy Ghost, it is like nothing else you will ever experience and you will know what it is and it is available to every humble seeker.
Thanks for your testimony, brother. I'm slowly learning that what you've said is true. It's hard for me to let go of the idea that it's only true if you can prove it through logic or reason. I'll get there, though. At least I think I'll get there.

When I first joined the church in 1974 I went to teach my grandmother, things went south in a hurry. It's been a hard lesson to swallow over the years.

Posted: **April 13th, 2019, 9:38 am**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 11:43 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 9:38 pm
Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:25 am
Craig Johnson wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:01 am

Wow, even if something like that crossed my mind I would never express it.
Why?
I thought you said you were or once were a bishop? I don't need to teach you.
Cop out.

To quote John Lennon: "I've got blisters on my fingers!"

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 9:35 am**

Teancum wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:24 pm
harakim wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 10:41 am
Teancum wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 8:37 am
Alaris wrote: ↑April 12th, 2019, 1:48 am I wonder if the reverence police were present when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
well, they certainly weren't there when the Isrealites were having a party as Moses was receiving the revelations on the mount.

Exodus
Chapter 32
17 And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.

18 And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.

19 ¶ And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses’ anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

See I can quote scriptures too.

Oooooh, I had better be careful, it is said that even the devil can quote scripture.....
That scripture doesn't make any sense. Because they were singing? Yeah, I'm sure Moses' anger waxed hot from the singing, but worshipping the calf was just fine...
No, silly, they were singing and dancing because they didn't reverence God nor his prophet, nor give respect to why they were there (to receive God's law and become close to Him). They were partying and living up the moment after turning away from God and His prophet in favor of something they could see and touch. The same thing happens to us when we mock, make jokes about the prophets and apostles, or when we take lightly their messages to us. A similar thing happened to Nephi and family on the boat to the promised land. Reverence, respect, honor and worship go away in favor of paaaarty time!.
It is not the act of singing and dancing, or making a noise, or an outburst that has brought the prophet's counsel to us. It is the lack of reverence and respect.

The Prophet of the living God was speaking - why on earth would we NOT want to pay the most closest attention and respect his words, and give glory, honor, and reverence to God for the privilege of witnessing that?

I never thought of being excited and listening at the same time as multi-tasking. I assume everyone could do both.

Posted: **April 18th, 2019, 2:18 pm**

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 4:02 am
5tev3 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 1:13 am It was refreshing to have just a plain old conference. A lot of great messages, I enjoyed hearing them and the manner that they are delivered. It isn't a spectacle to entertain, the delivery allows one to really listen and meditate on the words. I do enjoy a fiery sermon as well, but I like conference just the way it is. My favorite talks are ones that are doctrinally based, I mostly care about understanding doctrine and principles better.

I don't like sports analogy talks or anything 'cute' I prefer the style of Oaks, Bednar, Maxwell, and Packer but that's just me. I do enjoy a Holland and Uchtdorf talk as well, perhaps even a Christofferson. I do my best to take what I can from everyone else. It's common for me to not like a talk at all but then after reading it later find all kinds of great things. Some talks just read better, maybe it was the speaker's delivery.

I love the fact that we have conference though, it's a great tradition.
There are certainly speakers who appear to get it.
I was impressed by Elder McKay's sermon.

I was not impressed by Pres. Nelson requiring everyone to keep quiet and express no joy as he read out a list of new temples.
I thought that was petty.

I was at that conference and it was crazy loud with cheers and clapping. It was really irreverant and may not have come across that way on the broadcast. I am glad he said this this time.

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