LDS Freedom Forum

"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

Maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but does this mean that when we die or when the Second Coming happens our memories of all the pain, suffering, and misery of this hell called mortality will be wiped from our memories?

Avraham Gileadi

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/65#commentary

Isaiah 65
17 See, I create new heavens and a new earth;
former events shall not be remembered
or recalled to mind.
18 Rejoice, then, and be glad forever in what I create.
See, I create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.

The rebirth or re-creation of Jehovah’s people on higher spiritual levels—for which their descent phase through adversity prepared them—ultimately brings about the rebirth or re-creation of the earth itself. As the ascent of righteous individuals such as Jehovah’s seraphs-servants directly impacts the ascent of a new nation of Jehovah’s people to exalted spiritual categories, so the parallel ascent of the earth to a paradisiacal glory leads to its positioning in a new or higher heavens. The state of joy that characterizes this development so transforms its participants that it permeates their whole existence.

What are “heavens” and “earth” symbolic of?

Hint: one fertilises the other producing life.

That’s just what I believe to be the deepest interpretation, though I believe there are many, including what’s been said.

Alaris wrote: ↑April 6th, 2019, 9:30 pm
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away

Alaris, what an awesome post. Verse four was soooooo good! Thanks for the reminder!

No, its like the Provo City Center Temple. The temple is so glorious and beautiful, few will remember the old tabernacle or the fire.

https://www.reparteegallery.com/provo-c ... den-sunset

Alaris wrote: ↑April 6th, 2019, 9:30 pm
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away

I have never understood the start of verse four. It seems to me that after all of this has passed away, after all the misery and suffering is gone, and when our tears are a distant memory, then and only then will God wipe away our tears.

The new earth is the earth being restored to its paradisaical glory.
The new heaven is the earth moving back to the location in the galaxy where it was originally created (as it was moved here at the fall of man).

brianj wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 8:23 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑April 6th, 2019, 9:30 pm
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away

I have never understood the start of verse four. It seems to me that after all of this has passed away, after all the misery and suffering is gone, and when our tears are a distant memory, then and only then will God wipe away our tears.

I think that your interpretation is way too literal. In my opinion, wiping the tears is just another expression for taking the misery and suffering away. It is not a bullet point in an exact and chronological list describing the sequence of the events.

mes5464 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 9:11 am The new earth is the earth being restored to its paradisaical glory.
The new heaven is the earth moving back to the location in the galaxy where it was originally created (as it was moved here at the fall of man).

This is the way I have always understood it, the only question I still have is the "and there was no more sea" statement. I believe it is referencing that the whole earth will be a solid mass, but since sea is can be used as a reference to people or spirits it makes me wonder if there is more to this than I have previously considered.

Shaffer89 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 10:42 am

mes5464 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 9:11 am The new earth is the earth being restored to its paradisaical glory.
The new heaven is the earth moving back to the location in the galaxy where it was originally created (as it was moved here at the fall of man).

This is the way I have always understood it, the only question I still have is the "and there was no more sea" statement. I believe it is referencing that the whole earth will be a solid mass, but since sea is can be used as a reference to people or spirits it makes me wonder if there is more to this than I have previously considered.

I thought the seas represented death, chaos, evil, destruction, and other things which Christ overcame.
Puts new meaning to Christ walking on water and also the symbol of coming out of the water in baptism.

Shaffer89 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 10:42 am

mes5464 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 9:11 am The new earth is the earth being restored to its paradisaical glory.
The new heaven is the earth moving back to the location in the galaxy where it was originally created (as it was moved here at the fall of man).

This is the way I have always understood it, the only question I still have is the "and there was no more sea" statement. I believe it is referencing that the whole earth will be a solid mass, but since sea is can be used as a reference to people or spirits it makes me wonder if there is more to this than I have previously considered.

The "no more sea" is in Revelation 21.

When the earth is returned to is paradisaical glory, all of the land will return to one continent.

In the 1828 Websters gives one definition of "sea" as a large body of water, nearly inclosed by land, as the Baltic or the Mediterranean; as the sea of Azof. Seas are properly branches of the ocean, and upon the same level. Large bodies of water inland, and situated above the level of the ocean, are lakes. The appellation of sea, given to the Caspian lake, is an exception, and not very correct. So the lake of Galilee is called a sea, from the Greek.

Since all of the oceans will be one body, then it most likely means that there will be oceans but no seas.

mes5464 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 9:11 am The new earth is the earth being restored to its paradisaical glory.
The new heaven is the earth moving back to the location in the galaxy where it was originally created (as it was moved here at the fall of man).

I get that, but my question focuses on: "the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

We all have trials, but for some people it seems to be much worse, leading to my question of if our memories are going to be wiped.
Is the memory going to be erased for every sex trafficking victim so they don't recall being raped daily for years until they are murdered?
Is the memory going to be erased for every woman in this church who never marries or is infertile, so they don't recall suffering every day because they will never have the children that it seems every woman around them have?
Is my memory going to be erased so I don't recall feeling unwanted, unloved, and totally alone?

brianj wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 10:19 pm

mes5464 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 9:11 am The new earth is the earth being restored to its paradisaical glory.
The new heaven is the earth moving back to the location in the galaxy where it was originally created (as it was moved here at the fall of man).

I get that, but my question focuses on: "the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

We all have trials, but for some people it seems to be much worse, leading to my question of if our memories are going to be wiped.
Is the memory going to be erased for every sex trafficking victim so they don't recall being raped daily for years until they are murdered?
Is the memory going to be erased for every woman in this church who never marries or is infertile, so they don't recall suffering every day because they will never have the children that it seems every woman around them have?
Is my memory going to be erased so I don't recall feeling unwanted, unloved, and totally alone?

I think it's more akin to this scripture:

D&C 58:42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.


He remembers them no more is more than just a choice but the power of the Atonement that applies to us. I believe this is the same meaning as the former shall not be remembered. The fallen world is full of illness, sin, corruption etc. I believe this is the spirit in which the former shall not be remembered. Of course we will have benefited from our sojourn through this veil of tears, but the context of a new heaven and earth means the paradise will be so amazing we will no longer be bound or haunted by the pain and memories of this world as our souls will be healed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ though we may choose to remember.