LDS Freedom Forum

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 12:04 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 9:00 am

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 8:41 am

John Tavner wrote: ↑April 6th, 2019, 7:34 pm Ahhhh I wanted sooo badly to like all of Pres. Nelson's talk in the priesthood session. Sooo close, so close to being entirely true. Though In my opinion so far, this is the best talk given in conference so far. Something was missing though and I can't put my finger on it.

It would have been nice to hear this talk in a general session, and have social media and soap operas, talk shows (I never knew how much talk show trash there was until recently), and reality shows included for the women.

It would have been nice to hear a letter from a man trying hard to make it withOUT kids because his wife divorced him for any number of reasons this board has talked about before.

I agree. I wonder if there will be a comparable letter from a husband read in the Relief Society General meeting this October? I also wish this talk would have been/would be given in the RS General meeting, AND in one of the sessions today, as ALL members need to hear it, not just the men by any means.

Also, I thought we, the members, were instructed to NEVER write the General Authorities? So how did this letter from a wife complaining that her husband watches sports get through to the President of the Church??? I know firsthand of several cases of members writing apostles (with MUCH greater concerns than this wife), and in every single case, their letter got sent from Church HQ to the member's stake president, who then called them in and scolded them for DARING to write the apostles. So how did this letter of complaint get all the way to President Nelson's desk??

I think that recently the women's organizations have done a little better at "keeping their own in line", though when one gave a command form in her talk, it was changed to add a "Please..." to make it nicer in the printed edition.

About writing... Whoops. I've done it, more than once. But only about things that a bishop and stake president, even 70's, can't/ won't handle, and I'm quite confident they won't pass it up (due to culture, their personal beliefs, etc.). I've written about temple clothing, temple temperature, healing, missionary work, etc. Most were received, a few responded to, one responded to personally, and one ill-received. I've never had one sent back like that.

I also wrote the general RS one time about "the other side", but didn't get a response.

I imagine that the GA's receive hundreds of letters, many of them in a similar vein of marriage problems, divorce, and how God helped the writers and their families overcome problems. I think they would receive those kinds much better than doctrinal questions, complaints, where the BoM lands were, etc.

marc wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 10:50 am I thought her talk was well done. My wife observed that her talk was not characteristic of the typical conference speakers' rhythms.

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 12:51 pm BTW... Does anyone know anyone remotely connected to the people who film the choir? Is it possible to pass on messages:

"Stop showing the same people, over and over!" (Still, better than a few years ago, when I counted about 42 times they showed one woman, and others about 1 or 2.) Give everyone the same view time, I'm sure everyone will appreciate it much more. Not like, "I was in the TCatTS for three years, but my kids only saw me on the broadcasts six times, because I"m not 'beautiful' and I wasn't standing near anyone 'beautiful'."

"You don't have to focus on the minority to show we have diversity. Just show everyone, and people will notice them." Same thing if a guy has a moustache.

Hosh4710 wrote: ↑April 6th, 2019, 6:15 pm

John Tavner wrote: ↑April 6th, 2019, 4:08 pm Even a year or two ago I would have loved Elder Holland's talk. However, I found it to be largely Pharisaical and lacking in doctrine. He said a lot of truths, but the meat was missing, it was almost entirely milk. The point of the sacrament is for us to renew our covenant with Christ that we will remember Him and be willing to take upon us His name. This means full submission we are willing to die and receive another baptism of fire. His bread (commandments fill us with knowledge) and His Spirit (His blood cleanses us as we always remember Him). When we do this, our thoughts will naturally go to those who are suffering or need help. When our focus is on Christ and not on the ordinance by itself it gives us an opportunity to gauge whether we have drawn closer or become more like the Lord or fallen farther away. It is a true recovenanting of ourselves to God. Doing those things he mentioned will naturally come when Christ becomes our focul point throughout the week. Not the ordinance itself - all ordinances point to something. If we are not willing to submit our whole self completely and are not willing to take upon ourselves His name, we take the sacrament in vain. This truly means that we are willing to give up the world and all we have for Him. We covenant to follow His commandments (the commandments the Spirit gives us to do i.e. follow the Spirit) all through out the week, and by so doing we obtain His countenance upon us which changes us and by having His Spirit with us, then we become liek Him by remembering Him and having gratitude for all He gives us.

I felt the same way. There are times where he gave his classic Hollandesque raise of his voice and emotion, which thing I used to crave out of him when I watched conference. Now listening to it, it really is just that, an appeal to emotion. So much milk and no meat. Like you said there was alot of good, but just way too much focus on the ordinance itself. He made the comment that the Sacrament is the single most important activity any of us can do all week long. This comment made me turn to Alma 31 and re-read about what the Zoramites were doing. The message is essentially the same. I doubt Enos would say that Sunday worship is the most important thing you could do, after his wrestle with God led to his being born again. I doubt Lehi or Nephi would say that a once-a-week ordinance is the most important thing they could do after their faith filled prayers and ponderings led to their visions of the tree of life. I doubt the brother of Jared would say that after His experience with seeing the Lord in the flesh. Ordinances in themselves are not the most important things we can do. True repentance, in other words, fully submitting to God and forsaking everything the world has to offer, this is the most important thing I can seek after throughout the week, and it should happen on a daily basis, not once a week. Then when we experience the fruit of this sacrifice, like you said, the things that he mentions will come naturally. Instead, many of us today have it backwards. We make a checklist out of these activities before actually reconciling ourselves to Christ. Most members of the Church think this way because we truly believe we were already born again at our baptisms, so naturally these other ordinances are our focus now that we've been "born again". Sadly, this false belief keeps so many of us from ACTUALLY seeking a spiritual rebirth so that the ordinances we participate in have power to bring us closer to Him. Instead, these ordinances today bear little if any fruit at all because the required sacrifice has not been made.

marc wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 12:54 pm

drtanner wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 12:21 pm

marc wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 11:41 am It's been surreal for me to hear conference speakers use the term, "disciple of Jesus Christ" this weekend.

As surreal as watching those who claim to be disciples make passive aggressive, cynical, or accusational statements towards those he has called to lead his church as they do there best to help the world come unto him?

Touché! Although John the Baptist, Jesus, and also some of His disciples made accusational statements towards those called to lead the primitive church. Furthermore, consider that Peter denied Christ three times, Thomas doubted he resurrected, ALL of them deserted Him in Gethsemane, and Paul persecuted Him.

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 4:06 pmNo doubt you are Elias, the Davidic servant, the stem of Jesse, and the one to set all things straight. I'll be able to say, "Yeah, that guy posted on ldsff!"

Keep dreaming.

marc wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 4:20 pm

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 4:06 pmNo doubt you are Elias, the Davidic servant, the stem of Jesse, and the one to set all things straight. I'll be able to say, "Yeah, that guy posted on ldsff!"

Keep dreaming.

Um, ok...that is officially the weirdest post I've read since I've been on this forum.

Hosh4710 wrote: ↑April 6th, 2019, 6:15 pm

John Tavner wrote: ↑April 6th, 2019, 4:08 pm Even a year or two ago I would have loved Elder Holland's talk. However, I found it to be largely Pharisaical and lacking in doctrine. He said a lot of truths, but the meat was missing, it was almost entirely milk. The point of the sacrament is for us to renew our covenant with Christ that we will remember Him and be willing to take upon us His name. This means full submission we are willing to die and receive another baptism of fire. His bread (commandments fill us with knowledge) and His Spirit (His blood cleanses us as we always remember Him). When we do this, our thoughts will naturally go to those who are suffering or need help. When our focus is on Christ and not on the ordinance by itself it gives us an opportunity to gauge whether we have drawn closer or become more like the Lord or fallen farther away. It is a true recovenanting of ourselves to God. Doing those things he mentioned will naturally come when Christ becomes our focul point throughout the week. Not the ordinance itself - all ordinances point to something. If we are not willing to submit our whole self completely and are not willing to take upon ourselves His name, we take the sacrament in vain. This truly means that we are willing to give up the world and all we have for Him. We covenant to follow His commandments (the commandments the Spirit gives us to do i.e. follow the Spirit) all through out the week, and by so doing we obtain His countenance upon us which changes us and by having His Spirit with us, then we become liek Him by remembering Him and having gratitude for all He gives us.

I felt the same way. There are times where he gave his classic Hollandesque raise of his voice and emotion, which thing I used to crave out of him when I watched conference. Now listening to it, it really is just that, an appeal to emotion. So much milk and no meat. Like you said there was alot of good, but just way too much focus on the ordinance itself. He made the comment that the Sacrament is the single most important activity any of us can do all week long. This comment made me turn to Alma 31 and re-read about what the Zoramites were doing. The message is essentially the same. I doubt Enos would say that Sunday worship is the most important thing you could do, after his wrestle with God led to his being born again. I doubt Lehi or Nephi would say that a once-a-week ordinance is the most important thing they could do after their faith filled prayers and ponderings led to their visions of the tree of life. I doubt the brother of Jared would say that after His experience with seeing the Lord in the flesh. Ordinances in themselves are not the most important things we can do. True repentance, in other words, fully submitting to God and forsaking everything the world has to offer, this is the most important thing I can seek after throughout the week, and it should happen on a daily basis, not once a week. Then when we experience the fruit of this sacrifice, like you said, the things that he mentions will come naturally. Instead, many of us today have it backwards. We make a checklist out of these activities before actually reconciling ourselves to Christ. Most members of the Church think this way because we truly believe we were already born again at our baptisms, so naturally these other ordinances are our focus now that we've been "born again". Sadly, this false belief keeps so many of us from ACTUALLY seeking a spiritual rebirth so that the ordinances we participate in have power to bring us closer to Him. Instead, these ordinances today bear little if any fruit at all because the required sacrifice has not been made.

B. wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 11:39 am Not looking very good so far for all the alleged changes... better be building up to something epic later today

marc wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 5:01 pm I just rewatched Sister Eubank's talk. I think hers is my favorite talk this conference.

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 4:06 pm

marc wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 12:54 pm

drtanner wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 12:21 pm

marc wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 11:41 am It's been surreal for me to hear conference speakers use the term, "disciple of Jesus Christ" this weekend.

As surreal as watching those who claim to be disciples make passive aggressive, cynical, or accusational statements towards those he has called to lead his church as they do there best to help the world come unto him?

Touché! Although John the Baptist, Jesus, and also some of His disciples made accusational statements towards those called to lead the primitive church. Furthermore, consider that Peter denied Christ three times, Thomas doubted he resurrected, ALL of them deserted Him in Gethsemane, and Paul persecuted Him.

No doubt you are Elias, the Davidic servant, the stem of Jesse, and the one to set all things straight. I'll be able to say, "Yeah, that guy posted on ldsff!"

Keep dreaming.

"In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 8:44 am

"In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."

Has this ever NOT been the case? In the history of this earth, when has this not been what we have been instructed to do by the scriptures and any/all prophets? No one, since Adam took his first breath, has been able to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost. Ever.

Hosh4710 wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 10:02 am The problem is, everyone in the church believes they already have the GoTHG. Many believe that after their baptism they have been following the HG all along. The line of thinking is, if you take the sacrament weekly, do your church callings, and have a current temple recommend, then you qualify for the GoTHG and its just a manner of getting "more of it" line up in line for the rest of your life. Many believe this way because our leaders teach it this way. This is not evil speaking of my leaders, it is simply pointing out that what is being taught does not jive with what the ancient prophets taught about the need to be born again. I agree with President Nelson, but how can I follow his counsel if at the same time others of the 12 are saying that its ok to follow revelation, as long as it is within the parameters that the leadership have set. The church members will never learn how to receive their own revelation (beyond a certain point) if leaders put limits on what they can receive.

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 9:26 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑April 8th, 2019, 8:44 am

"In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."

Has this ever NOT been the case? In the history of this earth, when has this not been what we have been instructed to do by the scriptures and any/all prophets? No one, since Adam took his first breath, has been able to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost. Ever.

I think it will be different, and as we get there, we'll understand more and more and agree with what he said.

ajax wrote: ↑April 7th, 2019, 8:29 pm How long does it take opium to wear off?