Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

I think God changes his mind a lot. Before you defenders of the faith say it was just a policy. Read this. https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php? ... type=cmsid

A short synopsis of the linked article. President Monson's regime announces the November policy. A couple of months later President Nelson, then the senior apostle, calls it a revelation. So which is it? A policy or a revelation.

Gaslighting at its finest.

It's hard not to be cynical with stuff like this. I try not to let things like this bother me or further deteriorate my testimony, but it does and is. That's why it's so important to focus on the doctrine of Christ even at the expense of "following the prophet."

[topcat]

Reversing themselves again from the debacle of several years ago that their focus groups couldn't even predict the social outrage. This announcement will be met with great applaud.

One step closer to recognizing gay marriage.

You know it's coming.

[lemuel]

So, I took flak when I said the policy, now being dumped, was just that, a policy. It was not revelation.

I think God changes his mind a lot. Before you defenders of the faith say it was just a policy. Read this. https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php? ... type=cmsid

A short synopsis of the linked article. President Monson's regime announces the November policy. A couple of months later President Nelson, then the senior apostle, calls it a revelation. So which is it? A policy or a revelation.

Gaslighting at its finest.

2016 Russell Nelson: https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ ... s?lang=eng

The First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles counsel together and share all the Lord has directed us to understand and to feel individually and collectively. And then we watch the Lord move upon the President of the Church to proclaim the Lord’s will.

This prophetic process was followed in 2012 with the change in minimum age for missionaries and again with the recent additions to the Church’s handbook, consequent to the legalization of same-sex marriage in some countries. Filled with compassion for all, and especially for the children, we wrestled at length to understand the Lord’s will in this matter. Ever mindful of God’s plan of salvation and of His hope for eternal life for each of His children, we considered countless permutations and combinations of possible scenarios that could arise. We met repeatedly in the temple in fasting and prayer and sought further direction and inspiration. And then, when the Lord inspired His prophet, President Thomas S. Monson, to declare the mind of the Lord and the will of the Lord, each of us during that sacred moment felt a spiritual confirmation. It was our privilege as Apostles to sustain what had been revealed to President Monson.

600BC Jeremiah:

Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.

I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

[topcat]

I think God changes his mind a lot. Before you defenders of the faith say it was just a policy. Read this. https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php? ... type=cmsid

A short synopsis of the linked article. President Monson's regime announces the November policy. A couple of months later President Nelson, then the senior apostle, calls it a revelation. So which is it? A policy or a revelation.

Gaslighting at its finest.

Or that God is able to allow differing policy changes in differing times and seasons. Key word allow.

An image occurred to my mind. An ocean liner has almost completely sunk. All that's left above water, seconds before it too submerges, is this sign attached to the top of the mast: "The ship is not sinking."

That sign is the gaslighting. It is effective for some if not many or most.

At what point will people wake up and call a spade a spade, and dispense with the mental gymnastics.

[lemuel]

There have also been ministering angels in the Church which were of Satan appearing as an angel of light. A sister in the state of New York had a vision, who said it was told her that if she would go to a certain place in the woods, an angel would appear to her. She went at the appointed time, and saw a glorious personage descending, arrayed in white, with sandy colored hair; he commenced and told her to fear God, and said that her husband was called to do great things, but that he must not go more than one hundred miles from home, or he would not return; whereas God had called him to go to the ends of the earth, and he has since been more than one thousand miles from home, and is yet alive. Many true things were spoken by this personage, and many things that were false. How, it may be asked, was this known to be a bad angel? By the color of his hair; that is one of the signs that he can be known by, and by his contradicting a former revelation. (Joseph Smith, HC vol 4, ch. 33)

[brlenox]

A short synopsis of the linked article. President Monson's regime announces the November policy. A couple of months later President Nelson, then the senior apostle, calls it a revelation. So which is it? A policy or a revelation.

Gaslighting at its finest.

Oof.

Maybe oaf?

[iWriteStuff]

A short synopsis of the linked article. President Monson's regime announces the November policy. A couple of months later President Nelson, then the senior apostle, calls it a revelation. So which is it? A policy or a revelation.

Gaslighting at its finest.

Oof.

Maybe oaf?

To quote the article from SLTrib in 2016:

"President Thomas S. Monson, considered a "prophet, seer and revelator" in the 15 million-member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, declared "the mind of the Lord and the will of the Lord."

That led to the Utah-based faith's new policy regarding same-sex Mormon couples — that they would be labeled "apostates" and that their children would not be allowed baptism and other LDS religious rites until they turn 18.

"Each of us during that sacred moment felt a spiritual confirmation," Nelson, next in line for the Mormon presidency, told the faith's young adults in the first official explanation of the hotly debated policy's origins. "It was our privilege as apostles to sustain what had been revealed to President Monson."

Nelson explained that revelation from the Lord to his servants is a sacred process.

"The [three-member] First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles counsel together and share all the Lord has directed us to understand and to feel, individually and collectively," he said. "And then, we watch the Lord move upon the president of the church to proclaim the Lord's will.""

To say that's confusing when juxtaposed with a completely opposite revelation three years later is putting it lightly.

What's next?

[mirkwood]

You know if you are not happy with the church nobody is making you be a member. You can leave if you want, nobody will make you stay where you are unhappy, not even God. You do not need an excuse, you can simply say I do not want to be here and leave.

[lemuel]

To quote the article from SLTrib in 2016:

"President Thomas S. Monson, considered a "prophet, seer and revelator" in the 15 million-member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, declared "the mind of the Lord and the will of the Lord."

That led to the Utah-based faith's new policy regarding same-sex Mormon couples — that they would be labeled "apostates" and that their children would not be allowed baptism and other LDS religious rites until they turn 18.

"Each of us during that sacred moment felt a spiritual confirmation," Nelson, next in line for the Mormon presidency, told the faith's young adults in the first official explanation of the hotly debated policy's origins. "It was our privilege as apostles to sustain what had been revealed to President Monson."

Nelson explained that revelation from the Lord to his servants is a sacred process.

"The [three-member] First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles counsel together and share all the Lord has directed us to understand and to feel, individually and collectively," he said. "And then, we watch the Lord move upon the president of the church to proclaim the Lord's will.""

To say that's confusing when juxtaposed with a completely opposite revelation three years later is putting it lightly.

What's next?

"Eat Your Vitamin Pills. Get Some Rest. It's Going to Be Exciting."

[iWriteStuff]

You know if you are not happy with the church nobody is making you be a member. You can leave if you want, nobody will make you stay where you are unhappy, not even God. You do not need an excuse, you can simply say I do not want to be here and leave.

There's a difference between not wanting to be a part of the church and trying to understand the perceived flip-flop. Even to stalwart members, this can appear a bit confusing.

[ori]

Meh, I think Mirkwood has the idea.... as far as actual baptisms, how many actual new baptisms will result? Maybe a handful, worldwide. The real change here is how the membership will see the Church. In other words, this will allow the LGBT members & "allies" to have one less grievance against the church. This may help lead some to the church, but push away others (such as those in this forum that doubt that Presidents Monson & Nelson were/are the Lord's anointed).

Again, to me this just shows us that the wheat and the tares are growing together. In other words, it seems the church is still teaching the truth, but slightly changing policy to allow the tares to stay in the church, as per fulfillment of scripture.

How strong is your testimony of living prophets if minor policy changes affect it? Food for thought.

[lemuel]

One might say, if they took President Nelson at his word, that it was a policy change that contradicted a revelation.

[mirkwood]

There's a difference between not wanting to be a part of the church and trying to understand the perceived flip-flop. Even to stalwart members, this can appear a bit confusing.

General "you" not iwritestuff "you."

[Dlight]

God will give us, including the Prophet, whatever we repeatedly ask for whether its right or wrong, then we are left to suffer the consequences of the action.

Jospeh Smith lost the 116 pages because he kept asking and didn't accept the Lord's first answer.

The Lord does not command in all things, sometimes he may also let us go down the wrong path before changing us to the right just sp we are certain of it. Joseph Smith ordained a black person to the Priesthood so we know the Lord probably would have allowed that to happen sooner.

If we don't ask God we don't always get told what to do in all things. Sometimes hes ready to give, but we never ask. Cultural pressure or other pressing needs are often the only thing that creates the needed situation for a Prophet or person to actually bow down, fast and pray and do whats required to receive that kind of revelation.

[topcat]

It will definitely be interesting to watch members do all types of mental gymnastics to explain what is happening, and how such a monumental change in "revelation" occurred within just a few short years.

We have already seen some attempts in this thread.

News flash: put your seat belt on, because there will be many more changes coming down the pike.

[topcat]

God will give us, including the Prophet, whatever we repeatedly ask for whether its right or wrong, then we are left to suffer the consequences of the action.

Jospeh Smith lost the 116 pages because he kept asking and didn't accept the Lord's first answer.

The Lord does not command in all things, sometimes he may also let us go down the wrong path before changing us to the right just sp we are certain of it. Joseph Smith ordained a black person to the Priesthood so we know the Lord probably would have allowed that to happen sooner.

If we don't ask God we don't always get told what to do in all things. Sometimes hes ready to give, but we never ask. Cultural pressure or other pressing needs are often the only thing that creates the needed situation for a Prophet or person to actually bow down, fast and pray and do whats required to receive that kind of revelation.

Agreed. Here is how the Bible says what you said...

2 Thess 2:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[Kingdom of ZION]

We continue down a very slippery slope, pandering to the world.

Nah. We continue to be guided by Apostles and Prophets, who are led by the Lord, helping to bring Christ’s church into the 21’s century.

LOL. It is hard for me understand how anyone can still think they speak for God when they makes change based on social pressures and study groups.

You don’t believe God can make corrections to manmade policies if he sees fit? You don’t believe the correction to the “Blacks and the Priesthood” policy in 1978 was inspired by God? Polygamy? You don’t believe church leaders should be able to change policy? For example, length of missions for men from 24 months to 18 then back to 24 (1982) or dropping Jesus Christ from the name in 1834, then restoring it in 1838.

If you don’t believe our leaders speak for God (when God speaks to them. All men are fallible), then what’s the point in staying a member? (maybe you’re not. I just assumed). Let us know when you find the “true church” where the leaders really do speak for God. I’d truly be interested in your findings.

The Fullness of the Gospel is always here for a very short time period, usually 8 years, with a complete apostasy in 60 years then the covenant is broken. Look at the different Dispensations, that is the pattern.

If you are so blessed as to be here when the next Dispensation dawns, you may be so blessed as to ride the wave of enlightenment, and embrace the new light revealed, if you can.

A whole generation was lost in Moses Dispensation, Adam's and Noah's Dispensations were the exception because of the differences in long life expediency of the people. There is a difference in Terrestrial Dispensations and Telestial Dispensations. The Dispensational Presidencies (the Priest and King) remaining longer, and through their borrowed light, guiding the people and sustaining them allows for these longer times of no apostasy.

Though the peoples of the New World were not apart of any Dispensation, they however made the second most valiant attempt at obtaining the heavenly Zion. But then they had three translated beings helping them. When Melchizedek (the Messiah) succeeded, He and Noah were also translated, thou they were in a telestial realm, and they were the Dispensation Priest and King, which is a clearly greater light given unto the children of men, at that time, and why they succeeded in obtaining the heavenly gift, and being able to lift up others unto Zion.

We shall see these times come again!

[Vision]

We continue down a very slippery slope, pandering to the world.

Nah. We continue to be guided by Apostles and Prophets, who are led by the Lord, helping to bring Christ’s church into the 21’s century.

Seriously? This is just a reversal of a 4 year old policy change, not some divine revelation.

[drtanner]

You know if you are not happy with the church nobody is making you be a member. You can leave if you want, nobody will make you stay where you are unhappy, not even God. You do not need an excuse, you can simply say I do not want to be here and leave.

Mirk,

I don’t think lots of these folks want to leave and I don’t want them to, they just want to better understand and I think that is ok given the situation.

[cab]

I think God changes his mind a lot. Before you defenders of the faith say it was just a policy. Read this. https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php? ... type=cmsid

A short synopsis of the linked article. President Monson's regime announces the November policy. A couple of months later President Nelson, then the senior apostle, calls it a revelation. So which is it? A policy or a revelation.

Gaslighting at its finest.

Or that God is able to allow differing policy changes in differing times and seasons. Key word allow.

Agreed. My belief is that the Lord will allow us to do just about anything with our agency. This applies individually and collectively as a church. It scares me when we assert the Lord won't allow us to do something.

[EmmaLee]

We continue down a very slippery slope, pandering to the world.

Nah. We continue to be guided by Apostles and Prophets, who are led by the Lord, helping to bring Christ’s church into the 21’s century.

Seriously? This is just a reversal of a 4 year old policy change, not some divine revelation.

It was actually only 3 years ago - February 2016 - that the first "revelation" (Pres. Nelson's word) was given. We were already well into the 21st Century in 2016.

[EmmaLee]

This is all very fascinating! It's exciting to watch the scriptures and prophecy unfold and be fulfilled.

[mirkwood]

Mirk,

I don’t think lots of these folks want to leave and I don’t want them to, they just want to better understand and I think that is ok given the situation.

I disagree. I think there are many who just want to chuck rocks at the church.

[Sunain]

The previous policy/revelation (I don't even know anymore) of requiring children to wait till their adult was the fair and just method of a loving Heavenly Father. How many of these children will be baptized because their LGBT parents at least realize that baptism is required to enter gods kingdom but then fail to also realize that following his commandments is also necessary. I fear for these children under this new policy change as it will undoubtedly lead them to broken covenants as they are influenced directly by their parents and taught that homosexual behaviour is fine and normal.

This change literally comes as a result of pressure. I can see why people believe it's only a matter of time till the church reneges on the Family Proclamation and allows Gay Marriages. We're almost there. FamilySearch recognizes it the civil marriages now, we have a whole website dedicated to them, this change shows that change comes as a result of social pressures.

Sad times for the Lord's church when such changes are applied counter to the plan of salvation and His commandments.

[Jamescm]

I'm not concerned with whether or not children to two same-sex parents are able to be baptized or not. I'm concerned with this:
"remove the label of apostasy for homosexual behavior"

I may need the definition of "apostasy" cleared up for me. My understanding is that it is "willingly rebelling against, or willfully acting contrary to, the teachings of the church." Homosexual activity is apostate for the same reason all sexual perversion is. If homosexual behavior is not "apostate", then why are polygamy, pornography, affairs, or non-marital sex? If homosexual behavior is not "apostate", then what about a couple in a common law marriage?