Church to allow baptisms, blessings for children of LGBT parents

[Centerline]

Interesting, seems like a lack of trust and empathy for our leaders and their positions. I like the church and tend to see the good in it and give our leaders the benefit of the doubt. I don’t know any of them personally, and never will, but they appear to be intelligent, good men, who are dedicated to the gospel.

In times like this I ask myself, what would Jesus do? I never understood why he let himself be murdered like that. Condemned, tortured, and crucified all in the same day. No appeals process or anything. Led to the cross like a lamb to the slaughter. What a great teaching moment that would have been. If a host of angels came down from heaven to stop his murder. He could have told his killers and the people who let it happen that killing a person who is no threat to the life of another is murder. But nope, he let them do what they wanted to do. He even asked His Father to forgive them. I guess it all worked out for the best though. If He is alive, which I believe He is, then all things will be done in the wisdom of Him who knoweth all things.

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

I predict a hardline anti-homosexuality talk to make the point that this is not a reversal on homosexuality being a sin. Then, like last conference, the apostle who drew the short straw and had to talk about it will be maligned in the press for the next 6 months.

They really can't win on this issue.

You only lose if you play the game.

I predict a soft on homosexuality and a Chistlike acceptance talk AND a hardline anti-Gay exclusionary talk. This is how it works, pacify the old guard with the usual rhetoric, while carving out some contridictory ground to seek to appease the young families. Both sides point to what they see as supportive and ignore the contradictions. It's a train wreck.

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

Maybe the Q15 are in on the joke; maybe they're running the church into the ground on purpose so the members will be driven to rely on Christ.

This ^^^^^

[crabman]

D&C 56
4 Wherefore I, the Lord, command and revoke, as it seemeth me good

[captainfearnot]

And which question would that be? At one time for a very, very short time when I was first married there was such a question but it was quickly eliminated. Today you would have to read a great deal more into the questions that is there to get to the point of asking about private sexual practices within marriage. For the sake of clarity here are the questions the only one that might even remotely be interpreted to involve such would be number six and I have never heard it said that such was the case, it generally be considered to be speaking of abuse of a family member.

I believe drtanner is referring to 13. The temple covenants. A legal and lawful marriage is not a license for loud laughter or light mindedness in the bedroom.

[gkearney]

And which question would that be? At one time for a very, very short time when I was first married there was such a question but it was quickly eliminated. Today you would have to read a great deal more into the questions that is there to get to the point of asking about private sexual practices within marriage. For the sake of clarity here are the questions the only one that might even remotely be interpreted to involve such would be number six and I have never heard it said that such was the case, it generally be considered to be speaking of abuse of a family member.

I believe drtanner is referring to 13. The temple covenants. A legal and lawful marriage is not a license for loud laughter or light mindedness in the bedroom.

My that's, how bet to put it, a creative line of reasoning.

[simpleton]

A short synopsis of the linked article. President Monson's regime announces the November policy. A couple of months later President Nelson, then the senior apostle, calls it a revelation. So which is it? A policy or a revelation.

Gaslighting at its finest.

Oof.

Maybe oaf?

To quote the article from SLTrib in 2016:

"President Thomas S. Monson, considered a "prophet, seer and revelator" in the 15 million-member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, declared "the mind of the Lord and the will of the Lord."

That led to the Utah-based faith's new policy regarding same-sex Mormon couples — that they would be labeled "apostates" and that their children would not be allowed baptism and other LDS religious rites until they turn 18.

"Each of us during that sacred moment felt a spiritual confirmation," Nelson, next in line for the Mormon presidency, told the faith's young adults in the first official explanation of the hotly debated policy's origins. "It was our privilege as apostles to sustain what had been revealed to President Monson."

Nelson explained that revelation from the Lord to his servants is a sacred process.

"The [three-member] First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles counsel together and share all the Lord has directed us to understand and to feel, individually and collectively," he said. "And then, we watch the Lord move upon the president of the church to proclaim the Lord's will.""

To say that's confusing when juxtaposed with a completely opposite revelation three years later is putting it lightly.

What's next?

Been going on for many decades...

[cab]

Interesting, seems like a lack of trust and empathy for our leaders and their positions. I like the church and tend to see the good in it and give our leaders the benefit of the doubt. I don’t know any of them personally, and never will, but they appear to be intelligent, good men, who are dedicated to the gospel.

In times like this I ask myself, what would Jesus do? I never understood why he let himself be murdered like that. Condemned, tortured, and crucified all in the same day. No appeals process or anything. Led to the cross like a lamb to the slaughter. What a great teaching moment that would have been. If a host of angels came down from heaven to stop his murder. He could have told his killers and the people who let it happen that killing a person who is no threat to the life of another is murder. But nope, he let them do what they wanted to do. He even asked His Father to forgive them. I guess it all worked out for the best though. If He is alive, which I believe He is, then all things will be done in the wisdom of Him who knoweth all things.

As I recall, the only people Jesus was less than patient with were the religious leaders, and their traditions and precepts. We should always measure every man's doctrine against scripture. Especially those who have been set up as lights and leaders unto a people. No where in scripture are we admonished to trust any man, except Jesus Christ. I love the leaders, but I don't trust them implicitly or follow without questioning whether or not they are led by the Lord to the degree the rest of the church assumes they are.

[Jonesy]

Wow. So much conjecture and speculation here. That’s fine, I guess. Speculate away.

We can draw conclusions based on one truth: does he hold the keys?

If this is true, then he can be led by the Spirit for God’s purposes. And that purpose may or may not be know by many of us (which is obviously the case here). But the testimony that this man has the keys is of great value to us.

It’s crazy for me, who was once a near apostate, see stalwart members here question their own faith. I’ve been there! The keys are with the church.

Edit: In other words, it’s not necessarily about trusting the prophet. It’s about staying with the keys and see how God moves through them.

[Centerline]

Are our leaders the Pharisees and Sadducees of today?

The problem with scripture is whose interpretation is correct. I’ve attended many different churches and seen people interpret the scriptures in many different ways.

Are there any examples in the scriptures of God’s people trusting in their prophet?

[Love]

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. He discontinued polygamy due to persecution. Maybe God foresaw persecution over the LGBT . issue, and a change is necessary to further his work.

[cab]

Are our leaders the Pharisees and Sadducees of today?

The problem with scripture is whose interpretation is correct. I’ve attended many different churches and seen people interpret the scriptures in many different ways.

Are there any examples in the scriptures of God’s people trusting in their prophet?

Some quotes I enjoy about our duty to seek the Lord and trust no man implicitly "save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost" (2 Nephi 28:31).

"I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually." (Brigham Young, 1862)

"We have heard men who hold the Priesthood remark, that they would do any thing they were told to do by those who presided over them, if they knew it was wrong: but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself, should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly... When the Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience, as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong themselves, and wish to pave the way to accomplish that wrong; or else because they have done wrong, and wish to use the cloak of their authority to cover it with, lest it should be discovered by their superiors, who would require an atonement at their hands." (Priesthood, Millennial Satar, 1852).

"It makes no difference what is written or what anyone has said, if what has been said is in conflict with what the Lord has revealed, we can set it aside. My words, and the teachings of any other member of the Church, high or low, if they do not square with the revelations, we need not accept them. Let us have this matter clear. We have accepted the four standard works as the measuring yardsticks, or balances, by which we measure every man’s doctrine." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation)

"Some may say, "Brethren, you who lead the Church, we have all confidence in you, we are not in the least afraid but what everything will go right under your superintendence; all the business matters will be transacted right; and if brother Brigham is satisfied with it, I am." I do not wish any Latter-day Saint in this world, nor in heaven, to be satisfied with anything I do, unless the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, the spirit of revelation, makes them satisfied. I wish them to know for themselves and understand for themselves, for this would strengthen the faith that is within them. Suppose that the people were heedless, that they manifested no concern with regard to the things of the kingdom of God, but threw the whole burden upon the leaders of the people, saying, "If the brethren who take charge of matters are satisfied, we are," this is not pleasing in the sight of the Lord." (Brigham Young, 1855)

[Matchmaker]

The General Authorities have said we all make mistakes, even them. Could President Monson during his illness have made a mistake when he said the children of LGBT adults could not be baptized, and the Lord is correcting it now? I'm asking a serious question here. Can the Prophet ever make mistakes about revelation, or are they all infallible in that regard?

[dezNatDefender]

The General Authorities have said we all make mistakes, even them. Could President Monson during his illness have made a mistake when he said the children of LGBT adults could not be baptized, and the Lord is correcting it now? I'm asking a serious question here. Can the Prophet ever make mistakes about revelation, or are they all infallible in that regard?

Just remember in the Church, that only applies to past Church leaders, current leaders NEVER make mistakes.

Who knows maybe the next Church President will throw Pres. Nelson under the bus like he did Pres. Monson . . .who knows???

[Robin Hood]

The General Authorities have said we all make mistakes, even them. Could President Monson during his illness have made a mistake when he said the children of LGBT adults could not be baptized, and the Lord is correcting it now? I'm asking a serious question here. Can the Prophet ever make mistakes about revelation, or are they all infallible in that regard?

Would that mistake include President Nelson (president of the 12 at the time) describing the confirmation he felt from the Holy Ghost and declaring the policy a revelation?

[Chip]

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. He discontinued polygamy due to persecution. Maybe God foresaw persecution over the LGBT . issue, and a change is necessary to further his work.

I don't see how his work is going to be furthered by accommodating a group of people insistent on negating his most basic commandments and standards.

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

The General Authorities have said we all make mistakes, even them. Could President Monson during his illness have made a mistake when he said the children of LGBT adults could not be baptized, and the Lord is correcting it now? I'm asking a serious question here. Can the Prophet ever make mistakes about revelation, or are they all infallible in that regard?

Yes they can and do make mistakes. The difference between them and us though, is that they will never apologize or admit to making a mistake. They say they aren't perfect, yet they have never publicly apologized or acknowledged making a mistake. Thus, many members do view them as infallible, despite their admission of imperfection. This is why it is soooooo easy to be cynical and view them as deceptive. Saying, "We apologize we banned black people from our temples," or "the Nov 2015 policy was a mistake, we apologize for the pain and confusion it has caused, we are taking steps to correct it immediately", would shatter the implied perception of infallibility they seek to promote, but would dramatically increase their credibility with those who take them at their word that they are imperfect...

[Chip]

The General Authorities have said we all make mistakes, even them. Could President Monson during his illness have made a mistake when he said the children of LGBT adults could not be baptized, and the Lord is correcting it now? I'm asking a serious question here. Can the Prophet ever make mistakes about revelation, or are they all infallible in that regard?

Yes they can and do make mistakes. The difference between them and us though, is that they will never apologize or admit to making a mistake. They say they aren't perfect, yet they have never publicly apologized or acknowledged making a mistake. Thus, many members do view them as infallible, despite their admission of imperfection. This is why it is soooooo easy to be cynical and view them as deceptive. Saying, "We apologize we banned black people from our temples," or "the Nov 2015 policy was a mistake, we apologize for the pain and confusion it has caused, we are taking steps to correct it immediately", would shatter the implied perception of infallibility they seek to promote, but would dramatically increase their credibility with those who take them at their word that they are imperfect...

This is true. They'll certainly have us suppose that God is the one changing things around. It's not them that keep rearranging the deck chairs. It seems like God is putting man's folly on display, as if to encourage people to seek Jesus, instead.

[LDS Physician]

The Lord (and his prophet) can make a policy and then a few years later reverse that same policy even without *gasp* giving a reason for the reversal. When your foundation is built on the gospel of the Savior, things like this don't affect your testimony.

Trust. Faith. Both supported and confirmed by the Holy Ghost.

[EmmaLee]

Wow, what a great find! Very informative and revealing (no pun intended). Thanks for sharing this, Joel.

continuing revelation in action

[EmmaLee]

The General Authorities have said we all make mistakes, even them. Could President Monson during his illness have made a mistake when he said the children of LGBT adults could not be baptized, and the Lord is correcting it now? I'm asking a serious question here. Can the Prophet ever make mistakes about revelation, or are they all infallible in that regard?

Does this short video below (by then President of the Twelve Nelson) sound like it was a mistake? The First Presidency and all of the Twelve believed it was a revelation from God. The implications of the entire group of 15 getting, believing, and implementing false revelation is quite staggering, no?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0mLZp1HKhY

[EmmaLee]

These were too good, so I stole them from Joel's Funny Stuff thread -

M.png (1014.76 KiB) Viewed 622 times

[Col. Flagg]

The Lord (and his prophet) can make a policy and then a few years later reverse that same policy even without *gasp* giving a reason for the reversal. When your foundation is built on the gospel of the Savior, things like this don't affect your testimony.

Trust. Faith. Both supported and confirmed by the Holy Ghost.

Really?

[LDS Physician]

The Lord (and his prophet) can make a policy and then a few years later reverse that same policy even without *gasp* giving a reason for the reversal. When your foundation is built on the gospel of the Savior, things like this don't affect your testimony.

Trust. Faith. Both supported and confirmed by the Holy Ghost.

Really?

Nah. I was totally joking.

/sarcasm off

[EmmaLee]

“The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance. Do not be deceived; behind that facade is heartache, unhappiness and pain... YOU be the one to make a stand for right, even if you stand alone. Have the moral courage to be a light for others to follow.”
- President Thomas S. Monson