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Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am
by topcat
Jesus actually gave this little-known, completely neglected commandment found in the Book of Mormon:
3 Nephi 18:25

25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
Christ commands those who have "felt" Him and "seen" Him, to go testify to the world that this is a COMMANDMENT!! Not a simple suggestion, but something we should actively be pursuing. We are to "come unto Him", to the intimate point where we thrust our hands into his side to feel the wound in his side, and to feel the prints of the nails in His hands and in His feet, "that ye may know that I am the God of Israel," as He said.

Whoso does not keep this commandment (and certainly those who OPPOSE it), "suffers themselves to be led into temptation" of the evil one.

I didn't say it, Jesus Christ did.

This year, I taught this verse/ the commandment to literally come unto Christ to feel and see Him, to a full chapel of LDS in the second period. Nobody had even heard or could recognize this commandment. I know because I asked. "By a show of hands, who's heard of this commandment?" Not a hand was raised!

This commandment of Jesus Christ is TOTALLY ignored in the Church. It is omitted from the leadership's preaching and quite literally blacked out in the Church's publications (save the BoM). Yes, it still exists in the BoM.

We should ask ourselves WHY. Why would the leaders ignore this commandment? Is it not important?

On a scale of 1-10, where would you rank the importance of this commandment, with a 1 being not so important and 10 being REAL important?

I'd say it's a "10". And yet, virtually nobody knows about it. Could it be that the manual writers and leadership aren't aware of it? That they've innocently skipped over it? And if they have read it, why no stage time given to it? It must be unimportant, right?

But the verse is written to eliminate that as a possible conclusion.

The chilling point, the thing that should give us pause, that should cause us to "fear and tremble", if you will, is that the ignoring of this commandment, and certainly any opposition to this commandment, results in the person not trying to keep that commandment being subject to the power of the devil. That of course would include deception. And if we are deceived, but believe we are not deceived, then what an awful state we are in!

We might be benefited by remembering that vanity and unbelief got the Church condemned way back in 1832 (DC 84) because they didn't take seriously the BoM, specifically by failing to DO what the book taught.

Please ponder this commandment of Jesus Christ and His warning. If what He is saying is true, then there is a very serious consequence for not at least trying to keep the commandment. How do we refer to this commandment clearly expressed in 3 Nephi 18:25? It's nothing less than the Second Comforter!

What a shame it is to have this doctrine be controversial in the Church today, and borderline heretical! How dare leaders or ANY faithful Mormon oppose, ridicule, or diminish the doctrine of the Second Comforter! Christ said this is a commandment, and to discourage those who would mock this commandment, He declared such a person would be under the power of the devil!

In the lesson I taught recently, I read the last few verses of 3 Nephi 15 and first few verses of chapter 16 which clearly define Christ's numbered sheep as people who hear His voice and see Him. There's no lack of clarity. 2500 people had just heard Him, seen Him, and FELT Him, as commanded. There can be no misunderstanding what the verses verdict is on the definition of His "sheep." And yet, four people in a row raised their hands to state, "WE are His sheep. All of us are His sheep." Despite reading the exact opposite of what they said seconds earlier, these good Mormons couldn't separate themselves from their unbelief.

I challenged them all, as tactfully and lovingly as I could, to go back and read how the verses defined His "sheep". I asked them to put their personal interpretation on the shelf, and let the Scriptures speak for themselves.

This was awkward.

So we went back and read the verses, and I declared there was and is no doubt what the verses actually say. Christ says His sheep are those who hear His voice and see Him. I challenged them to set their hearts on that destination. Yes, it's a process, it's a journey. There is a path, and that path is the Gospel, but there is a destination and reaching that destination (of hearing Him and seeing Him) qualifies us to become His sheep. So said Jesus. Not me.

And yet, will there be some people here who choose to rail against Christ's teachings? Probably. And why would believers oppose the truth? Because they can. They are free to do so. That's the great thing about our time here. We can choose the vanity and unbelief of "I hear His voice and "see" Him. I am His sheep," which causes us to not even have the goal He's set for us, with the consequence of being led into temptation.

Gosh, I tell ya, the BoM sure has some interesting doctrine in its pages!

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 9:30 am
by drtanner
Elder Bednar in conference:
Do we only know about the Savior, or are we increasingly coming to know Him? How do we come to know the Lord?

I am acquainted with Church members who accept as true the doctrine and principles contained in the scriptures and proclaimed from this pulpit. And yet they have a hard time believing those gospel truths apply specifically in their lives and to their circumstances. They seem to have faith in the Savior, but they do not believe His promised blessings are available to them or can operate in their lives. I also encounter brothers and sisters who fulfill their callings dutifully but for whom the restored gospel has not yet become a living and transforming reality in their lives. We come to know the Lord as we not only believe in Him but also believe Him and His assurances.

We believe and come to know the Lord as the key of the knowledge of God administered through the Melchizedek Priesthood unlocks the door and makes it possible for each of us to receive the power of godliness in our lives. We believe and come to know the Savior as we follow Him by receiving and faithfully honoring holy ordinances and increasingly have His image in our countenances. We believe and come to know Christ as we experience personally the transforming, healing, strengthening, and sanctifying power of His Atonement. We believe and come to know the Master as “the power of his word takes root in us” and is written in our minds and hearts and as we “give away all our sins to know Him.”

Believing Him is trusting that His bounteous blessings are available and applicable in our individual lives and families. Believing Him with our whole soul comes as we press forward along the covenant pathway, surrender our will to His, and submit to His priorities and timing for us. Believing Him—accepting as true His power and promises—invites perspective, peace, and joy into our lives.

On a future day, “every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess” that Jesus is the Christ. On that blessed day, we will know He knows each of us by name. And I witness and promise we can not only know about the Lord but also come to know Him as we exercise faith in, follow, serve, and believe Him. I so testify in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, amen.


For those who have eyes to see and ears to hear and have not already made up their mind about what the leaders are teaching they will see that they want us to experiences the fullness of the blessings found in the scriptures culminating with KNOWING Christ. This talk is but one of many many examples.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 11:48 am
by topcat
drtanner wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 9:30 am Elder Bednar in conference:
Do we only know about the Savior, or are we increasingly coming to know Him? How do we come to know the Lord?

I am acquainted with Church members who accept as true the doctrine and principles contained in the scriptures and proclaimed from this pulpit. And yet they have a hard time believing those gospel truths apply specifically in their lives and to their circumstances. They seem to have faith in the Savior, but they do not believe His promised blessings are available to them or can operate in their lives. I also encounter brothers and sisters who fulfill their callings dutifully but for whom the restored gospel has not yet become a living and transforming reality in their lives. We come to know the Lord as we not only believe in Him but also believe Him and His assurances.

We believe and come to know the Lord as the key of the knowledge of God administered through the Melchizedek Priesthood unlocks the door and makes it possible for each of us to receive the power of godliness in our lives. We believe and come to know the Savior as we follow Him by receiving and faithfully honoring holy ordinances and increasingly have His image in our countenances. We believe and come to know Christ as we experience personally the transforming, healing, strengthening, and sanctifying power of His Atonement. We believe and come to know the Master as “the power of his word takes root in us” and is written in our minds and hearts and as we “give away all our sins to know Him.”

Believing Him is trusting that His bounteous blessings are available and applicable in our individual lives and families. Believing Him with our whole soul comes as we press forward along the covenant pathway, surrender our will to His, and submit to His priorities and timing for us. Believing Him—accepting as true His power and promises—invites perspective, peace, and joy into our lives.

On a future day, “every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess” that Jesus is the Christ. On that blessed day, we will know He knows each of us by name. And I witness and promise we can not only know about the Lord but also come to know Him as we exercise faith in, follow, serve, and believe Him. I so testify in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, amen.


For those who have eyes to see and ears to hear and have not already made up their mind about what the leaders are teaching they will see that they want us to experiences the fullness of the blessings found in the scriptures culminating with KNOWING Christ. This talk is but one of many many examples.

You quoted Elder Bednar as a rebuttal to the fact that the commandment in 3 Nephi 18:25 is NEVER taught by the leadership/the Church?

Where in Elder Bednar's talk does it teach the command to come into Christ's presence and feel and touch His wounds?

What I do see is an attempt to completely water down the true meaning of "know Christ". What I also see is a complete avoidance of the teaching of the Second Comforter. And I see a 100% omission of an eyewitness testimony. Which should not be omitted if he actually has such a testimony, and should be omitted if he has not seen Christ.

The word KNOW has a very special meaning, as you I believe are aware.

Does Elder Bednar understand the meaning?

Let's take a look at how he frames the meaning from your quote:
We believe and come to know the Lord as the key of the knowledge of God administered through the Melchizedek Priesthood unlocks the door and makes it possible for each of us to receive the power of godliness in our lives.
Contrast that with how the Lord defines it, as "coming unto him" literally and seeing him and feeling him, meaning the wound in his side and the wounds in his hands and in his feet. 3 N 18:25.
We believe and come to know the Savior as we follow Him by receiving and faithfully honoring holy ordinances and increasingly have His image in our countenances.
Contrast that with how the Lord defines it, as "coming unto him" literally and seeing him and feeling him, meaning the wound in his side and the wounds in his hands and in his feet. 3 N 18:25.
We believe and come to know Christ as we experience personally the transforming, healing, strengthening, and sanctifying power of His Atonement.
Contrast that with how the Lord defines it, as "coming unto him" literally and seeing him and feeling him, meaning the wound in his side and the wounds in his hands and in his feet. 3 N 18:25.


We believe and come to know the Master as “the power of his word takes root in us” and is written in our minds and hearts and as we “give away all our sins to know Him.”

Yes there is a journey and that journey is a process. But there is a destination.

And getting to that destination, as I have pointed out in 3rd Nephi 18 verse 25, is a commandment.

The point of this post is just too point out that this is not hot by the leaders of the church. However, it is taught by Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon.

And I'm asking the very appropriate question of, Why is it not taught?

Your bringing up of Elder Bednar's talk offers zero rebuttal and actually illustrates the very thing I'm talking about.

Nowhere does he claim to be an eyewitness or share any type of eyewitness testimony! And nowhere does he even teach the commandment that we should come unto Christ and see and feel Him.

You say there are tons of talks out there. Please quote one.

All I see in this talk that you quote is a man trying to give the impression that he is a special witness, when in fact he is not because he bears no such testimony. I'm sure he's a nice man. I hope he's a nice man. But if we are honest with ourselves and with our fellow members in the church, we must confess this man is not an eyewitness, nor does he encourage us to be an eyewitness and to literally see and feel Jesus, as Jesus commands us to do in 3 Nephi 18:25.

Please admit this.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 12:36 pm
by MMbelieve
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 11:48 am

Does Elder Bednar understand the meaning?

Elder Bednar knows and understands far more than you realize.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 12:39 pm
by Cheetos
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am Jesus actually gave this little-known, completely neglected commandment found in the Book of Mormon:
3 Nephi 18:25

25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
Christ commands those who have "felt" Him and "seen" Him, to go testify to the world that this is a COMMANDMENT!! Not a simple suggestion, but something we should actively be pursuing. We are to "come unto Him", to the intimate point where we thrust our hands into his side to feel the wound in his side, and to feel the prints of the nails in His hands and in His feet, "that ye may know that I am the God of Israel," as He said.

Whoso does not keep this commandment (and certainly those who OPPOSE it), "suffers themselves to be led into temptation" of the evil one.

I didn't say it, Jesus Christ did.

This year, I taught this verse/ the commandment to literally come unto Christ to feel and see Him, to a full chapel of LDS in the second period. Nobody had even heard or could recognize this commandment. I know because I asked. "By a show of hands, who's heard of this commandment?" Not a hand was raised!

This commandment of Jesus Christ is TOTALLY ignored in the Church. It is omitted from the leadership's preaching and quite literally blacked out in the Church's publications (save the BoM). Yes, it still exists in the BoM.

We should ask ourselves WHY. Why would the leaders ignore this commandment? Is it not important?

On a scale of 1-10, where would you rank the importance of this commandment, with a 1 being not so important and 10 being REAL important?

I'd say it's a "10". And yet, virtually nobody knows about it. Could it be that the manual writers and leadership aren't aware of it? That they've innocently skipped over it? And if they have read it, why no stage time given to it? It must be unimportant, right?

But the verse is written to eliminate that as a possible conclusion.

The chilling point, the thing that should give us pause, that should cause us to "fear and tremble", if you will, is that the ignoring of this commandment, and certainly any opposition to this commandment, results in the person not trying to keep that commandment being subject to the power of the devil. That of course would include deception. And if we are deceived, but believe we are not deceived, then what an awful state we are in!

We might be benefited by remembering that vanity and unbelief got the Church condemned way back in 1832 (DC 84) because they didn't take seriously the BoM, specifically by failing to DO what the book taught.

Please ponder this commandment of Jesus Christ and His warning. If what He is saying is true, then there is a very serious consequence for not at least trying to keep the commandment. How do we refer to this commandment clearly expressed in 3 Nephi 18:25? It's nothing less than the Second Comforter!

What a shame it is to have this doctrine be controversial in the Church today, and borderline heretical! How dare leaders or ANY faithful Mormon oppose, ridicule, or diminish the doctrine of the Second Comforter! Christ said this is a commandment, and to discourage those who would mock this commandment, He declared such a person would be under the power of the devil!

In the lesson I taught recently, I read the last few verses of 3 Nephi 15 and first few verses of chapter 16 which clearly define Christ's numbered sheep as people who hear His voice and see Him. There's no lack of clarity. 2500 people had just heard Him, seen Him, and FELT Him, as commanded. There can be no misunderstanding what the verses verdict is on the definition of His "sheep." And yet, four people in a row raised their hands to state, "WE are His sheep. All of us are His sheep." Despite reading the exact opposite of what they said seconds earlier, these good Mormons couldn't separate themselves from their unbelief.

I challenged them all, as tactfully and lovingly as I could, to go back and read how the verses defined His "sheep". I asked them to put their personal interpretation on the shelf, and let the Scriptures speak for themselves.

This was awkward.

So we went back and read the verses, and I declared there was and is no doubt what the verses actually say. Christ says His sheep are those who hear His voice and see Him. I challenged them to set their hearts on that destination. Yes, it's a process, it's a journey. There is a path, and that path is the Gospel, but there is a destination and reaching that destination (of hearing Him and seeing Him) qualifies us to become His sheep. So said Jesus. Not me.

And yet, will there be some people here who choose to rail against Christ's teachings? Probably. And why would believers oppose the truth? Because they can. They are free to do so. That's the great thing about our time here. We can choose the vanity and unbelief of "I hear His voice and "see" Him. I am His sheep," which causes us to not even have the goal He's set for us, with the consequence of being led into temptation.

Gosh, I tell ya, the BoM sure has some interesting doctrine in its pages!
Read in context, the scripture cited is the commandment to come unto Christ ourselves and for us to extend that command to all others that we may come to know Christ. It wasnt literally meant for each one of us to come and thrust our hand in his side and see him physically while in the flesh of our mortal lives.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 12:55 pm
by inho
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 11:48 am You quoted Elder Bednar as a rebuttal to the fact that the commandment in 3 Nephi 18:25 is NEVER taught by the leadership/the Church?
Never?
Elder Gonzalez started his talk in Oct 2012 by quoting part of the verse. Also in Oct 2012, Sister Reeves quoted the whole verse.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 12:57 pm
by MMbelieve
Cheetos wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 12:39 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am Jesus actually gave this little-known, completely neglected commandment found in the Book of Mormon:
3 Nephi 18:25

25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
Christ commands those who have "felt" Him and "seen" Him, to go testify to the world that this is a COMMANDMENT!! Not a simple suggestion, but something we should actively be pursuing. We are to "come unto Him", to the intimate point where we thrust our hands into his side to feel the wound in his side, and to feel the prints of the nails in His hands and in His feet, "that ye may know that I am the God of Israel," as He said.

Whoso does not keep this commandment (and certainly those who OPPOSE it), "suffers themselves to be led into temptation" of the evil one.

I didn't say it, Jesus Christ did.

This year, I taught this verse/ the commandment to literally come unto Christ to feel and see Him, to a full chapel of LDS in the second period. Nobody had even heard or could recognize this commandment. I know because I asked. "By a show of hands, who's heard of this commandment?" Not a hand was raised!

This commandment of Jesus Christ is TOTALLY ignored in the Church. It is omitted from the leadership's preaching and quite literally blacked out in the Church's publications (save the BoM). Yes, it still exists in the BoM.

We should ask ourselves WHY. Why would the leaders ignore this commandment? Is it not important?

On a scale of 1-10, where would you rank the importance of this commandment, with a 1 being not so important and 10 being REAL important?

I'd say it's a "10". And yet, virtually nobody knows about it. Could it be that the manual writers and leadership aren't aware of it? That they've innocently skipped over it? And if they have read it, why no stage time given to it? It must be unimportant, right?

But the verse is written to eliminate that as a possible conclusion.

The chilling point, the thing that should give us pause, that should cause us to "fear and tremble", if you will, is that the ignoring of this commandment, and certainly any opposition to this commandment, results in the person not trying to keep that commandment being subject to the power of the devil. That of course would include deception. And if we are deceived, but believe we are not deceived, then what an awful state we are in!

We might be benefited by remembering that vanity and unbelief got the Church condemned way back in 1832 (DC 84) because they didn't take seriously the BoM, specifically by failing to DO what the book taught.

Please ponder this commandment of Jesus Christ and His warning. If what He is saying is true, then there is a very serious consequence for not at least trying to keep the commandment. How do we refer to this commandment clearly expressed in 3 Nephi 18:25? It's nothing less than the Second Comforter!

What a shame it is to have this doctrine be controversial in the Church today, and borderline heretical! How dare leaders or ANY faithful Mormon oppose, ridicule, or diminish the doctrine of the Second Comforter! Christ said this is a commandment, and to discourage those who would mock this commandment, He declared such a person would be under the power of the devil!

In the lesson I taught recently, I read the last few verses of 3 Nephi 15 and first few verses of chapter 16 which clearly define Christ's numbered sheep as people who hear His voice and see Him. There's no lack of clarity. 2500 people had just heard Him, seen Him, and FELT Him, as commanded. There can be no misunderstanding what the verses verdict is on the definition of His "sheep." And yet, four people in a row raised their hands to state, "WE are His sheep. All of us are His sheep." Despite reading the exact opposite of what they said seconds earlier, these good Mormons couldn't separate themselves from their unbelief.

I challenged them all, as tactfully and lovingly as I could, to go back and read how the verses defined His "sheep". I asked them to put their personal interpretation on the shelf, and let the Scriptures speak for themselves.

This was awkward.

So we went back and read the verses, and I declared there was and is no doubt what the verses actually say. Christ says His sheep are those who hear His voice and see Him. I challenged them to set their hearts on that destination. Yes, it's a process, it's a journey. There is a path, and that path is the Gospel, but there is a destination and reaching that destination (of hearing Him and seeing Him) qualifies us to become His sheep. So said Jesus. Not me.

And yet, will there be some people here who choose to rail against Christ's teachings? Probably. And why would believers oppose the truth? Because they can. They are free to do so. That's the great thing about our time here. We can choose the vanity and unbelief of "I hear His voice and "see" Him. I am His sheep," which causes us to not even have the goal He's set for us, with the consequence of being led into temptation.

Gosh, I tell ya, the BoM sure has some interesting doctrine in its pages!
Read in context, the scripture cited is the commandment to come unto Christ ourselves and for us to extend that command to all others that we may come to know Christ. It wasnt literally meant for each one of us to come and thrust our hand in his side and see him physically while in the flesh of our mortal lives.
Your exactly right, to say we need to all feel his wounds to believe is not correct or appropriate and we honestly have no right to expect him to come show us his wounds just so we can believe.

When he tells the apostle that his faith is there because he has seen and felt the wounds and thus knows, but how much better is it to those who believe but didnt see? This is what its all about. He wants us to believe without seeing him personally to prove to us who he is.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:04 pm
by topcat
MMbelieve wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 12:57 pm
Cheetos wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 12:39 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am Jesus actually gave this little-known, completely neglected commandment found in the Book of Mormon:
3 Nephi 18:25

25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
Christ commands those who have "felt" Him and "seen" Him, to go testify to the world that this is a COMMANDMENT!! Not a simple suggestion, but something we should actively be pursuing. We are to "come unto Him", to the intimate point where we thrust our hands into his side to feel the wound in his side, and to feel the prints of the nails in His hands and in His feet, "that ye may know that I am the God of Israel," as He said.

Whoso does not keep this commandment (and certainly those who OPPOSE it), "suffers themselves to be led into temptation" of the evil one.

I didn't say it, Jesus Christ did.

This year, I taught this verse/ the commandment to literally come unto Christ to feel and see Him, to a full chapel of LDS in the second period. Nobody had even heard or could recognize this commandment. I know because I asked. "By a show of hands, who's heard of this commandment?" Not a hand was raised!

This commandment of Jesus Christ is TOTALLY ignored in the Church. It is omitted from the leadership's preaching and quite literally blacked out in the Church's publications (save the BoM). Yes, it still exists in the BoM.

We should ask ourselves WHY. Why would the leaders ignore this commandment? Is it not important?

On a scale of 1-10, where would you rank the importance of this commandment, with a 1 being not so important and 10 being REAL important?

I'd say it's a "10". And yet, virtually nobody knows about it. Could it be that the manual writers and leadership aren't aware of it? That they've innocently skipped over it? And if they have read it, why no stage time given to it? It must be unimportant, right?

But the verse is written to eliminate that as a possible conclusion.

The chilling point, the thing that should give us pause, that should cause us to "fear and tremble", if you will, is that the ignoring of this commandment, and certainly any opposition to this commandment, results in the person not trying to keep that commandment being subject to the power of the devil. That of course would include deception. And if we are deceived, but believe we are not deceived, then what an awful state we are in!

We might be benefited by remembering that vanity and unbelief got the Church condemned way back in 1832 (DC 84) because they didn't take seriously the BoM, specifically by failing to DO what the book taught.

Please ponder this commandment of Jesus Christ and His warning. If what He is saying is true, then there is a very serious consequence for not at least trying to keep the commandment. How do we refer to this commandment clearly expressed in 3 Nephi 18:25? It's nothing less than the Second Comforter!

What a shame it is to have this doctrine be controversial in the Church today, and borderline heretical! How dare leaders or ANY faithful Mormon oppose, ridicule, or diminish the doctrine of the Second Comforter! Christ said this is a commandment, and to discourage those who would mock this commandment, He declared such a person would be under the power of the devil!

In the lesson I taught recently, I read the last few verses of 3 Nephi 15 and first few verses of chapter 16 which clearly define Christ's numbered sheep as people who hear His voice and see Him. There's no lack of clarity. 2500 people had just heard Him, seen Him, and FELT Him, as commanded. There can be no misunderstanding what the verses verdict is on the definition of His "sheep." And yet, four people in a row raised their hands to state, "WE are His sheep. All of us are His sheep." Despite reading the exact opposite of what they said seconds earlier, these good Mormons couldn't separate themselves from their unbelief.

I challenged them all, as tactfully and lovingly as I could, to go back and read how the verses defined His "sheep". I asked them to put their personal interpretation on the shelf, and let the Scriptures speak for themselves.

This was awkward.

So we went back and read the verses, and I declared there was and is no doubt what the verses actually say. Christ says His sheep are those who hear His voice and see Him. I challenged them to set their hearts on that destination. Yes, it's a process, it's a journey. There is a path, and that path is the Gospel, but there is a destination and reaching that destination (of hearing Him and seeing Him) qualifies us to become His sheep. So said Jesus. Not me.

And yet, will there be some people here who choose to rail against Christ's teachings? Probably. And why would believers oppose the truth? Because they can. They are free to do so. That's the great thing about our time here. We can choose the vanity and unbelief of "I hear His voice and "see" Him. I am His sheep," which causes us to not even have the goal He's set for us, with the consequence of being led into temptation.

Gosh, I tell ya, the BoM sure has some interesting doctrine in its pages!
Read in context, the scripture cited is the commandment to come unto Christ ourselves and for us to extend that command to all others that we may come to know Christ. It wasnt literally meant for each one of us to come and thrust our hand in his side and see him physically while in the flesh of our mortal lives.
Your exactly right, to say we need to all feel his wounds to believe is not correct or appropriate and we honestly have no right to expect him to come show us his wounds just so we can believe.

When he tells the apostle that his faith is there because he has seen and felt the wounds and thus knows, but how much better is it to those who believe but didnt see? This is what its all about. He wants us to believe without seeing him personally to prove to us who he is.
Of course, there is the journey to the Savior. That's a long process.

The point is to have the goal -- "eternal life" -- in mind. Without the goal, how could you ever arrive?

To make progress we have the principles of Alma 32 to guide us and the Sermon on the Mount, etc. We must become like Jesus. That's what happens as we keep His commandments.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:05 pm
by topcat
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 12:55 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 11:48 am You quoted Elder Bednar as a rebuttal to the fact that the commandment in 3 Nephi 18:25 is NEVER taught by the leadership/the Church?
Never?
Elder Gonzalez started his talk in Oct 2012 by quoting part of the verse. Also in Oct 2012, Sister Reeves quoted the whole verse.
Is the principle of the Second Comforter taught in those talks? Will you indulge the readers and give the context, or do you already know the context doesn't apply to the verse?

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:11 pm
by inho
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:05 pm
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 12:55 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 11:48 am You quoted Elder Bednar as a rebuttal to the fact that the commandment in 3 Nephi 18:25 is NEVER taught by the leadership/the Church?
Never?
Elder Gonzalez started his talk in Oct 2012 by quoting part of the verse. Also in Oct 2012, Sister Reeves quoted the whole verse.
Is the principle of the Second Comforter taught in those talks? Will you indulge the readers and give the context, or do you already know the context doesn't apply to the verse?
Go and read the talks if you are interested.
Also, the way you read the verse might not be the way others read it.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:13 pm
by topcat
Cheetos wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 12:39 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am Jesus actually gave this little-known, completely neglected commandment found in the Book of Mormon:
3 Nephi 18:25

25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
Christ commands those who have "felt" Him and "seen" Him, to go testify to the world that this is a COMMANDMENT!! Not a simple suggestion, but something we should actively be pursuing. We are to "come unto Him", to the intimate point where we thrust our hands into his side to feel the wound in his side, and to feel the prints of the nails in His hands and in His feet, "that ye may know that I am the God of Israel," as He said.

Whoso does not keep this commandment (and certainly those who OPPOSE it), "suffers themselves to be led into temptation" of the evil one.

I didn't say it, Jesus Christ did.

This year, I taught this verse/ the commandment to literally come unto Christ to feel and see Him, to a full chapel of LDS in the second period. Nobody had even heard or could recognize this commandment. I know because I asked. "By a show of hands, who's heard of this commandment?" Not a hand was raised!

This commandment of Jesus Christ is TOTALLY ignored in the Church. It is omitted from the leadership's preaching and quite literally blacked out in the Church's publications (save the BoM). Yes, it still exists in the BoM.

We should ask ourselves WHY. Why would the leaders ignore this commandment? Is it not important?

On a scale of 1-10, where would you rank the importance of this commandment, with a 1 being not so important and 10 being REAL important?

I'd say it's a "10". And yet, virtually nobody knows about it. Could it be that the manual writers and leadership aren't aware of it? That they've innocently skipped over it? And if they have read it, why no stage time given to it? It must be unimportant, right?

But the verse is written to eliminate that as a possible conclusion.

The chilling point, the thing that should give us pause, that should cause us to "fear and tremble", if you will, is that the ignoring of this commandment, and certainly any opposition to this commandment, results in the person not trying to keep that commandment being subject to the power of the devil. That of course would include deception. And if we are deceived, but believe we are not deceived, then what an awful state we are in!

We might be benefited by remembering that vanity and unbelief got the Church condemned way back in 1832 (DC 84) because they didn't take seriously the BoM, specifically by failing to DO what the book taught.

Please ponder this commandment of Jesus Christ and His warning. If what He is saying is true, then there is a very serious consequence for not at least trying to keep the commandment. How do we refer to this commandment clearly expressed in 3 Nephi 18:25? It's nothing less than the Second Comforter!

What a shame it is to have this doctrine be controversial in the Church today, and borderline heretical! How dare leaders or ANY faithful Mormon oppose, ridicule, or diminish the doctrine of the Second Comforter! Christ said this is a commandment, and to discourage those who would mock this commandment, He declared such a person would be under the power of the devil!

In the lesson I taught recently, I read the last few verses of 3 Nephi 15 and first few verses of chapter 16 which clearly define Christ's numbered sheep as people who hear His voice and see Him. There's no lack of clarity. 2500 people had just heard Him, seen Him, and FELT Him, as commanded. There can be no misunderstanding what the verses verdict is on the definition of His "sheep." And yet, four people in a row raised their hands to state, "WE are His sheep. All of us are His sheep." Despite reading the exact opposite of what they said seconds earlier, these good Mormons couldn't separate themselves from their unbelief.

I challenged them all, as tactfully and lovingly as I could, to go back and read how the verses defined His "sheep". I asked them to put their personal interpretation on the shelf, and let the Scriptures speak for themselves.

This was awkward.

So we went back and read the verses, and I declared there was and is no doubt what the verses actually say. Christ says His sheep are those who hear His voice and see Him. I challenged them to set their hearts on that destination. Yes, it's a process, it's a journey. There is a path, and that path is the Gospel, but there is a destination and reaching that destination (of hearing Him and seeing Him) qualifies us to become His sheep. So said Jesus. Not me.

And yet, will there be some people here who choose to rail against Christ's teachings? Probably. And why would believers oppose the truth? Because they can. They are free to do so. That's the great thing about our time here. We can choose the vanity and unbelief of "I hear His voice and "see" Him. I am His sheep," which causes us to not even have the goal He's set for us, with the consequence of being led into temptation.

Gosh, I tell ya, the BoM sure has some interesting doctrine in its pages!
Read in context, the scripture cited is the commandment to come unto Christ ourselves and for us to extend that command to all others that we may come to know Christ. It wasnt literally meant for each one of us to come and thrust our hand in his side and see him physically while in the flesh of our mortal lives.
The context is exactly what you say it isn't.

He was speaking to the 2500 who touched him. THAT is all the context you need. Not to mention, in this chapter He institutes the sacrament, where bread is broken and EVERYBODY "touches" / feels the bread, the symbol of His body.

Yes, please read in context. Your interpretation of not applying to us is completely opposite to what is written.

It's too bad that people here want to argue against being brought into Christ's presence.

People would rather argue against that true END GOAL or PURPOSE of our very lives than admit the Church doesn't teach this.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:17 pm
by topcat
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:11 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:05 pm
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 12:55 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 11:48 am You quoted Elder Bednar as a rebuttal to the fact that the commandment in 3 Nephi 18:25 is NEVER taught by the leadership/the Church?
Never?
Elder Gonzalez started his talk in Oct 2012 by quoting part of the verse. Also in Oct 2012, Sister Reeves quoted the whole verse.
Is the principle of the Second Comforter taught in those talks? Will you indulge the readers and give the context, or do you already know the context doesn't apply to the verse?
Go and read the talks if you are interested.
Also, the way you read the verse might not be the way others read it.
No offense, but if you're going to bring up those talks without supporting your supposed rebuttal, then why do it? Kind of sloppy and misleading? I can almost guarantee those two talks do not support your supposed rebuttal. Your unwillingness to quote them is evidence of that.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:23 pm
by inho
To understand the context of the verse, one should start from verse 22:
22 And behold, ye shall meet together oft; and ye shall not forbid any man from coming unto you when ye shall meet together, but suffer them that they may come unto you and forbid them not;
23 But ye shall pray for them, and shall not cast them out; and if it so be that they come unto you oft ye shall pray for them unto the Father, in my name.
24 Therefore, hold up your light that it may shine unto the world. Behold I am the light which ye shall hold up—that which ye have seen me do. Behold ye see that I have prayed unto the Father, and ye all have witnessed.
25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
So what is that we are commanded to do unto the world?

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:30 pm
by MMbelieve
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:17 pm
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:11 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:05 pm
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 12:55 pm

Never?
Elder Gonzalez started his talk in Oct 2012 by quoting part of the verse. Also in Oct 2012, Sister Reeves quoted the whole verse.
Is the principle of the Second Comforter taught in those talks? Will you indulge the readers and give the context, or do you already know the context doesn't apply to the verse?
Go and read the talks if you are interested.
Also, the way you read the verse might not be the way others read it.
No offense, but if you're going to bring up those talks without supporting your supposed rebuttal, then why do it? Kind of sloppy and misleading? I can almost guarantee those two talks do not support your supposed rebuttal. Your unwillingness to quote them is evidence of that.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... u?lang=eng

“I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world.”15

That is our charge. We must feel and see for ourselves and then help all of Heavenly Father’s children to feel and see and know that our Savior has taken upon Himself not only all our sins but also our pains and our suffering and afflictions so that He can know what we feel and how to comfort us. I testify of Him in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.”
15- 3 Nephi 18:25; emphasis added.

The Lord Has Not Forgotten You
By Linda S. Reeves
Second Counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency

I took the time to look up this talk and the scripture is indeed used and referenced.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:30 pm
by topcat
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:23 pm To understand the context of the verse, one should start from verse 22:
22 And behold, ye shall meet together oft; and ye shall not forbid any man from coming unto you when ye shall meet together, but suffer them that they may come unto you and forbid them not;
23 But ye shall pray for them, and shall not cast them out; and if it so be that they come unto you oft ye shall pray for them unto the Father, in my name.
24 Therefore, hold up your light that it may shine unto the world. Behold I am the light which ye shall hold up—that which ye have seen me do. Behold ye see that I have prayed unto the Father, and ye all have witnessed.
25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
So what is that we are commanded to do unto the world?
It's plain to me. You can choose to argue that Christ is not saying what He's saying. It's your choice. You argue against the Second Comforter. That's the camp you choose to be in. Apparently. To each his own.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:31 pm
by topcat
MMbelieve wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:30 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:17 pm
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:11 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:05 pm

Is the principle of the Second Comforter taught in those talks? Will you indulge the readers and give the context, or do you already know the context doesn't apply to the verse?
Go and read the talks if you are interested.
Also, the way you read the verse might not be the way others read it.
No offense, but if you're going to bring up those talks without supporting your supposed rebuttal, then why do it? Kind of sloppy and misleading? I can almost guarantee those two talks do not support your supposed rebuttal. Your unwillingness to quote them is evidence of that.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... u?lang=eng

“I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world.”15

That is our charge. We must feel and see for ourselves and then help all of Heavenly Father’s children to feel and see and know that our Savior has taken upon Himself not only all our sins but also our pains and our suffering and afflictions so that He can know what we feel and how to comfort us. I testify of Him in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.”
15- 3 Nephi 18:25; emphasis added.

The Lord Has Not Forgotten You
By Linda S. Reeves
Second Counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency

I took the time to look up this talk and the scripture is indeed used and referenced.
Thanks for quoting it.

Quite obviously, and as predicted, she is speaking metaphorically!

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:33 pm
by inho
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:30 pm
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:23 pm To understand the context of the verse, one should start from verse 22:
22 And behold, ye shall meet together oft; and ye shall not forbid any man from coming unto you when ye shall meet together, but suffer them that they may come unto you and forbid them not;
23 But ye shall pray for them, and shall not cast them out; and if it so be that they come unto you oft ye shall pray for them unto the Father, in my name.
24 Therefore, hold up your light that it may shine unto the world. Behold I am the light which ye shall hold up—that which ye have seen me do. Behold ye see that I have prayed unto the Father, and ye all have witnessed.
25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
So what is that we are commanded to do unto the world?
It's plain to me. You can choose to argue that Christ is not saying what He's saying. It's your choice. You argue against the Second Comforter. That's the camp you choose to be in. Apparently. To each his own.
Apparently you claim that there is no connection between verse 22 and 25. Interesting.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:37 pm
by topcat
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:33 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:30 pm
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:23 pm To understand the context of the verse, one should start from verse 22:
22 And behold, ye shall meet together oft; and ye shall not forbid any man from coming unto you when ye shall meet together, but suffer them that they may come unto you and forbid them not;
23 But ye shall pray for them, and shall not cast them out; and if it so be that they come unto you oft ye shall pray for them unto the Father, in my name.
24 Therefore, hold up your light that it may shine unto the world. Behold I am the light which ye shall hold up—that which ye have seen me do. Behold ye see that I have prayed unto the Father, and ye all have witnessed.
25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
So what is that we are commanded to do unto the world?
It's plain to me. You can choose to argue that Christ is not saying what He's saying. It's your choice. You argue against the Second Comforter. That's the camp you choose to be in. Apparently. To each his own.
Apparently you claim that there is no connection between verse 22 and 25. Interesting.
I see no connection. What connection are you attempting to make?

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:38 pm
by MMbelieve
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:31 pm
MMbelieve wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:30 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:17 pm
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:11 pm

Go and read the talks if you are interested.
Also, the way you read the verse might not be the way others read it.
No offense, but if you're going to bring up those talks without supporting your supposed rebuttal, then why do it? Kind of sloppy and misleading? I can almost guarantee those two talks do not support your supposed rebuttal. Your unwillingness to quote them is evidence of that.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... u?lang=eng

“I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world.”15

That is our charge. We must feel and see for ourselves and then help all of Heavenly Father’s children to feel and see and know that our Savior has taken upon Himself not only all our sins but also our pains and our suffering and afflictions so that He can know what we feel and how to comfort us. I testify of Him in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.”
15- 3 Nephi 18:25; emphasis added.

The Lord Has Not Forgotten You
By Linda S. Reeves
Second Counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency

I took the time to look up this talk and the scripture is indeed used and referenced.
Thanks for quoting it.

Quite obviously, and as predicted, she is speaking metaphorically!
And if we were told in general conference to feel the Lords wounds, how would that be received? How shall we do that when he is not here where we can go and approach him. If he was here and we were asked by him to feel his wounds and go testify then everyone would do so. He is not here among us to do such things. He may show himself to some of us and they then become special witnesses of the Savior. Most of us will not see the savior in our life time. But we can still know him and feel him which is no less powerful a testimony is it?

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:43 pm
by inho
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:37 pm
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:33 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:30 pm
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:23 pm To understand the context of the verse, one should start from verse 22:


So what is that we are commanded to do unto the world?
It's plain to me. You can choose to argue that Christ is not saying what He's saying. It's your choice. You argue against the Second Comforter. That's the camp you choose to be in. Apparently. To each his own.
Apparently you claim that there is no connection between verse 22 and 25. Interesting.
I see no connection. What connection are you attempting to make?
In my opinion the verses say that just as Jesus invited all those there to come to him, we should let all to come our meetings.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:49 pm
by topcat
MMbelieve wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:38 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:31 pm
MMbelieve wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:30 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:17 pm

No offense, but if you're going to bring up those talks without supporting your supposed rebuttal, then why do it? Kind of sloppy and misleading? I can almost guarantee those two talks do not support your supposed rebuttal. Your unwillingness to quote them is evidence of that.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... u?lang=eng

“I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world.”15

That is our charge. We must feel and see for ourselves and then help all of Heavenly Father’s children to feel and see and know that our Savior has taken upon Himself not only all our sins but also our pains and our suffering and afflictions so that He can know what we feel and how to comfort us. I testify of Him in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.”
15- 3 Nephi 18:25; emphasis added.

The Lord Has Not Forgotten You
By Linda S. Reeves
Second Counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency

I took the time to look up this talk and the scripture is indeed used and referenced.
Thanks for quoting it.

Quite obviously, and as predicted, she is speaking metaphorically!
And if we were told in general conference to feel the Lords wounds, how would that be received? How shall we do that when he is not here where we can go and approach him. If he was here and we were asked by him to feel his wounds and go testify then everyone would do so. He is not here among us to do such things. He may show himself to some of us and they then become special witnesses of the Savior. Most of us will not see the savior in our life time. But we can still know him and feel him which is no less powerful a testimony is it?
The people there were commanded to "come unto Him" and feel and see Him. They obeyed. Or 2500 people. If there were those who refused, then they didn't keep the commandment.

Then he says to those who came unto Him and felt and saw, "even so shall ye do unto the world". He's saying go and testify of this. Christ commands us to "come unto Him." The BoM teaches us powerfully and lucidly what this means.

The first great commandment, if obeyed, will result in us becoming like Him, to the point of receiving the Second Comforter.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 1:57 pm
by MMbelieve
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:49 pm
MMbelieve wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:38 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:31 pm
MMbelieve wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:30 pm

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... u?lang=eng

“I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world.”15

That is our charge. We must feel and see for ourselves and then help all of Heavenly Father’s children to feel and see and know that our Savior has taken upon Himself not only all our sins but also our pains and our suffering and afflictions so that He can know what we feel and how to comfort us. I testify of Him in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.”
15- 3 Nephi 18:25; emphasis added.

The Lord Has Not Forgotten You
By Linda S. Reeves
Second Counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency

I took the time to look up this talk and the scripture is indeed used and referenced.
Thanks for quoting it.

Quite obviously, and as predicted, she is speaking metaphorically!
And if we were told in general conference to feel the Lords wounds, how would that be received? How shall we do that when he is not here where we can go and approach him. If he was here and we were asked by him to feel his wounds and go testify then everyone would do so. He is not here among us to do such things. He may show himself to some of us and they then become special witnesses of the Savior. Most of us will not see the savior in our life time. But we can still know him and feel him which is no less powerful a testimony is it?
The people there were commanded to "come unto Him" and feel and see Him. They obeyed. Or 2500 people. If there were those who refused, then they didn't keep the commandment.

Then he says to those who came unto Him and felt and saw, "even so shall ye do unto the world". He's saying go and testify of this. Christ commands us to "come unto Him." The BoM teaches us powerfully and lucidly what this means.

The first great commandment, if obeyed, will result in us becoming like Him, to the point of receiving the Second Comforter.
Well, to your credit, I have never heard the phrase “second comforter” spoken nor have I heard the phrase “second anointing”.
However, it appears this scripture 3 Nephi 18:25 is not omitted from our current teachings.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 2:34 pm
by topcat
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:43 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:37 pm
inho wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:33 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:30 pm

It's plain to me. You can choose to argue that Christ is not saying what He's saying. It's your choice. You argue against the Second Comforter. That's the camp you choose to be in. Apparently. To each his own.
Apparently you claim that there is no connection between verse 22 and 25. Interesting.
I see no connection. What connection are you attempting to make?
In my opinion the verses say that just as Jesus invited all those there to come to him, we should let all to come our meetings.
Verse 25 says: "And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation."

This chapter is worthy of some deep study. I must dig deeper. And will.

I have noticed that verse 25 has something in common with verses 15 and 18. What all three verses have in common is the Savior's warning:

15: lest ye be tempted by the devil, and ye be led away captive by him.
18: lest ye enter into temptation; for Satan desireth to have you, that he may sift you as wheat.
25: whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.

What's the action in each verse that must be done to avoid the temptations of the devil?

15: watch and pray always...
18: must watch and pray always...
25: have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world...

I find this very interesting. Verses 15 and 18 are a repeat of each other. Verse 15 speaks of being led away by the devil. Verse 18 depicts Satan has desiring us, like he lusts after us, and wants to destroy us. The antidote is to watch and pray always. Then in verse 25 the warning to avoid temptation and deception appears again, but this time he adds something new. He does not say to watch and pray always, but he does give three specific things for us to do: to "come unto Him" for two purposes: to "feel" Him (undoubtedly referring to the actual touching of His body which he invested about 10 hours of time that very day. Just do the math. It took around 10 hours for him to let each of 2500 people feel his side, hands, and feet) and "see" Him.

I don't see in any way, shape or form that verse 25 is referring to come to some church meeting. "Come unto me" refers to Christ, not a church meeting. And it's important because if we don't do that, if we don't come into the fulness of His light, then we haven't experienced the perfect day, and we are therefore still in some degree of darkness and deception. By coming fully into the Light (His presence), we are out of darkness, and therefore can't be tempted by the devil.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 2:51 pm
by Juliet
God might shut up the tongues of the prophets and those who have sacred experiences because of the unbelief of the people.

Mormon chapter 1:

15 And I, being fifteen years of age and being somewhat of a sober mind, therefore I was visited of the Lord, and tasted and knew of the goodness of Jesus.

16 And I did endeavor to preach unto this people, but my mouth was shut, and I was forbidden that I should preach unto them; for behold they had wilfully rebelled against their God; and the beloved disciples were taken away out of the land, because of their iniquity.

Re: Why is this commandment blacked out in the Church?

Posted: April 2nd, 2019, 3:11 pm
by Cheetos
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 1:13 pm
Cheetos wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 12:39 pm
topcat wrote: April 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am Jesus actually gave this little-known, completely neglected commandment found in the Book of Mormon:
3 Nephi 18:25

25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
Christ commands those who have "felt" Him and "seen" Him, to go testify to the world that this is a COMMANDMENT!! Not a simple suggestion, but something we should actively be pursuing. We are to "come unto Him", to the intimate point where we thrust our hands into his side to feel the wound in his side, and to feel the prints of the nails in His hands and in His feet, "that ye may know that I am the God of Israel," as He said.

Whoso does not keep this commandment (and certainly those who OPPOSE it), "suffers themselves to be led into temptation" of the evil one.

I didn't say it, Jesus Christ did.

This year, I taught this verse/ the commandment to literally come unto Christ to feel and see Him, to a full chapel of LDS in the second period. Nobody had even heard or could recognize this commandment. I know because I asked. "By a show of hands, who's heard of this commandment?" Not a hand was raised!

This commandment of Jesus Christ is TOTALLY ignored in the Church. It is omitted from the leadership's preaching and quite literally blacked out in the Church's publications (save the BoM). Yes, it still exists in the BoM.

We should ask ourselves WHY. Why would the leaders ignore this commandment? Is it not important?

On a scale of 1-10, where would you rank the importance of this commandment, with a 1 being not so important and 10 being REAL important?

I'd say it's a "10". And yet, virtually nobody knows about it. Could it be that the manual writers and leadership aren't aware of it? That they've innocently skipped over it? And if they have read it, why no stage time given to it? It must be unimportant, right?

But the verse is written to eliminate that as a possible conclusion.

The chilling point, the thing that should give us pause, that should cause us to "fear and tremble", if you will, is that the ignoring of this commandment, and certainly any opposition to this commandment, results in the person not trying to keep that commandment being subject to the power of the devil. That of course would include deception. And if we are deceived, but believe we are not deceived, then what an awful state we are in!

We might be benefited by remembering that vanity and unbelief got the Church condemned way back in 1832 (DC 84) because they didn't take seriously the BoM, specifically by failing to DO what the book taught.

Please ponder this commandment of Jesus Christ and His warning. If what He is saying is true, then there is a very serious consequence for not at least trying to keep the commandment. How do we refer to this commandment clearly expressed in 3 Nephi 18:25? It's nothing less than the Second Comforter!

What a shame it is to have this doctrine be controversial in the Church today, and borderline heretical! How dare leaders or ANY faithful Mormon oppose, ridicule, or diminish the doctrine of the Second Comforter! Christ said this is a commandment, and to discourage those who would mock this commandment, He declared such a person would be under the power of the devil!

In the lesson I taught recently, I read the last few verses of 3 Nephi 15 and first few verses of chapter 16 which clearly define Christ's numbered sheep as people who hear His voice and see Him. There's no lack of clarity. 2500 people had just heard Him, seen Him, and FELT Him, as commanded. There can be no misunderstanding what the verses verdict is on the definition of His "sheep." And yet, four people in a row raised their hands to state, "WE are His sheep. All of us are His sheep." Despite reading the exact opposite of what they said seconds earlier, these good Mormons couldn't separate themselves from their unbelief.

I challenged them all, as tactfully and lovingly as I could, to go back and read how the verses defined His "sheep". I asked them to put their personal interpretation on the shelf, and let the Scriptures speak for themselves.

This was awkward.

So we went back and read the verses, and I declared there was and is no doubt what the verses actually say. Christ says His sheep are those who hear His voice and see Him. I challenged them to set their hearts on that destination. Yes, it's a process, it's a journey. There is a path, and that path is the Gospel, but there is a destination and reaching that destination (of hearing Him and seeing Him) qualifies us to become His sheep. So said Jesus. Not me.

And yet, will there be some people here who choose to rail against Christ's teachings? Probably. And why would believers oppose the truth? Because they can. They are free to do so. That's the great thing about our time here. We can choose the vanity and unbelief of "I hear His voice and "see" Him. I am His sheep," which causes us to not even have the goal He's set for us, with the consequence of being led into temptation.

Gosh, I tell ya, the BoM sure has some interesting doctrine in its pages!
Read in context, the scripture cited is the commandment to come unto Christ ourselves and for us to extend that command to all others that we may come to know Christ. It wasnt literally meant for each one of us to come and thrust our hand in his side and see him physically while in the flesh of our mortal lives.
The context is exactly what you say it isn't.

He was speaking to the 2500 who touched him. THAT is all the context you need. Not to mention, in this chapter He institutes the sacrament, where bread is broken and EVERYBODY "touches" / feels the bread, the symbol of His body.

Yes, please read in context. Your interpretation of not applying to us is completely opposite to what is written.

It's too bad that people here want to argue against being brought into Christ's presence.

People would rather argue against that true END GOAL or PURPOSE of our very lives than admit the Church doesn't teach this.
I think it is true the end goal, in the eternity, is to come physically into his presence. But that is not the commandment given here, it is to go out and bring people to the kingdom, to Christ spiritually, in the which, in eternity, we will behold him physically. It would be wrong to assume it means we have to be brought physically into his presence in mortality because we are commanded to.