Random thoughts...

[FrankOne]

This is a bit like a journal - that my kids & others have access to - who may benefit (or not ) at some point.

A somewhat rare thought that I want to express before I change my mind again…

Who gives a rip what we believe? What does it really matter in the big picture? Personally I pretty much don’t like & avoid jalapeños. Why would I get upset if someone else likes them? Granted, some herd mentalities can & do hurt people, but so many beliefs are not deal-breakers. Strongly agree. I am prepared and expect to learn that I am wrong about a great many things. The important thing - to ME- is a sincere pursuit of truth. I have found so much in other belief systems that enhance my understanding of principles that most LDS would agree on, but I find it sad that most will not look outside of their own box because they feel like to do so would be a sin of some kind. The only belief systems that are deal-breakers for me are belief systems that try to coerce the minds of others. That mindset I see as an existential threat and one worthy of enmity.

I want to create friendships that are like - or better than - family. Nobody’s perfect & nobody will believe the exact same way as I do on everything. How boring if otherwise! Of course it’s good to be selective in everything - life, time & energy are limited so they need to be invested well. Still, I am realizing that for pretty much everyone, there are some topics in which we need to agree to disagree. I like that idea of friendships that are like, or even better than, family. I also like the idea of trying to build those kinds of relationships with family members. While taking into account your good thoughts above about no need to be identical, but also that we have limited time and energy, I quite like what C.S. Lewis had to say in "The Four Loves" about friendship.

“Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend. The rest of us know that though we can have erotic love and friendship for the same person yet in some ways nothing is less like a Friendship than a love-affair. Lovers are always talking to one another about their love; Friends hardly ever about their Friendship. Lovers are normally face to face, absorbed in each other; Friends, side by side, absorbed in some common interest. Above all, Eros (while it lasts) is necessarily between two only. But two, far from being the necessary number for Friendship, is not even the best. And the reason for this is important.
... In each of my friends there is something that only some other friend can fully bring out. By myself I am not large enough to call the whole man into activity; I want other lights than my own to show all his facets... Hence true Friendship is the least jealous of loves. Two friends delight to be joined by a third, and three by a fourth, if only the newcomer is qualified to become a real friend. They can then say, as the blessed souls say in Dante, 'Here comes one who will augment our loves.' For in this love 'to divide is not to take away.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Four Loves

What matters more is how we act. We may claim to be a jerk but act so godly or may claim to be so godly but act like a jerk. Actions speak louder than words. I would say at times I fit both of these. I feel that I am very chaotic in a sense. There are times that I feel I am "vibing" easily at 400 (reason) and other times that I might be as low as 50.

I don't want to appear "clique-ish", but while there are many here at LDSFF that I have some respect for, there are only a handful that I would really LIKE to have a true friendship with. Some I am intrigues with and definitely want to get to know better and might wish a friendship with in the future. But I definitely relate to the "limited time and energy" thought that you expressed above. I just don't want to waste time with people that are not somewhat oriented towards the same target as me.

I'm not going to name names as I would certainly forget one or more people and or feelings might be hurt. There are also probably some that might be surprised that they would be on a list of a dozen or so.

There is something to be said for having a tribe.

The above brings to mind, again, the words of Bishop Koyle as he describes the desperation of a future time. He said that when 11 families can come together as one, then the Dream/Relief Mine will open. As I've said before, if we're honest with ourselves, the foregoing is unthinkable. I would love to be a part of a group that can band together and find the way of unity. I realize that I am not exempt from human weakness, but I would enjoy the work and learning process. This is the second forum that I have been on which is based on a foundation of Christ. I have learned much from interacting online with many experiences being personally painful . I'm not sure if I'm just worn out now or that I've learned understanding, but whatever it is, it's working for me.

What could cause enough of a change for 11 families to even want to unite? We're getting there, slowly but surely.

[Thinker]

I want to create friendships that are like - or better than - family. Nobody’s perfect & nobody will believe the exact same way as I do on everything. How boring if otherwise! Of course it’s good to be selective in everything - life, time & energy are limited so they need to be invested well. Still, I am realizing that for pretty much everyone, there are some topics in which we need to agree to disagree.

What matters more is how we act. We may claim to be a jerk but act so godly or may claim to be so godly but act like a jerk. Actions speak louder than words.

Yes, it's very obvious that there are some topics where people need to stop arguing (trying to convince others to believe their way posts without end), and agree to disagree.

I like this site because there is so much to learn - and it definitely is not an echo chamber. Sometimes, I come away feeling like I've just attended a very enlightening Sunday School class or sacrament meeting.

I’m definitely grateful for people here & this forum. It has helped me a lot. Though there are times I’ve also gotten really ticked off. Ce la vie. I’m working on not caring too much when that energy is better spent other ways.

[Thinker]

… Strongly agree. I am prepared and expect to learn that I am wrong about a great many things. The important thing - to ME- is a sincere pursuit of truth. I have found so much in other belief systems that enhance my understanding of principles that most LDS would agree on, but I find it sad that most will not look outside of their own box because they feel like to do so would be a sin of some kind. The only belief systems that are deal-breakers for me are belief systems that try to coerce the minds of others. That mindset I see as an existential threat and one worthy of enmity.

…I like that idea of friendships that are like, or even better than, family. I also like the idea of trying to build those kinds of relationships with family members. While taking into account your good thoughts above about no need to be identical, but also that we have limited time and energy, I quite like what C.S. Lewis had to say in "The Four Loves" about friendship.

“Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend. The rest of us know that though we can have erotic love and friendship for the same person yet in some ways nothing is less like a Friendship than a love-affair. Lovers are always talking to one another about their love; Friends hardly ever about their Friendship. Lovers are normally face to face, absorbed in each other; Friends, side by side, absorbed in some common interest. Above all, Eros (while it lasts) is necessarily between two only. But two, far from being the necessary number for Friendship, is not even the best. And the reason for this is important.
... In each of my friends there is something that only some other friend can fully bring out. By myself I am not large enough to call the whole man into activity; I want other lights than my own to show all his facets... Hence true Friendship is the least jealous of loves. Two friends delight to be joined by a third, and three by a fourth, if only the newcomer is qualified to become a real friend. They can then say, as the blessed souls say in Dante, 'Here comes one who will augment our loves.' For in this love 'to divide is not to take away.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Four Loves

…
I would say at times I fit both of these. I feel that I am very chaotic in a sense. There are times that I feel I am "vibing" easily at 400 (reason) and other times that I might be as low as 50.


I don't want to appear "clique-ish", but while there are many here at LDSFF that I have some respect for, there are only a handful that I would really LIKE to have a true friendship with. Some I am intrigues with and definitely want to get to know better and might wish a friendship with in the future. But I definitely relate to the "limited time and energy" thought that you expressed above. I just don't want to waste time with people that are not somewhat oriented towards the same target as me.

I'm not going to name names as I would certainly forget one or more people and or feelings might be hurt. There are also probably some that might be surprised that they would be on a list of a dozen or so.

There is something to be said for having a tribe.

Lots of good thoughts…
I relate a lot with you maybe because our personalities are so similar & we’re on this forum that draws relatively unique people.

Admitting I was wrong, I made a mistake etc., is not fun but I probably get further than if I didn’t. It’s common to get so attached to beliefs or perspectives - as if they are us. Businesses often pay for customer feedback - even knowing mistakes/flaws is valuable to being able to improve. A growth mindset is one of my ideals. You mentioned as long as we’re seeking truth. Some Swedenborg writings suggest the afterlife sees the process of growth as more important than arriving at some state.

I agree that “I find it sad that most will not look outside of their own box because they feel like to do so would be a sin of some kind. The only belief systems that are deal-breakers for me are belief systems that try to coerce the minds of others.”
Of course, each of us are constantly trying to persuade others to understand where we’re coming from, but the type of belief system that punishes attempts toward God (truth), is a profound level of evil, especially when disguised as speaking for God (in vain). Free will is indeed the main issue what this ongoing spiritual battle is about!

Friendship is so valuable! Friends have helped me feel encouraged, believed in, supported, lightened & loved.

Nobody’s perfect. Some years ago, I had a pivotal dream in which the walls of my childhood home were all glass/see-through… & I began to see weaknesses in myself & others that for most of my life, I had turned a blind eye to. But our spirits never turn a blind eye… the I AM behind I AM is aware 24-7.

Have you heard of IFS (internal family systems) therapy? It’s kinda like the movie, “Inside out.” I’m just beginning to learn about it, though it’s been around for a while. They call the essence of us the Self who ideally decides which parts of us get the spotlight. It seems similar to positive disintegration & incorporating the shadow. So I’m kind of excited to learn more!

So true that we naturally crave connection & belonging. "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts."

[Thinker]

Why anger, sadness etc?
God created everything including those because everything has a use or purpose.

Anger, in its healthy purpose, is to motivate the correction of injustice. In many countries are laws that are designed to maintain justice & correct injustice.

Many NDE’s show how the afterlife is also just & seeks to correct injustices. We each deeply want a sense of justice, though not always when we have screwed up… but in the big picture, it serves all well to help us grow.

Maybe a foundational spiritual law is fairness or justice. Probably, everything will eventually be fair and just. And this is not about human sacrifice scapegoating dogma, but about each individual actually learning how the consequences of their choices affected themselves & others & thereby learning. A good parent does not discipline a misbehaving child by beating their sibling - but rather they teach the misbehaving child about logical or natural consequences & how to take responsibility so they improve as a person.

[Thinker]

For about a month now, I kept having a part of a song, “— - carry on!” come to mind. But after searching a lot & asking my sister if she could think of what song it might be - (& together we came up with about 10 songs) but still nothing. I sensed this song had a message for me. I kinda prayed having faith that I’d eventually hear the song & today heard it on the radio, which I don’t often listen to. I love the part about angels (even though later he recanted) - I believe angels do look after us. I also like the part before “carry on”…
“& I’ll try, Oh Lord, I'll try To carry on…”
..&…

I look to the sea … Reflections in the waves spark my memory
. Some happy some sad. 
I think of childhood friends and the dreams we had
. We live happily forever, 
So the story goes
, But somehow we missed out 
On that pot of gold
. But we'll try best that we can 
To carry on
!

A gathering of angels 
Appeared above my head
. They sang to me this song of hope 
And this is what they said
, They said, come sail away, come sail away
 Come sail away with me…
https://youtu.be/9TcztyNlFx0

[FrankOne]

For about a month now, I kept having a part of a song, “— - carry on!” come to mind. But after searching a lot & asking my sister if she could think of what song it might be - (& together we came up with about 10 songs) but still nothing. I sensed this song had a message for me. I kinda prayed having faith that I’d eventually hear the song & today heard it on the radio, which I don’t often listen to. I love the part about angels (even though later he recanted) - I believe angels do look after us. I also like the part before “carry on”…
“& I’ll try, Oh Lord, I'll try To carry on…”
..&…

I look to the sea … Reflections in the waves spark my memory
. Some happy some sad. 
I think of childhood friends and the dreams we had
. We live happily forever, 
So the story goes
, But somehow we missed out 
On that pot of gold
. But we'll try best that we can 
To carry on
!

A gathering of angels 
Appeared above my head
. They sang to me this song of hope 
And this is what they said
, They said, come sail away, come sail away
 Come sail away with me…
https://youtu.be/9TcztyNlFx0

a few months ago, I was contemplating some spiritual ideas and I heard a song playing in my head. I kept hearing the tune and I thought I recognized it, so I relaxed to listen. I couldn't hear the words clearly and I started to hum it. I finally had the 'ah hah' moment and looked it up. It was of great encouragement and still is each time I read the lyrics and listen to it.

Don't look back
A new day is breakin'
It's been too long since I felt this way
I don't mind where I get taken
The road is callin'
Today is the day

I can see
It took so long to realize
I'm much too strong
Not to compromise
Now I see what I am is holding me down
I'll turn it around

I finally see the dawn arrivin'
I see beyond the road I'm drivin'
Far away and left behind

It's a new horizon and I'm awakin' now
Oh I see myself in a brand new way
The sun is shinin'
The clouds are breakin'
Cause I can't lose now, there's no game to play

I can tell
There's no more time left to criticize
I've seen what I could not recognize
Everything in my life was leading me on
But I can be strong

I finally see the dawn arrivin'
I see beyond the road I'm drivin'
Far away and left behind

[Cruiserdude]

For about a month now, I kept having a part of a song, “— - carry on!” come to mind. But after searching a lot & asking my sister if she could think of what song it might be - (& together we came up with about 10 songs) but still nothing. I sensed this song had a message for me. I kinda prayed having faith that I’d eventually hear the song & today heard it on the radio, which I don’t often listen to. I love the part about angels (even though later he recanted) - I believe angels do look after us. I also like the part before “carry on”…
“& I’ll try, Oh Lord, I'll try To carry on…”
..&…

I look to the sea … Reflections in the waves spark my memory
. Some happy some sad. 
I think of childhood friends and the dreams we had
. We live happily forever, 
So the story goes
, But somehow we missed out 
On that pot of gold
. But we'll try best that we can 
To carry on
!

A gathering of angels 
Appeared above my head
. They sang to me this song of hope 
And this is what they said
, They said, come sail away, come sail away
 Come sail away with me…
https://youtu.be/9TcztyNlFx0

One of my favorites.... I feel things when I listen to that one

[Thinker]

a few months ago, I was contemplating some spiritual ideas and I heard a song playing in my head. I kept hearing the tune and I thought I recognized it, so I relaxed to listen. I couldn't hear the words clearly and I started to hum it. I finally had the 'ah hah' moment and looked it up. It was of great encouragement and still is each time I read the lyrics and listen to it.

Don't look back
A new day is breakin'
It's been too long since I felt this way…

Good song - added it to my collection & listened to it again today. Thanks, Frank!

[Thinker]

For about a month now, I kept having a part of a song, “— - carry on!” come to mind. But after searching a lot & asking my sister if she could think of what song it might be - (& together we came up with about 10 songs) but still nothing. I sensed this song had a message for me. I kinda prayed having faith that I’d eventually hear the song & today heard it on the radio, which I don’t often listen to. I love the part about angels (even though later he recanted) - I believe angels do look after us. I also like the part before “carry on”…
“& I’ll try, Oh Lord, I'll try To carry on…”
..&…

I look to the sea … Reflections in the waves spark my memory
. Some happy some sad. 
I think of childhood friends and the dreams we had
. We live happily forever, 
So the story goes
, But somehow we missed out 
On that pot of gold
. But we'll try best that we can 
To carry on
!

A gathering of angels 
Appeared above my head
. They sang to me this song of hope 
And this is what they said
, They said, come sail away, come sail away
 Come sail away with me…
https://youtu.be/9TcztyNlFx0

One of my favorites.... I feel things when I listen to that one

Thanks, CruiserDude.
I feel it too. Music can be powerful!

[Thinker]

Just went to sacrament meeting & need to vent. How many “active” members are mentally 16-year-olds? How many stopped growing about then? I’d guess +90%. They give talks geared for others who think like them. Teenagers have their own strengths & weaknesses but when those weaknesses are in full grown adults who are grandparents - I can’t help but feel like it’s such a sad waste.

I don’t think I should go to church anymore - or at least take a long break. I don’t want to look down on people - especially when I was as they are.

How can I view full-grown cult members in a better light - with more love while not turning a blind eye to evil/ignor-ance?

[Original_Intent]

Just went to sacrament meeting & need to vent. How many “active” members are mentally 16-year-olds? How many stopped growing about then? I’d guess +90%. They give talks geared for others who think like them. Teenagers have their own strengths & weaknesses but when those weaknesses are in full grown adults who are grandparents - I can’t help but feel like it’s such a sad waste.

I don’t think I should go to church anymore - or at least take a long break. I don’t want to look down on people - especially when I was as they are.

How can I view full-grown cult members in a better light - with more love while not turning a blind eye to evil/ignor-ance?

I can't do it. The most I can muster is pity, which doesn't feel much like love.

At best I see "good hearted children" which I suppose the argument can be made that Jesus said to be so. Certainly it is better than being a wiser but more service to self oriented person.

"A bible! A bible! We have a bible and need no more bible!" is in my opinion one of the worst self-curses that can be uttered.

It is difficult to maintain silence watching those around you - who SHOULD know better, and have certainly been given some of the best tools to know better, continue to, effectively, play in the mud. And any effort to point out that there are, at minimum, better games to be played, is only met with anger or derision from the Great and Spacious building.

Seek Seekers and give them what aid you can. Emulate Jung and don't try to drag them onto your path, but help them to walk their path.

[Thinker]

I can't do it. The most I can muster is pity, which doesn't feel much like love.

At best I see "good hearted children" which I suppose the argument can be made that Jesus said to be so. Certainly it is better than being a wiser but more service to self oriented person.

"A bible! A bible! We have a bible and need no more bible!" is in my opinion one of the worst self-curses that can be uttered.

It is difficult to maintain silence watching those around you - who SHOULD know better, and have certainly been given some of the best tools to know better, continue to, effectively, play in the mud. And any effort to point out that there are, at minimum, better games to be played, is only met with anger or derision from the Great and Spacious building.

Seek Seekers and give them what aid you can. Emulate Jung and don't try to drag them onto your path, but help them to walk their path.

Thanks, OI. It helps to know I’m not the only one struggling with how to love “all-in”-cult-members. And I also appreciate your advice to seek seekers & respect different paths.

Spoiler

Last night I went to my 1st JP/lds/lobster meeting. It was pretty good, but I was reminded of different paths. A speaker suggested people who leave the church go to the dark side. But actually, I’d say the more truth - the more light! Still, it bothered me that he said that. Thankfully, someone kind of addressed it in Q&A.

I’m realizing the need to take responsibility of my own reactions. Sure, it’s understandable to be upset when people misjudge you so often - most people would be bothered. But I can’t change them. They will - if they continue seeking - eventually realize their mistake & be less ignorant in judging others. And God knows I’ve been quick to judge at times too.

If I feel deeply secure in myself, my worthiness, value, priorities etc., then someone saying or implying, “You’re a worthless unicorn!” will have no effect because I know it’s not true. Maybe partly why I was bothered this time is sometimes it has been true - sometimes I &/or others focus too much on the negatives of the church & that can put a darker cloud over us. OTOH, The cult is set up to be abusive to truth seekers - so it’s like an abuser getting mad at a victim for not being happy with the abuse. Of course TBM’s don’t see themselves as abusers - but often they can be socially, psychologically, financially emotionally & spirituality mean.

I’m learning to see BOTH the good & bad in myself & others & not to pretend one doesn’t exist. Not easy.

[Original_Intent]

I've been to a Lobster conference back when I lived in Utah. The one I attended was quite good, the keynote speaker was Christopher Hurtado who is a very wise young(er than me) man. He and Riley Risto run a YouTube channel called latter-Day Contemplations, Quite good, here are a few episodes that I rather liked.

[Thinker]

What if… entrance to Heaven was based on:

*Instances of lack of proper etiquette
*Caloric intake
*The member of sit ups you did
…etc…?

Such random things. I was taught in the church that God requires certain illogical things - some even immoral. It may be that etiquette, calories and sit-ups can factor in to our book of life review, but it’s absurd to even suggest that either or all 3 of them would be the standard by which one may enter Heaven.

[Fred]

Just went to sacrament meeting & need to vent. How many “active” members are mentally 16-year-olds? How many stopped growing about then? I’d guess +90%. They give talks geared for others who think like them. Teenagers have their own strengths & weaknesses but when those weaknesses are in full grown adults who are grandparents - I can’t help but feel like it’s such a sad waste.

I don’t think I should go to church anymore - or at least take a long break. I don’t want to look down on people - especially when I was as they are.

How can I view full-grown cult members in a better light - with more love while not turning a blind eye to evil/ignor-ance?

To each in their own time. Seek and ye shall find. It takes longer for people to seek that think they already found it. No seek, no find. Chances are slim that an angel will glide into their room and wake them up. You can tell them a truth if they will listen. But you haven't time to babysit them all. But you can be an example. Some may notice and ask you about it. Once you have their attention, they will listen. If you lead just one to Christ, you have created gratitude in three people, the person you led, Jesus, and yourself.

[Thinker]

Just went to sacrament meeting & need to vent. How many “active” members are mentally 16-year-olds? How many stopped growing about then? I’d guess +90%. They give talks geared for others who think like them. Teenagers have their own strengths & weaknesses but when those weaknesses are in full grown adults who are grandparents - I can’t help but feel like it’s such a sad waste.

I don’t think I should go to church anymore - or at least take a long break. I don’t want to look down on people - especially when I was as they are.

How can I view full-grown cult members in a better light - with more love while not turning a blind eye to evil/ignor-ance?

To each in their own time. Seek and ye shall find. It takes longer for people to seek that think they already found it. No seek, no find. Chances are slim that an angel will glide into their room and wake them up. You can tell them a truth if they will listen. But you haven't time to babysit them all. But you can be an example. Some may notice and ask you about it. Once you have their attention, they will listen…

Thanks, Fred. I’ve felt the spirit or had the impression to “save it.” I’m glad that I have told family & friends what I believe (usually after they tell me theirs repeatedly). They know - or maybe they don’t know where I stand. Not to be self-righteous (I’ve got a list of flaws), but I think some here who have realized the cultish/evil aspects can see more than those who haven’t seen that yet - at least in that capacity. They may know more about Coulomb’s law or multilevel marketing etc. “All are ignorant only on different subjects.”

[Thinker]

At this moment, this song resonates…

“So close, no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
And nothing else matters…”

No matter where we go, there we are and there the kingdom of God is. God couldn’t be much more from the heart. Forever trusting that we are spiritual beings loved by God - before, during & after life. When we understand and remember this truth about ourselves and others - everything else is peripheral.

Nothing else matters https://youtu.be/x7bIbVlIqEc

[Original_Intent]

At this moment, this song resonates…

“So close, no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
And nothing else matters…”

No matter where we go, there we are and there the kingdom of God is. God couldn’t be much more from the heart. Forever trusting that we are spiritual beings loved by God - before, during & after life. When we understand and remember this truth about ourselves and others - everything else is peripheral.

Nothing else matters https://youtu.be/x7bIbVlIqEc

A lot of people say that Metallica had "sold out" by this time, but this is one of their best in my opinion.

[Thinker]

A lot of people say that Metallica had "sold out" by this time, but this is one of their best in my opinion.

Definitely - at least in my opinion, it’s their best.

[Thinker]

I just came across an old acquaintance & said, “You haven’t changed in 20 years!” And I meant she looked pretty much the same. But I started thinking how that wouldn’t be a compliment in terms of spiritual and psychological development. Ideally, in 20 years time we see things in clearer, better ways and have grown and become better in multiple ways.

After all, God looks on the heart - & I believe what some have had visions about regarding the afterlife - that we will appear as we are in our personal development.

[Thinker]

A couple random thoughts or rants:

As in the movie, “Shallow Hal,” I think if you pay attention, people’s character (& how much effort they put into self improvement) can override looks. Years ago I dated a model who had no personality & soon looked to me unattractive. Another time someone very good looking repeatedly blamed me when he screwed up - and then appeared ugly.

Christian dogmatism like pretending you can just sweep all the crap under the rug - tends to make people anti-Christ in lacking compassion & demanding others also dysfunctionally deny negative feelings. Mormon dogmatism is also partly Satanic, not just in obeying Satan after he told them to put on (Freemason) garments, but evil in worshipping that as if that obedience of Satan makes them better than others who don’t similarly obey. Jung (?) suggested that everyone acts evil at times but the most evil is worshiping that evil.

[Thinker]

I was listening to a song I’ve heard many times over many years but suddenly had an epiphany - realized a new meaning.
“Let it go”
https://youtu.be/QVx5LdiKUO8?feature=shared

Previously I imagined someone punitively saying what I’ve heard repeatedly, “You’ve gotta forgive. You feeling abused is your problem - just let it go already!” I do recognize the need to for-give, but it’s like telling someone to not feel pain when they do. It’s an individual thing that nobody else can dictate. Also, I’ve realized that abusive people tend to blame those they abuse if they call them on it. And those type of people need to be let go of. “All that’s wrong in your life, let it go” - let them go. I used to feel so codependently responsible for mean, uncaring people in my life but now I think it’s best for me to let them go. I can’t control them but I won’t be mistreated. So, auf wiedersehen.

[Thinker]

Growing up in the church, even years after a faith crisis, I find myself occasionally still thinking insane thoughts like these profits are to worshipped as if God. Sometimes I think, “maybe they really are God’s spokesmen & cannot lead people astray.”

But consider 2 facts that show they prioritize praises of men over God, therefore they cannot be trusted.

1. The 2 biggest killers are abortion & cardiovascular disease. If these profits truly cared about the health of members, they would be banging the drum of repentance about this rather than banging it about a deceptively immoral lie during the common-cold (coronavirus) hoopla.

2. This is supposed to be a “gospel of repentance” yet we have our leader saying by example to not repent…“we don’t issue apologies.”

Side note regarding repentance:
IMO, Repentance is correcting incorrect thinking that is at the root of sin. Still, shame for even thinking evil can hinder the repentance process. Correct thinking is not shameful. Repentance in correcting thinking, is not a 1 time thing but rather a daily response-ability. Study of the soul (the heart of repentance) is an inseparable part of spirituality.

[Original_Intent]

Growing up in the church, even years after a faith crisis, I find myself occasionally still thinking insane thoughts like these profits are to worshipped as if God. Sometimes I think, “maybe they really are God’s spokesmen & cannot lead people astray.”

But consider 2 facts that show they prioritize praises of men over God, therefore they cannot be trusted.

1. The 2 biggest killers are abortion & cardiovascular disease. If these profits truly cared about the health of members, they would be banging the drum of repentance about this rather than banging it about a deceptively immoral lie during the common-cold (coronavirus) hoopla.

2. This is supposed to be a “gospel of repentance” yet we have our leader saying by example to not repent…“we don’t issue apologies.”

Side note regarding repentance:
IMO, Repentance is correcting incorrect thinking that is at the root of sin. Still, shame for even thinking evil can hinder the repentance process. Correct thinking is not shameful. Repentance in correcting thinking, is not a 1 time thing but rather a daily response-ability. Study of the soul (the heart of repentance) is an inseparable part of spirituality.

Good to hear from you - I was gonna PM you yesterday that we don't hear from you enough.

[Thinker]

Disclaimer: a lot of my writing on this forum is trying to process ideas - and sometimes presenting them for scrutiny etc. I know I don’t know much compared to all there is to know.

To my atheist friends,
Strip away all the dogma & what remains?
Belief in oneself & in striving for the highest GOoD. Integrity, or a lack of it. At the end of the day & life, I believe what matters most is how well did we love & seek after truth, & how well we love others as well as ourselves. Call it God or anything else - it is what we prioritize most - praises of others ? (Ie cult approval), our looks? An addiction? Doing what’s right?

What exactly is “right” when immorality is packaged to look good & good is shamed as bad? This goes back to the need to love and seek truth - especially those truths we’d rather not see. But it also cannot be putting our noses at the crap of the world. The grim reality is only the grim perspective. There are so many other viewpoints! Truth is in perspective - & the more perspectives (the more considering of all possible factors), the more truthful. That takes work & I understand that for the sake of simplicity & sanity, we don’t analyze everything to death. But just as we have brains & hearts , we have intuition -spiritual guidance - so that if we’re not numbed up on meds etc., we can discern the ever-so-subtle whispers guiding us.