LDS Freedom Forum

This is bogus. Whoever did write it is an expert at talking for hours and never actually saying anything. In this case, they simply typed it. Some govt jobs train to do that.

Toast wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 11:36 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 10:32 am Toast,
Do you believe that homosexual sex activity is sinful? Or, do you believe that if two men, or two women, are legally married (according to the law) that their sexual activity is not sinful?

I believe that hetero and homosexual sex, in or outside of marriage, is not a sin. If I did, I wouldn't have regular sex with my boyfriend whom I love.

So you enjoy abusing another man and enjoy being abused by another man?

And that is what homosexual sex is; it is anything but actual love. It is abuse; to ab-use something is to use something in a way in which it was not intended or made for. That is exactly what homosexual sex is-abuse.

Abuse is not love-it is hatred. Homosexual sex isn't love-it is hatred; hatred of self, hatred of others and hatred for what God has made and intended it for.

Toast wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 12:33 pm

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 11:44 am Are you a man or woman?

Why is that important? So other posters here can speculate on my testosterone level? Not important.
...

This kind of equivocation by the left is what's going to be normalizing pedophilia in a few more years.

Something's been brewing in my mind about this letter, given it's apparent intent to destroy faith in God and normalize perversion. The reality is that the church DOES have huge historical problems, which the first half of the letter outlined quite well. Satan can exploit all this to his ends. It's really important, it seems to me, for the church to address the historical problems and clean out its closet. They need to admit that some things done in the past were flat-out wrong, and stop pretending like everything's kosher, while they tell people to not bother doing any investigation of their own. If they don't do it, God will, in time. I'm pretty certain of that. Maybe it's kind of like they're all stuck in Hotel California.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 6:14 pm So you enjoy abusing another man and enjoy being abused by another man?

And that is what homosexual sex is; it is anything but actual love. It is abuse; to ab-use something is to use something in a way in which it was not intended or made for. That is exactly what homosexual sex is-abuse.

Abuse is not love-it is hatred. Homosexual sex isn't love-it is hatred; hatred of self, hatred of others and hatred for what God has made and intended it for.

If you want to talk about homosexuality, make another thread, this thread is about the Apostle's confession letter. But to answer your question, you quoted what I said, but it appears that you didn't read it. Let me clarify and answer your question, I sure do enjoy having awesome wild hot sex with my man out of nothing but pure love, yes. We love each other and we're quite happy. And who said I am a man?

Toast wrote: ↑March 28th, 2019, 11:47 pm

innocentoldguy wrote: ↑March 28th, 2019, 11:24 pm First of all, I believe this to be a total fabrication. Why? Because it is just a repackaging of tired anti-Mormon talking points. Even if it turns out to be a true statement, who cares? Nobody is infallible. We've had general authorities go apostate and fight against the church before. Yawn!

Second, I take umbrage with this argument, regardless of who utters it:

"Is God, as the creator, actually relegating those who claim to be gay--since birth--to a life of complete celibacy? If “man is that he might have joy,” then where is the joy of man to be found for such individuals? Did God make them this way? What do science and biology have to say about this issue?"

How pathetic of mind and reason do you have to be to fail to grasp the fact that we were ALL born with traits that, if left unchecked, will keep us out of God's kingdom? Why should gay people get a pass on immorality when the adulterers, polygamists, exhibitionists, pornographers, fornicators, and swingers do not? How does one take the phrase "man is that he might have joy," and arrive at the conclusion that joy is synonymous with sex? If the only joy one can find in life is in their pants, life must be pretty empty and meaningless. Christ didn't tell people to "get it on." He told us to take up our crosses and deny ourselves of all ungodliness. That includes gay people.

Wow, I'm absolutely blown away.. People like you unwittingly influence gay youth to commit suicide. You disgust me.

Wow.

Toast wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 7:45 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 6:14 pm So you enjoy abusing another man and enjoy being abused by another man?

And that is what homosexual sex is; it is anything but actual love. It is abuse; to ab-use something is to use something in a way in which it was not intended or made for. That is exactly what homosexual sex is-abuse.

Abuse is not love-it is hatred. Homosexual sex isn't love-it is hatred; hatred of self, hatred of others and hatred for what God has made and intended it for.

If you want to talk about homosexuality, make another thread, this thread is about the Apostle's confession letter. But to answer your question, you quoted what I said, but it appears that you didn't read it. Let me clarify and answer your question, I sure do enjoy having awesome wild hot sex with my man out of nothing but pure love, yes. We love each other and we're quite happy. And who said I am a man?

"The wicked take the truth to be hard."

You made it about homosexuality; you blame what someone else says as being responsible for a person taking their own life. I just can't imagine how incredibly over-reactive one's life must be to blame what someone else says as being responsible for their action.

The height of irresponsibility . . . .what you said upsets me so I'm going to go kill myself because of it? That's not a rational individual, that's a petulant child who in effect is saying "give me what I want or I'll do something really, really bad!".

Those who believe that need to grow up.

Toast wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 7:45 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 6:14 pm So you enjoy abusing another man and enjoy being abused by another man?

And that is what homosexual sex is; it is anything but actual love. It is abuse; to ab-use something is to use something in a way in which it was not intended or made for. That is exactly what homosexual sex is-abuse.

Abuse is not love-it is hatred. Homosexual sex isn't love-it is hatred; hatred of self, hatred of others and hatred for what God has made and intended it for.

If you want to talk about homosexuality, make another thread, this thread is about the Apostle's confession letter. But to answer your question, you quoted what I said, but it appears that you didn't read it. Let me clarify and answer your question, I sure do enjoy having awesome wild hot sex with my man out of nothing but pure love, yes. We love each other and we're quite happy. And who said I am a man?

Your post shows a lack of control. You have strong emotions about this issue and it appears you are incapable of resorting to argument or acceptance, so you have to lash out with something you think will shock us.

I have some bad news for you. Most of the people on this forum have a lot of life experience. It does not shock us. It does not help you win. What it does do is make us feel sorry for you, which I don't think is what you wanted.

I doubt most same-sex attracted people can fit into the one box you allow them: powerless victims who must commit suicide. You also do not have to feel powerless and with a need to act. If you are right, you should be able to argue it. If you can't argue it today, you should learn enough to argue it next time. If you move to the level of shock and awe writing, you will miss this opportunity to reflect and choose to grow into the person who can.

I used to be very against same-sex marriage and same-sex attraction and so forth. Most of the same-sex people I have known have been unhappy and have made it a point to try and upset other people. That made me believe that same-sex attraction was completely wrong and people willfully chose it.

I have since come to the conclusion that I don't really know. And right now, I don't really care. This came because of some people who were just nice and good people who were same-sex attracted. Only one of the same-sex couples I met even seemed happy! However, just being decent people was enough to change my viewpoint.

The other side are growing. If you do not grow, you will not be able to help your side in this debate. The other side will eventually win. Biology is on their side. I have never heard of exclusively homosexual animals. Many animals are bisexual or will readily have sex with inanimate objects. If you become militant and try and punish the people on this forum for not agreeing with you, that's too bad. Acceptance of same-sex marriage is not inevitable and the government is actually quite weak so you can not rely on boot-on-the-neck enforcement from them to back you up.

So what I'm saying to you is to grow in knowledge and stop using shock tactics. (If you want to keep using them, whatever, but always first be honest to yourself that you don't have enough knowledge to argue it with the facts.) Please come with some information I can use and grow from. Also, you will become unhappy if you create this cognitive dissonance between what you really know and what you project. That will likely make you incredibly bitter.

This is my favorite part:

"The Book of Mormon was not translated from Gold Plates using a so-called Urim and Thummim, or even a Peep Stone in a hat for that matter."

Not even a peepstone, eh? I think I will stick to my own revelations on this one. Sorry, you just can't attack the Book of Mormon, at least not in front of me. I have read most every anti article about the Book of Mormon and they are all amazingly pathetic. There is no other explanation for the Book of Mormon. Of course, I have the same testimony about the Mentinah Archive and the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, but anyway, I digress.

Sorry, buddy. There's a firm rock under the Book of Mormon that not even President Nelson could take away from me if he announced in general conference that this whole thing has been a charade from the beginning. Not even Joseph Smith, I daresay, could take the Book of Mormon away from my foundation.

And who said I am a man?

Well, are you?

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 12:09 am

And who said I am a man?

Well, are you?

I'm female.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 6:14 pm So you enjoy abusing another man and enjoy being abused by another man?

And that is what homosexual sex is; it is anything but actual love. It is abuse; to ab-use something is to use something in a way in which it was not intended or made for. That is exactly what homosexual sex is-abuse.

Abuse is not love-it is hatred. Homosexual sex isn't love-it is hatred; hatred of self, hatred of others and hatred for what God has made and intended it for.

If God didn't want people to have anal sex, then he wouldn't have made a prostate.



Stupid comments get stupid responses

Toast wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 12:03 am

Michelle wrote: ↑March 28th, 2019, 11:50 pm Hang on their Toast. You can argue about ideas, but no attacking an individual poster. That is against the rules.

Point taken, let me rephrase that, the idea in the remark is insensitive to people who are gay(5-14% of members). Isn't sex a big part of joy? Seems to me that the apostle was making a good point, but that is perhaps where our opinions may differ.

Additionally, the Apostle did not say joy was synonymous with sex. The Church does not even allow the relationship of marriage between people who are gay and love each other regardless of sex. Celibacy is more then just abstinence of sex, it is also the absence of a relationship like marriage with all the attendant features of love, affection, friendship, and sex.

LOL! You and I both know the author of this rediculous essay was not an Apostle, and likely was not even a member of this church. Additionally, I am unmoved by the tired old argument that opposing homosexuality and tolerance of it causes suicide. People commit suicide all the time for a multitude of reasons. If hearing the truth makes someone suicidal I can't help that and I don't think we should stop teaching one of the most universally accepted truths to placate a small but vocal minority.

[email protected] wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 1:17 am LOL! You and I both know the author of this rediculous essay was not an Apostle, and likely was not even a member of this church. Additionally, I am unmoved by the tired old argument that opposing homosexuality and tolerance of it causes suicide. People commit suicide all the time for a multitude of reasons. If hearing the truth makes someone suicidal I can't help that and I don't think we should stop teaching one of the most universally accepted truths to placate a small but vocal minority.

Good for you to have beliefs. For those who are willing to think freely and critically, I think this is a good starter into issues gays have with the church. Here's some facts for anyone who cares about the struggles LGBT members face in the mormon church, and how that can dramatically effect their lives. The church is essentially telling these people not to be themselves and not to be happy, with one reasoning being that it's simply a 'trial', when thinking about "What science and biology have to say about this issue?", i.e looking at relevant studies, it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that the most universally accepted truth is that it's not a trial and some people are really just LGBT. Also while under threats of not being with your family forever or getting to the highest kingdom of heaven, etc. The church needs to stop teaching that homosexuality is a sin if it wants to have a chance of surviving in the 21st century. "The LDS Church could easily drop the religious myth elements of the organization...". I think this is another great point in the letter.

Some facts regarding suicide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MxCXjfAunk

Excellent, highly recommended testimony of a cute and well spoken gay exmo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6RBOvYDW4Y

I'm sure all of you are familiar with the song I'll Walk With You. I find it ironic while reading some of the posts here. Here's the lyrics:

If you don't walk as most people do,
Some people walk away from you,
But I won't! I won't!
If you don't talk as most people do,
Some people talk and laugh at you,
But I won't! I won't!
I'll walk with you. I'll talk with you.
That's how I'll show my love for you.
Jesus walked away from none.
He gave his love to ev'ryone.
So I will! I will!
Jesus blessed all he could see,
Then turned and said, "Come, follow me."
And I will! I will!
I will! I will!
I'll walk with you. I'll talk with you.
That's how I'll show my love for you.

Toast wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 2:03 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 1:17 am LOL! You and I both know the author of this rediculous essay was not an Apostle, and likely was not even a member of this church. Additionally, I am unmoved by the tired old argument that opposing homosexuality and tolerance of it causes suicide. People commit suicide all the time for a multitude of reasons. If hearing the truth makes someone suicidal I can't help that and I don't think we should stop teaching one of the most universally accepted truths to placate a small but vocal minority.

Good for you to have beliefs. Here's a good starter into issues gays have with the church. Here's some facts for anyone who's willing to critically think and anyone who cares about the struggles people with different sexual orientations face in the mormon church. The church is essentially telling these people not to be themselves and not to be happy, with one reasoning of it being a 'trial', when thinking about "What science and biology have to say about this issue?", i.e looking at relevant studies, it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that the most universally accepted truth is that it's not a trial and some people are really just LGBT. Also while being under threats of not being with your family forever or getting to the highest kingdom of heaven, etc. The church needs to stop teaching that homosexuality is a sin if it wants to have a chance of surviving in the 21st century, among many other things.

Some facts regarding suicide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MxCXjfAunk

Excellent, highly recommended testimony of a cute and well spoken gay exmo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6RBOvYDW4Y

I'm sure all of you are familiar with the song I'll Walk With You. I find it ironic while reading some of the posts here. Here's the lyrics:

If you don't walk as most people do,
Some people walk away from you,
But I won't! I won't!
If you don't talk as most people do,
Some people talk and laugh at you,
But I won't! I won't!
I'll walk with you. I'll talk with you.
That's how I'll show my love for you.
Jesus walked away from none.
He gave his love to ev'ryone.
So I will! I will!
Jesus blessed all he could see,
Then turned and said, "Come, follow me."
And I will! I will!
I will! I will!
I'll walk with you. I'll talk with you.
That's how I'll show my love for you.

And the battle continues. Wickedness striving to become accepted.....
Jesus walked in Sodom and Gommorah, or at the very least sent a couple of His trusted Angel's to survey the place and decided to burn them up. And why? Because one of the "sins of Sodom" was, well, as we refer today, "sodomy". As far as them committing suicide today, well there never was true happiness in sin, be it theft, murder, adultery, sodomy, abortion, pedophilia, rape, etc. etc. etc....
Rather than demanding that all descend down to the level of Sodom and Gommorah and bring the wrath of an Offended God upon us, why not humble ourselves and repent of all our wickedness before it's to late.....

simpleton wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 3:27 am And the battle continues. Wickedness striving to become accepted.....
Jesus walked in Sodom and Gommorah, or at the very least sent a couple of His trusted Angel's to survey the place and decided to burn them up. And why? Because one of the "sins of Sodom" was, well, as we refer today, "sodomy". As far as them committing suicide today, well there never was true happiness in sin, be it theft, murder, adultery, sodomy, abortion, pedophilia, rape, etc. etc. etc....
Rather than demanding that all descend down to the level of Sodom and Gommorah and bring the wrath of an Offended God upon us, why not humble ourselves and repent of all our wickedness before it's to late.....

Regarding your comment about suicide, no simpleton, you got it backwards. Don't take suicide lightly, that's unacceptable to be dismissive of people ending their own life, even mormons would find your comment unacceptable. They're not unhappy because it's a sin, they're unhappy because the church ostracizes and punishes them by planting the idea that it's a sin. They want them to believe that it's wrong and that brings on guilt and physiological instability. Being LGBT is not wrong, it's not a sin, it's not a trial, it's who you are. On the bright side, let us all thank God that LGBT acceptance is growing far faster then old dying fraudulent homophobic mythology.

simpleton wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 3:27 am why not humble ourselves and repent of all our wickedness before it's to late

Because it's like I said before, if God didn't want man to have anal sex, he wouldn't have created prostates.

Because prostates.

Toast wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 3:41 am

simpleton wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 3:27 am And the battle continues. Wickedness striving to become accepted.....
Jesus walked in Sodom and Gommorah, or at the very least sent a couple of His trusted Angel's to survey the place and decided to burn them up. And why? Because one of the "sins of Sodom" was, well, as we refer today, "sodomy". As far as them committing suicide today, well there never was true happiness in sin, be it theft, murder, adultery, sodomy, abortion, pedophilia, rape, etc. etc. etc....
Rather than demanding that all descend down to the level of Sodom and Gommorah and bring the wrath of an Offended God upon us, why not humble ourselves and repent of all our wickedness before it's to late.....

Regarding your comment about suicide, no simpleton, you got it backwards. Don't take suicide lightly, that's unacceptable to be dismissive of people ending their own life, even mormons would find your comment unacceptable. They're not unhappy because it's a sin, they're unhappy because the church ostracizes and punishes them by planting the idea that it's a sin. They want them to believe that it's wrong and that brings on guilt and physiological instability. Being LGBT is not wrong, it's not a sin, it's not a trial, it's who you are. On the bright side, let us all thank God that LGBT acceptance is growing far faster then old dying fraudulent homophobic mythology.

simpleton wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 3:27 am why not humble ourselves and repent of all our wickedness before it's to late

Because it's like I said before, if God didn't want man to have anal sex, he wouldn't have created prostates.

Leave Mormonism out of it if you would like... But how about the Bible, can that be used as a "moral standard"? If not, then there is nothing to discuss with you.
But, if it is, and I believe it is, then LGBT is sin, universally, along with the other sins and crimes mentioned above and countless others not mentioned....

Isaiah 3:

8 For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory.

9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

10 Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.

11 Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.

12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

13 The LORD standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people.

14 The LORD will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses.

15 What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord GOD of hosts.

16 Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:

17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts.

18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,
19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,
21The rings, and nose jewels,
22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails.

24 And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.

25 Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.

26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she being desolate shall sit upon the ground.....

If Isaiah applies to us, or is talking about us ( which I think it does) then we are in trouble.

I'm sure all of you are familiar with the song I'll Walk With You. I find it ironic while reading some of the posts here

In the Parable of the Talents the servant who was cautious wound up with his talent being taken away and given to the one who took risks. We could speculate what held the "slothful" servant back; was he fearful, shy, suffer from social anxiety disorder...who knows? He still wound up with nothing.

Nobody who has read that parable has not felt a bit sorry for this guy. However, we are taught that if we do not push ourselves to our limits then we lose whatever we have. That is the way the Kingdom operates.

Nobody can totally pinpoint what might be the factor (s) that cause some men to be gay. Yet we are taught that if we do not marry and have children we cannot reach the highest levels in the next life. Does that mean a gay man will be caste into some hell that looks like the back of a heavy metal album from the 1980s? Probably not. Yet he cannot have eternal increase and cannot reach the apex of the next life. As for women, it may be different as they can still be part of a family unit and bring forth children even if they are lesbian, if polygamy were to exist in this life, as it does the next. A woman also does not possess the same priesthood as the man and that may explain why, in the scriptures, such women were not subject to the death penalty.

Regardless of the reasons, sure, we can be hyper-empathetic but too much empathy will lead one away from any Gospel principles.

They want them to believe that it's wrong and that brings on guilt and physiological instability. Being LGBT is not wrong, it's not a sin, it's not a trial, it's who you are. On the bright side, let us all thank God that LGBT acceptance is growing far faster then old dying fraudulent homophobic mythology.

Where in the scriptures does it say that Jesus will return carrying a rainbow flag?

We should treat people as we would want to be treated. I do not meet up with gay people and start quoting scriptures that are not validating of their lifestyle. That said, there are scriptural considerations that cannot be banned either.

Toast wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 12:33 pm

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 29th, 2019, 11:46 am Where exactly do you draw the line for sin? Because if fornication and sodomy don't fit the bill, not much else does.

I recently read a great quote by Shakespeare, "Nothing is either good or bad, but thinking makes it so", and I kind of see the logic of that. I have been evolving away from the 'lds norm' but remain ever curious about it as I am still surrounded by the culture.

I'm guessing that although you may have read the quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet, you missed the context completely. Shakespeare wasn't proclaiming moral relativism, as you are. Ironically, Hamlet, from whom we get the lines "nothing is either good or bad", spends the entire play condemning his mother for..... drumroll..... sexual sin. Ultimately, her death at the end of the play is a form of justice for her actions.

Clearly, even to Shakespeare, there are such things as sins. Convincing yourself they aren't will not remove their consequences. I hope you figure that out sooner rather than later.

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 7:28 am

I'm sure all of you are familiar with the song I'll Walk With You. I find it ironic while reading some of the posts here

In the Parable of the Talents the servant who was cautious wound up with his talent being taken away and given to the one who took risks. We could speculate what held the "slothful" servant back; was he fearful, shy, suffer from social anxiety disorder...who knows? He still wound up with nothing.

Nobody who has read that parable has not felt a bit sorry for this guy. However, we are taught that if we do not push ourselves to our limits then we lose whatever we have. That is the way the Kingdom operates.

Nobody can totally pinpoint what might be the factor (s) that cause some men to be gay. Yet we are taught that if we do not marry and have children we cannot reach the highest levels in the next life. Does that mean a gay man will be caste into some hell that looks like the back of a heavy metal album from the 1980s? Probably not. Yet he cannot have eternal increase and cannot reach the apex of the next life. As for women, it may be different as they can still be part of a family unit and bring forth children even if they are lesbian, if polygamy were to exist in this life, as it does the next. A woman also does not possess the same priesthood as the man and that may explain why, in the scriptures, such women were not subject to the death penalty.

Regardless of the reasons, sure, we can be hyper-empathetic but too much empathy will lead one away from any Gospel principles.

Here is some "pinpointing"...

Roman's 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

1. OP writes bogus Apostle letter, makes a website of it, registers a domain name anonymously.
2. Comes here to link it, saying it's interesting
3. Gets called out
4. Highlights a portion about homosexuality
5. Get predictable response
6. Feels empowered, pushes agenda
7. Grows audience through more absurdity
8. Fully engages in anti-LDS rhetoric

Mission accomplished. Stop giving credence to people like this. If they have to hide, lie, distort, etc to validate their positions they really have nothing to contribute. I'm shocked this type of crap is moderated better.

Toast wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 2:03 am

[email protected] wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 1:17 am LOL! You and I both know the author of this rediculous essay was not an Apostle, and likely was not even a member of this church. Additionally, I am unmoved by the tired old argument that opposing homosexuality and tolerance of it causes suicide. People commit suicide all the time for a multitude of reasons. If hearing the truth makes someone suicidal I can't help that and I don't think we should stop teaching one of the most universally accepted truths to placate a small but vocal minority.

Good for you to have beliefs. For those who are willing to think freely and critically, I think this is a good starter into issues gays have with the church. Here's some facts for anyone who cares about the struggles LGBT members face in the mormon church, and how that can dramatically effect their lives. The church is essentially telling these people not to be themselves and not to be happy, with one reasoning being that it's simply a 'trial', when thinking about "What science and biology have to say about this issue?", i.e looking at relevant studies, it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that the most universally accepted truth is that it's not a trial and some people are really just LGBT. Also while under threats of not being with your family forever or getting to the highest kingdom of heaven, etc. The church needs to stop teaching that homosexuality is a sin if it wants to have a chance of surviving in the 21st century. "The LDS Church could easily drop the religious myth elements of the organization...". I think this is another great point in the letter.

Some facts regarding suicide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MxCXjfAunk

Excellent, highly recommended testimony of a cute and well spoken gay exmo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6RBOvYDW4Y

I'm sure all of you are familiar with the song I'll Walk With You. I find it ironic while reading some of the posts here. Here's the lyrics:

If you don't walk as most people do,
Some people walk away from you,
But I won't! I won't!
If you don't talk as most people do,
Some people talk and laugh at you,
But I won't! I won't!
I'll walk with you. I'll talk with you.
That's how I'll show my love for you.
Jesus walked away from none.
He gave his love to ev'ryone.
So I will! I will!
Jesus blessed all he could see,
Then turned and said, "Come, follow me."
And I will! I will!
I will! I will!
I'll walk with you. I'll talk with you.
That's how I'll show my love for you.

I do think critically, but my thoughts in this case are critical of modern 21st Century cultural marxism and secular humanism of which homosexuality is a integral part of those belief systems. This type of thought of course is punished by the so-called "free-thinking" intellectual elite in western nations. But if you would like to continue to proselytize these leftist beleifs please continue, I enjoy the converation. There is no reason not to teach homosexuality is a sin when it pretty clearly is globally accepted as such. I find it hilarious you think non-acceptance of homosexuality will destroy the organization. So much for the tolerant left..."bend to our will or else". The truth is it's the modern left that will not survive the 21st Century, there is a growing far right political movement in western nations that is being fueled by the blatant hypocrisy and abuse of power by modern progressive leftists. I would advise you not think that's going to last forever and not to think you will be "on the right side of history" because there is no guarantee you or those with your ideology will be writing it.

Phantom wrote: ↑March 30th, 2019, 9:02 am 1. OP writes bogus Apostle letter, makes a website of it, registers a domain name anonymously.
2. Comes here to link it, saying it's interesting
3. Gets called out
4. Highlights a portion about homosexuality
5. Get predictable response
6. Feels empowered, pushes agenda
7. Grows audience through more absurdity
8. Fully engages in anti-LDS rhetoric

Mission accomplished. Stop giving credence to people like this. If they have to hide, lie, distort, etc to validate their positions they really have nothing to contribute. I'm shocked this type of crap is moderated better.

We discussed moderating this thread, but decided that the members of the forum were doing an absolutely wonderful job of responding and debunking and discussing.

Moderation is a tool for when things go wrong. The board has used this opportunity well to discuss the letter, concerns, doctrine, etc.