[ALLEGED] Current Mormon Apostate Apostle Confession letter

[innocentoldguy]

First of all, I believe this to be a total fabrication. Why? Because it is just a repackaging of tired anti-Mormon talking points. Even if it turns out to be a true statement, who cares? Nobody is infallible. We've had general authorities go apostate and fight against the church before. Yawn!

Second, I take umbrage with this argument, regardless of who utters it:

"Is God, as the creator, actually relegating those who claim to be gay--since birth--to a life of complete celibacy? If “man is that he might have joy,” then where is the joy of man to be found for such individuals? Did God make them this way? What do science and biology have to say about this issue?"

How pathetic of mind and reason do you have to be to fail to grasp the fact that we were ALL born with traits that, if left unchecked, will keep us out of God's kingdom? Why should gay people get a pass on immorality when the adulterers, polygamists, exhibitionists, pornographers, fornicators, and swingers do not? How does one take the phrase "man is that he might have joy," and arrive at the conclusion that joy is synonymous with sex? If the only joy one can find in life is in their pants, life must be pretty empty and meaningless. Christ didn't tell people to "get it on." He told us to take up our crosses and deny ourselves of all ungodliness. That includes gay people.

[Alaris]

With the fancy "Anyonymous for now" signature? lol

[[email protected]]

 "In the course of my research on same-sex attraction, I saw glimpses of the Church’s willful misrepresentation of its financial involvement with the passing of Proposition 8 in California in 2008--deceiving the IRS regarding tens of millions of taxable dollars (approximately $22 million) the Church spent to ensure passage of the ballot initiative. I began to see a lot of decisions being made which were knowingly deceptive, using the rationale that this is the will of God and therefore this is OK—an approach routinely exploited by Joseph Smith in the early Church known as “Bleeding the Beast,” or “Lying for the Lord.” This concept of “anything goes if it builds the kingdom of God,” seems to be a common rationale employed in nearly all religions, as I have observed in my studies."

LOL this is the most obvious proof its a fake, a bad one at that. You expect me to believe a member of the Quorum of the 12 had to do "research" in Proposition 8 and then they magically discovered it was "unethical" in some way as if Apostles are not already fully briefed on those kind of initiatives. One thing about these sick leftists is that they hate being humiliated politically. Its like shining sun light on a vampire. They sure get into a tizzy if you don't share their perverted views on sexuality. Proposition 8 was a great political victory, that fact that it was passed in leftist infested California of all places in a Democrat election year then so quickly overturned by the courts harmed the legitimacy of the whole gay movement and shined some light onto how corrupt politics are in this country.

[Toast]

First of all, I believe this to be a total fabrication. Why? Because it is just a repackaging of tired anti-Mormon talking points. Even if it turns out to be a true statement, who cares? Nobody is infallible. We've had general authorities go apostate and fight against the church before. Yawn!

Second, I take umbrage with this argument, regardless of who utters it:

"Is God, as the creator, actually relegating those who claim to be gay--since birth--to a life of complete celibacy? If “man is that he might have joy,” then where is the joy of man to be found for such individuals? Did God make them this way? What do science and biology have to say about this issue?"

How pathetic of mind and reason do you have to be to fail to grasp the fact that we were ALL born with traits that, if left unchecked, will keep us out of God's kingdom? Why should gay people get a pass on immorality when the adulterers, polygamists, exhibitionists, pornographers, fornicators, and swingers do not? How does one take the phrase "man is that he might have joy," and arrive at the conclusion that joy is synonymous with sex? If the only joy one can find in life is in their pants, life must be pretty empty and meaningless. Christ didn't tell people to "get it on." He told us to take up our crosses and deny ourselves of all ungodliness. That includes gay people.

Wow, I'm absolutely blown away.. People like you unwittingly influence gay youth to commit suicide. You disgust me.

[Michelle]

First of all, I believe this to be a total fabrication. Why? Because it is just a repackaging of tired anti-Mormon talking points. Even if it turns out to be a true statement, who cares? Nobody is infallible. We've had general authorities go apostate and fight against the church before. Yawn!

Second, I take umbrage with this argument, regardless of who utters it:

"Is God, as the creator, actually relegating those who claim to be gay--since birth--to a life of complete celibacy? If “man is that he might have joy,” then where is the joy of man to be found for such individuals? Did God make them this way? What do science and biology have to say about this issue?"

How pathetic of mind and reason do you have to be to fail to grasp the fact that we were ALL born with traits that, if left unchecked, will keep us out of God's kingdom? Why should gay people get a pass on immorality when the adulterers, polygamists, exhibitionists, pornographers, fornicators, and swingers do not? How does one take the phrase "man is that he might have joy," and arrive at the conclusion that joy is synonymous with sex? If the only joy one can find in life is in their pants, life must be pretty empty and meaningless. Christ didn't tell people to "get it on." He told us to take up our crosses and deny ourselves of all ungodliness. That includes gay people.

Wow, I'm absolutely blown away.. People like you unwittingly influence gay youth to commit suicide. You disgust me.

Hang on there Toast. You can argue about ideas, but no attacking an individual poster. That is against the rules.

[Chip]

When you start taking flak, you're usually over the target.

[Toast]

Hang on their Toast. You can argue about ideas, but no attacking an individual poster. That is against the rules.

Point taken, let me rephrase that, the idea in the remark is insensitive to people who are gay(5-14% of members). Isn't sex a big part of joy? Seems to me that the apostle was making a good point, but that is perhaps where our opinions may differ.

Additionally, the Apostle did not say joy was synonymous with sex. The Church does not even allow the relationship of marriage between people who are gay and love each other regardless of sex. Celibacy is more then just abstinence of sex, it is also the absence of a relationship like marriage with all the attendant features of love, affection, friendship, and sex.

[Fiannan]

I found this letter on another forum and I'm wondering what you guys think? This apostle will be leaving the church and lays out why in his letter. http://confessionofanapostle.org

So fake CNN would not even touch it.

[Chip]

Hang on their Toast. You can argue about ideas, but no attacking an individual poster. That is against the rules.

Point taken, let me rephrase that, the idea in the remark is insensitive to people who are gay(5-14% of members). Isn't sex a big part of joy? Seems to me that the apostle was making a good point, but that is perhaps where our opinions may differ.

5-14% of members are NOT anything other than heterosexual. I don't even think it reaches 2%. 14% is like 1 in 7, for Pete's sake! That's ridiculous.

You gave yourself away when you wrote, "You disgust me." That just shrieks LGBT outrage.

I don't know why you'd want to hang around the church, hoping it will change to accommodate sodomitical proclivities. Even if they bend, this would be a hollow victory, because your conscience will still convict you. Bullying others into thinking it's okay won't solve that problem, either. It could sure keep you busy, though.

[Robin Hood]

Clearly created by some saddo with nothing better to do.

[PressingForward]

Homosexuality is an abomination! It IS disgusting..........

[Toast]

First of all, I believe this to be a total fabrication. Why? Because it is just a repackaging of tired anti-Mormon talking points. Even if it turns out to be a true statement, who cares? Nobody is infallible. We've had general authorities go apostate and fight against the church before. Yawn!

Second, I take umbrage with this argument, regardless of who utters it:

"Is God, as the creator, actually relegating those who claim to be gay--since birth--to a life of complete celibacy? If “man is that he might have joy,” then where is the joy of man to be found for such individuals? Did God make them this way? What do science and biology have to say about this issue?"

How pathetic of mind and reason do you have to be to fail to grasp the fact that we were ALL born with traits that, if left unchecked, will keep us out of God's kingdom? Why should gay people get a pass on immorality when the adulterers, polygamists, exhibitionists, pornographers, fornicators, and swingers do not? How does one take the phrase "man is that he might have joy," and arrive at the conclusion that joy is synonymous with sex? If the only joy one can find in life is in their pants, life must be pretty empty and meaningless. Christ didn't tell people to "get it on." He told us to take up our crosses and deny ourselves of all ungodliness. That includes gay people.

Homosexuality is an abomination! It IS disgusting..........

Hang on their Toast. You can argue about ideas, but no attacking an individual poster. That is against the rules.

Point taken, let me rephrase that, the idea in the remark is insensitive to people who are gay(5-14% of members). Isn't sex a big part of joy? Seems to me that the apostle was making a good point, but that is perhaps where our opinions may differ.

5-14% of members are NOT anything other than heterosexual. I don't even think it reaches 2%. 14% is like 1 in 7, for Pete's sake! That's ridiculous.

You gave yourself away when you wrote, "You disgust me." That just shrieks LGBT outrage.

I don't know why you'd want to hang around the church, hoping it will change to accommodate sodomitical proclivities. Even if they bend, this would be a hollow victory, because your conscience will still convict you. Bullying others into thinking it's okay won't solve that problem, either. It could sure keep you busy, though.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MxCXjfAunk[/youtube]
Great youtube comment that sums it up.
"Holly Castillo
5 years ago
A lot of commenters still seem hooked on the fact that this "is wrong" so how dare he support it being an active Mormon? Whether being LGBT is wrong or not is not the point at all of this talk, it is the point that our intolerance and hate as a culture (Mormon culture, Christian culture, American culture, whatever culture you want to use) is causing death. This issue is causing individuals to come to such deep despair that they are committing suicide. As far as I remember, we are commanded (in every religion) to comfort those in need of comfort, and LOVE our neighbor. This is not about Bible thumping to prove whether or not LGBT persons are evil, it is about loving people like Christ did. And if you are choosing not to love people you find to be sinners, you are a worse sinner yourself. "

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6RBOvYDW4Y[/youtube]

[bbsion]

I think it was a waste of my time. Whomever wrote it had waaaaaay too much time on their hands. Absolutely no amount of play on words or logic can persuade me to not believe in God. This individual is lost and will one day bow before God and confess Jesus as The Christ.

[jsk]

Laughable...beyond absurd.

What is interesting and scary is that I was familiar with every argument in the letter by virtue of being a member of the LDS Freedom Forum. Maybe I need to spend more time in other pursuits.

[Chip]

First of all, I believe this to be a total fabrication. Why? Because it is just a repackaging of tired anti-Mormon talking points. Even if it turns out to be a true statement, who cares? Nobody is infallible. We've had general authorities go apostate and fight against the church before. Yawn!

Second, I take umbrage with this argument, regardless of who utters it:

"Is God, as the creator, actually relegating those who claim to be gay--since birth--to a life of complete celibacy? If “man is that he might have joy,” then where is the joy of man to be found for such individuals? Did God make them this way? What do science and biology have to say about this issue?"

How pathetic of mind and reason do you have to be to fail to grasp the fact that we were ALL born with traits that, if left unchecked, will keep us out of God's kingdom? Why should gay people get a pass on immorality when the adulterers, polygamists, exhibitionists, pornographers, fornicators, and swingers do not? How does one take the phrase "man is that he might have joy," and arrive at the conclusion that joy is synonymous with sex? If the only joy one can find in life is in their pants, life must be pretty empty and meaningless. Christ didn't tell people to "get it on." He told us to take up our crosses and deny ourselves of all ungodliness. That includes gay people.

Homosexuality is an abomination! It IS disgusting..........

Hang on their Toast. You can argue about ideas, but no attacking an individual poster. That is against the rules.

Point taken, let me rephrase that, the idea in the remark is insensitive to people who are gay(5-14% of members). Isn't sex a big part of joy? Seems to me that the apostle was making a good point, but that is perhaps where our opinions may differ.

5-14% of members are NOT anything other than heterosexual. I don't even think it reaches 2%. 14% is like 1 in 7, for Pete's sake! That's ridiculous.

You gave yourself away when you wrote, "You disgust me." That just shrieks LGBT outrage.

I don't know why you'd want to hang around the church, hoping it will change to accommodate sodomitical proclivities. Even if they bend, this would be a hollow victory, because your conscience will still convict you. Bullying others into thinking it's okay won't solve that problem, either. It could sure keep you busy, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MxCXjfAunk
Great youtube comment that sums it up.
"Holly Castillo
5 years ago
A lot of commenters still seem hooked on the fact that this "is wrong" so how dare he support it being an active Mormon? Whether being LGBT is wrong or not is not the point at all of this talk, it is the point that our intolerance and hate as a culture (Mormon culture, Christian culture, American culture, whatever culture you want to use) is causing death. This issue is causing individuals to come to such deep despair that they are committing suicide. As far as I remember, we are commanded (in every religion) to comfort those in need of comfort, and LOVE our neighbor. This is not about Bible thumping to prove whether or not LGBT persons are evil, it is about loving people like Christ did. And if you are choosing not to love people you find to be sinners, you are a worse sinner yourself. "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6RBOvYDW4Y

The problem, as I see it, isn't that some people want to engage in homosexuality and related -isms. That's their business. When they want to legally yoke other people with a mandate of support for their perversions, that's not cool. It's just compulsion of the sort Satan aims to inflict. Political homo-activism is straight from hell. It's undermining societal structure by codifying what is aberrant as more-than-equal to normalcy. Not cool. I see a huge glaring alignment between homosexual activism and the demonic. They demand everything bends to their way. And given power, their hostility towards normalcy would certainly harm people. Rather than worrying about whether you can get institutions to bend to your demands, you should consider what your disposition with God is going to be when the day soon comes that you'll die, as we all will. If you're going to engage in behavior that is condemning, according to the bible, you might as well not supercharge the offense by coercing others to support what is damnable. I'd think your case for receiving mercy will be much weaker in that circumstance.

[nvr]

At first, I had thought people with same-gender attraction all just had some terrible experience happen to them to warp their sense of attraction. Then I noticed how many homosexual men (and women) appear unhealthy in one way or another. I think it is likely that many of these men have low testosterone as a result of an underlying health problem ((likely poor gut health / leaky gut / gaps - number one cause of most ailments) . Low testosterone of course is a cause to not be attracted to women. This idea of not finding women appealing was not something I could ever understand coming from my own viewpoint, but considering health aspects, it makes a little more sense. I think many of these people likely also had a misguided experience earlier in their lives that may have been a significant influence to them.
On the freeway, I have a natural tendency to want to speed and rocket past other cars. But this is illegal and not safe to do so. The fact that I feel like I want to speed in traffic isn't that remarkable and shouldn't be encouraged. It likewise makes no sense to encourage members in regards to same-gender attraction. Following these attractions will not lead to lasting happiness as it does not fulfill God's intended purposes for us as men and women to marry and raise families with each fulfilling distinct father and mother roles. Men can find ways to regain health and increase their natural testosterone and both men and women can work through their issues with counseling, endure their trials and find happiness as they live the gospel.

[Toast]

Laughable...beyond absurd.

Yes, I agree completely, most people in the world would find this is laughable and beyond absurd!

[abijah]

Clearly created by some saddo with nothing better to do.

This.

Though not that saints should think apostles apostasizing is some impossible thing.

[Fiannan]

NVR, I am not sure about testosterone affecting male sexual preferences. Study after study demonstrates that gay men have low testosterone, medium and high, just as heterosexual men do. And when you administer steroids to a gay man his attraction to men increases and to a straight man his desires for females increases.

However, in regards to straight females if you administer steroids their attraction to men and women increases. Not that their desire to form a relationship goes up, just their sexual attraction to women. If you give steroids to lesbian women their desire to have more female sex increases. As for naturally occurring testosterone levels, if measured by the index to ring finger ratios, women with ring fingers equal in length or shorter to the index finger have higher estrogen levels, and long ring fingers indicate higher testosterone levels. There is a slight correlation with women with really long ring fingers having a higher level of lesbianism, but there are associated variables that might contribute to this. Slightly longer ring fingers have a tendency to be more bisexual. However, an important variable may be that such women (my wife has this) are generally found to be more attractive by both men and women. Maybe they just get more people of both genders flirting with them.

Of course less testosterone in males makes them less ambitious, less competitive and more compliant. Bet most male grade school teachers have lower testosterone levels than men who are stock brokers. And less testosterone in males is correlated with having left-wing political stands. That is what is most disturbing.

[iWriteStuff]

When you start taking flak, you're usually over the target.

I smell burnt Toast.

[GeeR]

There was a guy named Jonathan Streeter who wrote a letter like this impersonating a church figure and apologized for the church's stance on homosexuality a year or two back. I wouldn't be surprised if he's at it again. He's know as "thinker of thoughts". He has some ligitimate gripes with the church but homosexuality is not one of them.

[Robbinius]

LoL yeah this was awesome. I can just see Elders Holland or Bednar pouring over the works of Fawn Brodie or Hitchens like "oooh that's true! I never considered that before. Well my whole life has been a sham. Thanks for waking me up." Thanks Toast. This was a good one

[kittycat51]

Hang on their Toast. You can argue about ideas, but no attacking an individual poster. That is against the rules.

Seems to me that the apostle was making a good point...

Plain and simple; It wasn't an Apostle. IF it were true, this is not how they would go about it. Signed anonymous for now...yeah that's too funny.

[nightlight]

Hang on their Toast. You can argue about ideas, but no attacking an individual poster. That is against the rules.

Point taken, let me rephrase that, the idea in the remark is insensitive to people who are gay(5-14% of members). Isn't sex a big part of joy? Seems to me that the apostle was making a good point, but that is perhaps where our opinions may differ.

Additionally, the Apostle did not say joy was synonymous with sex. The Church does not even allow the relationship of marriage between people who are gay and love each other regardless of sex. Celibacy is more then just abstinence of sex, it is also the absence of a relationship like marriage with all the attendant features of love, affection, friendship, and sex.

Or....not lol

You don't understand you are a mark. Your views will never take with people who have ears, its obviously not of God. The fact you can't see this....marks you.....you are a mark, homie.

[Lizzy60]

Toast,
Do you believe that homosexual sex activity is sinful? Or, do you believe that if two men, or two women, are legally married (according to the law) that their sexual activity is not sinful?

First of all, I believe this to be a total fabrication. Why? Because it is just a repackaging of tired anti-Mormon talking points. Even if it turns out to be a true statement, who cares? Nobody is infallible. We've had general authorities go apostate and fight against the church before. Yawn!

Second, I take umbrage with this argument, regardless of who utters it:

"Is God, as the creator, actually relegating those who claim to be gay--since birth--to a life of complete celibacy? If “man is that he might have joy,” then where is the joy of man to be found for such individuals? Did God make them this way? What do science and biology have to say about this issue?"

How pathetic of mind and reason do you have to be to fail to grasp the fact that we were ALL born with traits that, if left unchecked, will keep us out of God's kingdom? Why should gay people get a pass on immorality when the adulterers, polygamists, exhibitionists, pornographers, fornicators, and swingers do not? How does one take the phrase "man is that he might have joy," and arrive at the conclusion that joy is synonymous with sex? If the only joy one can find in life is in their pants, life must be pretty empty and meaningless. Christ didn't tell people to "get it on." He told us to take up our crosses and deny ourselves of all ungodliness. That includes gay people.

Wow, I'm absolutely blown away.. People like you unwittingly influence gay youth to commit suicide. You disgust me.