LDS Freedom Forum

Chip wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:37 am

Toast wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 9:40 pm ...that means you hate people and your blinded by your heterosexual righteousness because you just go along with the popular thing, even though that hurts people, it's a hateful cruel thing to do. And to pretend that it's loving? That's evil.
...

Toast, you are fighting a useless battle. You're probably not going to admit it here, but you were likely abused in childhood by some man You've inherited his condition without any prospect of reward. If you could let go of the damage done, perhaps you could be released from this fruitless struggle. You'd be free to develop your talents and experience joy. God certainly has good things in store for you.

Nice try, but that never happened. I bet you only have the guts to make that suggestion to someone in an anonymous setting like this.

Thinker wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 9:34 am I posted facts, substantiated by nation-wide health reports and medical reports. When you reject that, it shows you reject truth.

I don't reject the facts of your sources, I accept those sources to be factual, but I vehemently reject your conclusions. I'd go as far as to say that you already had your conclusions before you went looking for any evidence that makes homosexuality seem risky, and therefor "hateful, harmful, abusive," etc.

I admit that in general there are higher risks involved. But with prep, research, STD testing, protection, and communication, like all people having sex should do, those risks become negligible/manageable. In my opinion after looking at the facts cited in your post, the only conclusion I come to is that extra care and thought should be used when doing those things and not that they shouldn't be done at all.

I suggest you look at and consider the overwhelming, undeniable evidence that homosexuals can love each other as much as any heterosexual partners. Here's some great places to start:
https://youtu.be/0MxCXjfAunk
https://youtu.be/_L9gxhReIoc
https://youtu.be/xZgIACujltE
https://youtu.be/g6RBOvYDW4Y

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 11:44 pm

Toast wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 9:40 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 7:32 pm

Toast wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 7:12 pm In other news, it looks like the Apostle's plan to "tarry a bit longer and influence the Church from within" may be working with the recent rollback of the 4 year old policy on LGBT.

Do you realize that based on US nation-wide health reports, homosexuality statistically proves to be harmful?
Not only does it have much higher rates of STDs, AIDS/HIV and anal cancer, also even with those relatively few men - who act out homosexuality, who are careful about using protection etc to not spread STDs - also have risks of anal fissures, colon rupture and bacterial infection.

Why would you encourage behavior KNOWN to be harmful??
Why?
Do you hate people so much? Are you blinded by your own homosexual issues?
Or do you want so much to be liked that you go along with the popular thing, even if it means hurting others?
I don't get it.

If you really loved people, you would never encourage behavior so undeniably known to be harmful.

• 2016, gay and bisexual men accounted for 82% of HIV diagnoses among males aged 13 and older.
  https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html

• In 2014, gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men accounted for 83% of primary and secondary syphilis cases where sex of sex partner was known in the United States.
  https://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/STD.htm

• Anal sex risks include anal fissures, colon rupture and bacterial infection, and especially in cases of STDs, anal cancer.
  *The anus lacks the natural lubrication the vagina has.
  *The tissue inside the anus is not as well protected as the skin outside the anus.
  *The anus was designed to hold in feces.
  *The anus is full of bacteria.
  https://www.webmd.com/sex/anal-sex-health-concerns

Why would anyone encourage homosexual behavior, when it's known to be harmful?
It seems to be a hateful, cruel thing to do.
To pretend that it's loving is even more deceptively evil.

The premise on which you base your argument that "homosexual behavior is statistically known to be harmful" is fallacy.

Again, the claim that anal sex causes anal cancer is false. However, the increased risk of HPV when having gay sex can cause cancer, just as it can in women as well. This has nothing to do with "gay sex" as it's a risk to all people/genders having sex. Therefor, your argument is misleading. Read more at: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/cau ... and-cancer

Over 90% of anal cancers are caused by HPV. The number of new cases and deaths from anal cancer are increasing each year.

also even with those relatively few men - who act out homosexuality, who are careful about using protection etc to not spread STDs - also have risks of anal fissures, colon rupture and bacterial infection.
...
Do you hate people so much? Are you blinded by your own homosexual issues?
Or do you want so much to be liked that you go along with the popular thing, even if it means hurting others?
...
It seems to be a hateful, cruel thing to do.
To pretend that it's loving is even more deceptively evil.

Women are at a higher risk of getting STDs then men. Using your quoted logic, that means you hate people and your blinded by your heterosexual righteousness because you just go along with the popular thing, even though that hurts people, it's a hateful cruel thing to do. And to pretend that it's loving? That's evil. [end quoted logic] Great argument! (big thumbs up) https://www.verywellhealth.com/can-i-ge ... -sex-49450

Most everything you do in life has risks and because something has slightly more risks then another, doesn't make it evil or wrong necessarily. The fallacy in your logic goes without saying.

The most serious risk those who practice gay sex expose themselves to is the risk of going to hell. Some of their behaviour will get them there sooner.

I don't think anybody should take the bible literally. Again, I agree with the apostle that "the church should drop the religious myth elements from the organization"

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:04 pm

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 11:44 pm

Toast wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 9:40 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 7:32 pm
Do you realize that based on US nation-wide health reports, homosexuality statistically proves to be harmful?
Not only does it have much higher rates of STDs, AIDS/HIV and anal cancer, also even with those relatively few men - who act out homosexuality, who are careful about using protection etc to not spread STDs - also have risks of anal fissures, colon rupture and bacterial infection.

Why would you encourage behavior KNOWN to be harmful??
Why?
Do you hate people so much? Are you blinded by your own homosexual issues?
Or do you want so much to be liked that you go along with the popular thing, even if it means hurting others?
I don't get it.

If you really loved people, you would never encourage behavior so undeniably known to be harmful.

• 2016, gay and bisexual men accounted for 82% of HIV diagnoses among males aged 13 and older.
  https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html

• In 2014, gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men accounted for 83% of primary and secondary syphilis cases where sex of sex partner was known in the United States.
  https://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/STD.htm

• Anal sex risks include anal fissures, colon rupture and bacterial infection, and especially in cases of STDs, anal cancer.
  *The anus lacks the natural lubrication the vagina has.
  *The tissue inside the anus is not as well protected as the skin outside the anus.
  *The anus was designed to hold in feces.
  *The anus is full of bacteria.
  https://www.webmd.com/sex/anal-sex-health-concerns

Why would anyone encourage homosexual behavior, when it's known to be harmful?
It seems to be a hateful, cruel thing to do.
To pretend that it's loving is even more deceptively evil.

The premise on which you base your argument that "homosexual behavior is statistically known to be harmful" is fallacy.

Again, the claim that anal sex causes anal cancer is false. However, the increased risk of HPV when having gay sex can cause cancer, just as it can in women as well. This has nothing to do with "gay sex" as it's a risk to all people/genders having sex. Therefor, your argument is misleading. Read more at: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/cau ... and-cancer

Over 90% of anal cancers are caused by HPV. The number of new cases and deaths from anal cancer are increasing each year.

also even with those relatively few men - who act out homosexuality, who are careful about using protection etc to not spread STDs - also have risks of anal fissures, colon rupture and bacterial infection.
...
Do you hate people so much? Are you blinded by your own homosexual issues?
Or do you want so much to be liked that you go along with the popular thing, even if it means hurting others?
...
It seems to be a hateful, cruel thing to do.
To pretend that it's loving is even more deceptively evil.

Women are at a higher risk of getting STDs then men. Using your quoted logic, that means you hate people and your blinded by your heterosexual righteousness because you just go along with the popular thing, even though that hurts people, it's a hateful cruel thing to do. And to pretend that it's loving? That's evil. [end quoted logic] Great argument! (big thumbs up) https://www.verywellhealth.com/can-i-ge ... -sex-49450

Most everything you do in life has risks and because something has slightly more risks then another, doesn't make it evil or wrong necessarily. The fallacy in your logic goes without saying.

The most serious risk those who practice gay sex expose themselves to is the risk of going to hell. Some of their behaviour will get them there sooner.

I don't think anybody should take the bible literally. Again, I agree with the apostle that "the church should drop the religious myth elements from the organization"

Oh the old “don’t take the Bible literally “ argument .How Convenient.

It makes sense for some people not to take the “eve came from Adams rib” literally and the “worldwide flood” and other Old Testament stories literally,
But for any Christian to take that line of thought and extend it to the New Testament and it’s teachings that came from Jesus Christ and his disciples is just looking for excuses to justify sin.

Just accept that you willingly accept and practice something that are sinful.

Everyone does it to some extent . Many wealthy Christians make excuses for their enormous wealth and refusal to help the poor. Many people make excuses for their lust.

It is what it is.

Stahura wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:08 pm

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:04 pm

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 11:44 pm

Toast wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 9:40 pm

The premise on which you base your argument that "homosexual behavior is statistically known to be harmful" is fallacy.

Again, the claim that anal sex causes anal cancer is false. However, the increased risk of HPV when having gay sex can cause cancer, just as it can in women as well. This has nothing to do with "gay sex" as it's a risk to all people/genders having sex. Therefor, your argument is misleading. Read more at: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/cau ... and-cancer

Women are at a higher risk of getting STDs then men. Using your quoted logic, that means you hate people and your blinded by your heterosexual righteousness because you just go along with the popular thing, even though that hurts people, it's a hateful cruel thing to do. And to pretend that it's loving? That's evil. [end quoted logic] Great argument! (big thumbs up) https://www.verywellhealth.com/can-i-ge ... -sex-49450

Most everything you do in life has risks and because something has slightly more risks then another, doesn't make it evil or wrong necessarily. The fallacy in your logic goes without saying.

The most serious risk those who practice gay sex expose themselves to is the risk of going to hell. Some of their behaviour will get them there sooner.

I don't think anybody should take the bible literally. Again, I agree with the apostle that "the church should drop the religious myth elements from the organization"

Oh the old “don’t take the Bible literally “ argument .How Convenient.

It makes sense for some people not to take the “eve came from Adams rib” literally and the “worldwide flood” and other Old Testament stories literally,
But for any Christian to take that line of thought and extend it to the New Testament and it’s teachings that came from Jesus Christ and his disciples is just looking for excuses to justify sin.

Just accept that you willingly accept and practice something that are sinful.

Everyone does it to some extent . Many wealthy Christians make excuses for their enormous wealth and refusal to help the poor. Many people make excuses for their lust.

It is what it is.

I appreciate your respectfulness and non-militant attitude. I'm still shocked at how rare that is here. Anyway, I still disagree that homosexuality is a sin. You say "Many wealthy Christians make excuses for their enormous wealth and refusal to help the poor.". So what is the Mormon church's excuse for pouring billions into extravagant temples and not doing more for the poor? And why is there no transparency in the churches financial records?

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:04 pm
I don't think anybody should take the bible literally. Again, I agree with the apostle that "the church should drop the religious myth elements from the organization"

What Apostle said this nonsense! Please supply the quote, unless of course it is your made up Apostle.....
Homosexuality is a sin. Period. End of discussion. Any other teaching is against
The Gospel.

So what is the Mormon church's excuse for pouring billions into extravagant temples and not doing more for the poor? And why is there no transparency in the churches financial records?

So getting tired of the same-sex issue and going after Church finances instead?

PressingForward wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:45 pm

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:04 pm
I don't think anybody should take the bible literally. Again, I agree with the apostle that "the church should drop the religious myth elements from the organization"

What Apostle said this nonsense! Please supply the quote, unless of course it is your made up Apostle.....
Homosexuality is a sin. Period. End of discussion. Any other teaching is against
The Gospel.

The Gospel is wrong.

The LDS Church could easily drop the religious myth elements of the organization with a single
announcement, and transition itself into a world-class global charity organization that takes in donations
and deploys service volunteers on a grand scale. Some ward buildings could be transformed into group
homes for handicapped or elderly, shelters for emergencies or the homeless, supply centers for charity,
or even recreation centers. The LDS Church would be well positioned to capitalize on its effective
13
leadership infrastructure to benefit all of humanity as a global charity organization by simply
acknowledging the fraud of its origins, and purging all the religious elements from the business it has
already become, clinging only to the highest ethics and secular human morality.

-Anonymous Apostle

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:48 pm

So what is the Mormon church's excuse for pouring billions into extravagant temples and not doing more for the poor? And why is there no transparency in the churches financial records?

So getting tired of the same-sex issue and going after Church finances instead?

I've said enough about the same-sex issue. If you have anything constructive to say about church finances go on right ahead.

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:48 pm

So what is the Mormon church's excuse for pouring billions into extravagant temples and not doing more for the poor? And why is there no transparency in the churches financial records?

So getting tired of the same-sex issue and going after Church finances instead?

Too bad, they took an illogical focus rather than considering factually undeniable issues that affect far more people.

Maybe this is due to the inconsistent double standard of postmodernist/neo-marxist dogma. Like they’re saying: “We care only about OUR people. The many more millions of the children killed in abortion or starvation are not as important as OUR ldbtlalala people.”

Toast,
Sin is that which is considered immoral, or wrong.
Homosexuality is wrong scientifically - as in counter to species survival.
Homosexuality is wrong socially: children are hurt when denied a mother or father.
Homosexuality is wrong spiritually - as in it degrades the temple (body) which God designed to house the spirit based on truth, goodness - health.
Homosexuality is wrong, scripturally - is clearly declared an abomination.

Sin, at the heart, is incorrect thought. Obviously, before acting, thoughts and then feelings work to motivate action. Christ taught that even lusting without action, is sin.

PressingForward wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:45 pm

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:04 pm
I don't think anybody should take the bible literally. Again, I agree with the apostle that "the church should drop the religious myth elements from the organization"

What Apostle said this nonsense! Please supply the quote, unless of course it is your made up Apostle.....
Homosexuality is a sin. Period. End of discussion. Any other teaching is against
The Gospel.

The Apostle he's citing is the phony one that wrote the letter.

Thinker wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:58 pm

Fiannan wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:48 pm

So what is the Mormon church's excuse for pouring billions into extravagant temples and not doing more for the poor? And why is there no transparency in the churches financial records?

So getting tired of the same-sex issue and going after Church finances instead?

Too bad, they took an illogical focus rather than considering factually undeniable issues that affect far more people.

Maybe this is due to the inconsistent double standard of postmodernist/neo-marxist dogma. Like they’re saying: “We care only about OUR people. The many more millions of the children killed in abortion or starvation are not as important as OUR ldbtlalala people.”

Too bad you're not willing to even consider looking at the overwhelming evidence that gays can be truly happy together. Have you met many people who are gay? You're so biased and unwilling to have a discussion about it that it sounds like you're just drunk on coolaid. I looked and considered the facts you presented and told you what I thought about them. Yet, you're not willing to look at anything I have to share and so I'm not going to entertain you.

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:34 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:08 pm

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:04 pm

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 11:44 pm

The most serious risk those who practice gay sex expose themselves to is the risk of going to hell. Some of their behaviour will get them there sooner.

I don't think anybody should take the bible literally. Again, I agree with the apostle that "the church should drop the religious myth elements from the organization"

Oh the old “don’t take the Bible literally “ argument .How Convenient.

It makes sense for some people not to take the “eve came from Adams rib” literally and the “worldwide flood” and other Old Testament stories literally,
But for any Christian to take that line of thought and extend it to the New Testament and it’s teachings that came from Jesus Christ and his disciples is just looking for excuses to justify sin.

Just accept that you willingly accept and practice something that are sinful.

Everyone does it to some extent . Many wealthy Christians make excuses for their enormous wealth and refusal to help the poor. Many people make excuses for their lust.

It is what it is.

I appreciate your respectfulness and non-militant attitude. I'm still shocked at how rare that is here. Anyway, I still disagree that homosexuality is a sin. You say "Many wealthy Christians make excuses for their enormous wealth and refusal to help the poor.". So what is the Mormon church's excuse for pouring billions into extravagant temples and not doing more for the poor? And why is there no transparency in the churches financial records?

I'm shocked too to be honest, not referring to this forum but everywhere throughout Christianity. I'm sorry for any rudeness and hate you've experienced, if there has been, throughout your life for your beliefs.

On one hand you have millions of Christians who are like Pharisees, they mock and judge while they themselves are prideful and envious and lustful in secret. On the other hand, you have millions of Christians who are openly prideful and envious and lustful but try to explain that it's not actually bad to be prideful envious and lustful. Neither of those "sides" is okay.

I have criticized the Church's charity myself. I think they should have helped the poor more, I disagree with city creek etc. I personally have no issue accepting hard truths. How about you?

If some person were to say to me that they understand that as a Christian they understand and believe that fornication is a sin but they choose to fornicate because they like it, I would respect that more than the poor attempts to justify and say that fornication isn't a sin at all. Willful ignorance bothers me. Our brains are powerful, they can literally create memories. You can make yourself believe something if you tell it to yourself enough, that doesn't make that thing any more or less true though.

I know you don't think homosexuality is a sin, you also don't think Fornication is a sin when the bible is very clear about it. The "Don't take it literally" can't apply here. So the condemnation of lust and fornication from the bible is just what? Fun stories?
If you aren't Christian, then I don't expect you to believe anything from the Bible. In which case I wouldn't bother spending any time on any tenets at all, my focus would be to invite you to Find and know Jesus Christ by spiritual experiences, because the Holy Ghost is very real and you can have experiences you've never thought possible, experiences that will teach you and convince you of things I could never hope to teach you . If youare a Christian, in my honest opinion I don't think you should call yourself a Christian.

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 12:04 pm

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 11:44 pm

Toast wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 9:40 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 7:32 pm
Do you realize that based on US nation-wide health reports, homosexuality statistically proves to be harmful?
Not only does it have much higher rates of STDs, AIDS/HIV and anal cancer, also even with those relatively few men - who act out homosexuality, who are careful about using protection etc to not spread STDs - also have risks of anal fissures, colon rupture and bacterial infection.

Why would you encourage behavior KNOWN to be harmful??
Why?
Do you hate people so much? Are you blinded by your own homosexual issues?
Or do you want so much to be liked that you go along with the popular thing, even if it means hurting others?
I don't get it.

If you really loved people, you would never encourage behavior so undeniably known to be harmful.

• 2016, gay and bisexual men accounted for 82% of HIV diagnoses among males aged 13 and older.
  https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html

• In 2014, gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men accounted for 83% of primary and secondary syphilis cases where sex of sex partner was known in the United States.
  https://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/STD.htm

• Anal sex risks include anal fissures, colon rupture and bacterial infection, and especially in cases of STDs, anal cancer.
  *The anus lacks the natural lubrication the vagina has.
  *The tissue inside the anus is not as well protected as the skin outside the anus.
  *The anus was designed to hold in feces.
  *The anus is full of bacteria.
  https://www.webmd.com/sex/anal-sex-health-concerns

Why would anyone encourage homosexual behavior, when it's known to be harmful?
It seems to be a hateful, cruel thing to do.
To pretend that it's loving is even more deceptively evil.

The premise on which you base your argument that "homosexual behavior is statistically known to be harmful" is fallacy.

Again, the claim that anal sex causes anal cancer is false. However, the increased risk of HPV when having gay sex can cause cancer, just as it can in women as well. This has nothing to do with "gay sex" as it's a risk to all people/genders having sex. Therefor, your argument is misleading. Read more at: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/cau ... and-cancer

Over 90% of anal cancers are caused by HPV. The number of new cases and deaths from anal cancer are increasing each year.

also even with those relatively few men - who act out homosexuality, who are careful about using protection etc to not spread STDs - also have risks of anal fissures, colon rupture and bacterial infection.
...
Do you hate people so much? Are you blinded by your own homosexual issues?
Or do you want so much to be liked that you go along with the popular thing, even if it means hurting others?
...
It seems to be a hateful, cruel thing to do.
To pretend that it's loving is even more deceptively evil.

Women are at a higher risk of getting STDs then men. Using your quoted logic, that means you hate people and your blinded by your heterosexual righteousness because you just go along with the popular thing, even though that hurts people, it's a hateful cruel thing to do. And to pretend that it's loving? That's evil. [end quoted logic] Great argument! (big thumbs up) https://www.verywellhealth.com/can-i-ge ... -sex-49450

Most everything you do in life has risks and because something has slightly more risks then another, doesn't make it evil or wrong necessarily. The fallacy in your logic goes without saying.

The most serious risk those who practice gay sex expose themselves to is the risk of going to hell. Some of their behaviour will get them there sooner.

I don't think anybody should take the bible literally. Again, I agree with the apostle that "the church should drop the religious myth elements from the organization"

"The apostle" is a myth.

Stahura wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 9:08 pm

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 8:49 pm

Stahura wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 8:46 pm

Thinker wrote: ↑April 4th, 2019, 7:32 pm
Do you realize that based on US nation-wide health reports, homosexuality statistically proves to be harmful?
Not only does it have much higher rates of STDs, AIDS/HIV and anal cancer, also even with those relatively few men - who act out homosexuality, who are careful about using protection etc to not spread STDs - also have risks of anal fissures, colon rupture and bacterial infection.

Why would you encourage behavior KNOWN to be harmful??
Why?
Do you hate people so much? Are you blinded by your own homosexual issues?
Or do you want so much to be liked that you go along with the popular thing, even if it means hurting others?
I don't get it.

If you really loved people, you would never encourage behavior so undeniably known to be harmful.

• 2016, gay and bisexual men accounted for 82% of HIV diagnoses among males aged 13 and older.
  https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html

• In 2014, gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men accounted for 83% of primary and secondary syphilis cases where sex of sex partner was known in the United States.
  https://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/STD.htm

• Anal sex risks include anal fissures, colon rupture and bacterial infection, and especially in cases of STDs, anal cancer.
  *The anus lacks the natural lubrication the vagina has.
  *The tissue inside the anus is not as well protected as the skin outside the anus.
  *The anus was designed to hold in feces.
  *The anus is full of bacteria.
  https://www.webmd.com/sex/anal-sex-health-concerns

Why would anyone encourage homosexual behavior, when it's known to be harmful?
It seems to be a hateful, cruel thing to do.
To pretend that it's loving is even more deceptively evil.

Request for Brian to narrow areas where this can be discussed to just outer darkness .save us

Because you can't stand the truth?

Haha what the freak dude. Are you Jack Nicholson? Have you even read my comments? Homosexuality is not okay in my book , maybe you're reading an LDSFF thread from an alternate reality bud. I mean you're convinced I'm a female so perhaps you'll forever and Inexplicably be convinced I'm pro homosexuality as well.
This topic is disgusting and it continually derails from the thread. Save us Brian.

Why do I bring it up?

Because it is very similar to abortion. Abortion can potentially sound great when it's spoken of in certain terms, "a woman's right to choose", it's not a baby, it's a zygote or a clump of cells.

Yet it's upon seeing exactly what it is that people come to understand just how horrific it is.

As much as you don't like it, as much as I don't like it-one MUST talk about this just like abortion. Until you understand that to abort a child, they rip the child apart limb from limb as it tries to get away, it doesn't have the same impact.

Stahura, yes, I am willing to accept hard truths. Believe it or not, I'm open to changing my mind given compelling evidence etc. However, nobody here has come close to changing my mind. The only relevant "evidence" presented here against homosexuality is from the bible and book of Mormon. I was born and raised Mormon, and resigned after my 18th birthday for many reasons. I'm not a christian or religious. I believe that Joseph Smith was a fraud, and that the book of Mormon is not real. I put no stock in the bible either. So when someone tells me that being gay is a sin because it's an abomination of god, that's laughable to me as I don't believe the BOM or Bible to be anything more then a fairy tail. When someone tells me it's "abusive, hateful, a sin, wrong" etc, because of some associated risks with gay sex, I think that's just a misleading attempt to try to show that statistics are on their side, when science, statistics, and facts really overwhelmingly prove the opposite. Any kind of sex has risks. What I do know from first hand experience, is that many gays do have successful, happy, and healthy relationships that's no different then church model heterosexual ones. I believe that the LDS church is responsible for many youth suicides because it does not recognize that you can't change sexual orientation of people, and essentially shames them to death for it because they do not fit the mold.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 1:49 pm "The apostle" is a myth.

I would say to you that the book of Mormon is a myth, but without any constructive arguments and discussion, the claim would be meaningless wouldn't it.

dezNatDefender wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 2:55 pm Why do I bring it up?

Because it is very similar to abortion. Abortion can potentially sound great when it's spoken of in certain terms, "a woman's right to choose", it's not a baby, it's a zygote or a clump of cells.

Yet it's upon seeing exactly what it is that people come to understand just how horrific it is.

As much as you don't like it, as much as I don't like it-one MUST talk about this just like abortion. Until you understand that to abort a child, they rip the child apart limb from limb as it tries to get away, it doesn't have the same impact.

I would assume that you think millions of sperm dying isn't horrific or wrong. Do you think a single unfertilized egg dying is wrong? What about killing a fertilized egg after it's only made a few cells? Where do you draw the line?

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 2:58 pm Stahura, yes, I am willing to accept hard truths. Believe it or not, I'm open to changing my mind given compelling evidence etc. However, nobody here has come close to changing my mind. The only relevant "evidence" presented here against homosexuality is from the bible and book of Mormon. I was born and raised Mormon, and resigned after my 18th birthday for many reasons. I'm not a christian or religious. I believe that Joseph Smith was a fraud, and that the book of Mormon is not real. I put no stock in the bible either. So when someone tells me that being gay is a sin because it's an abomination of god, that's laughable to me as I don't believe the BOM or Bible to be anything more then a fairy tail. When someone tells me it's "abusive, hateful, a sin, wrong" etc, because of some associated risks with gay sex, I think that's just a misleading attempt to try to show that statistics are on their side, when science, statistics, and facts really overwhelmingly prove the opposite.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 1:49 pm "The apostle" is a myth.

I would say to you that the book of Mormon is a myth, but without any constructive arguments and discussion, the claim would be meaningless.

The letter you quoted in the OP is clearly not by an apostle. Therefore your quote attributed to "the apostle" was clearly a myth.
Initially I was surprised you needed to have that explained to you, but on reflection I'm not.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 3:04 pm

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 2:58 pm Stahura, yes, I am willing to accept hard truths. Believe it or not, I'm open to changing my mind given compelling evidence etc. However, nobody here has come close to changing my mind. The only relevant "evidence" presented here against homosexuality is from the bible and book of Mormon. I was born and raised Mormon, and resigned after my 18th birthday for many reasons. I'm not a christian or religious. I believe that Joseph Smith was a fraud, and that the book of Mormon is not real. I put no stock in the bible either. So when someone tells me that being gay is a sin because it's an abomination of god, that's laughable to me as I don't believe the BOM or Bible to be anything more then a fairy tail. When someone tells me it's "abusive, hateful, a sin, wrong" etc, because of some associated risks with gay sex, I think that's just a misleading attempt to try to show that statistics are on their side, when science, statistics, and facts really overwhelmingly prove the opposite.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 1:49 pm "The apostle" is a myth.

I would say to you that the book of Mormon is a myth, but without any constructive arguments and discussion, the claim would be meaningless.

The letter you quoted in the OP is clearly not by an apostle. Therefore your quote attributed to "the apostle" was clearly a myth.
Initially I was surprised you needed to have that explained to you, but on reflection I'm not.

I hope it is real because the things the Apostle talked about in the letter were very compelling, and I think he would do much good if he stayed in the church making changes from within.

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 3:14 pm

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 3:04 pm

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 2:58 pm Stahura, yes, I am willing to accept hard truths. Believe it or not, I'm open to changing my mind given compelling evidence etc. However, nobody here has come close to changing my mind. The only relevant "evidence" presented here against homosexuality is from the bible and book of Mormon. I was born and raised Mormon, and resigned after my 18th birthday for many reasons. I'm not a christian or religious. I believe that Joseph Smith was a fraud, and that the book of Mormon is not real. I put no stock in the bible either. So when someone tells me that being gay is a sin because it's an abomination of god, that's laughable to me as I don't believe the BOM or Bible to be anything more then a fairy tail. When someone tells me it's "abusive, hateful, a sin, wrong" etc, because of some associated risks with gay sex, I think that's just a misleading attempt to try to show that statistics are on their side, when science, statistics, and facts really overwhelmingly prove the opposite.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 1:49 pm "The apostle" is a myth.

I would say to you that the book of Mormon is a myth, but without any constructive arguments and discussion, the claim would be meaningless.

The letter you quoted in the OP is clearly not by an apostle. Therefore your quote attributed to "the apostle" was clearly a myth.
Initially I was surprised you needed to have that explained to you, but on reflection I'm not.

I hope it is real because the things the Apostle talked about in the letter were very compelling, and I think he would do much good if he stayed in the church making changes from within.

Come on Toast, use a bit of commonsense! Of course it's not real, not even close.
Anyone with a functioning brain cell can see that.

Toast wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 2:58 pm Stahura, yes, I am willing to accept hard truths. Believe it or not, I'm open to changing my mind given compelling evidence etc. However, nobody here has come close to changing my mind. The only relevant "evidence" presented here against homosexuality is from the bible and book of Mormon. I was born and raised Mormon, and resigned after my 18th birthday for many reasons. I'm not a christian or religious. I believe that Joseph Smith was a fraud, and that the book of Mormon is not real. I put no stock in the bible either. So when someone tells me that being gay is a sin because it's an abomination of god, that's laughable to me as I don't believe the BOM or Bible to be anything more then a fairy tail. When someone tells me it's "abusive, hateful, a sin, wrong" etc, because of some associated risks with gay sex, I think that's just a misleading attempt to try to show that statistics are on their side, when science, statistics, and facts really overwhelmingly prove the opposite.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 5th, 2019, 1:49 pm "The apostle" is a myth.

I would say to you that the book of Mormon is a myth, but without any constructive arguments and discussion, the claim would be meaningless.

Great, this information makes this easy. You’ll never find the evidence, it’s not out there. It’s fruitless to talk to a Christian about sin when you don’t believe in it yourself, neither side will budge.

I can tell you that after a period of not practicing any religion I decided to pray to God for help, I was suicidal, I did many things that I was always taught I should not do andeverything was falling apart.

There I was on the ground crying like a child, begging God to comfort me, telling him I did not be alone. After 10-15 minutes , this warmth, as if it were fire , seemed to envelop me, starting at my head and going over my body to me hands and toes. It consumed me inside as well, and it felt as if something, someone were embracing me from behind. Instantly I felt only joy, I felt no more remorse , and I started crying of happiness.

My desire to look at women in lust had disappeared, I had this sudden inexplicable desire to read the Book of Mormon and Bible.
This lead me to eventually go on my mission where I had this exact same experience two more times which in turn led to other things that I won’t mention here.

Post-mission I’ve also had incredible experiences.

I have no large attachment to the church, all I can tell you is that God exists and that Jesus is my Savior because literally the moment I said “Jesus thou Son of God, have mercy on me” was the moment I was consumed in fire and charity. Where before I felt guilt for my sins, i received an understanding that they were swept clean. I was Born Of God, I truly received the Holy Ghost that I previously thought I received when I was confirmed(a misconception many Mormons have)

I couldn’t hope to convince you of anything when your mind is made up. I know it was the same for me. It didn’t matter what anyone said. I get it.

At least just take this invitation:

If at some point in your life you are at your lowest, remember this conversation and give God a chance. Don’t worry about the Bible, the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, whatever. Just give Jesus Christ a chance. You will discover that he exists , he really does, and that experience will tell you anything else you need to know and believe.You don’t need to depend on the words of others , you don’t need to forever look for evidence, you’ll have your own personal change of heart that you never could have done on your own. You can’t understand until you experience what I(and others, though I wish there were more) have experienced .

God bless, I wish the best for you friend.

Locking this thread. A new one can be started when the alleged "current Mormon Apostate Apostle" makes himself/herself/itself known.