[ALLEGED] Current Mormon Apostate Apostle Confession letter

[Toast]

1. OP writes bogus Apostle letter, makes a website of it, registers a domain name anonymously.
2. Comes here to link it, saying it's interesting
3. Gets called out
4. Highlights a portion about homosexuality
5. Get predictable response
6. Feels empowered, pushes agenda
7. Grows audience through more absurdity
8. Fully engages in anti-LDS rhetoric

Mission accomplished. Stop giving credence to people like this. If they have to hide, lie, distort, etc to validate their positions they really have nothing to contribute. I'm shocked this type of crap is moderated better.

1. I'm flattered that you would think I could have written this Apostle letter. I find it fascinating. I'm not that ambitious nor capable of writing that well. But thanks.
2. I thought forums exist for sharing and questioning. I have gained great insight from some of you here, and on the other threads.
3. What am I getting called out for, beyond the call to repentance? "Let him without sin cast the first stone", right?
4. nvr raised the issue of homosexuality, not me.
5. Got me there I guess.
6. What agenda? Love one another? Excuse me (slowly backs away from grizzly bear)
7. The absurdity may be growing in the audience, not me. I am just expressing an opinion in response to questions. I'd really rather hear about the issues in the letter and not defend personal attacks regarding my own status.
8. I am not engaging in anti-lds rhetoric. If you perceive my opinions as anti-lds, then maybe you are afraid of your own shadow. I love all people and am not anti-lds, anti-catholic, or anti-muslim. All these people are generally good in my experience. Their ideas and beliefs are a different matter. I came here to get thoughts on the ideas presented in the letter.

[dezNatDefender]

So you enjoy abusing another man and enjoy being abused by another man?

And that is what homosexual sex is; it is anything but actual love. It is abuse; to ab-use something is to use something in a way in which it was not intended or made for. That is exactly what homosexual sex is-abuse.

Abuse is not love-it is hatred. Homosexual sex isn't love-it is hatred; hatred of self, hatred of others and hatred for what God has made and intended it for.

If God didn't want people to have anal sex, then he wouldn't have made a prostate.



Stupid comments get stupid responses

Clearly you don't know much about anatomy or the biological functions of the human body.
The prostate is the gland which produces the fluids for men; no prostate=no fluids=no sex. Additionally the prostate which active during sex cuts off the ability to pee, so one cannot have sex and pee at the same time. That is it's natural function.

Just because one can stick something up your rear and tickle the prostate to make it "feel good"-which to me is insane b/c any man who has had a prostate exam knows it ain't fun, doesn't make it natural or the natural use.

Things go out the rear not in the rear and that simply b/c of the position of the prostate you can get to it from the rear in no way validates your sick claim.

In fact, their are plenty of very serious medical issues with repeatedly sticking things up the rear. Fecal matter for one, which unlike urine (which is mostly sterile- simply by the fact that in a pinch you can drink it! to re-hydrate) is full of bacteria, and disease. Seriously sticking your reproductive organ in an orfice which is full of crap, bacteria, disease, etc. Is in a sub-conscious way wanting to destroy your reproductive organ. Then there is the matter of anal leakage-which occurs after repeated usage of shoving things up where they don't believe, your rear is literally destroyed. Anal cancer; anal leakage, etc.

All of those things are very real abuse, you are either allowing someone to do these things to you or doing it to someone else; it is absolutely abuse.

You claim you are a woman . . . I'm not confident this is accurate.

Apologies for the graphic nature-but you got to call it out.

[dezNatDefender]

1. OP writes bogus Apostle letter, makes a website of it, registers a domain name anonymously.
2. Comes here to link it, saying it's interesting
3. Gets called out
4. Highlights a portion about homosexuality
5. Get predictable response
6. Feels empowered, pushes agenda
7. Grows audience through more absurdity
8. Fully engages in anti-LDS rhetoric

Mission accomplished. Stop giving credence to people like this. If they have to hide, lie, distort, etc to validate their positions they really have nothing to contribute. I'm shocked this type of crap is moderated better.

6. What agenda? Love one another? Excuse me (slowly backs away from grizzly bear)

Men physically abusing men and by their actions causing physical damage to their bodies (which is what they are doing when they commit soddomitic acts) is anything but love.

And anyone who endorses this type of behavior is either a patsy or is openly advocating for individuals to hurt each other.

[Toast]

Clearly you don't know much about anatomy or the biological functions of the human body.
The prostate is the gland which produces the fluids for men; no prostate=no fluids=no sex. Additionally the prostate which active during sex cuts off the ability to pee, so one cannot have sex and pee at the same time. That is it's natural function.

Just because one can stick something up your rear and tickle the prostate to make it "feel good"-which to me is insane b/c any man who has had a prostate exam knows it ain't fun, doesn't make it natural or the natural use.

Things go out the rear not in the rear and that simply b/c of the position of the prostate you can get to it from the rear in no way validates your sick claim.

In fact, their are plenty of very serious medical issues with repeatedly sticking things up the rear. Fecal matter for one, which unlike urine (which is mostly sterile- simply by the fact that in a pinch you can drink it! to re-hydrate) is full of bacteria, and disease. Seriously sticking your reproductive organ in an orfice which is full of crap, bacteria, disease, etc. Is in a sub-conscious way wanting to destroy your reproductive organ. Then there is the matter of anal leakage-which occurs after repeated usage of shoving things up where they don't believe, your rear is literally destroyed. Anal cancer; anal leakage, etc.

All of those things are very real abuse, you are either allowing someone to do these things to you or doing it to someone else; it is absolutely abuse.

You claim you are a woman . . . I'm not confident this is accurate.

Apologies for the graphic nature-but you got to call it out.

Clearly you don't know much about cancer or gay sex. You don't tickle the prostate, you stimulate the prostate, which many people, including heterosexual couples, thoroughly enjoy during sexual activities as it can enhance the pleasure. If you're grossed out by fecal matter, you should know that you or your partner have many options of 'cleaning prep' beforehand to avoid that. There is also the option of using a condom. Your assertion that anal sex causes cancer is false. Anal sex does not cause anal cancer.

Also, you said that "allowing someone to do these things to you or doing it to someone else; it is absolutely abuse." That statement contradicts itself, because to consent and allow someone to have sex with you, is not abusive in nature.

Men physically abusing men and by their actions causing physical damage to their bodies (which is what they are doing when they commit soddomitic acts) is anything but love.

And anyone who endorses this type of behavior is either a patsy or is openly advocating for individuals to hurt each other.

You claim that gay sex causes physical damage to the body and is anything but love. I have three things to say to your claim of physical damage, lube, lube, and more lube. Also by listening and communicating with your partner during sex as to not hurt them because you care and love them, but that goes without saying. I firmly disagree with your claim that gay people can't have sex out of love. Why? Because gay people do in fact have sex out of love all the time, and your narrow-minded claim of the contrary can't change that.

[dezNatDefender]

Clearly you don't know much about anatomy or the biological functions of the human body.
The prostate is the gland which produces the fluids for men; no prostate=no fluids=no sex. Additionally the prostate which active during sex cuts off the ability to pee, so one cannot have sex and pee at the same time. That is it's natural function.

Just because one can stick something up your rear and tickle the prostate to make it "feel good"-which to me is insane b/c any man who has had a prostate exam knows it ain't fun, doesn't make it natural or the natural use.

Things go out the rear not in the rear and that simply b/c of the position of the prostate you can get to it from the rear in no way validates your sick claim.

In fact, their are plenty of very serious medical issues with repeatedly sticking things up the rear. Fecal matter for one, which unlike urine (which is mostly sterile- simply by the fact that in a pinch you can drink it! to re-hydrate) is full of bacteria, and disease. Seriously sticking your reproductive organ in an orfice which is full of crap, bacteria, disease, etc. Is in a sub-conscious way wanting to destroy your reproductive organ. Then there is the matter of anal leakage-which occurs after repeated usage of shoving things up where they don't believe, your rear is literally destroyed. Anal cancer; anal leakage, etc.

All of those things are very real abuse, you are either allowing someone to do these things to you or doing it to someone else; it is absolutely abuse.

You claim you are a woman . . . I'm not confident this is accurate.

Apologies for the graphic nature-but you got to call it out.

Clearly you don't know much about cancer or gay sex. You don't tickle the prostate, you stimulate the prostate, which many people, including heterosexual couples, thoroughly enjoy during sexual activities as it can enhance the pleasure. If you're grossed out by fecal matter, you should know that you or your partner have many options of 'cleaning prep' beforehand to avoid that. There is also the option of using a condom. Your assertion that anal sex causes cancer is false. Anal sex does not cause anal cancer.

Also, you said that "allowing someone to do these things to you or doing it to someone else; it is absolutely abuse." That statement contradicts itself, because to consent and allow someone to have sex with you, is not abusive in nature.

Men physically abusing men and by their actions causing physical damage to their bodies (which is what they are doing when they commit soddomitic acts) is anything but love.

And anyone who endorses this type of behavior is either a patsy or is openly advocating for individuals to hurt each other.

You claim that gay sex causes physical damage to the body and is anything but love. I have three things to say to your claim of physical damage, lube, lube, and more lube. Also by listening and communicating with your partner during sex as to not hurt them because you care and love them, but that goes without saying. I firmly disagree with your claim that gay people can't have sex out of love. Why? Because gay people do in fact have sex out of love all the time, and your narrow-minded claim of the contrary can't change that.

Keep digging that hole. You only further solidify my opinions of homosexuals!

[Toast]

Much has been made of youth interviews with protests, and a hunger strike by Sam Young, which I assume the letter was addressing. What's everyone's take on the importance of closed door one on one worthiness interviews, where bishops could ask minors about their sexuality, etc?

[Lizzy60]

Much has been made of youth interviews with protests, and a hunger strike by Sam Young, which I assume the letter was addressing. What's everyone's take on the importance of closed door one on one worthiness interviews, where bishops could ask minors about their sexuality, etc?

My opinion:
No bishop, or any other man who is not the child's parent, should ever ask a minor anything about sexuality. And behind a closed door? That's insane.

[Zathura]

Much has been made of youth interviews with protests, and a hunger strike by Sam Young, which I assume the letter was addressing. What's everyone's take on the importance of closed door one on one worthiness interviews, where bishops could ask minors about their sexuality, etc?

It’s one thing to ask youth if they are obeying the law of Chastity as taught in the Bible and Book of Mormon.

The problem is when creepy old Bishops start asking specifics . “How long” “where” “when” “how many times” etc. this isn’t okay, it’s not relevant or important.

They misunderstand repentance in the same way many people misunderstand other topics taught in the scriptures .

[iWriteStuff]

So you enjoy abusing another man and enjoy being abused by another man?

And that is what homosexual sex is; it is anything but actual love. It is abuse; to ab-use something is to use something in a way in which it was not intended or made for. That is exactly what homosexual sex is-abuse.

Abuse is not love-it is hatred. Homosexual sex isn't love-it is hatred; hatred of self, hatred of others and hatred for what God has made and intended it for.

If God didn't want people to have anal sex, then he wouldn't have made a prostate.



Stupid comments get stupid responses

Two things:

1) Let's all attempt a wee bit more civility.
2) If y'all seriously wanna debate the logistics and mechanics of anal sex, please do it somewhere else. I'm sure you could find a supportive forum for such "practical" debate, but this isn't one of them.

Have a nice day!

[Toast]

Two things:

1) Let's all attempt a wee bit more civility.
2) If y'all seriously wanna debate the logistics and mechanics of anal sex, please do it somewhere else. I'm sure you could find a supportive forum for such "practical" debate, but this isn't one of them.

Have a nice day!

Yes, thanks for pointing this out. I agree we need to be civil, that's why we're already getting back on topic.

[harakim]

And the battle continues. Wickedness striving to become accepted.....
Jesus walked in Sodom and Gommorah, or at the very least sent a couple of His trusted Angel's to survey the place and decided to burn them up. And why? Because one of the "sins of Sodom" was, well, as we refer today, "sodomy". As far as them committing suicide today, well there never was true happiness in sin, be it theft, murder, adultery, sodomy, abortion, pedophilia, rape, etc. etc. etc....
Rather than demanding that all descend down to the level of Sodom and Gommorah and bring the wrath of an Offended God upon us, why not humble ourselves and repent of all our wickedness before it's to late.....

Regarding your comment about suicide, no simpleton, you got it backwards. Don't take suicide lightly, that's unacceptable to be dismissive of people ending their own life, even mormons would find your comment unacceptable. They're not unhappy because it's a sin, they're unhappy because the church ostracizes and punishes them by planting the idea that it's a sin. They want them to believe that it's wrong and that brings on guilt and physiological instability. Being LGBT is not wrong, it's not a sin, it's not a trial, it's who you are. On the bright side, let us all thank God that LGBT acceptance is growing far faster then old dying fraudulent homophobic mythology.

why not humble ourselves and repent of all our wickedness before it's to late

Because it's like I said before, if God didn't want man to have anal sex, he wouldn't have created prostates.

If God didn't want us to take opiates, he wouldn't have created dopamine receptors.

[I AM]

Toast (you've been very B U S Y )
you said
"So I set out into enemy territory to learn about Satan’s tactics—to study his playbook and beat him at his own game."

Are you sure you didn't join him ?
*** see "SATAN'S MEETING" (below)
-------------------------------------------------------

first you try to discredit Joseph Smith
and move on to
" black race"
"temple ceremony "
" Free Masonry"
"Joseph’s forming secretive ceremonies in the temple"
"nine very different versions of The First Vision that Joseph claimed to have had"
"the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage"
"with the Church defining marriage as that of “one man to one woman,”
"the Church’s position regarding same-sex attraction and gay marriage which appears hypocritical"

and continue with


"I have learned unequivocally, that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not true!

I have learned that The Book of Mormon is not authentic in its claimed origins and is not a historic tale of any peoples in the Americas, as Joseph Smith claimed.

The Book of Mormon was not translated from Gold Plates using a so-called Urim and Thummim, or even a Peep Stone in a hat for that matter.
The revelations found in the Mormon scripture, the Doctrine and Covenants, are not true.

They represent a framework of well-known religious concepts, ideas, and other convenient superstitions of the times which can all be branded as fraudulent, as they were knowingly borrowed, plagiarized, or invented by Joseph Smith and associates."

and on and on

"After dedicating many years and personal man-hours engaged in prayer, I have come to the conclusion that prayer… is a sham. Prayer creates false hopes and deflects people from doing that which might actually help others, by passing it off to an imaginary being to do the work".

----------------------------
***
SATAN'S MEETING


SATAN'S MEETING: (Read even if you're B U S Y )

Satan called a worldwide convention of demons.
In his opening address he said,

"We can't keep Christians from going to church."
"We can't keep them from reading their Bibles and knowing the truth."
"We can't even keep them from forming an intimate relationship with their savior."
"Once they gain that connection with Jesus, our power over them is broken."
"So let them go to their churches; let them have their covered dish dinners, BUT steal their time,
so they don't have time to develop a relationship with Jesus Christ.."

"This is what I want you to do," said the devil:
"Distract them from gaining hold of their Savior and maintaining that vital connection throughout their day!"
"How shall we do this?" his demons shouted.
"Keep them busy in the non-essentials of life and invent innumerable schemes
to occupy their minds," he answered.
"Tempt them to spend, spend, spend, and borrow, borrow, borrow."
"Persuade the wives to go to work for long hours and the husbands
to work 6-7 days each week, 10-12 hours a day, so they can afford their empty lifestyles."
"Keep them from spending time with their children."
"As their families fragment, soon, their homes will offer no escape from the pressures of work!"
"Over-stimulate their minds so that they cannot hear that still, small voice."
"Entice them to play the radio or CD whenever they drive."
"Keep the TV, CDs and their music, and their phones and PCs going constantly in their home
and see to it that every store and restaurant in the world plays non-spiritual music constantly."

"This will jam their minds and break that union with Christ."

"Fill the coffee tables with magazines and newspapers."
"Pound their minds with the news 24 hours a day."
"Invade their driving moments with billboards."
"Flood their mailboxes with junk mail, mail order catalogs, sweepstakes, and every kind of newsletter and promotional offering free products, services and false hopes.."
"Keep skinny, beautiful models on the magazines and TV so their husbands will believe that outward beauty is what's important, and they'll become dissatisfied with their wives. "
"Keep the wives too tired to love their husbands at night." "Give them headaches too! "
"If they don't give their husbands the love they need, they will begin to look elsewhere."
"That will fragment their families quickly!"
"Give them Santa Claus to distract them from teaching their children the real meaning of Christmas."
"Give them an Easter bunny so they won't talk about his resurrection and power over sin and death."
"Even in their recreation, let them be excessive."
"Have them return from their recreation exhausted."
"Keep them too busy to go out in nature and reflect on God's creation."
Send them to amusement parks, sporting events, plays, concerts, and movies instead."
"Keep them busy, busy, busy!"

"And when they meet for church, involve them in gossip and small talk
so that they leave with troubled consciences."
"Crowd their lives with so many good causes they have no time to seek power from Jesus."
"Soon they will be working in their own strength, sacrificing their health and family
for the good of the cause."

"It will work!"

"It will work!"

It was quite a plan!

The demons went eagerly to their assignments causing Christians everywhere to get busier
and more rushed, going here and there.
Having little time for their God or their families and friends.
Having no time to tell others about the power of Jesus to change lives.

I guess the question is, has the devil been successful in his schemes?

You be the judge!!!!!

Does "B U S Y" mean:
B-eing U-nder S-atan's Y-oke?

[Toast]

Toast (you've been very B U S Y )
you said
"So I set out into enemy territory to learn about Satan’s tactics—to study his playbook and beat him at his own game."

Are you sure you didn't join him ?
*** see "SATAN'S MEETING" (below)
-------------------------------------------------------

first you try to discredit Joseph Smith
and move on to
" black race"
"temple ceremony "
" Free Masonry"
"Joseph’s forming secretive ceremonies in the temple"
"nine very different versions of The First Vision that Joseph claimed to have had"
"the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage"
"with the Church defining marriage as that of “one man to one woman,”
"the Church’s position regarding same-sex attraction and gay marriage which appears hypocritical"

and continue with


"I have learned unequivocally, that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not true!

I have learned that The Book of Mormon is not authentic in its claimed origins and is not a historic tale of any peoples in the Americas, as Joseph Smith claimed.

The Book of Mormon was not translated from Gold Plates using a so-called Urim and Thummim, or even a Peep Stone in a hat for that matter.
The revelations found in the Mormon scripture, the Doctrine and Covenants, are not true.

They represent a framework of well-known religious concepts, ideas, and other convenient superstitions of the times which can all be branded as fraudulent, as they were knowingly borrowed, plagiarized, or invented by Joseph Smith and associates."

and on and on

"After dedicating many years and personal man-hours engaged in prayer, I have come to the conclusion that prayer… is a sham. Prayer creates false hopes and deflects people from doing that which might actually help others, by passing it off to an imaginary being to do the work".

----------------------------
***
SATAN'S MEETING


SATAN'S MEETING: (Read even if you're B U S Y )

Satan called a worldwide convention of demons.
In his opening address he said,

"We can't keep Christians from going to church."
"We can't keep them from reading their Bibles and knowing the truth."
"We can't even keep them from forming an intimate relationship with their savior."
"Once they gain that connection with Jesus, our power over them is broken."
"So let them go to their churches; let them have their covered dish dinners, BUT steal their time,
so they don't have time to develop a relationship with Jesus Christ.."

"This is what I want you to do," said the devil:
"Distract them from gaining hold of their Savior and maintaining that vital connection throughout their day!"
"How shall we do this?" his demons shouted.
"Keep them busy in the non-essentials of life and invent innumerable schemes
to occupy their minds," he answered.
"Tempt them to spend, spend, spend, and borrow, borrow, borrow."
"Persuade the wives to go to work for long hours and the husbands
to work 6-7 days each week, 10-12 hours a day, so they can afford their empty lifestyles."
"Keep them from spending time with their children."
"As their families fragment, soon, their homes will offer no escape from the pressures of work!"
"Over-stimulate their minds so that they cannot hear that still, small voice."
"Entice them to play the radio or CD whenever they drive."
"Keep the TV, CDs and their music, and their phones and PCs going constantly in their home
and see to it that every store and restaurant in the world plays non-spiritual music constantly."

"This will jam their minds and break that union with Christ."

"Fill the coffee tables with magazines and newspapers."
"Pound their minds with the news 24 hours a day."
"Invade their driving moments with billboards."
"Flood their mailboxes with junk mail, mail order catalogs, sweepstakes, and every kind of newsletter and promotional offering free products, services and false hopes.."
"Keep skinny, beautiful models on the magazines and TV so their husbands will believe that outward beauty is what's important, and they'll become dissatisfied with their wives. "
"Keep the wives too tired to love their husbands at night." "Give them headaches too! "
"If they don't give their husbands the love they need, they will begin to look elsewhere."
"That will fragment their families quickly!"
"Give them Santa Claus to distract them from teaching their children the real meaning of Christmas."
"Give them an Easter bunny so they won't talk about his resurrection and power over sin and death."
"Even in their recreation, let them be excessive."
"Have them return from their recreation exhausted."
"Keep them too busy to go out in nature and reflect on God's creation."
Send them to amusement parks, sporting events, plays, concerts, and movies instead."
"Keep them busy, busy, busy!"

"And when they meet for church, involve them in gossip and small talk
so that they leave with troubled consciences."
"Crowd their lives with so many good causes they have no time to seek power from Jesus."
"Soon they will be working in their own strength, sacrificing their health and family
for the good of the cause."

"It will work!"

"It will work!"

It was quite a plan!

The demons went eagerly to their assignments causing Christians everywhere to get busier
and more rushed, going here and there.
Having little time for their God or their families and friends.
Having no time to tell others about the power of Jesus to change lives.

I guess the question is, has the devil been successful in his schemes?

You be the judge!!!!!

Does "B U S Y" mean:
B-eing U-nder S-atan's Y-oke?

Hey I AM, your post was quite long, and the only thing you said in it was that the Apostle was trying to discredit Joseph Smith. That's the only thing that made any sense to me..

[PressingForward]

I AM is correct though, and all you want to do burnt toast is spread your homosexual agenda. So you say you are female, biologically, or self identified.......?

[PressingForward]

I AM is correct though, and all you want to do burnt toast is spread your homosexual agenda. So you say you are female, biologically, or self identified.......?

[Toast]

I AM is correct though, and all you want to do burnt toast is spread your homosexual agenda. So you say you are female, biologically, or self identified.......?

Okay, let me make sure I'm understanding this correctly. Satan influenced a Mormon Apostle to write this letter that supports homosexuals, because he wants homosexuals to be happy and not persecuted and shamed to death because God made them that way to see if they'd pass the 'trial' of being unhappy their entire life, if they make it that far? When you put it that way, Satan sounds like a cool guy!

[Toast]

I AM is correct though, and all you want to do burnt toast is spread your homosexual agenda. So you say you are female, biologically, or self identified.......?

I'm biologically a female, but that's irrelevant.

[I AM]

this whole thread is just a waste of time,
and was just created to stew in D E C E P T I O N
Satan's biggest trick

[Toast]

this whole thread is just a waste of time,
and was just created to stew in D E C E P T I O N
Satan's biggest trick

If you have nothing constructive to say and you think it's a waste of time, then why have you been spending so much time toiling over it?

[Lizzy60]

I AM is correct though, and all you want to do burnt toast is spread your homosexual agenda. So you say you are female, biologically, or self identified.......?

Okay, let me make sure I'm understanding this correctly. Satan influenced a Mormon Apostle to write this letter that supports homosexuals, because he wants homosexuals to be happy and not persecuted and shamed to death because God made them that way to see if they'd pass the 'trial' of being unhappy their entire life? When you put it that way, Satan sounds like a cool guy!

God does NOT make people homosexual. That is one of Satan's biggest lies.

[I AM]

this whole thread is just a waste of time,
and was just created to stew in D E C E P T I O N
Satan's biggest trick

If you have nothing constructive to say and you think it's a waste of time, then why have you been spending so much time toiling over it?

--------------
so others that are looking for truth won't have to.

[Toast]

God does NOT make people homosexual. That is one of Satan's biggest lies.

Here is a quote about LGBT issues from Bill Reel's letter to the brethren that can be found here: https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp- ... xZuS1zNCps

He really nails the issue!

#1 - The LGBT issue.
This is the precipice issue of our day. The world will continue to become more and more accepting as the science becomes more and more certain and the information more and more known that this is a biological issue. This is not about sexual behavior, this is about someone’s identity. I sense that you are all aware of the science even if you wish to be seen as naïveto it. To place so much trust in the old Testament as literal stories that clearly define God’s standards gets messy and doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Restoration scripture says little to nothing of homosexuality. Who are the celestial people in the lower two glories of the celestial kingdom? Why do we teach that a post mortal man and woman sealed are who god gives creative power when two premortal men (Michael and Jehovah) are our only doctrinal example of who creates?

Play a hypothetical with me. Had the 78’ revelation not occurred, who would join a church in 2016 that didn’t allow people of color to enjoy full fellowship? The LGBT issue is on the same trajectory. Now ask yourselves, if you make the change 30 years from now, imagine the theological awareness all members will have about just how wrong prophets can be, and so out of touch with Jesus that they entrenched on an issue that caused kids to take their lives. Black folks pre 78' at least had acceptance within the walls of their own homes and their black family. Black folks were not taking their lives over the Priesthood ban. This is exponentially greater in terms of the reconciliation members will have to make. Every member will have to come face to face with just how fallible church leaders are... just how fallible you are. This shift will be so dramatic that they will either lose faith or have to make overwhelming adjustments to their beliefs, assumptions, and expectations... adjustments that will have them never trusting religious authorities again as their ultimate source of truth. Imagine learning that Jesus either didn’t think gay suicide was a big enough deal to talk to you guys about it or that you guys were so set in your ways that you weren’t wanting to hear him, that decades went by and you did nothing dramatic to stop it. Noone will be joining a homophobic church in 2060 in a developed country. I sense that you sense you are in a conundrum.

Solution
-Can I first suggest you take time to become informed on the science and if you already are, stop pretending you are not. If you are not aware then I suggest you stop dismissing it and take time to truly understand what homosexuality is and isn't. You do people great harm to assume you understand this issue when your predecessors assumed the same and taught egregiously false and harmful things about homosexuality and its causes.

– You have theological room if you are creative, make a clear deliberate shift as soon as possible and label it revelation. Show that Jesus cares about these kids and he has spoken. Yes the older generation will be made extremelyuncomfortable. Some will lose faith and leave... but if you do nothing people are already leaving and you are losing the younger generation as their world is to big to maintain exclusive attitudes about people different then us when the science and lived experience don't support you. They simply won't tolerate a homophobic church and homophobic leaders. They have too much access to information to be patient as you turn the ship slowly and they certainly won't tolerate of you not turning the ship at all.

-This issue will not rest and will grow worse until you can find a way to equally include gays in our theology. The longer you wait the more disruptive this will be to your authority and that of those who fill your shoes later. Make the change asap. The sooner you do so the more dramatic and faith promoting it will be seen generally. This abruptshift will be seen much more as revelation and faith promoting than a long drawn out shift that has the younger generation completely checked out by the time it occurs, dismayed at how many lives you allowed to be sacrificed in the name of your stubbornness and entrenchment.

[DRC53]

Much has been made of youth interviews with protests, and a hunger strike by Sam Young, which I assume the letter was addressing. What's everyone's take on the importance of closed door one on one worthiness interviews, where bishops could ask minors about their sexuality, etc?

The question asked is simply ... Do you keep the law of chastity? There might be some poignant follow up questions to ensure the youth understands the law of chastity, but there are no in-depth inquiries about sex or sexuality. You’re raising a red herring for which you are either ignorant about or you are being disingenuous.

Have bishops gone off the tracks at times? I am sure some have, but this is not an institutional, systemic problem. In any case, the child can have someone present with them. So, again, this is a tired, lame anti-Mormon tactic that is meant to alarm, but has no teeth to it.

[Fiannan]

Here is a quote about LGBT issues from Bill Reel's letter to the brethren that can be found here...

He speaks of science. Yet does he pinpoint what science? I have noted that there can be variables that could make one more predisposed to bisexuality in women based on testosterone driving both attraction to and interest in sex, but where are the genes that cause one to be gay? Studies have been conducted on testosterone levels in men and nothing has come out of it. Studies have been done on receptor sites for testosterone and, again, nothing. You can have identical male twins with the same foundational DNA and one is gay and one is straight.

Of course, in case a DNA marker was shown you better believe that secular people, not religious, will add that to the DNA tests done in-utero and, just like the vast majority of babies found to be downs syndrome the mothers will abort. Careful what you hope will be discovered I guess.

[Chip]

One of President Reagan's maxims was, "If you subsidize it, you'll get more of it."

If people who sucked their thumbs were made into a protected, privileged class, you'd suddenly have all kinds of thumb-suckers claiming organic origins of their thumb-sucking behavior. For youth today, transgenderism is the new 'astronaut'. Very special people, exceptionally equal over others.

The elevation and subsidation of everything LGBTQ is a function of modern Bolshevism, driven by the same people who drove the Russian communist revolution 100 years ago.

Every lesbian I've known personally was abused by a man in their childhood. Same with every gay man I"ve known. That's seen as a very unsophisticated understanding nowadays, since it doesn't accommodate biological predeterminancy.

In a licentious society, though, there will be more LGBTQ people, as a product of the ennui resulting from lack of purpose and apparent necessity to live right.