Temple changes

[Robin Hood]

I went to the temple a few days ago, the first time for an endowment session since the changes at the beginning of the year.
I went with a positive attitude and was determined to look for insights and additional light and truth.
I regret to report I was thoroughly disappointed.

If I had to sum up the "new" endowment in simple words, the likes of butchered, brutalised, spirit-less, dis-jointed, manipulated, contrived etc come to mind.
I came away deflated and actually a little annoyed.

It has affected me considerably since though I have attempted to put these negative thoughts and feelings away, but have as yet been successful.

In fact, I would go as far as to say I have no desire to return and participate in endowment sessions. We have planned a few trips this year but I have pretty much decided to concentrate my efforts in the baptistry from now on.

Am I alone in these feelings?
Can anyone report positives to counter-balance my negative observations?
Can anyone offer some insight I may have missed?

I don't want to feel so negative, so any thoughts and observations would be helpful, especially from those who have experience the new regime themselves.

[Alaris]

I'm truly sorry you felt that way. I know you and I have different perspectives, but I had a positive experience and shared some of my initial thoughts. I do believe these changes were inspired and that the PC garbage that began right around the last significant endowment change (1990) has been an effort of the adversary to thwart these inevitable changes that likely also happened in the world he came from (think of Lucifer's first words to Adam.)

/viewtopic.php?t=50298

If the adversary can make it seem like the changes were in response to political pressure whereas the truth is the opposite - quite a nice trick indeed and not that complicated if you think about it.

Edit: Looking at the above thread, I can see you already chimed in and had some strong opinions about something you hadn't seen yet. Moreover, you can already see a schism form in the thread. Even though some of the "thanks" for derogatory comments about the church are by non members, some are by forum members who seem to have been members in good standing.

[Robin Hood]

I'm truly sorry you felt that way. I know you and I have different perspectives, but I had a positive experience and shared some of my initial thoughts. I do believe these changes were inspired and that the PC garbage that began right around the last significant endowment change (1990) has been an effort of the adversary to thwart these inevitable changes that likely also happened in the world he came from (think of Lucifer's first words to Adam.)

/viewtopic.php?t=50298

If the adversary can make it seem like the changes were in response to political pressure whereas the truth is the opposite - quite a nice trick indeed and not that complicated if you think about it.

Edit: Looking at the above thread, I can see you already chimed in and had some strong opinions about something you hadn't seen yet. Moreover, you can already see a schism form in the thread. Even though some of the "thanks" for derogatory comments about the church are by non members, some are by forum members who seem to have been members in good standing.

Actually, it is because of the prophecies of the last days, principally through Isaiah, that I am so alarmed. I went to the temple with the attitude that it can't be like others had said, it can't be a negative experience etc. I was looking forward to a good experience.

I came away feeling very strongly that something was wrong. What I didn't say in the intro was that while in the session I experience a darkness in my spirit, something that has never happened to me in the temple. Something isn't right.
I had misgivings when the changes were introduced because I'm not one for change. It uneases me. But over the last few weeks I have settled down in my thoughts and reconciled myself to the changes as reported. I went there with a very positive attitude.

I was uneasy about the changes in 1990 but got on with it and everything was ok. The signs we make in the temple now make very little sense to those who never experienced the pre-1990 ordinance, but they do to me because, like other older folk, I know what they really mean.

But my experience last week was so profoundly dark and negative that it took me completely by surprise.
I have always resisted those who apply Isaiah's teachings to us in the hope their interpretations were wrong, or at least extreme. But I had an epiphany in the temple, a light bulb moment, and suddenly I feel a lot of things are starting to fall into place.
It is more than worrying.

[Kingdom of ZION]

I'm truly sorry you felt that way. I know you and I have different perspectives, but I had a positive experience and shared some of my initial thoughts. I do believe these changes were inspired and that the PC garbage that began right around the last significant endowment change (1990) has been an effort of the adversary to thwart these inevitable changes that likely also happened in the world he came from (think of Lucifer's first words to Adam.)

/viewtopic.php?t=50298

If the adversary can make it seem like the changes were in response to political pressure whereas the truth is the opposite - quite a nice trick indeed and not that complicated if you think about it.

Edit: Looking at the above thread, I can see you already chimed in and had some strong opinions about something you hadn't seen yet. Moreover, you can already see a schism form in the thread. Even though some of the "thanks" for derogatory comments about the church are by non members, some are by forum members who seem to have been members in good standing.

Actually, it is because of the prophecies of the last days, principally through Isaiah, that I am so alarmed. I went to the temple with the attitude that it can't be like others had said, it can't be a negative experience etc. I was looking forward to a good experience.

I came away feeling very strongly that something was wrong. What I didn't say in the intro was that while in the session I experience a darkness in my spirit, something that has never happened to me in the temple. Something isn't right.
I had misgivings when the changes were introduced because I'm not one for change. It uneases me. But over the last few weeks I have settled down in my thoughts and reconciled myself to the changes as reported. I went there with a very positive attitude.

I was uneasy about the changes in 1990 but got on with it and everything was ok. The signs we make in the temple now make very little sense to those who never experienced the pre-1990 ordinance, but they do to me because, like other older folk, I know what they really mean.

But my experience last week was so profoundly dark and negative that it took me completely by surprise.
I have always resisted those who apply Isaiah's teachings to us in the hope their interpretations were wrong, or at least extreme. But I had an epiphany in the temple, a light bulb moment, and suddenly I feel a lot of things are starting to fall into place.
It is more than worrying.

The Temple Endowment is an allegory of Eternal Progression, and the places and tests you must pass to advance. When one does not comprehend the allegory, and they begin deleting portions of instruction, the allegory is lost, and the instruction that is given thereafter is meaningless. Hence, no one is any longer Endowed with the knowledge needed to see where they have been, where they are, or given the knowledge to advance any further. That makes it pointless.

Sorry for your loss. It feels like you showed up, but you went to the wrong church by accident. It is the next generation and those after them that will ultimately partake of this cursing. When one rejects light, darkness takes it place... and how dark is this darkness!

[Alaris]

Speak of the

...

Wait isn't attacking the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints against the forum rules?

[Aprhys]

I'm truly sorry you felt that way. I know you and I have different perspectives, but I had a positive experience and shared some of my initial thoughts. I do believe these changes were inspired and that the PC garbage that began right around the last significant endowment change (1990) has been an effort of the adversary to thwart these inevitable changes that likely also happened in the world he came from (think of Lucifer's first words to Adam.)

/viewtopic.php?t=50298

If the adversary can make it seem like the changes were in response to political pressure whereas the truth is the opposite - quite a nice trick indeed and not that complicated if you think about it.

Edit: Looking at the above thread, I can see you already chimed in and had some strong opinions about something you hadn't seen yet. Moreover, you can already see a schism form in the thread. Even though some of the "thanks" for derogatory comments about the church are by non members, some are by forum members who seem to have been members in good standing.

Actually, it is because of the prophecies of the last days, principally through Isaiah, that I am so alarmed. I went to the temple with the attitude that it can't be like others had said, it can't be a negative experience etc. I was looking forward to a good experience.

I came away feeling very strongly that something was wrong. What I didn't say in the intro was that while in the session I experience a darkness in my spirit, something that has never happened to me in the temple. Something isn't right.
I had misgivings when the changes were introduced because I'm not one for change. It uneases me. But over the last few weeks I have settled down in my thoughts and reconciled myself to the changes as reported. I went there with a very positive attitude.

I was uneasy about the changes in 1990 but got on with it and everything was ok. The signs we make in the temple now make very little sense to those who never experienced the pre-1990 ordinance, but they do to me because, like other older folk, I know what they really mean.

But my experience last week was so profoundly dark and negative that it took me completely by surprise.
I have always resisted those who apply Isaiah's teachings to us in the hope their interpretations were wrong, or at least extreme. But I had an epiphany in the temple, a light bulb moment, and suddenly I feel a lot of things are starting to fall into place.
It is more than worrying.

Whoa there! A spirit of darkness? That is EXACTLY how I felt when I went last week. It was so powerful and uncomfortable that I had to actually get up and leave mid-session. I got dressed and sat in the foyer until my wife came out. I have never felt this before in my life much less in the temple. Crazy.

[David13]

I was thinking along these lines about the Temple just this morning. I don't know how to put into words what I'm sensing or feeling, but it was something with some feeling of disenchantment.
dc

[Chip]

Whoa there! A spirit of darkness? That is EXACTLY how I felt when I went last week. It was so powerful and uncomfortable that I had to actually get up and leave mid-session. I got dressed and sat in the foyer until my wife came out. I have never felt this before in my life much less in the temple. Crazy.

Does this mean that the endowment ordinance was aborted for the person whose work you were doing?

I guess it doesn't record until you are at the veil, right, and the temple worker retains the paper slip?

[Arganoil]

I also went just a few days ago. The endowment feels unfinished to me, above anything else. I am happy with the change in the way Eve does not covenant through Adam anymore, which always felt untrue to me. I did leave a bit deflated though. Not by far the darkness you described, but it feels rushed and unfinished. I have the feeling much, much more is going to be changed, and although I like changes normally, I do need to see where the changes will take us and seek personal revelation on them. I am curious and worried at the same time for what is in store for this church.

[drtanner]

I had the complete opposite experience, and I know hundreds who have had spiritual confirmations in the positive about the changes.

[Robin Hood]

I had the complete opposite experience, and I know hundreds who have had spiritual confirmations in the positive about the changes.

I've asked around and I can't find anyone who thinks the "new" endowment is an improvement. Most people I have discussed it with are neutral.
Some feel quite alarmed like me.

[LadyT]

I had the complete opposite experience, and I know hundreds who have had spiritual confirmations in the positive about the changes.

I would be one who had an amazing experience with the new changes. One of the best times in the temple for me.

[Contemplator]

I went to the temple a few days ago, the first time for an endowment session since the changes at the beginning of the year.
I went with a positive attitude and was determined to look for insights and additional light and truth.
I regret to report I was thoroughly disappointed.

If I had to sum up the "new" endowment in simple words, the likes of butchered, brutalised, spirit-less, dis-jointed, manipulated, contrived etc come to mind.
I came away deflated and actually a little annoyed.

It has affected me considerably since though I have attempted to put these negative thoughts and feelings away, but have as yet been successful.

In fact, I would go as far as to say I have no desire to return and participate in endowment sessions. We have planned a few trips this year but I have pretty much decided to concentrate my efforts in the baptistry from now on.

Am I alone in these feelings?
Can anyone report positives to counter-balance my negative observations?
Can anyone offer some insight I may have missed?

I don't want to feel so negative, so any thoughts and observations would be helpful, especially from those who have experience the new regime themselves.

Robin Hood,

I write this with real care because I know you to be a faithful person with a good heart. That comes through in what you post here. Far be it from me to suggest that your reaction was not real and authentic. I merely offer another possibility.

My good friend went through the temple for the first time last year. She had a really upsetting experience. She went in with trepidation for a variety of reasons. She was overcome with a feeling that this ritual that is different then her other experiences was sure evidence that she was in a cult and that she needed to get out! There was a very real possibility that she would never go back to the temple again because of how she felt in that session. Her feelings were real. But, they were feelings that reflected her trepidation and worry and did not somehow reflect truth about the endowment.

She decided to go again. After all, so many good friends and family had been telling her for years that the temple is great. The next time she attended she felt peace. The time after that she received a revelation about her own life. She has found the temple to be a real blessing in her life since then. Had she given up she would not have that revelation in her life.

I find the endowment to be the same as before the changes. In other words, my access to revelation has as much to do with how I approach God in temple as ever.

I hope that is a little helpful

[dezNatDefender]

I had the complete opposite experience, and I know hundreds who have had spiritual confirmations in the positive about the changes.

I've asked around and I can't find anyone who thinks the "new" endowment is an improvement. Most people I have discussed it with are neutral.
Some feel quite alarmed like me.

Welcome to the club. Same here.

How can it be that many people are getting conflicting messages of truth?

All is not well in Zion. I bet if the truth be known the liberal wing of the Church is much more likely to be happy with the changes/feel they are inspired and the conservative wing is much more likely to not be happy with the changes/feel they are not inspired.

Politics in the Church rather than truth based upon Scripture.

[drtanner]

I had the complete opposite experience, and I know hundreds who have had spiritual confirmations in the positive about the changes.

I've asked around and I can't find anyone who thinks the "new" endowment is an improvement. Most people I have discussed it with are neutral.
Some feel quite alarmed like me.

Seems really odd to me to considering I don’t know anyone personally with the exception of those on the forum who have had negative reactions. Talking especially with those who serve in the temple has been particularly enlightening as they have shared some beautiful experiences.

[MMbelieve]

I had the complete opposite experience, and I know hundreds who have had spiritual confirmations in the positive about the changes.

I've asked around and I can't find anyone who thinks the "new" endowment is an improvement. Most people I have discussed it with are neutral.
Some feel quite alarmed like me.

Perhaps you expected it to be “improved” and better and receive something different than you had previously known and experienced. You judged the new experience on the previous experience thus you allowed yourself to go there with the wrong intention and I bet thats why you felt bad/negative. Yes, you tried to be possitive but you were already filled with all sorts of ideas and preconceived ideas based on others and your own fears. I believe you went there with the wrong intention (not on purpose but by consequence maybe) and thus were not feeling the spirit.

I also believe that the darkness or bad feelings in the temple are not actually because of evil but simply a void of feeling the spirit confirming. In your case, going with the wrong intention could very well have resulted in the spirit not residing with you and that would have brought a perceived darkness to your experience. Take the literal you felt and apply it symbolically. Why did you feel a darkness and a sense of being cut off from the good enligtening experience you were hoping for and expecting. Is it more about you or was everyone feeling this same way as you were?

I felt a bad feeling in the celestial room once, it was shocking and bothered me greatly...how can someone feel bad feelings, “the evil” in the temple?? Well, it was because the question I was asking Heavenly Father while sitting there after a session was answered and was a negative response instead of the possitive I was hoping for and that seemed like a no-brainer of course! Type of answer. It was simply void of a spiritual confirmation, I was not elevated with a Yes answer, i was lowered with a negative and it felt really bad. I was not experiencing evil but by nature of my question, it had confused and bothered me for a while why it felt the way it did. Asking that same question outside the temple would have resulted in a mere silence but in the temple I was able to experience more acutely a negative response.

My in-laws shared their experience after attending the new session and I thought for sure what I had heard from others that at least he would have been angry/upset at the changes. To my suprise, they both really liked it and went again shortly after.

[Sarah]

Change always feels a little uncomfortable or unsettling. Its like when you've been singing a certain song your whole life, and you hear a different version of it. Inside you tell yourself, "this is wrong" when it's just different. You get used to the new version of a new song over time and then it feels familiar. Even though I love the changes and feel the wisdom in them, when I sit through I find myself wanting to finish the sentences differently because they are so familiar, and it sparks a feeling of loss, but it's simply me not being familiar enough with the changes.
It comes down to the question of trust. I trust God is leading Pres. Nelson and the Church in the right direction. I have spiritual confirmation that these temples will be used in the millenium and that the Lord himself will visit the temples.

[kittycat51]

Wow, my heart aches for you Robin.

Not sure it applies but yes dark feelings can come to one in the temple. I had a thought come to my mind out of nowhere just last year while sitting in a session. It was a very bad thought and feeling and it made me feel so completely dark inside. I couldn't figure out where it came from. I therefore believed it to be a true impression. IT SCARED ME. The impression however was INCORRECT and couldn't be further from the truth upon further research...

I'm not saying all of my friends/family/acquaintances have the same thoughts, but so far everybody that I know that have spoken of the changes just have positive things to say. (my own father who has been a temple sealer for over 30 years loves the changes. He's usually pretty set in his ways)

I agree with Sarah; change can be difficult. To be honest the first time I witnesses the changes, I felt weird. I'm also so set in my ways that I crave routine and I DON'T like changes in my life. But I trust in God and I believe and support our Prophet. I go weekly and the more I see the new changes the more I like them.

[John Tavner]

I'm truly sorry you felt that way. I know you and I have different perspectives, but I had a positive experience and shared some of my initial thoughts. I do believe these changes were inspired and that the PC garbage that began right around the last significant endowment change (1990) has been an effort of the adversary to thwart these inevitable changes that likely also happened in the world he came from (think of Lucifer's first words to Adam.)

/viewtopic.php?t=50298

If the adversary can make it seem like the changes were in response to political pressure whereas the truth is the opposite - quite a nice trick indeed and not that complicated if you think about it.

Edit: Looking at the above thread, I can see you already chimed in and had some strong opinions about something you hadn't seen yet. Moreover, you can already see a schism form in the thread. Even though some of the "thanks" for derogatory comments about the church are by non members, some are by forum members who seem to have been members in good standing.

Actually, it is because of the prophecies of the last days, principally through Isaiah, that I am so alarmed. I went to the temple with the attitude that it can't be like others had said, it can't be a negative experience etc. I was looking forward to a good experience.

I came away feeling very strongly that something was wrong. What I didn't say in the intro was that while in the session I experience a darkness in my spirit, something that has never happened to me in the temple. Something isn't right.
I had misgivings when the changes were introduced because I'm not one for change. It uneases me. But over the last few weeks I have settled down in my thoughts and reconciled myself to the changes as reported. I went there with a very positive attitude.

I was uneasy about the changes in 1990 but got on with it and everything was ok. The signs we make in the temple now make very little sense to those who never experienced the pre-1990 ordinance, but they do to me because, like other older folk, I know what they really mean.

But my experience last week was so profoundly dark and negative that it took me completely by surprise.
I have always resisted those who apply Isaiah's teachings to us in the hope their interpretations were wrong, or at least extreme. But I had an epiphany in the temple, a light bulb moment, and suddenly I feel a lot of things are starting to fall into place.
It is more than worrying.

I don’t want to say welcome to
The club because it is sad and I don’t like welcoming anyone to this club of
Feeling that at the temple. I’ve felt the same because of those
Changes. . That being said, I still encourage those who get something out of the temple to go. I however also felt damaged during the endowment session and for me, It was the first time I went to a session and for the first time did not feel Filled or lifted up. Anyways I will also focus on the Baptistry in the future. All we can do now is learn the voice of
The Lord and follow the Spirit in all things. If we do that, like Nephi said it will show us all things to do. Trusting in god has always been paramount, but it will be clearly and openly necessary as the winding up stage comes to a close. Without the spirit and knowing it’s voice and not trusting in man (including our own experience) we will likely die both spiritually and physically.

[Kingdom of ZION]

I had the complete opposite experience, and I know hundreds who have had spiritual confirmations in the positive about the changes.

I've asked around and I can't find anyone who thinks the "new" endowment is an improvement. Most people I have discussed it with are neutral.
Some feel quite alarmed like me.

Welcome to the club. Same here.

How can it be that many people are getting conflicting messages of truth?

All is not well in Zion. I bet if the truth be known the liberal wing of the Church is much more likely to be happy with the changes/feel they are inspired and the conservative wing is much more likely to not be happy with the changes/feel they are not inspired.

Politics in the Church rather than truth based upon Scripture.

It is not Politics that makes the difference in right wing people and left wing people.

Right wing people believe in individual freedom, liberty, right of choice, agency (the Messiah's program).

Left wing people believe in group rights outweigh the individual, redistribution of assets, force and compulsion to bring in nirvana, make everyone the same or equal (the adversary's program).

There always is this division of spirits, and now souls... and the story goes on!!!

[mirkwood]

I finally went a coupe weeks ago. I waited until the crowds died out. I felt the same beautiful spirit I always do. My covenants are the same. My wife's covenants are the same. Some wording changed. Whatever, it is still the same set of covenants.

For those of you queued up to argue semantics: if either of our covenants (men or women) had changed, we would have to do a new endowment session for ourselves.

[Serragon]

This isn't about change feeling a little unsettling or different. Robin Hood is not a child who can't handle a bit of change to his routine. This goes much deeper than that.

Essential doctrine has been removed from the temple endowment. The true relationship between Adam, Eve, and God is no longer taught in the temple. The Law of obedience has been changed. And we have seen no revelation to indicate why this has happened. Nothing to explain how every prophet from Adam to Monson got this wrong. It really appears to have been done for reasons of political correctness and convenience.

I have not heard anyone voice this opinion out loud. Everyone I have spoken with has either been positive about the changes, or have been indifferent to them. Yet all of the positive comments have been of the superficial variety. It is shorter. You don't have to change as much. It is easier. I never liked having to veil my face. My step mother even said that she is glad she no longer has to obey her husband (in a joking way).

This change flies in the face of scripture and past revelation. It cannot be explained as a "line upon line" change as I have seen many try and do. It is removing lines, not building upon them. And it is replacing those lines with something false. Something that is rooted in modern feminist ideaology and not God. The world has long taught that Eve does not need Adam, and here we are now implementing that same idea into our temple covenants.

It is regrettable to me that this has happened. I understand Robin Hood's feelings. I will continue to attend the temple as I believe in essential nature of those covenants. But it is with much sadness and regret that I see us as a Church and people moving farther from God and closer to the World. My children will never be able to covenant to keep the true Law of obedience.

I really appreciate most of the changes the Church has made w/ regards to organization. Putting the Melchizedek priesthood quorums together under the person with keys was long overdue. We are getting much more in line with the scriptures and past revelation in an organizational sense. But, in my opinion, we are continuing to move away from God and closer to the world in matters of doctrine.

[commonwealth]

I recently went to take my daughter through. This was my first time since the changes.

It feels like a step down in the experience. The closest thing I can relate it to is this - we used to have a Banana Republic experience, and now we have an Old Navy experience - like the temple has been put on sale to appeal to the masses. It's shorter, less time to think and ponder. Less time to actually understand. It's like a company that is just going through the motions to get more people through the door.

I'm actually sad for my daughter, because it seems like she's been short-changed, and she doesn't even know she's been short-changed. She still freaked out because it comes across foreign to modern day people. All I think is that it's sad.

[Lizzy60]

I see two groups that are happy or content with the changes. The feminists, both men and women, along with the pro-gay-marriage people, are happy. Some of them are actually thrilled. They perceive that women's status has been elevated, and that there is room in the chastity covenant and sealing language for gay marriage to be implemented.

Those who are content, broadly speaking, are those who will never find fault with anything that comes from the top leadership, and will not allow themselves any doubt or cognitive dissonance.

A man in my ward gave a talk recently and told of a spiritual experience he had as a teenager attending the Provo temple dedication (early 1970's). He then said that because of the witness he received that Spencer Kimball was a Prophet, he has never doubted anything that comes from the President of the Church. This is similar to the view that if you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, and that the Book of Mormon is true scripture, then you must believe that every jot and tittle that comes from SLC is also true. The leaders are therefore infallible, and can never lead the church astray in any area. No cognitive dissonance allowed.

This doesn't cover everyone of course, and it's very possible that if one prays about the temple changes, and gets the feeling that they should attend the temple, then it's very likely true that the Lord still wants them there. It's also true that if receiving revelation that the changes are not from God would damage one's marriage, one's family, or one's overall testimony, God may withhold that information for the time being. We are children, and just babies compared to God. He will not give us more (individually) than we are ready to receive.

[kirtland r.m.]

I had the complete opposite experience, and I know hundreds who have had spiritual confirmations in the positive about the changes.

I've asked around and I can't find anyone who thinks the "new" endowment is an improvement. Most people I have discussed it with are neutral.
Some feel quite alarmed like me.

Welcome to the club. Same here.

How can it be that many people are getting conflicting messages of truth?

All is not well in Zion. I bet if the truth be known the liberal wing of the Church is much more likely to be happy with the changes/feel they are inspired and the conservative wing is much more likely to not be happy with the changes/feel they are not inspired.

Politics in the Church rather than truth based upon Scripture.

As I have posted before, when feminists and other lefties rejoice in the changes, as related through the Salt Lake Tribune, rag that it has always been, and remember these are the pro abortion backers as well, it speaks volumes. The church is sliding to the left as Elder Packer has warned about. I am also troubled by this. Seems some of our highest leaders are also helping perpetuate this. There is a real possibility of a fracture in the church if this continues. Just what are we being told with all of the E. Changes. That Joseph had it wrong? That the saints cannot now endure as much sound doctrine? Or is it that social changes needed to be made for “ gender equity “, one of my least favorite liberal phrases.Satan’s game plan has always been to divide and conquer. That has been a part of his chaos stew from the beginning. Mixing false doctrine with true is another pillar of his false gospel. Confuse, distract, and get people to put themselves and their personal agendas before revelation.I am starting to feel a bit like Landau Calrissian, in his conversation with Darth Vader. When the Landau said “ this was never what we agreed to” and Darth Vader responded by saying “pray I don’t alter the deal any further”.