LDS Freedom Forum

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... rHRzSHjsE4

New Zealand’s new prime minister renounced her faith when she was in her twenties in favour of equal rights for LGBT people.

and...

Congress' first openly bisexual member grew up Mormon, graduated from BYU

Now, of course, she is a senator: https://www.standard.net/lifestyle/cong ... 649a6.html

Will we see more ex-Mormon women rise in politics? We have Marco Rubio who is conservative, but are there any women who are ex out there in politics that are conservative?

Yes there is, or more correctly was. Former US Representative Barbara Cubin of Wyoming was a member but later became an Episcopalian. She remains active in Wyoming Republican political circles.

I think growing up LDS is good for anyone who wants to be a future leader. We teach leadership and public speaking skills pretty well in our youth. Those are skills you get to take with you no matter if you choose to stay in the church or not.

A lot of society babies their youth right now with adults planning and entertaining them in all aspects of their life. We force them to come out of comfort zones pretty early in a safe place to grow.

I do think without some changes, the church was at risk of losing strong and capable young women. The gulf between the opportunities the world was offering and the church was becoming a canyon. Telling them that the boys they grew up with would be their leaders is a tough sell when they are performing at least equally in school and leadership. I think that's a big reason the church increased mission opportunities for women and clarified temple language. These young women are strong and ready without a lot of mental garbage from the past about their capabilities in serving the world at large.

mtm411 wrote: ↑March 24th, 2019, 2:30 pm I think growing up LDS is good for anyone who wants to be a future leader. We teach leadership and public speaking skills pretty well in our youth. Those are skills you get to take with you no matter if you choose to stay in the church or not.

Yet aren't women who quit today often motivated by left-wing sorts of issues?

mtm411 wrote: ↑March 24th, 2019, 2:30 pm I think growing up LDS is good for anyone who wants to be a future leader. We teach leadership and public speaking skills pretty well in our youth. Those are skills you get to take with you no matter if you choose to stay in the church or not.

A lot of society babies their youth right now with adults planning and entertaining them in all aspects of their life. We force them to come out of comfort zones pretty early in a safe place to grow.

I do think without some changes, the church was at risk of losing strong and capable young women. The gulf between the opportunities the world was offering and the church was becoming a canyon. Telling them that the boys they grew up with would be their leaders is a tough sell when they are performing at least equally in school and leadership. I think that's a big reason the church increased mission opportunities for women and clarified temple language. These young women are strong and ready without a lot of mental garbage from the past about their capabilities in serving the world at large.

I still believe that motherhood is the highest and noblest calling for a woman.

Mothers not only give life, they literally feed the hungry, clothe the naked and administer to the sick daily: the children. Who could be defined as "the least of these" more than a child?

I disagree almost entirely with your last paragraph.

I agree there is a gulf, but it has always been that what the world offers is nothing in comparison to what the true gospel of Jesus Christ offers.

That which is despised here on earth will be praised in heaven. That which is praised by the world will be counted but little in heaven.

I still believe that motherhood is the highest and noblest calling for a woman.

True. No matter what job and no matter what career a man or woman takes they can be replaced in a very short time, and they will be soon forgotten by their co-workers.

I completely agree with motherhood being a very high calling. I am a mom of many kids and I stay home with them, happily. In reality, I have very few female relatives that have been as lucky as I have been. My father in law went through early dementia and was forced into retirement at 50, when they still had several children at home. Thankfully, my mother in law had a degree that she worked into being an accountant and she is still working 50 hours a week to support my father in law and carries insurance. Without her education, they would be bankrupt and impoverished, and entirely dependent on the charity of their children, which we would do our best to provide, but resources are limited. My own mother has had to work off and on for various reasons, my dad has been laid off a few times. Thankfully, she has a degree and job skills that she has been able to put to use.

Many women aren't finding partners, so while hoping and preparing for mother hood is good and honorable, every young woman needs a plan to support herself. Even finding an elligible partner means going to college for most young women. There aren't too many young men, especially ambitious and hard working who want to date women who don't have higher education. Are there some? Of course, but odds are much worse for women who don't go to college in our religion. I don't have a single friend from my youth group in the late 90s who didn't go to college and got married in the church. Many found good spouses, but outside of our religion.

The fact is that in modern society women need to prepare for a higher education if they are intellectually able. They also need to prepare for a career so they can support their children or spouse if the worst happens. Or so they can have a full life waiting for that spouse.

Sister Wendy Nelson didn't just sit around waiting for her prince charming. She went to college, became a professor, wrote books, and developed a life that attracted the right sort of man when he came around, even if she waited until her 50's for it to happen.

Michelle wrote: ↑March 24th, 2019, 9:51 pm

mtm411 wrote: ↑March 24th, 2019, 2:30 pm I think growing up LDS is good for anyone who wants to be a future leader. We teach leadership and public speaking skills pretty well in our youth. Those are skills you get to take with you no matter if you choose to stay in the church or not.

A lot of society babies their youth right now with adults planning and entertaining them in all aspects of their life. We force them to come out of comfort zones pretty early in a safe place to grow.

I do think without some changes, the church was at risk of losing strong and capable young women. The gulf between the opportunities the world was offering and the church was becoming a canyon. Telling them that the boys they grew up with would be their leaders is a tough sell when they are performing at least equally in school and leadership. I think that's a big reason the church increased mission opportunities for women and clarified temple language. These young women are strong and ready without a lot of mental garbage from the past about their capabilities in serving the world at large.

I still believe that motherhood is the highest and noblest calling for a woman.

Mothers not only give life, they literally feed the hungry, clothe the naked and administer to the sick daily: the children. Who could be defined as "the least of these" more than a child?

I disagree almost entirely with your last paragraph.

I agree there is a gulf, but it has always been that what the world offers is nothing in comparison to what the true gospel of Jesus Christ offers.

That which is despised here on earth will be praised in heaven. That which is praised by the world will be counted but little in heaven.

he fact is that in modern society women need to prepare for a higher education if they are intellectually able. They also need to prepare for a career so they can support their children or spouse if the worst happens. Or so they can have a full life waiting for that spouse.

Sister Wendy Nelson didn't just sit around waiting for her prince charming. She went to college, became a professor, wrote books, and developed a life that attracted the right sort of man when he came around, even if she waited until her 50's for it to happen.

I have no idea what Wendy Nelson was like prior to her marriage to President Nelson. Was she shy? Was she waiting for Mr. Perfect? Was she just not interested in relationships? Who knows? Ambition, of course, is a great thing but like many women who gain a lot of money or education, she wound up married long past the time she could have children, and thus, as opposed to his first wife, did not reproduce at all.

And yes, I do agree that young women need to prepare themselves just in case they wind up unmarried or if they need to contribute financially for the family to survive. That should just not be prioritized over marriage and family. In fact, as President Hinckley stated, if a woman has an opportunity to marry she should not even consider putting it off for a mission.

By the way, have LDS leaders given Trump his family history?

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org.nz/artic ... e-minister

I know everyone’s expecting me to be a misogynist pig but I have no problem with women working and think that women should have the same education as men. And should go on missions and have a life. I’m no barefoot and pregnant favoring kinda guy. Shocker I know

The other day when my wife was in the kitchen she kept coming into the living room and nagging me about various things. It was then that I realized the chain was too long.

(This is a joke by the way)

I know everyone’s expecting me to be a misogynist pig but I have no problem with women working and think that women should have the same education as men.

Who said otherwise?

And should go on missions and have a life.

Unless they have someone wanting to marry them, sure, why not? If they are in a relationship they should not go on a mission.

I’m no barefoot and pregnant favoring kinda guy.

That term was invented by the population control movement to stigmatize women who cherished the idea of having large families.

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 1:17 am By the way, have LDS leaders given Trump his family history?

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org.nz/artic ... e-minister

Nope, they have not. Or if they have, they've kept it completely quiet, which would be odd and totally uncharacteristic of them, as they've announced to all the ends of the earth every other time they've given the U.S. president his family history (and any politician/famous person). They gave BO's his a mere 6 months after he entered office the first time. Here Trump is winding down his first term, and no sign of his family history anywhere....
Gotta love that they fall all over themselves to give this apostate, ex-Mormon her family history ASAP, but give Trump his? Nah, can't be bothered.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:27 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 1:17 am By the way, have LDS leaders given Trump his family history?

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org.nz/artic ... e-minister

Nope, they have not. Or if they have, they've kept it completely quiet, which would be odd and totally uncharacteristic of them, as they've announced to all the ends of the earth every other time they've given the U.S. president his family history (and any politician/famous person). They gave BO's his a mere 6 months after he entered office the first time. Here Trump is winding down his first term, and no sign of his family history anywhere....
Gotta love that they fall all over themselves to give this apostate, ex-Mormon her family history ASAP, but give Trump his? Nah, can't be bothered.

The First Presidency discussed the defense of religious liberty and welfare principles with Pres. Trump on his visit. They also gave him a lovely Christus Statue. All those issues seem pretty important to me..

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 9b535.html

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:44 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:27 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 1:17 am By the way, have LDS leaders given Trump his family history?

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org.nz/artic ... e-minister

Nope, they have not. Or if they have, they've kept it completely quiet, which would be odd and totally uncharacteristic of them, as they've announced to all the ends of the earth every other time they've given the U.S. president his family history (and any politician/famous person). They gave BO's his a mere 6 months after he entered office the first time. Here Trump is winding down his first term, and no sign of his family history anywhere....
Gotta love that they fall all over themselves to give this apostate, ex-Mormon her family history ASAP, but give Trump his? Nah, can't be bothered.

The First Presidency discussed the defense of religious liberty and welfare principles with Pres. Trump on his visit. They also gave him a lovely Christus Statue. All those issues seem pretty important to me..

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 9b535.html

Yes, I'm aware of Trump visiting Welfare Square (note, HE came to the Church - the Church did not come to him). It's beside the point, however. The Church gave the rapist-in-chief his family history. The Church gave the Marxist Muslim BO his family history. The Church has not given Trump his family history.

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:44 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:27 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 1:17 am By the way, have LDS leaders given Trump his family history?

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org.nz/artic ... e-minister

Nope, they have not. Or if they have, they've kept it completely quiet, which would be odd and totally uncharacteristic of them, as they've announced to all the ends of the earth every other time they've given the U.S. president his family history (and any politician/famous person). They gave BO's his a mere 6 months after he entered office the first time. Here Trump is winding down his first term, and no sign of his family history anywhere....
Gotta love that they fall all over themselves to give this apostate, ex-Mormon her family history ASAP, but give Trump his? Nah, can't be bothered.

The First Presidency discussed the defense of religious liberty and welfare principles with Pres. Trump on his visit. They also gave him a lovely Christus Statue. All those issues seem pretty important to me..

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 9b535.html

Did they pick up the statue at Deseret Bookstore?

So they talked policy but did not gush all over him like they have more left-leaning politicians

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:21 am

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:44 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:27 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 1:17 am By the way, have LDS leaders given Trump his family history?

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org.nz/artic ... e-minister

Nope, they have not. Or if they have, they've kept it completely quiet, which would be odd and totally uncharacteristic of them, as they've announced to all the ends of the earth every other time they've given the U.S. president his family history (and any politician/famous person). They gave BO's his a mere 6 months after he entered office the first time. Here Trump is winding down his first term, and no sign of his family history anywhere....
Gotta love that they fall all over themselves to give this apostate, ex-Mormon her family history ASAP, but give Trump his? Nah, can't be bothered.

The First Presidency discussed the defense of religious liberty and welfare principles with Pres. Trump on his visit. They also gave him a lovely Christus Statue. All those issues seem pretty important to me..

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 9b535.html

Did they pick up the statue at Deseret Bookstore?

So they talked policy but did not gush all over him like they have more left-leaning politicians

Too true. Did you see the photos of Ballard and Uchtdorf crying tears of joy as they personally attended BO's inauguration?? Did any official representatives of the Church attend Trump's inauguration?

Too true. Did you see the photos of Ballard and Uchtdorf crying tears of joy as they personally attended BO's inauguration?? Did any official representatives of the Church attend Trump's inauguration?

They sent the musical group formally known as the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:21 am

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:44 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:27 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 1:17 am By the way, have LDS leaders given Trump his family history?

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org.nz/artic ... e-minister

Nope, they have not. Or if they have, they've kept it completely quiet, which would be odd and totally uncharacteristic of them, as they've announced to all the ends of the earth every other time they've given the U.S. president his family history (and any politician/famous person). They gave BO's his a mere 6 months after he entered office the first time. Here Trump is winding down his first term, and no sign of his family history anywhere....
Gotta love that they fall all over themselves to give this apostate, ex-Mormon her family history ASAP, but give Trump his? Nah, can't be bothered.

The First Presidency discussed the defense of religious liberty and welfare principles with Pres. Trump on his visit. They also gave him a lovely Christus Statue. All those issues seem pretty important to me..

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 9b535.html

Yes, I'm aware of Trump visiting Welfare Square (note, HE came to the Church - the Church did not come to him). It's beside the point, however. The Church gave the rapist-in-chief his family history. The Church gave the Marxist Muslim BO his family history. The Church has not given Trump his family history.

Trying to follow your logic here. Does giving the President research on who his great great grandpa was trump (pun intended) giving him a statue of who is at the head of our church and to whom we look for our salvation? Do you feel the Brethren are slighting Trump by just giving him a Christus while they showed favoritism toward Obama and Clinton because they had a church genealogist trace their family trees?

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 7:15 am

I know everyone’s expecting me to be a misogynist pig but I have no problem with women working and think that women should have the same education as men.

Who said otherwise?

And should go on missions and have a life.

Unless they have someone wanting to marry them, sure, why not? If they are in a relationship they should not go on a mission.

I’m no barefoot and pregnant favoring kinda guy.

That term was invented by the population control movement to stigmatize women who cherished the idea of having large families.

I personally love going barefoot. I've always hated having my feet in shoes.

I never -love- being pregnant. (Hard on the body.) But I always love that I am going to have a baby.

So, whoever invented the phrase, I guess I do love being barefoot and pregnant.

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 10:27 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:21 am

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:44 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:27 am

Nope, they have not. Or if they have, they've kept it completely quiet, which would be odd and totally uncharacteristic of them, as they've announced to all the ends of the earth every other time they've given the U.S. president his family history (and any politician/famous person). They gave BO's his a mere 6 months after he entered office the first time. Here Trump is winding down his first term, and no sign of his family history anywhere....
Gotta love that they fall all over themselves to give this apostate, ex-Mormon her family history ASAP, but give Trump his? Nah, can't be bothered.

The First Presidency discussed the defense of religious liberty and welfare principles with Pres. Trump on his visit. They also gave him a lovely Christus Statue. All those issues seem pretty important to me..

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 9b535.html

Yes, I'm aware of Trump visiting Welfare Square (note, HE came to the Church - the Church did not come to him). It's beside the point, however. The Church gave the rapist-in-chief his family history. The Church gave the Marxist Muslim BO his family history. The Church has not given Trump his family history.

Trying to follow your logic here. Does giving the President research on who his great great grandpa was trump (pun intended) giving him a statue of who is at the head of our church and to whom we look for our salvation? Do you feel the Brethren are slighting Trump by just giving him a Christus while they showed favoritism toward Obama and Clinton because they had a church genealogist trace their family trees?

To be honest, I'm more concerned about the Christus statue.
The church really seems to have embraced graven images just lately.

Do you feel the Brethren are slighting Trump by just giving him a Christus while they showed favoritism toward Obama and Clinton because they had a church genealogist trace their family trees?

Yep.

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:33 am

Too true. Did you see the photos of Ballard and Uchtdorf crying tears of joy as they personally attended BO's inauguration?? Did any official representatives of the Church attend Trump's inauguration?

They sent the musical group formally known as the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

Oh that's right - well, good enough then....

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 10:27 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:21 am

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:44 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:27 am

Nope, they have not. Or if they have, they've kept it completely quiet, which would be odd and totally uncharacteristic of them, as they've announced to all the ends of the earth every other time they've given the U.S. president his family history (and any politician/famous person). They gave BO's his a mere 6 months after he entered office the first time. Here Trump is winding down his first term, and no sign of his family history anywhere....
Gotta love that they fall all over themselves to give this apostate, ex-Mormon her family history ASAP, but give Trump his? Nah, can't be bothered.

The First Presidency discussed the defense of religious liberty and welfare principles with Pres. Trump on his visit. They also gave him a lovely Christus Statue. All those issues seem pretty important to me..

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 9b535.html

Yes, I'm aware of Trump visiting Welfare Square (note, HE came to the Church - the Church did not come to him). It's beside the point, however. The Church gave the rapist-in-chief his family history. The Church gave the Marxist Muslim BO his family history. The Church has not given Trump his family history.

Trying to follow your logic here. Does giving the President research on who his great great grandpa was trump (pun intended) giving him a statue of who is at the head of our church and to whom we look for our salvation? Do you feel the Brethren are slighting Trump by just giving him a Christus while they showed favoritism toward Obama and Clinton because they had a church genealogist trace their family trees?

Well gee, I don't know - is a lump of clay (that could be argued is an idol, which we are not to have anything to do with) really helping anyone, saving anyone, doing anything but collecting dust? Not that I'm aware of. However, our Church teaches that our FAMILY HISTORY and GENEALOGY is extremely important - not only so that our ancestors temple work may be done some day, but in getting to know our roots, where we come from, who we come from - you know, FAMILY. So yes, I do feel the Church slighted Trump by giving him a little statue (Matthew 6:19,21) rather than his FAMILY HISTORY. You are aware that a statue of Jesus is not the head of our Church, and a statue of Jesus is not who we look to for our salvation, right?? You are also aware that the importance of our family histories/genealogies are preached to us CONSTANTLY in this Church, right?? So that's my "logic", Mark. They gave Clinton, BO, the Bushes, et al, information that is potentially eternally significant to untold numbers of souls in their families. They gave Trump a lump of clay that will do nothing but collect dust.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 3:15 pm

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 10:27 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:21 am

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:44 am

The First Presidency discussed the defense of religious liberty and welfare principles with Pres. Trump on his visit. They also gave him a lovely Christus Statue. All those issues seem pretty important to me..

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 9b535.html

Yes, I'm aware of Trump visiting Welfare Square (note, HE came to the Church - the Church did not come to him). It's beside the point, however. The Church gave the rapist-in-chief his family history. The Church gave the Marxist Muslim BO his family history. The Church has not given Trump his family history.

Trying to follow your logic here. Does giving the President research on who his great great grandpa was trump (pun intended) giving him a statue of who is at the head of our church and to whom we look for our salvation? Do you feel the Brethren are slighting Trump by just giving him a Christus while they showed favoritism toward Obama and Clinton because they had a church genealogist trace their family trees?

Well gee, I don't know - is a lump of clay (that could be argued is an idol, which we are not to have anything to do with) really helping anyone, saving anyone, doing anything but collecting dust? Not that I'm aware of. However, our Church teaches that our FAMILY HISTORY and GENEALOGY is extremely important - not only so that our ancestors temple work may be done some day, but in getting to know our roots, where we come from, who we come from - you know, FAMILY. So yes, I do feel the Church slighted Trump by giving him a little statue (Matthew 6:19,21) rather than his FAMILY HISTORY. You are aware that a statue of Jesus is not the head of our Church, and a statue of Jesus is not who we look to for our salvation, right?? You are also aware that the importance of our family histories/genealogies are preached to us CONSTANTLY in this Church, right?? So that's my "logic", Mark. They gave Clinton, BO, the Bushes, et al, information that is potentially eternally significant to untold numbers of souls in their families. They gave Trump a lump of clay that will do nothing but collect dust.

I can see it now. Wild Bill and Barry ran home afterwards and proudly showed their family history to Hillary and Michelle and then promptly submitted all of those ancestors names to the Washington DC temple so that the ordinances could begin! I heard that the Donald was so impressed with the church's welfare system that he is contemplating changing the Govt welfare fiasco with the church's model. I already know he is trying to defend religious liberty that is under attack on many fronts. Sounds like a good ally to have. As to the Christus statue I heard he has placed it in His Mar a Lago digs and some of the family are asking for more info about those Mormons who supposedly aren't even Christian. I see baptisms ahead!