LDS Freedom Forum

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:21 am

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:44 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:27 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 1:17 am By the way, have LDS leaders given Trump his family history?

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org.nz/artic ... e-minister

Nope, they have not. Or if they have, they've kept it completely quiet, which would be odd and totally uncharacteristic of them, as they've announced to all the ends of the earth every other time they've given the U.S. president his family history (and any politician/famous person). They gave BO's his a mere 6 months after he entered office the first time. Here Trump is winding down his first term, and no sign of his family history anywhere....
Gotta love that they fall all over themselves to give this apostate, ex-Mormon her family history ASAP, but give Trump his? Nah, can't be bothered.

The First Presidency discussed the defense of religious liberty and welfare principles with Pres. Trump on his visit. They also gave him a lovely Christus Statue. All those issues seem pretty important to me..

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 9b535.html

Yes, I'm aware of Trump visiting Welfare Square (note, HE came to the Church - the Church did not come to him). It's beside the point, however. The Church gave the rapist-in-chief his family history. The Church gave the Marxist Muslim BO his family history. The Church has not given Trump his family history.

To me, it was obvious during this visit how Pres. Eyring was absolutely beaming from ear-to-ear during the photo/video ops w/Trump. My wife and I also attended a presentation by Pres. Eyring in his home ward shortly after the 2016 election. One thing Eyring said that really stood out was a cryptic: "Your prayers have been answered", my wife took it to refer to the recent election, and I agreed with her. I.e., he thought the election of Trump was an answer to many prayers . . . . including ours.

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 6:02 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 3:15 pm

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 10:27 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:21 am

Yes, I'm aware of Trump visiting Welfare Square (note, HE came to the Church - the Church did not come to him). It's beside the point, however. The Church gave the rapist-in-chief his family history. The Church gave the Marxist Muslim BO his family history. The Church has not given Trump his family history.

Trying to follow your logic here. Does giving the President research on who his great great grandpa was trump (pun intended) giving him a statue of who is at the head of our church and to whom we look for our salvation? Do you feel the Brethren are slighting Trump by just giving him a Christus while they showed favoritism toward Obama and Clinton because they had a church genealogist trace their family trees?

Well gee, I don't know - is a lump of clay (that could be argued is an idol, which we are not to have anything to do with) really helping anyone, saving anyone, doing anything but collecting dust? Not that I'm aware of. However, our Church teaches that our FAMILY HISTORY and GENEALOGY is extremely important - not only so that our ancestors temple work may be done some day, but in getting to know our roots, where we come from, who we come from - you know, FAMILY. So yes, I do feel the Church slighted Trump by giving him a little statue (Matthew 6:19,21) rather than his FAMILY HISTORY. You are aware that a statue of Jesus is not the head of our Church, and a statue of Jesus is not who we look to for our salvation, right?? You are also aware that the importance of our family histories/genealogies are preached to us CONSTANTLY in this Church, right?? So that's my "logic", Mark. They gave Clinton, BO, the Bushes, et al, information that is potentially eternally significant to untold numbers of souls in their families. They gave Trump a lump of clay that will do nothing but collect dust.

I can see it now. Wild Bill and Barry ran home afterwards and proudly showed their family history to Hillary and Michelle and then promptly submitted all of those ancestors names to the Washington DC temple so that the ordinances could begin! I heard that the Donald was so impressed with the church's welfare system that he is contemplating changing the Govt welfare fiasco with the church's model. I already know he is trying to defend religious liberty that is under attack on many fronts. Sounds like a good ally to have. As to the Christus statue I heard he has placed it in His Mar a Lago digs and some of the family are asking for more info about those Mormons who supposedly aren't even Christian. I see baptisms ahead!

A+ for always missing the point, Mark (but you have to share that honor with larsenb, I'm afraid). Your telestial view of things is interesting though. If any of Trump's family are so impressed with a lump of clay that it's interested them in the Church (pure, unadulterated speculation on your part, unless you provide first-hand sources - it's just gossip, rumor, etc. but you never mind that if it suits your agenda), just imagine how much more impressed they would have been with their family history?

larsenb wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 6:20 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:21 am

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:44 am

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:27 am

Nope, they have not. Or if they have, they've kept it completely quiet, which would be odd and totally uncharacteristic of them, as they've announced to all the ends of the earth every other time they've given the U.S. president his family history (and any politician/famous person). They gave BO's his a mere 6 months after he entered office the first time. Here Trump is winding down his first term, and no sign of his family history anywhere....
Gotta love that they fall all over themselves to give this apostate, ex-Mormon her family history ASAP, but give Trump his? Nah, can't be bothered.

The First Presidency discussed the defense of religious liberty and welfare principles with Pres. Trump on his visit. They also gave him a lovely Christus Statue. All those issues seem pretty important to me..

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 9b535.html

Yes, I'm aware of Trump visiting Welfare Square (note, HE came to the Church - the Church did not come to him). It's beside the point, however. The Church gave the rapist-in-chief his family history. The Church gave the Marxist Muslim BO his family history. The Church has not given Trump his family history.

To me, it was obvious during this visit how Pres. Eyring was absolutely beaming from ear-to-ear during the photo/video ops w/Trump. My wife and I also attended a presentation by Pres. Eyring in his home ward shortly after the 2016 election. One thing Eyring said that really stood out was a cryptic: "Your prayers have been answered", my wife took it to refer to the recent election, and I agreed with her. I.e., he thought the election of Trump was an answer to many prayers . . . . including ours.

An anecdote - that's at least a little better than Mark's "I heard....." nonsense. How nice that one of the 15 seems to be glad Trump won over the communist Hillary. Too bad the Church and his fellow apostles don't agree with him.

I already know he is trying to defend religious liberty that is under attack on many fronts. Sounds like a good ally to have.

Absolutely correct. Hope the message got through to other LDS people.

However, was the prime minister of New Zealand a convert or a life-long member before she became an apostate over the Church's stand on gay rights? Why give her any genealogy if she was once a member who might have it anyway?

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 7:29 pm

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 6:02 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 3:15 pm

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 10:27 am

Trying to follow your logic here. Does giving the President research on who his great great grandpa was trump (pun intended) giving him a statue of who is at the head of our church and to whom we look for our salvation? Do you feel the Brethren are slighting Trump by just giving him a Christus while they showed favoritism toward Obama and Clinton because they had a church genealogist trace their family trees?

Well gee, I don't know - is a lump of clay (that could be argued is an idol, which we are not to have anything to do with) really helping anyone, saving anyone, doing anything but collecting dust? Not that I'm aware of. However, our Church teaches that our FAMILY HISTORY and GENEALOGY is extremely important - not only so that our ancestors temple work may be done some day, but in getting to know our roots, where we come from, who we come from - you know, FAMILY. So yes, I do feel the Church slighted Trump by giving him a little statue (Matthew 6:19,21) rather than his FAMILY HISTORY. You are aware that a statue of Jesus is not the head of our Church, and a statue of Jesus is not who we look to for our salvation, right?? You are also aware that the importance of our family histories/genealogies are preached to us CONSTANTLY in this Church, right?? So that's my "logic", Mark. They gave Clinton, BO, the Bushes, et al, information that is potentially eternally significant to untold numbers of souls in their families. They gave Trump a lump of clay that will do nothing but collect dust.

I can see it now. Wild Bill and Barry ran home afterwards and proudly showed their family history to Hillary and Michelle and then promptly submitted all of those ancestors names to the Washington DC temple so that the ordinances could begin! I heard that the Donald was so impressed with the church's welfare system that he is contemplating changing the Govt welfare fiasco with the church's model. I already know he is trying to defend religious liberty that is under attack on many fronts. Sounds like a good ally to have. As to the Christus statue I heard he has placed it in His Mar a Lago digs and some of the family are asking for more info about those Mormons who supposedly aren't even Christian. I see baptisms ahead!

A+ for always missing the point, Mark (but you have to share that honor with larsenb, I'm afraid). Your telestial view of things is interesting though. If any of Trump's family are so impressed with a lump of clay that it's interested them in the Church (pure, unadulterated speculation on your part, unless you provide first-hand sources - it's just gossip, rumor, etc. but you never mind that if it suits your agenda), just imagine how much more impressed they would have been with their family history?

Just a little levity to lighten you up Sister. You seem so angry lately with the church for some reason. Did somebody offend you or something?

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:58 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 7:29 pm

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 6:02 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 3:15 pm

Well gee, I don't know - is a lump of clay (that could be argued is an idol, which we are not to have anything to do with) really helping anyone, saving anyone, doing anything but collecting dust? Not that I'm aware of. However, our Church teaches that our FAMILY HISTORY and GENEALOGY is extremely important - not only so that our ancestors temple work may be done some day, but in getting to know our roots, where we come from, who we come from - you know, FAMILY. So yes, I do feel the Church slighted Trump by giving him a little statue (Matthew 6:19,21) rather than his FAMILY HISTORY. You are aware that a statue of Jesus is not the head of our Church, and a statue of Jesus is not who we look to for our salvation, right?? You are also aware that the importance of our family histories/genealogies are preached to us CONSTANTLY in this Church, right?? So that's my "logic", Mark. They gave Clinton, BO, the Bushes, et al, information that is potentially eternally significant to untold numbers of souls in their families. They gave Trump a lump of clay that will do nothing but collect dust.

I can see it now. Wild Bill and Barry ran home afterwards and proudly showed their family history to Hillary and Michelle and then promptly submitted all of those ancestors names to the Washington DC temple so that the ordinances could begin! I heard that the Donald was so impressed with the church's welfare system that he is contemplating changing the Govt welfare fiasco with the church's model. I already know he is trying to defend religious liberty that is under attack on many fronts. Sounds like a good ally to have. As to the Christus statue I heard he has placed it in His Mar a Lago digs and some of the family are asking for more info about those Mormons who supposedly aren't even Christian. I see baptisms ahead!

A+ for always missing the point, Mark (but you have to share that honor with larsenb, I'm afraid). Your telestial view of things is interesting though. If any of Trump's family are so impressed with a lump of clay that it's interested them in the Church (pure, unadulterated speculation on your part, unless you provide first-hand sources - it's just gossip, rumor, etc. but you never mind that if it suits your agenda), just imagine how much more impressed they would have been with their family history?

Just a little levity to lighten you up Sister. You seem so angry lately with the church for some reason. Did somebody offend you or something?

Yes.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 7:32 pm

larsenb wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 6:20 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:21 am

Mark wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 8:44 am

The First Presidency discussed the defense of religious liberty and welfare principles with Pres. Trump on his visit. They also gave him a lovely Christus Statue. All those issues seem pretty important to me..

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/ ... 9b535.html

Yes, I'm aware of Trump visiting Welfare Square (note, HE came to the Church - the Church did not come to him). It's beside the point, however. The Church gave the rapist-in-chief his family history. The Church gave the Marxist Muslim BO his family history. The Church has not given Trump his family history.

To me, it was obvious during this visit how Pres. Eyring was absolutely beaming from ear-to-ear during the photo/video ops w/Trump. My wife and I also attended a presentation by Pres. Eyring in his home ward shortly after the 2016 election. One thing Eyring said that really stood out was a cryptic: "Your prayers have been answered", my wife took it to refer to the recent election, and I agreed with her. I.e., he thought the election of Trump was an answer to many prayers . . . . including ours.

An anecdote - that's at least a little better than Mark's "I heard....." nonsense. How nice that one of the 15 seems to be glad Trump won over the communist Hillary. Too bad the Church and his fellow apostles don't agree with him.

It's anecdotal, true; but a very real experience for my wife and myself. You should be happy that one of the 12 and one of the First Presidency might have this point of view . . . . and I don't think we really know the hearts and minds of the other 14. So your in your last sentence, you are promulging your own believe, which is even less than anecdotal.

larsenb wrote: ↑March 27th, 2019, 4:22 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 7:32 pm

larsenb wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 6:20 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 9:21 am

Yes, I'm aware of Trump visiting Welfare Square (note, HE came to the Church - the Church did not come to him). It's beside the point, however. The Church gave the rapist-in-chief his family history. The Church gave the Marxist Muslim BO his family history. The Church has not given Trump his family history.

To me, it was obvious during this visit how Pres. Eyring was absolutely beaming from ear-to-ear during the photo/video ops w/Trump. My wife and I also attended a presentation by Pres. Eyring in his home ward shortly after the 2016 election. One thing Eyring said that really stood out was a cryptic: "Your prayers have been answered", my wife took it to refer to the recent election, and I agreed with her. I.e., he thought the election of Trump was an answer to many prayers . . . . including ours.

An anecdote - that's at least a little better than Mark's "I heard....." nonsense. How nice that one of the 15 seems to be glad Trump won over the communist Hillary. Too bad the Church and his fellow apostles don't agree with him.

It's anecdotal, true; but a very real experience for my wife and myself. You should be happy that one of the 12 and one of the First Presidency might have this point of view . . . . and I don't think we really know the hearts and minds of the other 14. So your in your last sentence, you are promulging your own believe, which is even less than anecdotal.

By your own account, you are promulgating your own belief about Eyring's words in the meeting you allege to have heard him speak - so it seems we are similar, aren't we, larsenb.

Now, as to the actual FACTS, and back to the point, before you and Mark tried to distract from the truth - the Church (i.e. the 15, as they control everything, and have the only and last say in everything related to 'the Church') has given the U.S. presidents (and other politicians, such as the ex-Mormon, pro-same-sex marriage advocate, leftist New Zealand PM) their genealogies for decades, Republicans and Democrats alike - never missing a single president - until now. It's true that Trump's presidency is not over yet, and they still may give him his genealogy, but tick tock, time is running out. No anecdotes, no alleged experiences, no "I heard...", etc. - just the plain, simple truth of the question that was asked that sparked this 'conversation'. Make of the facts what you will, but they are what they are.

Now, as to the actual FACTS, and back to the point, before you and Mark tried to distract from the truth - the Church (i.e. the 15, as they control everything, and have the only and last say in everything related to 'the Church') has given the U.S. presidents (and other politicians, such as the ex-Mormon, pro-same-sex marriage advocate, leftist New Zealand PM) their genealogies for decades, Republicans and Democrats alike - never missing a single president - until now.

Well, it does seem odd. Who is feeding them their knowledge on US and international politics?

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 28th, 2019, 12:00 pm

Now, as to the actual FACTS, and back to the point, before you and Mark tried to distract from the truth - the Church (i.e. the 15, as they control everything, and have the only and last say in everything related to 'the Church') has given the U.S. presidents (and other politicians, such as the ex-Mormon, pro-same-sex marriage advocate, leftist New Zealand PM) their genealogies for decades, Republicans and Democrats alike - never missing a single president - until now.

Well, it does seem odd. Who is feeding them their knowledge on US and international politics?

I assume there must be a reason for them not giving his genealogy.

Many of the Presidents used different names from the one's they were given at birth (Barack Obama and Bill Clinton are two.) Perhaps Trump didn't want his true genealogy given.

larsenb wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 6:20 pm One thing Eyring said that really stood out was a cryptic: "Your prayers have been answered", my wife took it to refer to the recent election, and I agreed with her. I.e., he thought the election of Trump was an answer to many prayers . . . . including ours.

That's great! This morning I was thinking of miracles throughout history and wondered what miracles we've seen recently in our country and the first thing I thought was the election of Trump.

shadow wrote: ↑March 28th, 2019, 12:18 pm

larsenb wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 6:20 pm One thing Eyring said that really stood out was a cryptic: "Your prayers have been answered", my wife took it to refer to the recent election, and I agreed with her. I.e., he thought the election of Trump was an answer to many prayers . . . . including ours.

That's great! This morning I was thinking of miracles throughout history and wondered what miracles we've seen recently in our country and the first thing I thought was the election of Trump.

That analogy would only hold if you extend your definition of miracles to include things like the 10 plagues.

justme wrote: ↑March 28th, 2019, 12:33 pm

shadow wrote: ↑March 28th, 2019, 12:18 pm

larsenb wrote: ↑March 26th, 2019, 6:20 pm One thing Eyring said that really stood out was a cryptic: "Your prayers have been answered", my wife took it to refer to the recent election, and I agreed with her. I.e., he thought the election of Trump was an answer to many prayers . . . . including ours.

That's great! This morning I was thinking of miracles throughout history and wondered what miracles we've seen recently in our country and the first thing I thought was the election of Trump.

That analogy would only hold if you extend your definition of miracles to include things like the 10 plagues.

That reminds me- another miracle was avoiding the plague of Hillary Clinton.

That reminds me- another miracle was avoiding the plague of Hillary Clinton.

What, you don't like nuclear annihilation?

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 28th, 2019, 12:00 pm

Now, as to the actual FACTS, and back to the point, before you and Mark tried to distract from the truth - the Church (i.e. the 15, as they control everything, and have the only and last say in everything related to 'the Church') has given the U.S. presidents (and other politicians, such as the ex-Mormon, pro-same-sex marriage advocate, leftist New Zealand PM) their genealogies for decades, Republicans and Democrats alike - never missing a single president - until now.

Well, it does seem odd. Who is feeding them their knowledge on US and international politics?

Their leftist advisers, lawyers, etc. SLC is teeming with socialists who loathe Trump - these are the people who feed them information - plus, they probably all watch/read only mainstream news sources. Just read the Church-owned Deseret News and LDS Living magazine to get an idea of what they think of Trump, and then it becomes very clear why they have treated him vastly different than all the other presidents of recent memory. It's astonishing, really, considering.

Michelle wrote: ↑March 28th, 2019, 12:05 pm

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 28th, 2019, 12:00 pm

Now, as to the actual FACTS, and back to the point, before you and Mark tried to distract from the truth - the Church (i.e. the 15, as they control everything, and have the only and last say in everything related to 'the Church') has given the U.S. presidents (and other politicians, such as the ex-Mormon, pro-same-sex marriage advocate, leftist New Zealand PM) their genealogies for decades, Republicans and Democrats alike - never missing a single president - until now.

Well, it does seem odd. Who is feeding them their knowledge on US and international politics?

I assume there must be a reason for them not giving his genealogy.

Many of the Presidents used different names from the one's they were given at birth (Barack Obama and Bill Clinton are two.) Perhaps Trump didn't want his true genealogy given.

If anyone wouldn't have wanted his true genealogy given, it would have been BO - as his paternity (and birthplace status) is very much in question to this day - yet the Church whipped his supposed family history out quick as a flash and presented it to him in the White House a mere 6 months after he entered office the first time.

Their leftist advisers, lawyers, etc. SLC is teeming with socialists who loathe Trump - these are the people who feed them information - plus, they probably all watch/read only mainstream news sources. Just read the Church-owned Deseret News and LDS Living magazine to get an idea of what they think of Trump, and then it becomes very clear why they have treated him vastly different than all the other presidents of recent memory. It's astonishing, really, considering.

I think you are absolutely correct. One's peer group creates a certain norm-setting. That is true of whether someone is a poor farmer in Tibet to if they are an apostle in Utah. It does not take from their role as leaders of the Lord's church, but it does affect how they project their likes and dislikes of political leaders. For instance, while Trump embodies the forcefulness and bullishness of a New York businessman, he has taken on the mantle of being a spokesman from the working class who are struggling to survive in this era of globalization. Most LDS loath being associated with blue-collar or working class values. They embody the lead actress in the British comedy "Keeping Up Appearances." Even if they are poor they do their best to pretend they are not. And they are quick to adopt many of the mannerisms of the elite. So heaven forbid if you are a young LDS woman who likes to shop at thrift stores and eats organic. That does not fit in and I saw instances where such "odd" girls were bullied out of the Church in high school. When I was in college one of my best friends who grew up in the same city as me was your stereotypical redneck. He was devout but one day the institute director asked me why I wanted to hang out with him. Lesson is, if you don't lie in the mainstream middle in appearance or attitudes you will either be shunned or feel alienated. When is the last time you saw a white family portrayed living in a mobile home and having family home evening? And even though now the trendy thing in church publications is to portray a black man and white woman couple with kids, they homes are still typical middle class. So too the political values - the Church may as well have Dick Cheney and George Bush as consultants in regards to keeping up on political issues; I mean, they are safe, establishment, NWO Republicans.