LDS Freedom Forum

They do. And I think that's okay.

I was at the park yesterday with a couple younger cousins, both young boys. I was chilling on a bench and they were play-fighting on the grass close by. Nothing serious, just some good healthy rough housing. This random lady walks up and starts chastising me for not breaking them up and how careless I am etc.

Am I alone in thinking that fighting is good for boys?

Rough-housing is good for boys. As long as you had your eye on them, to make sure no one got seriously injured, like a broken leg, the nosy woman should have chilled out. She would have boys and men be a bunch of metro-sexual sissies. Just wait until the serious tribulations start, and see how long the sissy-men last.

My brother and I would wrestle, rough house, and fight all the time.

Even I liked to rough house when I was a kid

It’s normal and fine !

We fought like crazy when I was growing up, we weren’t afraid of bullies either, Now it’s assault if you just touch someone, and people take advantage of it. I thought no we should go back to duels.

It’s normal and actually necessarily healthy - as long as all are having fun. Jordan Peterson talked about how this need to rough house and play is so strong that even rats showed it - but similar to humans they had rules. The weaker one had to initiate and the stronger one had to let the weaker one win some of the time - basically make it fun for both.

I even kind of wrestled with my younger brother - I’d play music and “dance” rough and jokingly with him - & I think he had fun too. But then he got bigger than me and kicked my butt.

Even though I had brothers, I mostly had sisters and had more to learn about boys as a mom. I suppose I once acted naively & jumped to conclusions a little like that lady did... I heard my son “roasting” his friend - to me it sounded like he was rudely putting him down & as his mom - I felt I needed to correct him. Then I realized his friends would do that to him and each other - it was in good fun - as friends. But I admit, I still get a little nervous because it seems like when they wrestle - it starts out fun for all but sometimes ends up going too far and someone gets hurt and mad.

Boys and girls are different in significant ways...

Spoiler

I took the family out swimming last summer. Two couples with several kids showed up. The mother was busy with the youngest and her friend, sister or whatever. The older kids got into the water with the fathers. A middle kid got in and appeared afraid to venture out into the water with everyone else. The father encouraged him but the kid just got more scared. Finally the father went over and tossed the kid over his shoulders and into the deeper water. The mothers on the beach appeared not to like what he did, one could easily tell that. But when the kid tried to get back to shore the father, both encouraging as well as laughing, tossed him back in. Long story short the kid was soon playing with the older kids and having a great time.

I think this is one of the major problems with women raising kids alone, especially boys, and without a father. Had no father been at that beach the mother would have probably had her son come to her and sit with her and the other mother. Fathers will often show little pity on a son who is afraid of challenging himself. I remember when one of my daughters was learning to ride a bike. She, like most kids, fell down and scraped her knee. It was bleeding but I encouraged her to keep on trying. She did and was very pleased with herself. When we got home I washed off the wound and sprayed some bactine on it. She of course then wanted to go out and ride again.

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 20th, 2019, 11:27 pm I took the family out swimming last summer. Two couples with several kids showed up. The mother was busy with the youngest and her friend, sister or whatever. The older kids got into the water with the fathers. A middle kid got in and appeared afraid to venture out into the water with everyone else. The father encouraged him but the kid just got more scared. Finally the father went over and tossed the kid over his shoulders and into the deeper water. The mothers on the beach appeared not to like what he did, one could easily tell that. But when the kid tried to get back to shore the father, both encouraging as well as laughing, tossed him back in. Long story short the kid was soon playing with the older kids and having a great time.

I think this is one of the major problems with women raising kids alone, especially boys, and without a father. Had no father been at that beach the mother would have probably had her son come to her and sit with her and the other mother. Fathers will often show little pity on a son who is afraid of challenging himself. I remember when one of my daughters was learning to ride a bike. She, like most kids, fell down and scraped her knee. It was bleeding but I encouraged her to keep on trying. She did and was very pleased with herself. When we got home I washed off the wound and sprayed some bactine on it. She of course then wanted to go out and ride again.

I think its about truly looking out for your children more than anything else. A parent, of either gender, can encourage and push their children to face their fears and hesitations to help them grow and have confidence and to not be wimps. I do it all the time as a parent and the smile and confidence I see as a result is worth it.

There is no doubt a special place for fathers and a special bond that needs to happen between fathers and sons. I wish more mothers would do more of this but I personally believe its because she doesnt want to do the activity herself. In your story, the child would have sat with the mom because she likely didnt want to go out there to swim herself. This is why I think alot of it is not about gender but about caring for and looking out for your children more than yourself. Fathers are often more willing to get in there and participate in all the activities themselves and women have other things they are doing, probably because shes taking her break from kids. It all works out with 2 parents one way or another.

There is a difference between rough housing and fighting. If I see my kids hitting other kids, they are getting a time out immediately and they must also apologize to the other kid. Another kid punched my son in the nose when they were 3 years old and drew blood. That child's parents made sure to have him apologize to our son and ask if they could still be friends.

The random tackling, rolling, and laughing is appropriate. If your kids were legit kicking, punching, and screaming at each other....then the woman has a case against you. Otherwise, she should mind her own business.

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 20th, 2019, 11:27 pm I took the family out swimming last summer. Two couples with several kids showed up. The mother was busy with the youngest and her friend, sister or whatever. The older kids got into the water with the fathers. A middle kid got in and appeared afraid to venture out into the water with everyone else. The father encouraged him but the kid just got more scared. Finally the father went over and tossed the kid over his shoulders and into the deeper water. The mothers on the beach appeared not to like what he did, one could easily tell that. But when the kid tried to get back to shore the father, both encouraging as well as laughing, tossed him back in. Long story short the kid was soon playing with the older kids and having a great time.

I think this is one of the major problems with women raising kids alone, especially boys, and without a father. Had no father been at that beach the mother would have probably had her son come to her and sit with her and the other mother. Fathers will often show little pity on a son who is afraid of challenging himself. I remember when one of my daughters was learning to ride a bike. She, like most kids, fell down and scraped her knee. It was bleeding but I encouraged her to keep on trying. She did and was very pleased with herself. When we got home I washed off the wound and sprayed some bactine on it. She of course then wanted to go out and ride again.

Apparently my dad threw me into
Lake Powell when I was 3 with a "you're a *Jones* and *Joneses* waterski!* (last name changed, obviously). Of course I was crying and didn't want to ride on the tube. The next day, the adults were sitting around talking about how sore they were from all the skiing and realized I, too, was sore from hanging on to the tube. The story goes that my dad felt so bad that he let me buy a big bag of penny candy at that convenience store carved into the redrock outside of Bullfrog. Another waterskiing story...we were at Echo Reservoir and my brother who was probably 8 at the time was crying about being in the cold water. My parents drove over to him, handed him the orange flag and drove off. Anyway, just some funny memories.

When I think about it, though, I would say my mom was way harder on us, especially my brothers, than my dad was, as far as pushing us outside our comfort zone.

I would say that personality has more to do with whether a parent, mom or dad, is going to push their kid or coddle their kid. I probably push my kids more because of the way I was raised than my husband does even though he is a very typical masculine type guy.

Some parents have had to result to sending their kids out with cards stating that they are allowed to roam around and play.



http://www.freerangekids.com/wp-content ... red-v2.pdf

A friend of my wife, a single mother of two boys stopped by a while back so her sons could play with ours. They were out riding their bikes, on the grass mind you, and she has her poor kid in full body armor. He had knee and elbow pads, a chest protector along with a helmet. My son fell off of his bike and she jumps up and screams in total panic. My son picked himself and the bike up and brushed himself off and looked at the lady like she was crazy.

markharr wrote: ↑March 21st, 2019, 9:40 am Some parents have had to result to sending their kids out with cards stating that they are allowed to roam around and play.

Reminds me of the cards that Utah missionaries carry to prove that they aren't escapees from the MTC.

Thats why BOTH parents are needed. A dad to help toughen the kids up within reason, and a mom to reign it in when it gets out of hand and to jerk a knot in daddy's tail when he's not paying attention.

The first problem here is not the boys fighting. It's busy-body old bags who try to find fault with everything masculine, either because they had and abusive male figure in their lives, or maybe because they were not born male.

The second problem is that Church Members do not know how to tell people to piss off!

I recently bought a book by James Cagney: Cagney by Cagney (an early song-and-dance man and screen star . . . type-cast as a tough guy too much of the time). One of the intriging aspects of the book was his description of how all the boys in his family had to defend themselves in various fist fights . . . constantly. It was expected, especially growing up in some of the tough neighborhoods of Manhattan.

One fight, Cagney entered into concerned a local tough named Willie Carney. Carney had beaten Cagney's younger brother up over a ball his brother owned, and when Cagney heard that Carney was in another fight, he went to look him up. Carney had already put his oponent on the ground, so Cagney volunteered to take his place, which Carney agreed to. The fight went on for 3 days, each time being broken up by the police, and each time surrounded by a crowd 12 deep.

At one point, Cagney says "one compassionate little Jewish lady kept saying: "These boys are killing each other. Where are their mothers?" Interestingly, my mother was there - - right in the front ranks, watching her boy take care of things . . . . "

That's the way it was. Ever watch the earlier Westerns (and even later ones) and notice how many fistfights there are or would be? I think it reflects the earlier reality. Men were expected to defend their honor against false accusations and slurs, and especially to defend the honor of womenfolk.

The problem her is adherents to satanic feminism trying to demand that boys act exactly like girls because of a nonsensical belief that boys and girls are the same, but boys are badly behaved girls. Boys need to be boys just as girls need to be girls.

Imagine if adults - especially women - handled things the way boys do...

Spoiler

brianj wrote: ↑March 22nd, 2019, 11:47 pm The problem her is adherents to satanic feminism trying to demand that boys act exactly like girls because of a nonsensical belief that boys and girls are the same, but boys are badly behaved girls. Boys need to be boys just as girls need to be girls.

Pre feminist pioneer women didn't approve of fighting either. Women in days of old were the moral backbone, and the ones who brought in education, civility and refinement to the new world, and the west. Where they differed from their modern crazy feminist counterparts, is they didn't go off the deep end like they do now.

What is starting to worry me now is the idea that conservatives should now bash women and mothers for acting like women and mothers and fussing when they see their boys fight. To some extent they SHOULD. There ought to be a constant tug of war in this area to keep balance. Nothing is so off putting to me as the thought of a mom pushing her kid back into a circle of scrappers, screaming at him to toughen up.

Anyone remember the Andy Griffeth episode where the boys were fighting and miss Crummel decided to call the moms together to reign it on? Want to go back to old school, the let's go back to d school. Dad asks if the kid won while mom throws a fit and calls a neighborhood meeting.