"few there be that find it"

[I AM]

"And it came to pass that when Jesus had ended these sayings he said unto his disciples: Enter ye in at the strait gate; for strait is the gate, and narrow is the way that leads to life, and few there be that find it; but wide is the gate, and broad the way which leads to death, and many there be that travel therein, until the night cometh, wherein no man can work."
3 Nephi 27:33

will we find it ? or be led away captive as they were ?


32 But behold, it sorroweth me because of the fourth generation from this generation, for they are led away captive by him even as was the son of perdition; for they will sell me for silver and for gold, and for that which moth doth corrupt and which thieves can break through and steal. And in that day will I visit them, even in turning their works upon their own heads.

[LukeAir2008]

Few means few. Not very many. Hardly any. Certainly not 16 million. Not even 16 thousand. Maybe 1600.

[tmac]

And maybe only 16.

It's hard to say. We don't now how many people lived in the City of Enoch. And, we don't know how many people came and went in the 200 years following Christ's visit to this country.

But in this dispensation, and especially in the last 100 years or so, I think 99.99% of so-called "active" church members (which is somewhere less than 50% of total church membership) go around in some kind of pipe dream that if they are baptized, married in the temple, and halfway try to keep the 10 Commandments -- the laws of the Telestial Kingdom -- they are legitimate candidates for exaltation. But realistically, I would say Terrestrial Kingdom. Maybe.

[LukeAir2008]

Yes I believe that most Church members are heading for the Terrestial Kingdom along with other sincere christians. They are maybe honorable people compared to the rest of the world but certainly not valiant.

[Durzan]

Remember that there have been hundreds of billions of people who have lived on this Earth. Millions are definitely few by comparison, and thats not counting people on other worlds, and those who aren't covered by D&C 137. In reality, the number of God's children is countless by mortal standards, and thus the number of Celestial worthy individuals could easily number in the billions or trillions.

Now, while I would hazard to say that at least 50% of "active" church members may not make it to the CK, I cannot say for certain. At the end of the day, it is Grace that ultimately gets those who are worthy into God's Kingdom, and His ways are not our ways.

[tmac]

At the end of the day, it is Grace that ultimately gets those who are worthy into God's Kingdom, and His ways are not our ways.

Agreed. That's why I lean increasingly toward MMP. It is only by grace that anyone will be "saved" anywhere, but regardless of that, we're not going to a place that we're not prepared for and comfortable to be -- unless and/or until we are prepared and comfortable to be there, which may require some more work (perhaps a lot more work) at changing our basic nature to match the grace that we have been offered.

One of the manifestations of being baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost is to have our hearts fundamentally changed to the point that we have no desire to do evil, but to do good continually. Another manifestation is to be able to speak with the tongue of angels. So, like Alma and Nephi, I would ask, how many of us have experienced that change of heart and tongue? How many of us have no more disposition to go evil, but to do good continually? How many of us speak with the tongue of angels? Because until we do, I don't think we're part of the few who are legitimate candidates for exaltation.

[simpleton]

To be "saved" is one thing, to be "exalted" is quite another. And that should be defined. All, will be saved according to the little scripture we have upon the subject, eventually, except for the "sons of perdition". But only a very few, ( compared to the masses) will be "exalted" to the high state of being able to have eternal increase, worlds without end. Who among us is really truly willing to give our all, to be willing to truly sacrifice our all upon the altar, even our very life? Rather we eat drink and sleep getting financially secure in Babylon, or chase after its vain glory. Most of us cannot stand to have the finger of Babylons scorn pointed at us as Lehi's vision depicted.

[I AM]

According to Isaiah
it's only a "tenth of the tenth" who survive the tribulations,
from the king of Assyria/Babylon.

Isaiah 6

12 For Jehovah will drive men away,
and great shall be the exodus
from the centers of the land.
13 And while yet a tenth of the people
remain in it, or return,
they shall be burned.
But like the terebinth or the oak
when it is felled, whose stump remains alive,
so shall the holy offspring be what is left standing.

Although people may flee the cities en mass in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment, they find scant refuge in the countryside (Isaiah 5:30; 8:22). Using the imagery of tithing—in which the Israelites pay a tenth of the land’s yield to the Levites and the Levites pay a tenth of that tenth to the priests (Numbers 18:24-28)—Isaiah contrasts the many who perish with the few who survive. The “holy offspring” left standing—a tenth of the tenth—compares to a terebinth or oak that can renew itself when cut down. The one who fells the tree/s is the king of Assyria/Babylon, Jehovah’s axe and saw (Isaiah 10:15; 37:24).

[Cheetos]

This may seem like a tricky paradox here and not well understood. The meaning is that very few people who have walked the earth have found salvation in the true church while in their mortal sojourn. The reality though is that in the end Christ saves all except the son's of perdition. And how are they all saved? By entering the strait gate (baptism) and staying on the path until the end of the millennium where the saved will all be pronounced cleansed and spotless.

[JK4Woods]

Few means few. Not very many. Hardly any. Certainly not 16 million. Not even 16 thousand. Maybe 1600.

I don’t agree. I believe everyone who accepts the Gospel of Jesus Christ has found the way.
And who walks the strait and narrow with faith is included.

Put in the perspective of the worldwide population from the beginning until our present day, yes... few have found it...

[tmac]

What is the actual "Gospel of Jesus Christ?"

According to Nephi (2 Nephi 30):

2 Wherefore, the things which I have written sufficeth me, save it be a few words which I must speak concerning the doctrine of Christ; wherefore, I shall speak unto you plainly, according to the plainness of my prophesying.
* * * * * *
13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.
* * * * * *
18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.

19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.

20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

[I AM]

1 Nephi 13

37 And blessed are they who shall seek to bring forth my Zion at that day, for they shall have the gift and the power of the Holy Ghost; and if they endure unto the end they shall be lifted up at the last day, and shall be saved in the everlasting kingdom of the Lamb; and whoso shall publish peace, yea, tidings of great joy, how beautiful upon the mountains shall they be.


D&C 20

25 That as many as would believe and be baptized in his holy name, and endure in faith to the end, should be saved—
26 Not only those who believed after he came in the meridian of time, in the flesh, but all those from the beginning, even as many as were before he came, who believed in the words of the holy prophets, who spake as they were inspired by the gift of the Holy Ghost, who truly testified of him in all things, should have eternal life,
27 As well as those who should come after, who should believe in the gifts and callings of God by the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and of the Son;
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.
29 And we know that all men must repent and believe on the name of Jesus Christ, and worship the Father in his name, and endure in faith on his name to the end, or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God.
30 And we know that justification through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is just and true;
31 And we know also, that sanctification through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is just and true, to all those who love and serve God with all their mights, minds, and strength.
32 But there is a possibility that man may fall from grace and depart from the living God;
33 Therefore let the church take heed and pray always, lest they fall into temptation;
34 Yea, and even let those who are sanctified take heed also.
35 And we know that these things are true and according to the revelations of John, neither adding to, nor diminishing from the prophecy of his book, the holy scriptures, or the revelations of God which shall come hereafter by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost, the voice of God, or the ministering of angels.
36 And the Lord God has spoken it; and honor, power and glory be rendered to his holy name, both now and ever. Amen.


D&C 14

6 Seek to bring forth and establish my Zion. Keep my commandments in all things.
7 And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.
8 And it shall come to pass, that if you shall ask the Father in my name, in faith believing, you shall receive the Holy Ghost, which giveth utterance, that you may stand as a witness of the things of which you shall both hear and see, and also that you may declare repentance unto this generation.

[I AM]

What is the actual "Gospel of Jesus Christ?"

According to Nephi (2 Nephi 30):

2 Wherefore, the things which I have written sufficeth me, save it be a few words which I must speak concerning the doctrine of Christ; wherefore, I shall speak unto you plainly, according to the plainness of my prophesying.
* * * * * *
13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and witnessed unto the Father that ye are willing to keep my commandments, by the baptism of water, and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.
* * * * * *
18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.

19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.

20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

-----------------------
thank you for that.

Christ's doctrine -
After appearing to them and saying who he is and having them touch him so they know for sure who he is, it's Interesting that the first thing he teaches, so "there shall be no disputations among you" is baptism - and the correct way to do it.
Then he says 3 Nephi 11
28 "And according as I have commanded you thus shall ye baptize. And there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been."
He then continues and starts first by saying what his "doctrine" is not, and then what it is.
29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.
30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.
31 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will declare unto you my doctrine.
32 And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.
33 And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.
34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.
35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost.
36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And now comes something which I think is very important.
Was Christ just repeating himself ?
With something SO IMPORTANT, would Christ repeat himself ?
or are these 2 verses 37 and 38 that seem to be the same,
are of GREAT importance ?

37 "And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things."
38 "And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God."
39 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them."
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.
41 Therefore, go forth unto this people, and declare the words which I have spoken, unto the ends of the earth.

[tmac]

Based on all the scriptures that have now been quoted, is there a potential conflict between the need to simply "endure" versus "press forward"? Thoughts?

[I AM]

Matthew 24

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 ¶ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 ¶ Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[I AM]

"Wherefore, ye must press forward
with a steadfastness in Christ,
having a perfect brightness of hope,
and a love of God and of all men.
Wherefore, if ye shall press forward,
feasting upon the word of Christ,
and endure to the end, behold,
thus saith the Father:
Ye shall have eternal life."
2 Nephi 31:20

"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ.
Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
2 Nephi 32

"And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ,
we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ,
and we write according to our prophecies,
that our children may know to what source
they may look for a remission of their sins."
2 Nephi 25:26

"And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one."
3 Nephi 11:36

[I AM]

Isaiah 57:1
1 The righteous disappear,and no man gives it a thought;
the godly are gathered out, but no one perceives that from impending calamity
the righteous are withdrawn.

2 They who walk uprightly shall attain peace,
and rest in their beds.

The term “righteous” or “righteous one” (saddiq) connotes individuals rather than a majority of Jehovah’s people (Isaiah 50:10; 56:3), in particular those who emulate his servant who exemplifies righteousness (Isaiah 41:2; 51:1, 7). The “godly” (’anse-hesed) defines those who have charity, who are true at all times toward others as the Hebrew term hesed implies. In the same way that angels delivered Lot from Sodom before its destruction (Genesis 19:15-17), so the kings and queens of the Gentiles—Jehovah’s seraphs/saviors—gather his elect out of destruction (Isaiah 49:22-23; cf. Matthew 24:31).

While the righteous of Jehovah’s people and the nations inherit peace and serenity (v 19; Isaiah 26:3, 12; 32:17-20; 33:20-24; 54:13-14; 55:12; 66:12), the unrighteous find no peace (v 21; Isaiah 47:11; 48:18-19, 22; 59:8). After the righteous are gathered out from destruction, those who remain suffer calamity as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment overtakes them: “I have charged my holy ones, called out my valiant ones: my anger is not upon those who take pride in me” (Isaiah 13:3). Instead of resting in their beds, the unrighteous find no rest (v 20; Isaiah 23:12; 50:11; 54:15; 59:9-10; 65:14-15).

"Serving as Kings and Queens of the Gentiles"
Hebraeus Foundation Zion Conference 14th May 2016
Keynote Address - Avraham Gileadi

http://www.josephandjudah.com/2016/05/s ... tiles.html

[Thinker]

Few find truth because few are willing to prioritize it above all. Most people SAY they worship God but in practice worship praise of the world. Truth sucks - it’s hard and often not fun - but it also sets you free if you endure and realize the more hopeful side of truth.

[marc]

Based on all the scriptures that have now been quoted, is there a potential conflict between the need to simply "endure" versus "press forward"? Thoughts?

I don't see a conflict; however, there is a distinction to be made between pressing forward and enduring to the end. Alone, either term is insufficient. One can press forward and then quit. On the other hand, enduring to the end without more information is incomplete. We are given a qualified direction in which to endure until we reach the end.

20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

1. Press forward
a. With a steadfastness in Christ.
b. Having a perfect brightness of hope
c. of a love of God and all men.
d. feasting upon the words of Christ.

2. Endure to the end

3. Eternal life

As an equation, it might look like this: 1(a+b+c+d)+2=3

The imagery in Nephi's overarching message is found in the vision of the tree of life. One must press forward in a very specific direction engaged in very specific activities in order to produce a very specific result. We get a similar message from Peter in one of his epistles:

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

There is a lot going on here. We can see the what in Nephi's words with some hows in Peter's words. Pressing forward with steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, having a love of God and all men. In this simple line, we read that faith, hope, and charity are essential. Having a love of God and all men implies the two greatest commandments. What does this look like? Peter breaks it down this way:

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

But Peter also said the following:

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

In other words, if you lack these things, it is as if you were never "purged of your old sins" or as Nephi put it, entered in at the way, which is baptism of water and of the Holy Ghost, being purged of your old sins. And if you have not received this because of that mighty change of heart, then faith, hope and charity are lacking and you cannot "see afar off" or in other words, partaking of the fruit of the tree of life is not in your eyesight. And partaking of that fruit is partaking of the heavenly gift, which is salvation, the greatest gift. Peter refers to it as making your calling and election sure. And that is the "entrance" that will be ministered unto such people who do these things. So what is that "end" to which we minister? I don't ever recall anywhere in scripture that the end refers to our mortal lives. But the scriptures are filled with example after example of the end being the end of that path, which begins with that gate, which is kept by the Savior and employs no servant there and ends with meeting Him and partaking of His heavenly gift, thus partaking of the fruit of your labors and finding rest. This is rending the veil of unbelief. This rest is your grand entrance, the gift of salvation. And few be there that find it.

[brianj]

To be "saved" is one thing, to be "exalted" is quite another. And that should be defined. All, will be saved according to the little scripture we have upon the subject, eventually, except for the "sons of perdition". But only a very few, ( compared to the masses) will be "exalted" to the high state of being able to have eternal increase, worlds without end. Who among us is really truly willing to give our all, to be willing to truly sacrifice our all upon the altar, even our very life? Rather we eat drink and sleep getting financially secure in Babylon, or chase after its vain glory. Most of us cannot stand to have the finger of Babylons scorn pointed at us as Lehi's vision depicted.

I think you are wrong, and I firmly believe that the pyramid diagram that has been used in church lessons and missionary discussions is wrong. For those unfamiliar with what I am referring to, it's a triangle with two horizontal lines dividing the interior. The big body of unwashed masses at the bottom are the people who go to the Telelstial Kingdom, the significantly smaller group in the middle are the decent people who will be worthy of a Terrestrial glory, and the tiny group at the top are the special people who get to live with Heavenly Father forever.

Why do I think this is wrong? Here are some reasons.
God is NOT a loser. I don't believe for a second that he would send billions of us to Earth expecting to never see most of us again. He spent a great deal of time and effort loving us, teaching us, getting to know us, and thinking through how best to place us to maximize the number who return to Him.
We are taught that every single person who dies before age 8 will go to the Celestial Kingdom. In some known societies, and probably many more that are lost to history, infant mortality approached or exceeded 50%. Beyond infant mortality, a significant number died in the next seven years. In other words, well over half the people born in these civilizations are fast-tracked to the Celestial Kingdom.
In General Conference we were taught that the success rate for missionary work in the spirit world exceeds 90%. Since so many of these people will be judged based on the laws they knew, and will do everything they can to repent and become worthy in that situation, many who died unworthy of exaltation will become worthy.
During the Millennium we will see an unprecedented high birth rate with a correspondingly low infant mortality rate of roughly 0%. These people will have trials of mortality but will not have the temptations, distractions, and wickedness that leads so many astray today.

[Cheetos]

To be "saved" is one thing, to be "exalted" is quite another. And that should be defined. All, will be saved according to the little scripture we have upon the subject, eventually, except for the "sons of perdition". But only a very few, ( compared to the masses) will be "exalted" to the high state of being able to have eternal increase, worlds without end. Who among us is really truly willing to give our all, to be willing to truly sacrifice our all upon the altar, even our very life? Rather we eat drink and sleep getting financially secure in Babylon, or chase after its vain glory. Most of us cannot stand to have the finger of Babylons scorn pointed at us as Lehi's vision depicted.

I think you are wrong, and I firmly believe that the pyramid diagram that has been used in church lessons and missionary discussions is wrong. For those unfamiliar with what I am referring to, it's a triangle with two horizontal lines dividing the interior. The big body of unwashed masses at the bottom are the people who go to the Telelstial Kingdom, the significantly smaller group in the middle are the decent people who will be worthy of a Terrestrial glory, and the tiny group at the top are the special people who get to live with Heavenly Father forever.

Why do I think this is wrong? Here are some reasons.
God is NOT a loser. I don't believe for a second that he would send billions of us to Earth expecting to never see most of us again. He spent a great deal of time and effort loving us, teaching us, getting to know us, and thinking through how best to place us to maximize the number who return to Him.
We are taught that every single person who dies before age 8 will go to the Celestial Kingdom. In some known societies, and probably many more that are lost to history, infant mortality approached or exceeded 50%. Beyond infant mortality, a significant number died in the next seven years. In other words, well over half the people born in these civilizations are fast-tracked to the Celestial Kingdom.
In General Conference we were taught that the success rate for missionary work in the spirit world exceeds 90%. Since so many of these people will be judged based on the laws they knew, and will do everything they can to repent and become worthy in that situation, many who died unworthy of exaltation will become worthy.
During the Millennium we will see an unprecedented high birth rate with a correspondingly low infant mortality rate of roughly 0%. These people will have trials of mortality but will not have the temptations, distractions, and wickedness that leads so many astray today.

Yes, it is God's work and glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man and indeed, few will not gain that result in the end. All, except for the sons of perdition, will be raised in I'm mortality unto eternal life.

[tmac]

Yes, it is God's work and glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man and indeed, few will not gain that result in the end. All, except for the sons of perdition, will be raised in I'm mortality unto eternal life.

I'm not necessarily going to disagree with you, but I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that there is much more to the equation than this simple statement, and most people's understanding. And I am also leaning increasingly toward the conclusion that to accomplish what you are describing, it won't simply be the product of one, short mortal probation, but that God may give us as many chances, tests and opportunities as we may need to learn, change, and progress from grace to grace until we get it right. Practice makes perfect.

[Cheetos]

Yes, it is God's work and glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man and indeed, few will not gain that result in the end. All, except for the sons of perdition, will be raised in I'm mortality unto eternal life.

I'm not necessarily going to disagree with you, but I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that there is much more to the equation than this simple statement, and most people's understanding. And I am also leaning increasingly toward the conclusion that to accomplish what you are describing, it won't simply be the product of one, short mortal probation, but that God may give us as many chances, tests and opportunities as we may need to learn, change, and progress from grace to grace until we get it right. Practice makes perfect.

I lean largely to the millennium as the time we prepare. Almost like a new probation in a sense but more like a "real" chance to make things right.

[tmac]

I lean largely to the millennium as the time we prepare. Almost like a new probation in a sense but more like a "real" chance to make things right.

Right. So for all the MMP deniers out there, how is the Millenium not a second mortal probation? We claim that all the babies and young children that have died before the age of accountability, etc., will be resurrected and have an opportunity to learn and grow and prove themselves in the Millenium -- unquestionably a third estate, probation, or opportunity not just to "make things right," but to ultimately prove who and what they really are. And supposedly all the mothers out there who have lost such children will be resurrected and likewise have an opportunity to raise them in the Millenium. How is that not a second probationary opportunity at parenting? In short, how is the Millenium, for some, not another phase in a sequence of multiple mortal probations on this Earth?

[I AM]

Few find truth because few are willing to prioritize it above all. Most people SAY they worship God but in practice worship praise of the world. Truth sucks - it’s hard and often not fun - but it also sets you free if you endure and realize the more hopeful side of truth.

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“People say they love truth, but in reality they want to believe that which they love is true.”