1st Presidency Letter: Financial Responsibility

[Primary Outcast]

The first presidency sent a letter to the wards in my stake stating that on a 5th Sunday of our choosing we need to reiterate the importance of financial responsibility. I can't help but think that this letter is timed to help us prepare for the pending financial collapse.

[simpleton]

Well if there is a financial collapse then you will not have to be financial responsible any more....

[Dlight]

Maybe not a total collapse, but if things turned south and we entered a recession or depression, it could be very miserable for a lot of people with no savings or food storage.

[mes5464]

We got the same letter. I think remind people to be more financially responsible is because the majority of people are anything but financially responsible.

[JohnnyL]

I'd guess it's because the Church pays way too much in rent and mortgage, among other things. When both spouses work, neither has dire spending needs (medical, school, etc.), and they are still in heavy debt, there is a problem somewhere. (Like maybe the $60,000 truck in the driveway?) This happens quite a lot.

[friendsofthe]

One way to be financially responsible is to convert all of your assets that are nothing but numbers on a computer somewhere into something tangible. I'd rather have some land, silver, gold or whatever than have it all blip off the screen when WWIII happens and the entire electrical grid goes down... Something to think about...

[Dave62]

Ok, here is a question for those who have more financial knowledge than I (not a hard ask). If there is a financial collapse is it better to have savings in the bank or a small and manageable debt to a bank? Why? (please keep it simple)

[Fiannan]

I remember when the Church used to discourage using a credit card.

[brianj]

I recall a family in a previous ward. The husband was an attorney, the wife... she didn't work and I won't go into why I had a negative opinion of her.

He took a job as a judge. In that state the government employees were only paid one day per month instead of twice monthly or biweekly. She gave a testimony about what a stress and trial that had been, going two whole weeks without a paycheck, and how they almost couldn't afford their bills. She spoke of how they had been blessed and she needed to be more financially responsible, then almost immediately afterward she buys a big and expensive SUV with a loan.

Unfortunately this kind of thing happens too often in the church.

[Juliet]

Ok, here is a question for those who have more financial knowledge than I (not a hard ask). If there is a financial collapse is it better to have savings in the bank or a small and manageable debt to a bank? Why? (please keep it simple)

I think they would come after you to pay the debt no matter how small. I don't trust people to be on their best behavior in those circumstances.

[simpleton]

Ok, here is a question for those who have more financial knowledge than I (not a hard ask). If there is a financial collapse is it better to have savings in the bank or a small and manageable debt to a bank? Why? (please keep it simple)

Savings in the bank of course. If there are enough threads holding society somewhat together after a collapse, and you owe the bank, but you cannot pay, then they come after you. But if it's the other way around, worst case is, you lose the savings, but, you are free.

[LukeAir2008]

Ok, here is a question for those who have more financial knowledge than I (not a hard ask). If there is a financial collapse is it better to have savings in the bank or a small and manageable debt to a bank? Why? (please keep it simple)

In a genuine financial collapse both of those things will amount to the same thing - nothing.

If it’s a limited or staged collapse then savings will be wiped out or depending on the country guaranteed by the government but debt could spiral out of control with a massive increase in interest rates.

[ElizaRSkousen]

I remember when the Church used to discourage using a credit card.

Not having a credit card is something we’ve taken pretty seriously, and now we are building a house but haven’t had any problems! There’s always a way

[PressingForward]

Well, not having a credit card makes it hard to rent a car, or hotel, or book airline tickets. We both have credit cards, but balances are paid in full every month, and we get 3% cash back! Only time I use cash any more is if a merchant discounts more than 3% for cash.
If you can’t pay your credit card in full every month it should be cut up.

[h_p]

Ok, here is a question for those who have more financial knowledge than I (not a hard ask). If there is a financial collapse is it better to have savings in the bank or a small and manageable debt to a bank? Why? (please keep it simple)

I think they would come after you to pay the debt no matter how small. I don't trust people to be on their best behavior in those circumstances.

That's what I think, too. When we hear the phrase "financial collapse" we tend to think the economy would vaporize into nonexistence or something, but it's probably going to be more like a giant building falling on you. All those people you owe money to will most likely still have some means of squeezing it out of you. Government most likely will not disappear, it will just turn very ugly. And we peons and nobodies will be the first on the chopping block.

[Primary Outcast]

Simple finance:
If the bank owns your house then you don't own your house.

Every time you go out to eat or buy stuff that you don't need you are basically paying double for it because that money could have been used to pay down your mortgage that is constantly compounding interest.

If you have credit card debt then you are living beyond your means, you are prideful, and your heart is not in the right place (obviously exceptions exist).

Anything that you purchase for a sense of status is prideful and it's ungodly.

[thestock]

Save your money. Invest in passive stock index ETFs and bond funds, more of the latter after retirement. Put a good 5-10% of your assets into physical gold, silver, and bitcoin/ethereum.

Pay down debt quickly. Own and drive practical, reliable but not flashy vehicles. Work towards home ownership. Take cost effective family vacations like camping and road trips. Live within your means. Pets are expensive and a luxury, not a need. Stay at home parents can still learn skills and develop an income stream. My wife stays home with our small children. She taught herself photography and apprenticed with a friend. She can make between $300 - $1000 a week depending on how much she wants to work at any given time.

[Thinker]

“All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.” - Matthew 23:3

Financial irresponsibility (which contribute to debt, bankruptcy, poverty and related suffering) is undeniable among those collecting tithes and offerings. Changing scripture from what it states (increase) to mean “income” to get more money, is not of Christ. The reason God commanded tithe be based on increase is shown in the following example:

• 2 men earn the exact same income amount.
  1 man is the sole provider of a family of 7 and after paying bills has no increase left.
  2nd man lives with his parents who pay all his bills, so all of his income is increase.
  Yet, the church demand$ the $ame amount from each man - thereby causing the 1st family to be poor. Christ was about alleviating poverty and suffering - not causing more.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29 (conveniently ignored in lds curriculums) states that tithing collectors are to give at least 1/3 of TITHES to those in need. Christ asked those who can, to give much more.

While we are often pressured and shamed into giving “honest tithes,” church leaders keep money dark and secret, though Oaks did admit no tithes go to the poor. Funds intended for the poor go to the corporate empire of mormon leaders and we have no clue or say in how it’s spent. We do know the church had some elaborate malls built, and a list of greedy wordly companies using the name of Jesus Christ in vain. Meanwhile, about 1,000,000,000 of our brothers and sisters are starving.

Grand ribon-cutting opening by for another mall (3 now) built using the name of Jesus Christ...






Even if you designated fast offerings - the church leaders now say it’s their money and they can use it as they want...

[Fiannan]

I have often wondered if the argument over paying tithing on net or gross income is what encourages many LDS people to go into business for themselves. Let's say you have a man who has a family. He works as a mailman. If he believes you should pay on gross income then he will not deduct travel to and from work, depreciation on his car, and nothing in regards to his home. He just gets his paycheck and pays 10%.

Now let's say his brother has a consulting firm. As a businessman he will deduct all travel expenses, may work at times at home so he takes deductions associated with home expenses, deducts his costs for computer services, and might even lease his car on a company account. No businessman pays on his business income, he deducts everything he can to then pay himself a profit. To him the argument over whether you should pay on net or gross is not applicable.

[JK4Woods]

To me being a “ peculiar people” means not like the normal society.

If every Member was actually out of debt and didn’t have to rely on SS and a 401k and other stock market plans to live out retirement... then they’d be a peculiar people.

[PressingForward]

To me being a “ peculiar people” means not like the normal society.

If every Member was actually out of debt and didn’t have to rely on SS and a 401k and other stock market plans to live out retirement... then they’d be a peculiar people.

Scratching my head here......so if you have no 401k, or no investment portfolio, just exactly how did you save for retirement? Cash under the mattress? Physical gold and silver? Real estate, so you sell 10 acres a year of land you bought?
Even with a house paid for, and all the cars title in hand, you still have property taxes, electricity, insurance(auto, health, dental) hunting license, fuel for heating and driving, food and clothing to purchase. Vacations, maybe some missions(yours and others), monies for charities.........just a short list.
I’m thankful my father taught me to save 10% of everything I make off the top as retirement funds, that before saving for anything else......10% is good enough for the Lord, it’s good enough for you too.
See, I might work in my(and my wife’s) retirement, but not for money, but in service of others.......my 401k, mutual funds, and pensions allow that to happen, glad I’ve got them!

Only debt we have is the motorhome, but the interest is less than my ROI.....
When we purchase cars/trucks, if I can finance at 0% I’m all about it.......that way I can still get interest on my money invested.

[LucianAMD]

Well, not having a credit card makes it hard to rent a car, or hotel, or book airline tickets. We both have credit cards, but balances are paid in full every month, and we get 3% cash back! Only time I use cash any more is if a merchant discounts more than 3% for cash.
If you can’t pay your credit card in full every month it should be cut up.

You don't need a credit card. You can use a debit card for all those things. It has been almost a year and half since we got rid of all our credit cards and it had been great.

[Michelle]

Save your money. Invest in passive stock index ETFs and bond funds, more of the latter after retirement. Put a good 5-10% of your assets into physical gold, silver, and bitcoin/ethereum.

Pay down debt quickly. Own and drive practical, reliable but not flashy vehicles. Work towards home ownership. Take cost effective family vacations like camping and road trips. Live within your means. Pets are expensive and a luxury, not a need. Stay at home parents can still learn skills and develop an income stream. My wife stays home with our small children. She taught herself photography and apprenticed with a friend. She can make between $300 - $1000 a week depending on how much she wants to work at any given time.

My pets give me eggs.

[ThePowerofEternity111]

Tithing came because Zion failed to be established it was wisdom of God knowing the hard heart state of mankind, tithing was to trial if peoples heart was on Mammon or on God, the test was to see if people wanted to give up for God what they earned. Most of LDS doctrine was tests of hearts even the doctrines of exaltation's, the Light wanted to see who was as the ancients and sought to exalt themselves as gods for selfish reasons. And who truly loved God and was happy just be a servant, and to serve others.

I wonder how many truly passed the test and are really worthy of the highest kingdom... The tests applied to every member including leadership. A warning to the saints set not thy heart upon Mammon for it is the first mark of the beast and second cometh after liken to it but of greater account when the Antichrist comes after the current beast is wounded and left in desolation. Beast = system of the world in it kingdom you are already living under it without realizing it, look at what money does to peoples hearts what it leadeth them to seek after and do. To overcome the beast Charity is the key, selflessness more than selfishness, how many saints look after themselves first and that which they love and neglect to aid the most in need and poor by their own efforts, not relying on the church to do it.

Study Mosiah 4 it is a greater truth within it, Mosiah understood a higher knowledge of what mans true state is and the real situations, many of the saints of this generation are puffed up in pride, and see it not and must find that humility in Mosiah and fulfill what he spoke.

[Primary Outcast]

Possible reasons for the lesson:
1) Perhaps there are too many members not paying an honest tithing or a generous fast offering.
2) Perhaps due to upcoming catastrophes, additional funds will be needed, so they are trying to encourage an increase in donations
3) Maybe they want us to reduce our prideful ways of living.
4) Economic collapse is pending