LDS Freedom Forum

I'm late to the game, but we're in our 8th year homeschooling. I take it very seriously for the younger years. I'm open to options for high school (I concur with whoever said jr high was the devil.) The plan now is we'll do part time high school - we'll see if I still say that in a few years. I think there's still some good options for teens like free vocational training that only high schools have. Also free drivers ed....
I think it's a good age to try out all the things that sound interesting so they have a better idea of what kind of career they want.

Most of my education was from public school in SoCal, I dont believe I really learned all that much from it except how to take tests, how to work the system, and how to take the classes needed to graduate that didnt require any effort. The only thing I even cared for was participating in sports. School there is pretty much a joke unless you like school and take honors classes or something but then you also dont fit in with the majority of people. I hated school! it was boring and a waste of time, my real education happened at home with smart and active parents who taught me way more than school did just by being smart themselves and also taught me to figure stuff out myself through research and such.
I homeschool and have for 3 years now. So far its been public school to start then switching to homeschool which I think is a good way to go. Kids learn to follow rules in a group setting and how to stand in line and have a schedule and all the basics including how to read.
I would say that Im serious about homeschool and not sure why the church hasnt encouraged it yet.
Public school is really bad.

I learned quite a bit in high school, especially math (though I rarely use it) and English, history, etc. Yes, some brainwashing. When I learned otherwise, it was easy to change. Had I NOT gone, I never would have been challenged to read things I didn't want to, etc. I probably wouldn't have learned to be anywhere as social, though I wasn't social--more like when to keep you mouth shut, what to say and what not to say, etc.

We did separate into levels, though, something a lot of high schools nowadays don't dare do.

Sorry to have so much to say on this subject, but for a variety of reasons, it is a subject that is both a sore spot, and near and dear to my heart.

I will have to acknowledge that it certainly is possible to learn things in public schools -- even useful things.

Having graduated from high school almost 40 years ago, before the modern concept of home school was seemingly even much of a twinkle in anyone's eye, I am therefore entirely a product of the public/government school system, and college education, and graduate/professional schooling beyond that. But I have reflected many times on how much better life might have been if I my parents had been insightful enough to home-school. My mother had an un-used teaching certificate, so that should not have been an issue. I certainly would not have missed the two hours I spent on a school bus every day from kindergarten through 7th grade, with kids from 5-18, where I received the kind of "socialization" that I would never want my children or grandchildren to have.

In my view, one of the single biggest evils that comes out of the public school system is the inevitable social pecking order that it produces. I could have certainly done without that too.

I recently had a discussion/debate with one of the members of my ward bishopric who is a public school teacher, coach, and has spent his entire life essentially at the top of the local social food chain and pecking order. Knowing that we home-schooled our kids, but our daughter who also lives in the ward married a guy who is the quintessential product of the Utah public school/sports system, this "brother" was asking me what their plans were for educating their kids (the oldest of whom is now 4), which has already become a huge point of contention between them. Because my son-in-law is extremely athletic and was a star athlete in high school, this brother said he could not bear the thought of not having access to these kids in his sports programs (I'm afraid their dad can't bear that thought either). So we got into a long, and border-line contentious discussion about public schools.

Based among other things on my own personal experiences, and because the location where we now live also involves a very long bus ride starting with kindergarten, among other things, I told him I had a hard time swallowing the thought of having my little, soon-to-be 5 year-old granddaughter riding a bus, and receiving the kind of socialization I know for a fact happens there, for two hours every day. He nonchalantly responded, "Oh, I know Clancy, she's a firecracker, she won't have any trouble on the bus . . . I don't think, anyone will pick on her." I responded, "that's not what I'm worried about. She is firecracker, and I would probably pity anyone who did try to pick on her, but after about a week on the bus, she'd be 5-going-on-25, and given her personality I'd be a lot more concerned about her picking up on the propensity to bully and pick on other kids."

He acted like he didn't even get it, and that one of the primary purposes of life is to quickly ascend to the top of the social pecking order -- and having the privilege of doing a little bullying and picking on other kids just goes with the territory -- and in his view, being a high school jock and a star athlete is probably one of the best ways to do that.

I had to tell him that as a former star high school athlete myself (all-state in three sports), and college football player, I had to beg to differ, and we'd just have to agree to disagree. At some point i was fortunate enough to have managed to outgrow all that, but I know plenty of people who haven't, and they seem to have never moved beyond the social peak or valley they inhabited in high school

Bottom line: Among all the other beefs I have with public school, I'm no fan of public school "peer socialization" and the inevitable resulting social pecking order, that so many people never seem to get over. In this rural county where I live, for the most part the high school pecking order is still fully in-tact decades down the road. For the most part, the HS prom kings and queens still live in that bubble, and think they've somehow been crowned for life, and everyone else is second (or third) class. Because we're "move-ins" to this area it may be more obvious to us than it is to those who have lived here their whole lives. But when I go back to the area where both I and my son-in-law grew up, I see exactly the same thing -- especially for him and his siblings, who were all A-crowd jocks, and most of whom still live there. And that is one of the reasons why he struggles in the location where we live -- because in his own right he's essentially a nobody here, and hasn't figured out how to adjust to and navigate the social landscape as an adult. For that reason despite being out of high school for 10 years, and being married for six, he still tries to spend every spare minute back "home" where he can continue to ride the social coattails of his and his siblings' high school glory days.

One thing we should consider is school culture. I do not mean the kids, but rather the teachers. There is a huge difference depending on if they are grade school teachers, middle school or high school.

Grade school teachers are by-and-large the ones who are extremely left-wing. They also treat their classrooms as little kingdoms with the kids as their subjects at best, or substitute children at worse. If the former they will employ any and all means of social control possible to get the children to conform and behave. If the latter, and yes, there are a lot of spinsters or childless-by-choice women, and men I suppose, who project their maternal drives onto the children. No matter, they often see their role as to mold the children's minds to fit whatever agenda they have. Most grade school teachers are also products of teacher programs in college. Aside from the sociology department this is usually the most liberal study in higher education.

Middle school teachers vary as some are trained as grade school teacher and some as high school. I will deal with high school teachers next, but many independent-thinking young people don't discover teachers that will encourage them until they get some high school teachers.

High school teachers take some college education courses but usually they have degrees in their field of study (math, science, social science, etc.). So they are where you find more conservative teachers, but knowing the ones I have known over the years they usually go stealth. These teachers tend to love their subjects and will encourage students to grow. I really enjoyed high school for that fact. And you can usually debate a high school teacher and not get in trouble. Try that with a grade school teacher.

So actually I know a lot of people who have home-taught their kids until middle school or high school. Sure, there are concerns with peer groups and cliques, but at least there is less a chance that your kids will be polluted during their formative years (did you know that a young girl's decision on if she will become a mother or not is generally determined at age 11 and 12?).

If parents teach their children to love God first and foremost, and likewise to love one another, to esteem each other as themselves, to not excell one above another, to honor their parents, to have true charity for their fellow man, to not lie, cheat or steal, or be immoral...... And yet fail to teach them how to read, write and rithmatic. I would consider those parents the most accomplished of all. After all, Joseph was picked to become a light unto this world, or at least picked for light to come through. And when he was called he was ignorant pertaining to this worlds education system. Hence the " wise of this world" rejected him.
What we have today is a mad rush by parents to make their kids movie stars, sport stars, singing stars, wealthy stars etc. And all for what? So we can be "proud" and build up our pride through them?
The public school education system is designed to take your children from you, spiritually, Period. And it has been very successful. Just look around. The scriptures point out that we are in the world, but should not be "of it". Yet we go out of our way to be of it.
I like what was told to an LDS couple, ( the father ) that were praying about pulling their kids out of public school. The father absolutely wanted his children to have/continue their public education. God told him: " if your children never learned another thing, they would be better off with their mother" !!!!!!

So you see the reason for getting mother onto the workforce. Then of course you need day care, preschool, kindergarten, then finally grade school, and by that time they have stolen your children's mind. Although I guess it's not theft, we actually handed our children over gladly so we can continue our mad rush for the almighty dollar....

There are exceptions, but look around....

I do see a need for people to really educate their kids however, whether they are in school or not. For instance, if you never show any knowledge or interest in science, and teach science to them in an in-depth manner, your children may question their testimony when they encounter a TV documentary promoting evolution, a secular science teacher or some BYU professor trying to shatter your kids belief in creation rather than evolution.

We need to show credibility to our kids so we do not come across foolish or ignorant. Yep, that means lifelong learning, just as Brigham Young taught.

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 17th, 2019, 7:47 am I do see a need for people to really educate their kids however, whether they are in school or not. For instance, if you never show any knowledge or interest in science, and teach science to them in an in-depth manner, your children may question their testimony when they encounter a TV documentary promoting evolution, a secular science teacher or some BYU professor trying to shatter your kids belief in creation rather than evolution.

We need to show credibility to our kids so we do not come across foolish or ignorant. Yep, that means lifelong learning, just as Brigham Young taught.

What if you are religious and homeschool AND teach your kids evolution?

What if you are religious and homeschool AND teach your kids evolution?

It depends on context I suppose. If God is in the center then that is okay. I mean, I tell my kids that if smart people don't have as many children as dumb people then the earth will eventually be filled with dumb people. That is an example of evolution.

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 17th, 2019, 8:41 am

What if you are religious and homeschool AND teach your kids evolution?

It depends on context I suppose. If God is in the center then that is okay. I mean, I tell my kids that if smart people don't have as many children as dumb people then the earth will eventually be filled with dumb people. That is an example of evolution.

I never understood why believing in evolution meant you couldn’t believe in god.

It’s like the flat earth to me. The Bible “says” it’s flat, but we know it’s not. That’s fine with me. Knowledge comes from many sources

ElizaRSkousen wrote: ↑March 17th, 2019, 8:44 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 17th, 2019, 8:41 am

What if you are religious and homeschool AND teach your kids evolution?

It depends on context I suppose. If God is in the center then that is okay. I mean, I tell my kids that if smart people don't have as many children as dumb people then the earth will eventually be filled with dumb people. That is an example of evolution.

I never understood why believing in evolution meant you couldn’t believe in god.

It’s like the flat earth to me. The Bible “says” it’s flat, but we know it’s not. That’s fine with me. Knowledge comes from many sources

Where does it say it is flat? The ancients, who were ancient in Biblical days, knew it was round.

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 17th, 2019, 3:22 pm

ElizaRSkousen wrote: ↑March 17th, 2019, 8:44 am

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 17th, 2019, 8:41 am

What if you are religious and homeschool AND teach your kids evolution?

It depends on context I suppose. If God is in the center then that is okay. I mean, I tell my kids that if smart people don't have as many children as dumb people then the earth will eventually be filled with dumb people. That is an example of evolution.

I never understood why believing in evolution meant you couldn’t believe in god.

It’s like the flat earth to me. The Bible “says” it’s flat, but we know it’s not. That’s fine with me. Knowledge comes from many sources

Where does it say it is flat? The ancients, who were ancient in Biblical days, knew it was round.

I put says in quotes because people argue that it says it’s flat, when we interpret it to be symbolism.

So how did they know that?

Fiannan wrote: ↑March 24th, 2019, 12:18 am [img]https://i.redd.it/el4qwrhbb7f21.jpg
So how did they know that?

11-12 planets around the sun, I guess?

I have no love for public school, but I do feel bad for the teachers. Imagine how they'll feel when they realize how much evil they accomplished in the name of doing good?

A disproportionate number of my fellow ward members are/were public school teachers and administrators. Think of the older retired teacher who went to public school from 6-18, college from 18-24, and then worked in a school for 30+ years. Her/his whole memorable life revolved around a bell and school calendar. Is it any wonder they can't imagine a life without public education driving every moment. They literally don't know any better. . . but they should.

Some figure it out, eventually, like John Taylor Gatto.

I'm so glad I can homeschool my kids and end the cycle of abuse.

Michelle wrote: ↑March 24th, 2019, 10:09 pm I have no love for public school, but I do feel bad for the teachers. Imagine how they'll feel when they realize how much evil they accomplished in the name of doing good?

A disproportionate number of my fellow ward members are/were public school teachers and administrators. Think of the older retired teacher who went to public school from 6-18, college from 18-24, and then worked in a school for 30+ years. Her/his whole memorable life revolved around a bell and school calendar. Is it any wonder they can't imagine a life without public education driving every moment. They literally don't know any better. . . but they should.

Some figure it out, eventually, like John Taylor Gatto.

I'm so glad I can homeschool my kids and end the cycle of abuse.

What evil would that be?

I was homeschooled, and am a college graduate with an education degree. I homeschool my children, the public schools in my area have nothing to offer.