Is this dishonest or is it okay?

[shadow]

Not saying who, but such trolling is a paid vocation. Wouldn't be surprised if it was happening here.

Are you admitting that you get your paycheck from Apostates like Snuffer?

[shadow]

The purpose of the Church of Jesus Christ is not to come unto polygamy. If it was the Church of Polygamy and they disavowed polygamy as a practice that would be very confusing.

The Church was all about polygamy.

No it wasn't. In fact, very few actually practiced polygamy.

Are you just trolling me?

Yeah. Just like you're trolling me when you respond to my comments.

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

The Church was all about polygamy.

No it wasn't. In fact, very few actually practiced polygamy.

Are you just trolling me?

Yeah. Just like you're trolling me when you respond to my comments.

Sorry I misunderstood. I'll reply to you seriously. Yes polygamy was widespread. The church itself puts the number at 30% (though this should also be critically examined). Important to note that polygamy is unsustainable as practiced by the Church. Not everyone can be a polygamist. The Male/Female population being near 50/50. Actually in Utah their were more men than women. To use the Churches estimate that 30% (which is not a very few), you are getting close to maximum possible, especially with some taking 20+ wives.

Also polygamy was tightly controlled. It wasn't a free for all. It was reserved for loyal (see righteous) men, and wives were given to them as a reward for their obedience. That's why you see teenage brides "given" to much older leaders. Not because they are necessarily into that, but because there simply aren't enough virgins to go around.

It's a very sad and regrettable chapter in our history.

[Centerline]

I agree, with the male/female population being 50/50 polygamy would be unsustainable. Practicing polygamy in this environment would create a situation where the only available brides, at some point, would be young women, widows, or acquiring a wife from another man.

[Sarah]

No it wasn't. In fact, very few actually practiced polygamy.

Are you just trolling me?

Yeah. Just like you're trolling me when you respond to my comments.

Sorry I misunderstood. I'll reply to you seriously. Yes polygamy was widespread. The church itself puts the number at 30% (though this should also be critically examined). Important to note that polygamy is unsustainable as practiced by the Church. Not everyone can be a polygamist. The Male/Female population being near 50/50. Actually in Utah their were more men than women. To use the Churches estimate that 30% (which is not a very few), you are getting close to maximum possible, especially with some taking 20+ wives.

Also polygamy was tightly controlled. It wasn't a free for all. It was reserved for loyal (see righteous) men, and wives were given to them as a reward for their obedience. That's why you see teenage brides "given" to much older leaders. Not because they are necessarily into that, but because there simply aren't enough virgins to go around.

Actually, it was not tightly controlled. Any male man who was a member could be married to multiple wives, and the authority to seal was also not well controlled either, especially under John Taylor. I think this aspect of it being practiced by anyone so freely was what led to it's downfall. Originally, Joseph tested some of the men he revealed the principle to by asking for their wives. And he initiated this practicing group of men and women into a separate quorum if I recall. Brigham taught the people that they were living in the day of the prophecy when 7 women would cling to one man.

[Chip]

I agree, with the male/female population being 50/50 polygamy would be unsustainable. Practicing polygamy in this environment would create a situation where the only available brides, at some point, would be young women, widows, or acquiring a wife from another man.

In modern Mormon-based polygamist groups, the young men are often expelled from their communities to free up the young women to marry the old leaders. There are many good interviews on YouTube of people who've recently left Mormon polygamy and go into detail about these dynamics. I don't believe there was any magic to the way polygamy was practiced in the church, earlier on, that made it any different. You put people into this circumstance and the same distortions and stresses occur every time. It's like the socialist/communist pipe dream of some utopia that can't be. You can force it, but people will suffer because of it.

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

Are you just trolling me?

Yeah. Just like you're trolling me when you respond to my comments.

Sorry I misunderstood. I'll reply to you seriously. Yes polygamy was widespread. The church itself puts the number at 30% (though this should also be critically examined). Important to note that polygamy is unsustainable as practiced by the Church. Not everyone can be a polygamist. The Male/Female population being near 50/50. Actually in Utah their were more men than women. To use the Churches estimate that 30% (which is not a very few), you are getting close to maximum possible, especially with some taking 20+ wives.

Also polygamy was tightly controlled. It wasn't a free for all. It was reserved for loyal (see righteous) men, and wives were given to them as a reward for their obedience. That's why you see teenage brides "given" to much older leaders. Not because they are necessarily into that, but because there simply aren't enough virgins to go around.

Actually, it was not tightly controlled. Any male man who was a member could be married to multiple wives, and the authority to seal was also not well controlled either, especially under John Taylor. I think this aspect of it being practiced by anyone so freely was what led to it's downfall. Originally, Joseph tested some of the men he revealed the principle to by asking for their wives. And he initiated this practicing group of men and women into a separate quorum if I recall. Brigham taught the people that they were living in the day of the prophecy when 7 women would cling to one man.

I can see your point that it wasn't properly managed, but it did require approval. The top leaders can't be competing for virgins with the ward clerk, and so on down the chain.

"Some men entered plural marriage because they were asked to do so by Church leaders, while others initiated the process themselves; all were required to obtain the approval of Church leaders before entering a plural marriage." LDS.org Gospel Topic Essay

https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... h?lang=eng

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

I agree, with the male/female population being 50/50 polygamy would be unsustainable. Practicing polygamy in this environment would create a situation where the only available brides, at some point, would be young women, widows, or acquiring a wife from another man.

Yep. Exactly what happened. Teenage (children) brides are the unavoidable result.

[Hie'ing to Kolob]

In modern Mormon-based polygamist groups, the young men are often expelled from their communities to free up the young women to marry the old leaders.

This is partially why missionary efforts were so important. As a young man, this was your opportunity to replenish the supply.

[Chip]

I agree, with the male/female population being 50/50 polygamy would be unsustainable. Practicing polygamy in this environment would create a situation where the only available brides, at some point, would be young women, widows, or acquiring a wife from another man.

Yep. Exactly what happened. Teenage (children) brides are the unavoidable result.

Or the serendipitous consequence, perhaps.

[brlenox]

I agree, with the male/female population being 50/50 polygamy would be unsustainable. Practicing polygamy in this environment would create a situation where the only available brides, at some point, would be young women, widows, or acquiring a wife from another man.

Yep. Exactly what happened. Teenage (children) brides are the unavoidable result.

Or the serendipitous consequence, perhaps.

Serendipitous is such a wonderful word...

[John Tavner]

Yeah. Just like you're trolling me when you respond to my comments.

Sorry I misunderstood. I'll reply to you seriously. Yes polygamy was widespread. The church itself puts the number at 30% (though this should also be critically examined). Important to note that polygamy is unsustainable as practiced by the Church. Not everyone can be a polygamist. The Male/Female population being near 50/50. Actually in Utah their were more men than women. To use the Churches estimate that 30% (which is not a very few), you are getting close to maximum possible, especially with some taking 20+ wives.

Also polygamy was tightly controlled. It wasn't a free for all. It was reserved for loyal (see righteous) men, and wives were given to them as a reward for their obedience. That's why you see teenage brides "given" to much older leaders. Not because they are necessarily into that, but because there simply aren't enough virgins to go around.

Actually, it was not tightly controlled. Any male man who was a member could be married to multiple wives, and the authority to seal was also not well controlled either, especially under John Taylor. I think this aspect of it being practiced by anyone so freely was what led to it's downfall. Originally, Joseph tested some of the men he revealed the principle to by asking for their wives. And he initiated this practicing group of men and women into a separate quorum if I recall. Brigham taught the people that they were living in the day of the prophecy when 7 women would cling to one man.

I can see your point that it wasn't properly managed, but it did require approval. The top leaders can't be competing for virgins with the ward clerk, and so on down the chain.

"Some men entered plural marriage because they were asked to do so by Church leaders, while others initiated the process themselves; all were required to obtain the approval of Church leaders before entering a plural marriage." LDS.org Gospel Topic Essay

https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... h?lang=eng

Yeah, they had to receive recommends to marry another woman.

[Thinker]

I suggest that many of you repent of polygamy and move on in your life. Repent of Abraham's polygamy. Repent of Gideon's polygamy. Repent of Joseph's polygamy. Repent of Brigham's polygamy and so on and so forth. If that's what you want then do it! Nobody is stopping you.

I dated 3 guys simultaneously - & have repented - does that count?

http://dbmz6k5r32451.cloudfront.net/wp- ... artoon.jpg

[shadow]

I suggest that many of you repent of polygamy and move on in your life. Repent of Abraham's polygamy. Repent of Gideon's polygamy. Repent of Joseph's polygamy. Repent of Brigham's polygamy and so on and so forth. If that's what you want then do it! Nobody is stopping you.

I dated 3 guys simultaneously - & have repented - does that count?

http://dbmz6k5r32451.cloudfront.net/wp- ... artoon.jpg

Thats funny. I was lucky if I could get 1 date.

My point would be more like your great, great grandma dated 3 men at the same time and someone today claims it was a sin so now generations later some people are offended and want you to repent for what she did.

[Thinker]

I suggest that many of you repent of polygamy and move on in your life. Repent of Abraham's polygamy. Repent of Gideon's polygamy. Repent of Joseph's polygamy. Repent of Brigham's polygamy and so on and so forth. If that's what you want then do it! Nobody is stopping you.

I dated 3 guys simultaneously - & have repented - does that count?

http://dbmz6k5r32451.cloudfront.net/wp- ... artoon.jpg

Thats funny. I was lucky if I could get 1 date.

My point would be more like your great, great grandma dated 3 men at the same time and someone today claims it was a sin so now generations later some people are offended and want you to repent for what she did.

Ok, maybe some seem to be demanding people now repent for what others did in the past. And maybe they want some accountability instead of denial.

But, Shadow, let’s look at the psychological shadow - beneath the tip of the iceberg. Many men fantasize about being with or having multiple women - some do it - but probably most just fantasize. And most in the church would never admit to anyone - not even themselves - about their fantasy. A sin to even think of it!

There is a universal human craving for love - for attention and affection. As infants we’d die without it. We are also sexual beings - but by the porn stats and related issues in the church, sexual repression is obvious. It sometimes comes out as projection... focusing on what others have done which they secretly wish they could do but forbid themselves. For the unthinking masses, this may seem to keep all in line. But for spiritual individual development, the shadow needs to be brought to light or else it comes out in less ideal ways.

That’s not to say there aren’t issues with the church. There are more pressing matters (like financial corruption & dysfunctional teachings) than his-story.