LDS bedroom nightmares

[Benaishtart]

From my experience it seems like there’s a good chance a disproportionate amount of saints have serious serious issues in the marital intimacy department. Lots of exmos bash on us and say it’s all because of our puritanical culture. Some people recently have asserted that it’s because the men of this church our brutish scoundrels who only know how to be abusive and only want to get off. I’ve spent a lot of time outside of Utah and around former members and I constatntly hear that pretty much only LDS women have vaginismus. Or that Utah has the highest amount of p0rn addicts. The only women I’ve heard of (not on the Internet) that genuinely dislike sex are church members. Why are we so ridiculously immobilized on this front? Are lds guys clueless? Are we being programmed to think that other bodies are gross and nasty or something (resulting in lots of lds gays)? Are we somehow cursed? We’re definitely not those romantic Spaniards and Italians with their Don Juan’s and Cassanova’s. What the h*ck is going on?

[Zathura]

From my experience it seems like there’s a good chance a disproportionate amount of saints have serious serious issues in the marital intimacy department. Lots of exmos bash on us and say it’s all because of our puritanical culture. Some people recently have asserted that it’s because the men of this church our brutish scoundrels who only know how to be abusive and only want to get off. I’ve spent a lot of time outside of Utah and around former members and I constatntly hear that pretty much only LDS women have vaginismus. Or that Utah has the highest amount of p0rn addicts. The only women I’ve heard of (not on the Internet) that genuinely dislike sex are church members. Why are we so ridiculously immobilized on this front? Are lds guys clueless? Are we being programmed to think that other bodies are gross and nasty or something (resulting in lots of lds gays)? Are we somehow cursed? We’re definitely not those romantic Spaniards and Italians with their Don Juan’s and Cassanova’s. What the h*ck is going on?

LDS young adults, both men and women, are uneducated when it comes to sex. They get married at 21, the man gets his, the woman doesn't get hers. The woman might not even know she CAN get hers. Fast forward 10 years of that, it's simply not going to be enjoyable. Imagine if more than half the men didn't climax by the time the woman did and they just stopped there. Imagine if that many men didn't even know how to climax, or imagine if it took a lot more effort for the man to climax. You'd see the statistics switched between the two.

It's really not that complicated. You could really summarize the conclusion in one sentence. "She gets hers before he gets his" and you'd see a different attitude towards sex.

There's also a lot of men that manipulate women into having sex because it's their duty and it'd be a sin not to(They may be ignorant to the fact that they being manipulative and abusive, in fact they are usually POSITIVE they are in the right because "they are the man of the house" and have "priesthood"). There's other people who teach nonsense about sex being only for creating babies. Frankly I don't understand how it's not more obvious to you and others why so many don't enjoy it.

[Alaris]

I thought this thread was going to be about things that go bump in the night that are unique to lds.

As for sexuality, it's difficult to teach kids to refrain refrain and abstain and not have some impact later when they're married. Parents are the answer here to teach correct principle. Sex is meant to be thoroughly employed and enjoyed without shame or fear within the bonds of holy matrimony.

[BruceRGilbert]

It has to do with education and culture. Because of external genitalia, the young man is more likely to have experienced sensation and understands how things work. Very few young women understand the workings of their own bodies and, consequently, have no clue how to educate and coach their spouse insofar as intimacy is concerned.

It is akin to the story about the old woodsman who heard wonderful things about a marvelous invention called the "chainsaw." He went to the local hardware store and asked the salesman some questions - primarily, "How many cords of wood should I be able to cut in a day with this thing?" The salesman responded, "Well, it shouldn't be all that difficult to manage about four." With that information, the woodsman handed over the few hundred dollars needed to gain possession of the wonder and headed home to put it to the test.

Early the next morning, the woodsman gathered the tools of his trade - including the new "chainsaw." He feverishly worked through the day and was only able to manage cutting half-a-cord of wood. Discouraged, tired and bewildered - he took his new chainsaw back to the store and laid it on the counter. The salesman came and asked him what was the problem. The woodsman explained his dissatisfaction, "I am use to cutting more wood with my axe and hand saw, than with this contraption!" The salesman took the saw in hand and opened the gasoline tank. He noticed that there was no gasoline. He promptly filled it from a nearby can. The woodsman was looking on with curiosity. The salesman pulled out the spark plug and checked it for gap. Re-installed it, replacing the rubber boot over the insulator. The woodsman was amused at what was transpiring. When the salesman pulled the pull cord and the engine sprang to life, the woodsman jumped back and rejoined, "What's that sound??" It was at that juncture that the salesman knew that the woodsman had no clue about the workings of a chainsaw and needed to be taught.

It is at this juncture that the husband has no clue about the workings of the female body and needs to be taught. With proper training, coaching and education, there is, also, an engine that can purr; that it, too, can meet the measure of its creation.

[Arganoil]

But first we do need to teach our daughters (and sons) that it is OK to explore and get acquainted with their "equipment". Everything within healthy limits, but not off limit.

[LadyT]

a lot has to do with being open. People need to be more open with their kids. My sisters have me a great book about a week before I got married. It was by a paster and his wife. They said not to read it unless you were married or about to be. I gave copies to my nieces when they got married. Sex is supposed to be fun. It's sad how many people miss that part.
People need to think more about what their mate than themselves during sex and it should sort itself out.

[Matchmaker]

Most women do not climax through intercourse but through manual manipulation of the clitoris. That's one of the reasons why foreplay is so important to them. A lot of guys don't understand that process, and , sadly, some of the young women have never been taught that either.

[passionflower]

I thought this thread was going to be about things that go bump in the night that are unique to lds.

As for sexuality, it's difficult to teach kids to refrain refrain and abstain and not have some impact later when they're married. Parents are the answer here to teach correct principle. Sex is meant to be thoroughly employed and enjoyed without shame or fear within the bonds of holy matrimony.

So did I. And I was kind of disappointed to see what it turned out to be.

I know a funny story someone told me about she and her husband on their wedding night, though. For their wedding night, they went to a motel on a beach. After they both fell sound asleep, she awoke to use the bathroom, forgetting that she was married. Her husband then also awoke, and when he saw her standing by the bed in her long white nightgown and long black morticia adams hair, also forgot he was married, and let out a frightened yell. When she turned to see this strange yelling man in her bed she let out a scream. Then he yelled again. Then she screamed again. Then he yelled again. And she screamed. All this finally got them awake enough to recognize each other and remember they were married.

I call that and LDS Bedroom Nightmare. And I think it could be a bit symbolic of a lot of wedding nights!

[Serragon]

This has nothing to do with being properly trained or educated prior to marriage. There are numerous things we are not properly trained in prior to being married. But with the proper attitude, those things get explored and figured out by the couple with an increase in closeness and love. With the wrong attitude, they become problems and reasons to dislike and degrade the spouse. This applies to what happens in the bedroom just as much as any other aspect of the marriage.

When one or both parties in a marriage are selfish and routinely put their needs above those of their spouse the marriage will struggle. When both parties serve the other and put the needs of their spouse first the marriage will be wonderful.

[ElizaRSkousen]

I thought this thread was going to be about things that go bump in the night that are unique to lds.

Me too lol

My views on sexuality have evolved over the years, so have my husbands. As believers in evolution, we tend to be a little more on the “it’s mostly for childbearing” side. The whole idea of someone being ‘good’ or ‘bad’ in bed is actually slightly repulsive to me.

[Alaris]

I thought this thread was going to be about things that go bump in the night that are unique to lds.

Me too lol

My views on sexuality have evolved over the years, so have my husbands. As believers in evolution, we tend to be a little more on the “it’s mostly for childbearing” side. The whole idea of someone being ‘good’ or ‘bad’ in bed is actually slightly repulsive to me.

lol I hope you meant husband's and not husbands. If so your views have truly evolved.

[ElizaRSkousen]

I thought this thread was going to be about things that go bump in the night that are unique to lds.

Me too lol

My views on sexuality have evolved over the years, so have my husbands. As believers in evolution, we tend to be a little more on the “it’s mostly for childbearing” side. The whole idea of someone being ‘good’ or ‘bad’ in bed is actually slightly repulsive to me.

lol I hope you meant husband's and not husbands. If so your views have truly evolved.

yes singular

[David13]

Again I didn't real all responses.

I can say, it seems LDS all, or mostly all have a lot of kids, so I guess it all comes out, or goes in? right and ... productively?
dc

[Davka]

I don't think more education to do this or don't do that is the answer because it's different for everyone. I do think older children, teenagers and young adults should be taught that sex is GOOD. Not that it's good with exceptions. That it is good and that's why Satan is trying to ruin it. That it is good to enjoy it and explore your own body and your spouse's together.

We talk so much about women submitting to their husbands during sex, but we only think of thephysical submission. In my experience, sex took on a whole new level of enjoyment when I trusted my husband enough to submit not just my body but my soul and my heart to him. To be completely vulnerable and in a position (figuratively speaking...) that he could humiliate me, destroy me, hurt me, or break me, but trusting that he wouldn't. This took many years and only happened because of his love and patience toward me and my willingness to take any steps of testing the waters with him until I could fully submit to him. Once I discovered this key, I discovered why men love sex so much, where before I was like most other women wondering what the big deal was. Now in our marriage its not uncommon for the tables to be turned turned where he's too tired and I'm trying to convince him to come play.

Our marriage is closer because of it and I'm not sure if there is a correlation or not, but it seems to me that I am a much more patient and loving wife and mother and simply have more love to give when I am reaching my potential sexually. It's not just about the physical feel goods...different kinds of orgasms release different kinds of energy, and I really think it's related to that.

[Zathura]

This has nothing to do with being properly trained or educated prior to marriage. There are numerous things we are not properly trained in prior to being married. But with the proper attitude, those things get explored and figured out by the couple with an increase in closeness and love. With the wrong attitude, they become problems and reasons to dislike and degrade the spouse. This applies to what happens in the bedroom just as much as any other aspect of the marriage.

When one or both parties in a marriage are selfish and routinely put their needs above those of their spouse the marriage will struggle. When both parties serve the other and put the needs of their spouse first the marriage will be wonderful.

Although I don’t know if actual statistics back this claim, but if lds women are more likely to dislike sex , and sex is taboo for lds youth growing up, why wouldn’t education be a factor?

Having grown up in Utah County, I think it might shock some people how clueless people are about sex, even as they enter their 20s.

Like, I don’t want to go into detail, but there are women I’ve known who lacked pretty common knowledge about the anatomy of males and how intercourse actually works. I seriously think there’s a pretty big lack of education causing these issues.

I know you’d think they’d do some exploring and find things out... but.. I don’t think so. It’s still taboo and an uncomfortable topic for many even after marriage. Unless something or someone opens their eyes to help them realize that , oh, this can be an entirely different experience for me?? I don’t see them changing and enjoying it any more down the road. Some people are hella weird about this stuff man. I knew a seminary teacher that prayed before having sex each time(wth?)

[Yahtzee]

I was fascinated by biology as a teen and knew all the workings of everything. I knew just about everything you could know about sex while still being a virgin. But no thanks to my parents or church leaders who did a great job in the guilt department. So I got it all from medical books and health class. That helped immensely come marriage time, but I can honestly say that after 20 years of marriage, I still feel like I'm sinning. Still!!
Someone really got into my head as a kid!
So yeah, we really need to change how teaching about sex is approached in the church. I've had to correct things my kids were told at church already. Want to mess up a teen? Tell them masturbation is a sin next to murder.

[Alaris]

I don't think more education to do this or don't do that is the answer because it's different for everyone. I do think older children, teenagers and young adults should be taught that sex is GOOD. Not that it's good with exceptions. That it is good and that's why Satan is trying to ruin it. That it is good to enjoy it and explore your own body and your spouse's together.

We talk so much about women submitting to their husbands during sex, but we only think of thephysical submission. In my experience, sex took on a whole new level of enjoyment when I trusted my husband enough to submit not just my body but my soul and my heart to him. To be completely vulnerable and in a position (figuratively speaking...) that he could humiliate me, destroy me, hurt me, or break me, but trusting that he wouldn't. This took many years and only happened because of his love and patience toward me and my willingness to take any steps of testing the waters with him until I could fully submit to him. Once I discovered this key, I discovered why men love sex so much, where before I was like most other women wondering what the big deal was. Now in our marriage its not uncommon for the tables to be turned turned where he's too tired and I'm trying to convince him to come play.

Our marriage is closer because of it and I'm not sure if there is a correlation or not, but it seems to me that I am a much more patient and loving wife and mother and simply have more love to give when I am reaching my potential sexually. It's not just about the physical feel goods...different kinds of orgasms release different kinds of energy, and I really think it's related to that.

My wife has said very similar things. Sex is absolutely a spiritual experience.

[Jamescm]

There are a lot of sentiments to the effect that "he gets his, she doesn't get hers" or "men need to be educated about the female body". It's not the place to detail it, but I feel a desire to respond that we have the opposite problem, but I suspect a similar reason. Sex is taught to be something that "bonds a man and a woman who are married", but the way men and women appraoch it is different not just physically, but psychologically. For women, it seems to be a much more emotionally bonding kind of event, while for men there is a psychologically different emphasis that is left unmet when "bonding" is the sole focus. Sexual drives are very selfish things, and if both partners only ever do things that both of them are perfectly okay with, then one or both of them are probably not being fulfilled.

All that said, I think it's something that's hard to teach and balance, and I don't at all blame the teaching of abstinance. We are best off refraining from sexual relations until we have the spiritual (and today, frankly, legal) security of marriage, then complete faithfulness to our spouse. But people in and out of the Church have such a wife spectrum of dos, don'ts, and philosophies on the matter that impressing upon the hormone-driven minds of your children just what sex is and isn't is very difficult, I"m sure.

"Your feelings are natural and given by God, but you must not use them or you could become a slave to them. Or you may be just fine, but you could contract diseases or turn out just fine there, too. But it can negatively impact your vision of the opposite sex or your relationship with your spouse in ways that are subtle or that I otherwise can't describe to your own life specifically and that you'll sadly find out if you try it." probably isn't a convincing talk for a teenager.

[Arganoil]

I just told my son that if he doesn't get married before say 35 he should just go ahead and have safe sex, safe and lovingly, because dating outside church will end up like that. Same I will tell my daughters. Life is for the living. Beter repent afterwards than ask for permission before hand.
I make sure that in church they don't get any of the repressive lessons about modesty etc. Let them live and make their own choices. Pleasure is an important part of living. I teach them Christ loves them no matter what.
But I am from a very different corner of the world than most of you come from. Oh, and I am a TBM, as you call it.

[Davka]

So there's obviously this whole cliche about women faking headaches and such because they're tired and want to go to bed but hubby is feeling in the mood. I get it. I've been there. But I don't think it has as much to do with physical exhaustion as emotional exhaustion. This is why once babies and children come into the picture this gets worse..because she is not just worn out, she has literally been giving her heart away to other people all day long and is emotionally drained, which is why she can't (or doesn't think she can) give herself. There's nothing there left to give.

With that said, even if a woman isn't in the mood and doesn't feel like sex, it can be over in like 10 minutes. In my mind, 10 minutes is totally worth it if it shows my husband that I love and appreciate him. Most women would be miffed if they wanted their husband to talk to them for 10 minutes before bed, but he refused because he had had a hard day.

At times, I have looked at it similarly to rocking my children and giving them affection so they feel loved and safe. I'm not calling men children, but I think that female role of loving and nurturing extends to our husbands, and sex is part of that.

I see some sex as this kind...the "sure, I'll give you a hug" kind, but it can't always be like that. Other times you need the kind of sex that bonds you on a deeper level. The kind I talked about in my post above. I just don't want to give the impression that I think it must always be like that.

.

[kittycat51]

I thought this thread was going to be about things that go bump in the night that are unique to lds.

As for sexuality, it's difficult to teach kids to refrain refrain and abstain and not have some impact later when they're married. Parents are the answer here to teach correct principle. Sex is meant to be thoroughly employed and enjoyed without shame or fear within the bonds of holy matrimony.

So did I. And I was kind of disappointed to see what it turned out to be.

I know a funny story someone told me about she and her husband on their wedding night, though. For their wedding night, they went to a motel on a beach. After they both fell sound asleep, she awoke to use the bathroom, forgetting that she was married. Her husband then also awoke, and when he saw her standing by the bed in her long white nightgown and long black morticia adams hair, also forgot he was married, and let out a frightened yell. When she turned to see this strange yelling man in her bed she let out a scream. Then he yelled again. Then she screamed again. Then he yelled again. And she screamed. All this finally got them awake enough to recognize each other and remember they were married.

I call that and LDS Bedroom Nightmare. And I think it could be a bit symbolic of a lot of wedding nights!

Thanks! I laughed hard enough it brought tears to my eyes.

[Alaris]

I thought this thread was going to be about things that go bump in the night that are unique to lds.

As for sexuality, it's difficult to teach kids to refrain refrain and abstain and not have some impact later when they're married. Parents are the answer here to teach correct principle. Sex is meant to be thoroughly employed and enjoyed without shame or fear within the bonds of holy matrimony.

So did I. And I was kind of disappointed to see what it turned out to be.

I know a funny story someone told me about she and her husband on their wedding night, though. For their wedding night, they went to a motel on a beach. After they both fell sound asleep, she awoke to use the bathroom, forgetting that she was married. Her husband then also awoke, and when he saw her standing by the bed in her long white nightgown and long black morticia adams hair, also forgot he was married, and let out a frightened yell. When she turned to see this strange yelling man in her bed she let out a scream. Then he yelled again. Then she screamed again. Then he yelled again. And she screamed. All this finally got them awake enough to recognize each other and remember they were married.

I call that and LDS Bedroom Nightmare. And I think it could be a bit symbolic of a lot of wedding nights!

Thanks! I laughed hard enough it brought tears to my eyes.

This story is nowhere near as funny, but it's mine and relevant to the letter of the OP (if not the spirit.) My wife and I have a blended family, and soon after we were married, our younger kids gathered into our bedroom to hear me tell scary stories. I did a decent job if I do say so myself, as the kids were enthralled, but perhaps I did too good of a job. The kids all fell asleep on the floor around our bed, and my wife and I went to sleep. In the middle of the night, my wife as sleeping on her side facing away, and I slid my arm around her - my hand going down her arm if that makes sense. No ill intent - just a nice cuddle like I tend to do. She immediately flew up and started screaming uncontrollably! Then, embarrassed, she laughed for about 30 minutes. Apparently my scary stories got under the skin of my wife rather than the kids!

[kittycat51]

I thought this thread was going to be about things that go bump in the night that are unique to lds.

As for sexuality, it's difficult to teach kids to refrain refrain and abstain and not have some impact later when they're married. Parents are the answer here to teach correct principle. Sex is meant to be thoroughly employed and enjoyed without shame or fear within the bonds of holy matrimony.

So did I. And I was kind of disappointed to see what it turned out to be.

I know a funny story someone told me about she and her husband on their wedding night, though. For their wedding night, they went to a motel on a beach. After they both fell sound asleep, she awoke to use the bathroom, forgetting that she was married. Her husband then also awoke, and when he saw her standing by the bed in her long white nightgown and long black morticia adams hair, also forgot he was married, and let out a frightened yell. When she turned to see this strange yelling man in her bed she let out a scream. Then he yelled again. Then she screamed again. Then he yelled again. And she screamed. All this finally got them awake enough to recognize each other and remember they were married.

I call that and LDS Bedroom Nightmare. And I think it could be a bit symbolic of a lot of wedding nights!

Thanks! I laughed hard enough it brought tears to my eyes.

This story is nowhere near as funny, but it's mine and relevant to the letter of the OP (if not the spirit.) My wife and I have a blended family, and soon after we were married, our younger kids gathered into our bedroom to hear me tell scary stories. I did a decent job if I do say so myself, as the kids were enthralled, but perhaps I did too good of a job. The kids all fell asleep on the floor around our bed, and my wife and I went to sleep. In the middle of the night, my wife as sleeping on her side facing away, and I slid my arm around her - my hand going down her arm if that makes sense. No ill intent - just a nice cuddle like I tend to do. She immediately flew up and started screaming uncontrollably! Then, embarrassed, she laughed for about 30 minutes. Apparently my scary stories got under the skin of my wife rather than the kids!

Ok since we are on topic (as opposed to being off topic for this OP ) I have learned throughout the years to become very vocal in my dreams. Early on in our marriage it wasn't uncommon for me to wake up moaning from a bad dream. I have perfected the practice though. My poor husband goes to bed every night now wondering if I'm going to wake him up crying, screaming or even cursing because of a dream. Imagine my shock when one morning my husband asked me who ( fill in male person's name) was. I actually had to start laughing because it was the name of a neighbor boy growing up. I was so mad at him in my dream that I yelled out his name. (which woke my husband). A month ago I woke him up because I yelled "Damn it!"

I must have some underlying issue going on.

[Sarah]

But first we do need to teach our daughters (and sons) that it is OK to explore and get acquainted with their "equipment". Everything within healthy limits, but not off limit.

I don't agree with this idea. We need to teach our children that they can get aquainted with their celestial body parts with their marriage partner. Sexual intimacy is only appropriate, meaningful, and sanctified when shared between husband and wife. We should never intentionally self-stimulate ourselves. Yes, it is easier than relying on another to do it, but it turns the act into a selfish thing. Celestial law is about unselfishly sharing and exchanging different types of love gifts with others. Not self gratification.

[Alaris]

Another important aspect to teaching children is they need to see by the way their parents talk about sex and interact with each other - that intimacy is a good thing. All within reason of course.