Almost every prophet in this dispensation has emphasized the vital importance of defending, upholding and adhering to the Constitution of the United States. In again reading thru a compilation of their statements I decided to write down the following statements which, coming from three of the more recent prophets (since I became a member of the Church in February 1960), are as much commandments to me as if they were written in the Doctrine and Covenants. Are they to you?
President Ezra Taft Benson
"How then can we best befriend the Constitution in this critical hour and secure the blessings of liberty and ensure the protection and guidance of our Father in Heaven? First, we must be righteous....Second, we must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers....Third, we must become involved in civic affairs....Fourth, We must make our influence felt....We must become accurately informed and then let others know how we feel." (October 1987 General Conference)
"Will we be prepared? Will we be among those who will "bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction"? If we desire to be numbered among those who will, here are some things we must do: 1. We must be righteous and moral....2. We must learn the principles of the Constitution and then abide by its precepts....3. We must become involved in civic affairs....4. We must make our influence felt by our vote, our letters, and our advice. We must be wisely informed and let others know how we feel. We must take part in local precinct meetings and select delegates who will truly represent our feelings." (The Ensign, September 1987)
"We encourage Latter-day Saints throughout the nation to familiarize themselves with the Constitution. They should focus attention on it by reading and studying it. They should ponder the blessings that come through it. They should recommit themselves to its principles and be prepared to defend it and the freedom it provides....."We, as Latter-day Saints, must be vigilant in doing our part to preserve the Constitution and safeguard the way of life it makes possible." (First Presidency Statement, 15 January 1987)
President Harold B. Lee
"We urge members of the Church and all Americans to begin now to reflect more intently on the meaning and importance of the Constitution, and of adherence to its principles."
President David O. McKay
"[Above] all else, strive to support good and conscience candidates of either party who are aware of the great dangers inherent in communism, and who are truly dedicated to the Constitution in the tradition of our founding fathers." (October 1962 General Conference)
Next to being one in worshiping God, there in nothing in this world upon which this Church should be more united than in upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States!" (The Instructor, February 1956, 91:34)
Again, are these commandments to you. Why or why not ?
Are These Commandments
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JK4Woods
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2525
Re: Are These Commandments
Oh THANK YOU Lundbaek..!!
I am so glad you brought this up.
Seems to me most members of TCOJCOLDS don’t pay attention (at all) of how their rights are slipping away.
No protests, no demonstrations, not even hand ringing in the privacy of our own homes.
The rank and file will not step up, or put out any more effort than casting an (ill-informed) ballot on the occasional Election Day.
Even strong calls from the pulpit by various church leaders has not awoken the sleeping masses.
Barely any patriotic teaching or example is set local leaders to the sheep of the church.
Perhaps if money was involved... the members might actually do something if they got a deduction on their tithing, or maybe be paid $25 every time a crowd of distraught and morally outraged citizens up by the capital building whenever a sensitive bill was being debated.
The passion of the progressives is their greatest strength. And the sheeple of the church seem to expect the Twelve to fight their battles for them.
I am so glad you brought this up.
Seems to me most members of TCOJCOLDS don’t pay attention (at all) of how their rights are slipping away.
No protests, no demonstrations, not even hand ringing in the privacy of our own homes.
The rank and file will not step up, or put out any more effort than casting an (ill-informed) ballot on the occasional Election Day.
Even strong calls from the pulpit by various church leaders has not awoken the sleeping masses.
Barely any patriotic teaching or example is set local leaders to the sheep of the church.
Perhaps if money was involved... the members might actually do something if they got a deduction on their tithing, or maybe be paid $25 every time a crowd of distraught and morally outraged citizens up by the capital building whenever a sensitive bill was being debated.
The passion of the progressives is their greatest strength. And the sheeple of the church seem to expect the Twelve to fight their battles for them.
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lundbaek
- Level 34 Illuminated
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Re: Are These Commandments
For many years latter-day prophets and apostles tried to persuade Latter-day Saints to learn, uphold and abide by the principles of the US Constitution. Interesting that President McKay and President Benson, added the caveat "in the tradition of the Founding Fathers". For a long time I thought most members and local authorities, bishoprics, stake presidencies, EQ and RS presidents, etc. were dropping the ball. But I was really disappointed and saddened when the teachings of President Benson on the Constitution and freedom were largely omitted in our PH & RS lesson books. It gave to fear that the Lord no longer wants these subjects discussed in church meetings and in public settings like conferences. I discussed this with many Church members who are still active in the freedom battle, and finally concluded that it is now too late to reverse the course we are on leading to the loss of many more freedoms and the protection of our freedoms that the Constitution was intended to give us. It seems to me also that as JK4Woods stated, "most members of TCOJCOLDS don’t pay attention (at all) of how their rights are slipping away." It also caused me to do what I could to "pick up the slack". I believe those statements I quoted in the OP still stand. I believe that Church members who have admonitions in their patriarchal blessings to study and prepare to defend the Constitution (I am aware of 16) are still obligated to comply with those admonitions. And I am so appreciative of those LDSFF members and others who created "The Missing Chapter", which I wish all Church members would listen too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iDkOLv4X18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iDkOLv4X18
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David13
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7086
- Location: Utah
Re: Are These Commandments
It's a commandment to me, but that's me.
Some people are just into different things.
dc
Some people are just into different things.
dc
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JK4Woods
- captain of 1,000
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ajax
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: Pf, Texas
Re: Are These Commandments
"in the tradition of the Founding Fathers"
Which ones? Hamilton or Jefferson? Very different. Some people could be working in the tradition of the founders, say Hamilton, and be opposed to your views. The “founders” are a diverse lot and not a homogeneous sacrosanct blob.
Which ones? Hamilton or Jefferson? Very different. Some people could be working in the tradition of the founders, say Hamilton, and be opposed to your views. The “founders” are a diverse lot and not a homogeneous sacrosanct blob.
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Elizabeth
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 11796
- Location: East Coast Australia
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David13
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 7086
- Location: Utah
Re: Are These Commandments
As an Australian you might study and consider the principles of the Constitution and then determine if there are any commandments to you in the gospel as to looking to provide and promote those principles for all mankind.
dc
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lundbaek
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: Mesa, Arizona
Re: Are These Commandments
From my study of what latter-day prophets and apostles have said about the US Constitution I have concluded that "in the tradition of the Founding Fathers" means as "it was intended to be understood.
According to the Lord (Ref. D&C 101:77 and D&C 109:54) the Constitution "should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh", and "be established forever". According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would eventually apply to "all flesh" and "be established forever".
According to the Lord (Ref. D&C 101:77 and D&C 109:54) the Constitution "should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh", and "be established forever". According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would eventually apply to "all flesh" and "be established forever".
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ajax
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: Pf, Texas
Re: Are These Commandments
What are these principles? Do they include giving the central government the power to tax, regulate trade and raise an army? (All of which were not powers under the Articles)
Perhaps our arrogance in “good government” ought to be tempered.
It went awry from the very first sentence in the preamble as Patrick Henry noted. It was the product of a centralist / nationalist power grab.
Not to say there is not some good there, but true freedom must be written on the heart, not on parchment.
Most of our rights are already protected by our state governments.
“But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain — that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it.” -Lysander Spooner
But we like to make arguments from authority so I guess that trumps everything
Perhaps our arrogance in “good government” ought to be tempered.
It went awry from the very first sentence in the preamble as Patrick Henry noted. It was the product of a centralist / nationalist power grab.
Not to say there is not some good there, but true freedom must be written on the heart, not on parchment.
Most of our rights are already protected by our state governments.
“But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain — that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it.” -Lysander Spooner
But we like to make arguments from authority so I guess that trumps everything
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The Airbender
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Re: Are These Commandments
The constitution is great, but I believe God would be happier if we all understood the underlying principles upon which the constitution was written so that we could all write the constitution again, not by memorization, but by understanding the principles. Everyone needs to read The Law by Frederic Bastiat and then read it to their children and their dog and the birds that fly above their house.
The Law
"The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish!"
If this is true, it is a serious fact, and moral duty requires me to call the attention of my fellow-citizens to it.
Life Is a Gift from God
We hold from God the gift which includes all others. This gift is life — physical, intellectual, and moral life.
But life cannot maintain itself alone. The Creator of life has entrusted us with the responsibility of preserving, developing, and perfecting it. In order that we may accomplish this, He has provided us with a collection of marvelous faculties. And He has put us in the midst of a variety of natural resources. By the application of our faculties to these natural resources we convert them into products, and use them. This process is necessary in order that life may run its appointed course.
Life, faculties, production — in other words, individuality, liberty, property — this is man. And in spite of the cunning of artful political leaders, these three gifts from God precede all human legislation, and are superior to it. Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.
What Is Law?
What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense.
Each of us has a natural right — from God — to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an extension of our faculties? If every person has the right to defend even by force — his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly. Thus the principle of collective right — its reason for existing, its lawfulness — is based on individual right. And the common force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force — for the same reason — cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups.
Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights. Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the individual forces?
If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all.
The Law
"The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish!"
If this is true, it is a serious fact, and moral duty requires me to call the attention of my fellow-citizens to it.
Life Is a Gift from God
We hold from God the gift which includes all others. This gift is life — physical, intellectual, and moral life.
But life cannot maintain itself alone. The Creator of life has entrusted us with the responsibility of preserving, developing, and perfecting it. In order that we may accomplish this, He has provided us with a collection of marvelous faculties. And He has put us in the midst of a variety of natural resources. By the application of our faculties to these natural resources we convert them into products, and use them. This process is necessary in order that life may run its appointed course.
Life, faculties, production — in other words, individuality, liberty, property — this is man. And in spite of the cunning of artful political leaders, these three gifts from God precede all human legislation, and are superior to it. Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.
What Is Law?
What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense.
Each of us has a natural right — from God — to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an extension of our faculties? If every person has the right to defend even by force — his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly. Thus the principle of collective right — its reason for existing, its lawfulness — is based on individual right. And the common force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force — for the same reason — cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups.
Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights. Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the individual forces?
If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all.
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ParticleMan
- captain of 100
- Posts: 728
Re: Are These Commandments
May I momentarily reframe the question? Doing so might reveal one's attitude in general:lundbaek wrote: ↑March 8th, 2019, 8:46 pm Almost every prophet in this dispensation has emphasized the vital importance of defending, upholding and adhering to the Constitution of the United States. In again reading thru a compilation of their statements I decided to write down the following statements which, coming from three of the more recent prophets (since I became a member of the Church in February 1960), are as much commandments to me as if they were written in the Doctrine and Covenants. Are they to you?
"Are the statements of every president of the Church as much commandments as if they were written in the Doctrine and Covenants?"
What the Spirit communicates is scripture. But every thus inspired utterance need not be submitted for canonization to be commandments.
If we keep the commandments, we will prosper. Whether one views the prophets' statements as commandments or as counsel may be splitting hairs. We will be blessed for hearkening, and not blessed, perhaps even cursed, for not hearkening to their words.
We are to liken the prophets’ words, regardless of how they are published, to ourselves and our circumstances. The principles of the US Constitution are to be applied in all lands and among all people. Based on agency, liberty is a true principle, which righteous individuals and governments support, uphold, and defend.
It isn't difficult to discern results of not upholding liberty, including a proliferation of secret combinations that enslave and worse. Have we not been commanded to not let such get above us?
