The True Doctrine of th Family

[Fiannan]

Why the hostility?

[EmmaLee]

This is without question, one of the most disgusting, revolting things someone could do. I just marvel that we're even having this conversation on a supposed LDS forum. Any man who thinks of his wife as nothing more than a uterus to be used by him should be Ichabod Crane'd, post haste. God should just toss a big asteroid at us at this point.

Honestly I’m appalled that more people haven’t called this out .

Well, according to Michelle, that would be "unkind", Stahura. So the sickening perversions put forth in this forum (and in the Church) will just have to go uncontested, as we continue to swirl down the big toilet leading to hell.

EmmaLee, you are still putting words into my mouth.

To quote Elder Uchtdorf "Stop it.". . . please.

Passive aggressive much?

[Fiannan]

[Fiannan]

[Trucker]

If you remove procreation from sex you’ll reap sorrowful consequences.

Going by this, and your comments on the fertility thread, it is obvious that once your wife starts menopause, no more sex for you - none, zip, zero, zilch, nada - you will be refraining for the rest of your, hopefully, many decades long life.

Lol. Yep we'll see how that goes.

[cab]

Yes, the Father commanded Adam and Eve, and us by extension, to multiply and replenish. And there are all the strange things in the Old Testament..... But, if some of you are correct in saying that this is the very most important thing we should he doing on the Earth, shouldn't there be multiple mighty sermons on this topic in the scriptures? Is it just me or is there a very curious silence in scripture on this, especially to those living the "higher law"? Did Nephi teach it? Jacob? Alma? The other Nephi? Moroni? Paul? Jesus? Until section 132 (that wasn't scripture until 35 years after Joseph Smith's death) where are the teachings on building one's own kingdom through having many many children, or even the family in general?

So again, I would love someone to give some references to some mighty sermons on the family in the Book of Mormon (the most correct book on Earth, containing the fullness of the Gospel).

To me, Christ's simple doctrine of faith, repentance, baptism by water, and baptism by fire (that he warned we shouldn't add to or remove from) seems quite different than this concept. And there seem to be no shortage of sermons on that.

[Zathura]

Yes, the Father commanded Adam and Eve, and us by extension, to multiply and replenish. And there are all the strange things in the Old Testament..... But, if some of you are correct in saying that this is the very most important thing we should he doing on the Earth, shouldn't there be multiple mighty sermons on this topic in the scriptures? Is it just me or is there a very curious silence in scripture on this, especially to those living the "higher law"? Did Nephi teach it? Jacob? Alma? The other Nephi? Moroni? Paul? Jesus? Until section 132 (that wasn't scripture until 35 years after Joseph Smith's death) where are the teachings on building one's own kingdom through having many many children, or even the family in general?

So again, I would love someone to give some references to some mighty sermons on the family in the Book of Mormon (the most correct book on Earth, containing the fullness of the Gospel).

To me, Christ's simple doctrine of faith, repentance, baptism by water, and baptism by fire (that he warned we shouldn't add to or remove from) seems quite different than this concept. And there seem to be no shortage of sermons on that.

AMEN. My goodness.

Bring this topic up and most will refer to the only Old Testament passage that they remember(Multiply and Replenish), never is that discussed in the BoM. Talk about the Doctrine of Christ and they question if what you are saying is true even though it story after story after story in addition to various plain definitions of it. Amen amen amen.

My response to people that believe that you need to have as many children as possible or as soon as possible is just naaaaahhhhh thanks though. Agree to Disagree.

[Fiannan]

Yes, the Father commanded Adam and Eve, and us by extension, to multiply and replenish. And there are all the strange things in the Old Testament..... But, if some of you are correct in saying that this is the very most important thing we should he doing on the Earth, shouldn't there be multiple mighty sermons on this topic in the scriptures? Is it just me or is there a very curious silence in scripture on this, especially to those living the "higher law"? Did Nephi teach it? Jacob? Alma? The other Nephi? Moroni? Paul? Jesus? Until section 132 (that wasn't scripture until 35 years after Joseph Smith's death) where are the teachings on building one's own kingdom through having many many children, or even the family in general?

So again, I would love someone to give some references to some mighty sermons on the family in the Book of Mormon (the most correct book on Earth, containing the fullness of the Gospel).

To me, Christ's simple doctrine of faith, repentance, baptism by water, and baptism by fire (that he warned we shouldn't add to or remove from) seems quite different than this concept. And there seem to be no shortage of sermons on that.

I was reading an article about about incest in the Bible. There was no prohibition until the Mosaic Law. Yet even after that, with all the does and don'ts, there is no mention of if a father can marry his daughter. The article notes that it was just assumed that was not allowed. Not everything is specifically mentioned in scripture and, even if it is, one cannot weigh its importance merely by counting the words in the text.

Traditionally, Jewish or, even further, Hebrew, culture was very pro-natal. There was no more horrible condition than to be a woman unable to have children, thus passages speaking about being barren as a horrific curse. When one of David's wives was critical of his dancing and showing off his privates in public she was cursed with not having children.

So your call for "mighty sermons" means little as it was pretty much a given that the people saw children as a blessing and welcomed the births of additional children, even the people who were not blessed with a lot of resources. It is only when people reach a certain level of comfort and prosperity that they abandon this, as is noted in Romans 1, and once they abandon the natural functions of the body and reproduction then all manner of sexual sins are explored and magnified within such people.

[cab]

Yes, the Father commanded Adam and Eve, and us by extension, to multiply and replenish. And there are all the strange things in the Old Testament..... But, if some of you are correct in saying that this is the very most important thing we should he doing on the Earth, shouldn't there be multiple mighty sermons on this topic in the scriptures? Is it just me or is there a very curious silence in scripture on this, especially to those living the "higher law"? Did Nephi teach it? Jacob? Alma? The other Nephi? Moroni? Paul? Jesus? Until section 132 (that wasn't scripture until 35 years after Joseph Smith's death) where are the teachings on building one's own kingdom through having many many children, or even the family in general?

So again, I would love someone to give some references to some mighty sermons on the family in the Book of Mormon (the most correct book on Earth, containing the fullness of the Gospel).

To me, Christ's simple doctrine of faith, repentance, baptism by water, and baptism by fire (that he warned we shouldn't add to or remove from) seems quite different than this concept. And there seem to be no shortage of sermons on that.

I was reading an article about about incest in the Bible. There was no prohibition until the Mosaic Law. Yet even after that, with all the does and don'ts, there is no mention of if a father can marry his daughter. The article notes that it was just assumed that was not allowed. Not everything is specifically mentioned in scripture and, even if it is, one cannot weigh its importance merely by counting the words in the text.

Traditionally, Jewish or, even further, Hebrew, culture was very pro-natal. There was no more horrible condition than to be a woman unable to have children, thus passages speaking about being barren as a horrific curse. When one of David's wives was critical of his dancing and showing off his privates in public she was cursed with not having children.

So your call for "mighty sermons" means little as it was pretty much a given that the people saw children as a blessing and welcomed the births of additional children, even the people who were not blessed with a lot of resources. It is only when people reach a certain level of comfort and prosperity that they abandon this, as is noted in Romans 1, and once they abandon the natural functions of the body and reproduction then all manner of sexual sins are explored and magnified within such people.

I disagree that the paucity of actual scriptural sermons on this topic means little... Marriage and sealing of families is the crowning saving ordinance and has become a premier doctrine of our church!

What percentage of GC talks discuss it? How much did the polygamist Saints discuss it?
vs
How much does actual scripture discuss it?

This is neither inconsequential nor non-coincidental.

But I'll accept the bulk of your answer... There really are no mighty sermons on marriage and family, like find very commonplace today.... Well, except for Paul's discourse in 1 Corinthians 7... But if he were to give that talk in one of our sacrament meetings he'd be handed a nasty-note from the bishop...

[cab]

Just out of curiosity I just did a keyword search of both 2018 General Conferences on the terms "born again", "born of Christ", "born of God", "new creature", and "mighty change of heart"........ I received one single hit..... Do the same searches in the Book of Mormon and you get dozens of hits.

I then searched both 2018 General Conferences for the words "marriage" and "married"..... I received dozens of hits..... Do the same searches in the Book of Mormon and you find one single verse.

I also don't believe this to be inconsequential nor noncoincidental.

[Fiannan]

Just out of curiosity I just did a keyword search of both 2018 General Conferences on the terms "born again", "born of Christ", "born of God", "new creature", and "mighty change of heart"........ I received one single hit..... Do the same searches in the Book of Mormon and you get dozens of hits.

I then searched both 2018 General Conferences for the words "marriage" and "married"..... I received dozens of hits..... Do the same searches in the Book of Mormon and you find one single verse.

I also don't believe this to be inconsequential nor noncoincidental.

Tell you what, there is a General Conference coming up, why don't you stand outside the entrance and start screaming your concerns. Yeah, bring some repentance to the masses.

[Fiannan]

Yes, the Father commanded Adam and Eve, and us by extension, to multiply and replenish. And there are all the strange things in the Old Testament..... But, if some of you are correct in saying that this is the very most important thing we should he doing on the Earth, shouldn't there be multiple mighty sermons on this topic in the scriptures? Is it just me or is there a very curious silence in scripture on this, especially to those living the "higher law"? Did Nephi teach it? Jacob? Alma? The other Nephi? Moroni? Paul? Jesus? Until section 132 (that wasn't scripture until 35 years after Joseph Smith's death) where are the teachings on building one's own kingdom through having many many children, or even the family in general?

So again, I would love someone to give some references to some mighty sermons on the family in the Book of Mormon (the most correct book on Earth, containing the fullness of the Gospel).

To me, Christ's simple doctrine of faith, repentance, baptism by water, and baptism by fire (that he warned we shouldn't add to or remove from) seems quite different than this concept. And there seem to be no shortage of sermons on that.

I was reading an article about about incest in the Bible. There was no prohibition until the Mosaic Law. Yet even after that, with all the does and don'ts, there is no mention of if a father can marry his daughter. The article notes that it was just assumed that was not allowed. Not everything is specifically mentioned in scripture and, even if it is, one cannot weigh its importance merely by counting the words in the text.

Traditionally, Jewish or, even further, Hebrew, culture was very pro-natal. There was no more horrible condition than to be a woman unable to have children, thus passages speaking about being barren as a horrific curse. When one of David's wives was critical of his dancing and showing off his privates in public she was cursed with not having children.

So your call for "mighty sermons" means little as it was pretty much a given that the people saw children as a blessing and welcomed the births of additional children, even the people who were not blessed with a lot of resources. It is only when people reach a certain level of comfort and prosperity that they abandon this, as is noted in Romans 1, and once they abandon the natural functions of the body and reproduction then all manner of sexual sins are explored and magnified within such people.

I disagree that the paucity of actual scriptural sermons on this topic means little... Marriage and sealing of families is the crowning saving ordinance and has become a premier doctrine of our church!

What percentage of GC talks discuss it? How much did the polygamist Saints discuss it?
vs
How much does actual scripture discuss it?

This is neither inconsequential nor non-coincidental.

But I'll accept the bulk of your answer... There really are no mighty sermons on marriage and family, like find very commonplace today.... Well, except for Paul's discourse in 1 Corinthians 7... But if he were to give that talk in one of our sacrament meetings he'd be handed a nasty-note from the bishop...

I was going to debate you but 1 Corinthians 10 says:

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

And since you must affirm that the 1st Presidency and the Quorum of the 12 are the leaders of the Church then you must agree that you are out of line saying you have more insights into what they should be teaching.

[John Tavner]

Yes, the Father commanded Adam and Eve, and us by extension, to multiply and replenish. And there are all the strange things in the Old Testament..... But, if some of you are correct in saying that this is the very most important thing we should he doing on the Earth, shouldn't there be multiple mighty sermons on this topic in the scriptures? Is it just me or is there a very curious silence in scripture on this, especially to those living the "higher law"? Did Nephi teach it? Jacob? Alma? The other Nephi? Moroni? Paul? Jesus? Until section 132 (that wasn't scripture until 35 years after Joseph Smith's death) where are the teachings on building one's own kingdom through having many many children, or even the family in general?

So again, I would love someone to give some references to some mighty sermons on the family in the Book of Mormon (the most correct book on Earth, containing the fullness of the Gospel).

To me, Christ's simple doctrine of faith, repentance, baptism by water, and baptism by fire (that he warned we shouldn't add to or remove from) seems quite different than this concept. And there seem to be no shortage of sermons on that.

I was reading an article about about incest in the Bible. There was no prohibition until the Mosaic Law. Yet even after that, with all the does and don'ts, there is no mention of if a father can marry his daughter. The article notes that it was just assumed that was not allowed. Not everything is specifically mentioned in scripture and, even if it is, one cannot weigh its importance merely by counting the words in the text.

Traditionally, Jewish or, even further, Hebrew, culture was very pro-natal. There was no more horrible condition than to be a woman unable to have children, thus passages speaking about being barren as a horrific curse. When one of David's wives was critical of his dancing and showing off his privates in public she was cursed with not having children.

So your call for "mighty sermons" means little as it was pretty much a given that the people saw children as a blessing and welcomed the births of additional children, even the people who were not blessed with a lot of resources. It is only when people reach a certain level of comfort and prosperity that they abandon this, as is noted in Romans 1, and once they abandon the natural functions of the body and reproduction then all manner of sexual sins are explored and magnified within such people.

I disagree that the paucity of actual scriptural sermons on this topic means little... Marriage and sealing of families is the crowning saving ordinance and has become a premier doctrine of our church!

What percentage of GC talks discuss it? How much did the polygamist Saints discuss it?
vs
How much does actual scripture discuss it?

This is neither inconsequential nor non-coincidental.

But I'll accept the bulk of your answer... There really are no mighty sermons on marriage and family, like find very commonplace today.... Well, except for Paul's discourse in 1 Corinthians 7... But if he were to give that talk in one of our sacrament meetings he'd be handed a nasty-note from the bishop...

I was going to debate you but 1 Corinthians 10 says:

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

And since you must affirm that the 1st Presidency and the Quorum of the 12 are the leaders of the Church then you must agree that you are out of line saying you have more insights into what they should be teaching.

You're right - in fact Christ, our Lord Stated that there should be no more disputations among us for contention is not of Him - then he said what his doctrine was - Fatih, Repentance, Baptism (water & Holy Ghost) and becoming as a little child. Then He said Anyone who teaches more or less than this is not of me... interesting...- and those who follow this shall gain eternal life (2 Nephi 31&32- which also teaches the Doctrine and says the same thing - 2 witnesses and all). So Take that for what it is worth. Also interesting to note that he makes a distinction in his doctrine and teaches us something - first he mentions becoming as a little child and then being baptized - then he mentions being baptized and THEN becoming as a little child... something to think about - in case you wonder what becoming as a little child means then read 2 Nephi 31&32 and Moiah 3:19. I believe Christ and I'm sure we can all agree the Savior has more insight than anyone on earth.

[cab]

Yes, the Father commanded Adam and Eve, and us by extension, to multiply and replenish. And there are all the strange things in the Old Testament..... But, if some of you are correct in saying that this is the very most important thing we should he doing on the Earth, shouldn't there be multiple mighty sermons on this topic in the scriptures? Is it just me or is there a very curious silence in scripture on this, especially to those living the "higher law"? Did Nephi teach it? Jacob? Alma? The other Nephi? Moroni? Paul? Jesus? Until section 132 (that wasn't scripture until 35 years after Joseph Smith's death) where are the teachings on building one's own kingdom through having many many children, or even the family in general?

So again, I would love someone to give some references to some mighty sermons on the family in the Book of Mormon (the most correct book on Earth, containing the fullness of the Gospel).

To me, Christ's simple doctrine of faith, repentance, baptism by water, and baptism by fire (that he warned we shouldn't add to or remove from) seems quite different than this concept. And there seem to be no shortage of sermons on that.

I was reading an article about about incest in the Bible. There was no prohibition until the Mosaic Law. Yet even after that, with all the does and don'ts, there is no mention of if a father can marry his daughter. The article notes that it was just assumed that was not allowed. Not everything is specifically mentioned in scripture and, even if it is, one cannot weigh its importance merely by counting the words in the text.

Traditionally, Jewish or, even further, Hebrew, culture was very pro-natal. There was no more horrible condition than to be a woman unable to have children, thus passages speaking about being barren as a horrific curse. When one of David's wives was critical of his dancing and showing off his privates in public she was cursed with not having children.

So your call for "mighty sermons" means little as it was pretty much a given that the people saw children as a blessing and welcomed the births of additional children, even the people who were not blessed with a lot of resources. It is only when people reach a certain level of comfort and prosperity that they abandon this, as is noted in Romans 1, and once they abandon the natural functions of the body and reproduction then all manner of sexual sins are explored and magnified within such people.

I disagree that the paucity of actual scriptural sermons on this topic means little... Marriage and sealing of families is the crowning saving ordinance and has become a premier doctrine of our church!

What percentage of GC talks discuss it? How much did the polygamist Saints discuss it?
vs
How much does actual scripture discuss it?

This is neither inconsequential nor non-coincidental.

But I'll accept the bulk of your answer... There really are no mighty sermons on marriage and family, like find very commonplace today.... Well, except for Paul's discourse in 1 Corinthians 7... But if he were to give that talk in one of our sacrament meetings he'd be handed a nasty-note from the bishop...

I was going to debate you but 1 Corinthians 10 says:

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

And since you must affirm that the 1st Presidency and the Quorum of the 12 are the leaders of the Church then you must agree that you are out of line saying you have more insights into what they should be teaching.

You're funny. Just call me an apostate and I guess you win, ok.