Birth Control Poll

[ElizaRSkousen]

The most important thing that matters here I guess is that you are confident enough in your opinion that when God asks you to explain it to him you aren’t ashamed.

[simpleton]

I would argue that the point of us is to become God's children. The entire point of us having children is to try to bring them up to become God's children. The scriptures describe us becoming God's children (in the actual sense of becoming his heirs) when we are spiritually begotten of him and born again in Christ. This should be the focus of all we do. If we have not yet been spiritually begotten of God, it doesn't matter how many kids we have.

Sure.

But being spiritually begotten of god includes keeping his commandments, and also of having the mighty change of heart, being full of charity longsuffering meekness etc.

If you are purposefully limiting your family then you are lacking in those things in the area that we claim is most important, ‘the family’.

Look, you can believe whatever you want. Personally, I am not willing to look into Gods face someday and tell him “I chose to provide a life for only 3 of your children even though you had more to send, and I was capable of having them.”

I don't see the link between might change of heart, charity long suffering meekness and then OH HAVE MANY BABIES. Like...??

Okay, if someone is actively limiting their family and using birth control and they have this mighty change of heart during this period of time and are Born of God, how can you tell them they lack those things though? You might think they do, but clearly God doesn't agree, otherwise they'd still be waiting for such an experience.

The only link I guess I can see here is that once you "enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do (2 Nephi 32:5)". That is the
ultimate goal, to take all our commands from Christ and his Spirit.

So if simpleton or benishtart go through this process, and then are told to have many babies, many wives, or that a vasectomy is worse than death, then they have been so commanded. Period. However, that commandment would be for them alone, not everyone in LDSFFland.... And if an angel happened to give them this commandment, they might want to attempt to shake his hand, just in case (especially if that angel is wielding a flaming sword)

Benjamin F Johnson contemporary to Joseph Smith in his letter to George F Gibbs, church historian:


I saw but little of
them until after the Prophet, in early spring of 1843, had come to Ramus to teach me plural
marriage, and to ask my other sisters to be his wives, an account of which I have heretofore given
by sworn statement but will here repeat as it occurred.

It was Sunday morning, April 3rd or 4th, 1843, that the Prophet was at my home in Ramus, and
after breakfast he proposed a stroll together, and taking his arm, our walk led toward a swail,
surrounded by trees and tall brush and near the forest line not far from my house. Through the
swail ran a small spring brook, across which a tree was fallen and was clean of its bark. On this
we sat down and the Prophet proceeded at once to open to me the subject of plural and eternal
marriage and he said that years ago in Kirtland the Lord had revealed to him the ancient order of
plural marriage, and the necessity for its practice, and did command him then to take another
wife, and that among his first thoughts was to come to my mother for some of her daughters. And
as he was again required of the Lord to take more wives, he had come now to ask me for my
sister Almira.

My words astonished me and almost took my breath. I sat for a time amazed and finally, almost
ready to burst with emotion, I looked him straight in the face and said: "Brother Joseph, this is
something I did not expect, and I do not understand it. You know whether it is right, I do not. I
want to do just as you tell me, and I will try, but if I ever should know that you do this to
dishonor and debauch my sister, I will kill you as sure as the Lord lives." And while his eyes did
not move from mine, he said with a smile, in a soft tone: "But Benjamin you will never know
that, but you will know the principle in time, and will greatly rejoice in what it will bring to you."
"But how," I asked, "Can I teach my sister what I myself do not understand, or show her what I
do not myself see?" "But you will see and understand it," he said, "And when you open your
mouth to talk to your sister, light will come to you and your mouth will be full and your tongue
loose, and I will today preach a sermon to you that none but you will understand." Both of these
promises were more than fulfilled. The text of his sermon was our use of the "one, five and ten
talents," and as God had now commanded plural marriage, and was exaltation and dominion of
the saints depended upon the number of their righteous posterity, from him who was then but
with one talent, it would be taken and given him that had ten, which item of doctrine seems now
to be somewhat differently constructed.

But my thought and wish is to write of things just as they occurred, and I now bear an earnest
testimony that his other prediction was more than fulfilled, for when with great hesitation and
stammering I called my sister to a private audience, and stood before her shaking with fear, just
so soon as I found power to open my mouth, it was filled, for the light of the Lord shone upon my
understanding, and the subject that had seemed so dark now appeared of all subjects pertaining to
our gospel the most lucid and plain; and so both my sister and myself were converted together,
and never again did I need evidence or argument to sustain that high and holy principle. And
within a few days of this period my sister accompanied me to Nauvoo, where at our sister
Delcena's, we soon met the Prophet with his brother Hyrum and Wm. Clayton, as his private
secretary, who always accompanied him. Brother Hyrum at once took me in hand, apparently in
fear I was not fully converted, and this was the manner of his talk to me: "Now Benjamin, you
must not be afraid of this new doctrine, for it is all right. You know Brother Hyrum don't get
carried away by worldly things, and he fought this principle until the Lord showed him it was
true. I know that Joseph was commanded to take more wives, and he waited until an angel with a
drawn sword stood before him and declared that if he longer delayed fulfilling that command he
would slay him." This was the manner of Brother Hyrum's teaching to me, which I then did not
need, as I was fully converted.

Meanwhile, the Prophet, with Louisa Beeman and my sister Delcena, had it agreeable arranged
with Sister Almera, and after a little instruction she stood by the Prophet's side and was sealed to
him as a wife, by Brother Clayton; after which the Prophet asked me to take my sister to occupy
number "10" in his Mansion home during her stay in the city. But as I could not long be absent
from my home and business, we soon returned to Ramus, where on the 15th of May, some three
weeks later, the Prophet again came and at my house occupied the same room and bed with my
sister, that the month previous he had occupied with the daughter of the late Bishop Partridge, as
his wife.....

[Fiannan]

Any amount of children is still multiplying and replenishing the earth.

A women doesn't need to be a brood mare and pop out a baby every year.

Again, why the metaphor of women having large families and animals? That is really demeaning to women wishing to have large families.

Second, statistically speaking, when you factor in such things as infertility, mortality, someone not finding a mate, someone wishing not to have kids, homosexuality, etc. if a hypothetical family line set a limit of two kids per woman per generation a family line would perish withing 3 - 4 generations. That's right, no branches to the roots. Extinct.

[LadyT]

Any amount of children is still multiplying and replenishing the earth.

A women doesn't need to be a brood mare and pop out a baby every year.

Again, why the metaphor of women having large families and animals? That is really demeaning to women wishing to have large families.

Second, statistically speaking, when you factor in such things as infertility, mortality, someone not finding a mate, someone wishing not to have kids, homosexuality, etc. if a hypothetical family line set a limit of two kids per woman per generation a family line would perish withing 3 - 4 generations. That's right, no branches to the roots. Extinct.

Brood mares are spoiled, pampered horses. Their only job is to have baby after baby until they can't. Honestly, from how many people talk on here, it sounds like what they think women should do. Have baby after baby until they can't.

Horses are the most amazing animals. I love horses. People don't mind when you call a man a stud, and yet brood mare is offensive.

[cab]

Sure.

But being spiritually begotten of god includes keeping his commandments, and also of having the mighty change of heart, being full of charity longsuffering meekness etc.

If you are purposefully limiting your family then you are lacking in those things in the area that we claim is most important, ‘the family’.

Look, you can believe whatever you want. Personally, I am not willing to look into Gods face someday and tell him “I chose to provide a life for only 3 of your children even though you had more to send, and I was capable of having them.”

I don't see the link between might change of heart, charity long suffering meekness and then OH HAVE MANY BABIES. Like...??

Okay, if someone is actively limiting their family and using birth control and they have this mighty change of heart during this period of time and are Born of God, how can you tell them they lack those things though? You might think they do, but clearly God doesn't agree, otherwise they'd still be waiting for such an experience.

The only link I guess I can see here is that once you "enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do (2 Nephi 32:5)". That is the
ultimate goal, to take all our commands from Christ and his Spirit.

So if simpleton or benishtart go through this process, and then are told to have many babies, many wives, or that a vasectomy is worse than death, then they have been so commanded. Period. However, that commandment would be for them alone, not everyone in LDSFFland.... And if an angel happened to give them this commandment, they might want to attempt to shake his hand, just in case (especially if that angel is wielding a flaming sword)

Benjamin F Johnson contemporary to Joseph Smith in his letter to George F Gibbs, church historian:


I saw but little of
them until after the Prophet, in early spring of 1843, had come to Ramus to teach me plural
marriage, and to ask my other sisters to be his wives, an account of which I have heretofore given
by sworn statement but will here repeat as it occurred.

It was Sunday morning, April 3rd or 4th, 1843, that the Prophet was at my home in Ramus, and
after breakfast he proposed a stroll together, and taking his arm, our walk led toward a swail,
surrounded by trees and tall brush and near the forest line not far from my house. Through the
swail ran a small spring brook, across which a tree was fallen and was clean of its bark. On this
we sat down and the Prophet proceeded at once to open to me the subject of plural and eternal
marriage and he said that years ago in Kirtland the Lord had revealed to him the ancient order of
plural marriage, and the necessity for its practice, and did command him then to take another
wife, and that among his first thoughts was to come to my mother for some of her daughters. And
as he was again required of the Lord to take more wives, he had come now to ask me for my
sister Almira.

My words astonished me and almost took my breath. I sat for a time amazed and finally, almost
ready to burst with emotion, I looked him straight in the face and said: "Brother Joseph, this is
something I did not expect, and I do not understand it. You know whether it is right, I do not. I
want to do just as you tell me, and I will try, but if I ever should know that you do this to
dishonor and debauch my sister, I will kill you as sure as the Lord lives." And while his eyes did
not move from mine, he said with a smile, in a soft tone: "But Benjamin you will never know
that, but you will know the principle in time, and will greatly rejoice in what it will bring to you."
"But how," I asked, "Can I teach my sister what I myself do not understand, or show her what I
do not myself see?" "But you will see and understand it," he said, "And when you open your
mouth to talk to your sister, light will come to you and your mouth will be full and your tongue
loose, and I will today preach a sermon to you that none but you will understand." Both of these
promises were more than fulfilled. The text of his sermon was our use of the "one, five and ten
talents," and as God had now commanded plural marriage, and was exaltation and dominion of
the saints depended upon the number of their righteous posterity, from him who was then but
with one talent, it would be taken and given him that had ten, which item of doctrine seems now
to be somewhat differently constructed.

But my thought and wish is to write of things just as they occurred, and I now bear an earnest
testimony that his other prediction was more than fulfilled, for when with great hesitation and
stammering I called my sister to a private audience, and stood before her shaking with fear, just
so soon as I found power to open my mouth, it was filled, for the light of the Lord shone upon my
understanding, and the subject that had seemed so dark now appeared of all subjects pertaining to
our gospel the most lucid and plain; and so both my sister and myself were converted together,
and never again did I need evidence or argument to sustain that high and holy principle. And
within a few days of this period my sister accompanied me to Nauvoo, where at our sister
Delcena's, we soon met the Prophet with his brother Hyrum and Wm. Clayton, as his private
secretary, who always accompanied him. Brother Hyrum at once took me in hand, apparently in
fear I was not fully converted, and this was the manner of his talk to me: "Now Benjamin, you
must not be afraid of this new doctrine, for it is all right. You know Brother Hyrum don't get
carried away by worldly things, and he fought this principle until the Lord showed him it was
true. I know that Joseph was commanded to take more wives, and he waited until an angel with a
drawn sword stood before him and declared that if he longer delayed fulfilling that command he
would slay him." This was the manner of Brother Hyrum's teaching to me, which I then did not
need, as I was fully converted.

Meanwhile, the Prophet, with Louisa Beeman and my sister Delcena, had it agreeable arranged
with Sister Almera, and after a little instruction she stood by the Prophet's side and was sealed to
him as a wife, by Brother Clayton; after which the Prophet asked me to take my sister to occupy
number "10" in his Mansion home during her stay in the city. But as I could not long be absent
from my home and business, we soon returned to Ramus, where on the 15th of May, some three
weeks later, the Prophet again came and at my house occupied the same room and bed with my
sister, that the month previous he had occupied with the daughter of the late Bishop Partridge, as
his wife.....

Yes, I believe that letter was written in 1903. A recounting of a private conversation that took place 60 years prior discussing a death threat by an angel for not marrying multiple women that no sources contemporary to the life of Joseph ever documented... Not fishy at all...

[Fiannan]

Remember, the elite who control the USA and Europe want you dead...not you literally, but once you are old and die they want that you never made replacements. You middle class people question too much, won't comply, and use up space that the wealthy could better enjoy.

Now take your birth control, teach what kids you have that career and materialism are worthy goals, and maybe even convince them that they were born the wrong gender so they can start transitioning immediately. Get with the plan.

[simpleton]

Remember, the elite who control the USA and Europe want you dead...not you literally, but once you are old and die they want that you never made replacements. You middle class people question too much, won't comply, and use up space that the wealthy could better enjoy.

Now take your birth control, teach what kids you have that career and materialism are worthy goals, and maybe even convince them that they were born the wrong gender so they can start transitioning immediately. Get with the plan.

That is where we are at in Mormondom. But there are a few rebels, that need to be roped in and tamed.

[Fiannan]

Remember, the elite who control the USA and Europe want you dead...not you literally, but once you are old and die they want that you never made replacements. You middle class people question too much, won't comply, and use up space that the wealthy could better enjoy.

Now take your birth control, teach what kids you have that career and materialism are worthy goals, and maybe even convince them that they were born the wrong gender so they can start transitioning immediately. Get with the plan.

That is where we are at in Mormondom. But there are a few rebels, that need to be roped in and tamed.

Sadly, in many Mormon circles a person would be held more in contempt for saying that they want all their kids to marry and have large families than if they were to say they support these "women's marches" or that America needs to adopt socialism.

Of course these "Mormons" want to compromise with the world. They don't realize that those who run the world have no intention to compromise.