Dead people having kids

[Davka]

No sex is involved in artificial insemination. That is why a worthy LDS man or woman can donate sperm or eggs and there is no penalty.

You can't donate sperm unless you spank the monkey, and the church leaders have been quite specific on that subject. How many times has Elder Ballard taught men to not beat the bishop?

According to the Holy Handbook a couple in which the man is sterile, who use donated sperm and create a child, are automatically sealed to that child once born.

Do you know of any LDS fertility doctors who do not treat female patients with donated sperm if their husbands are sterile?

Individual women or individual men should not be encouraged to adopt children on their own, in my point of view: children need both a father and a mother figure, ideally. Single people still have plenty of opportunities to mentor and get involved in a good way in lives of children in their extended families, at church and other outreach programs.

That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I would never say that a woman who is in her late 30s, is financially secure, and of high intelligence and health should feel bad at all for going to a sperm bank. And my understanding is that it is becoming more common for LDS women to do so.

You should be careful about saying that conclusions of peer reviewed research are just someone's opinion. It is very clear from the research that children raised by single mothers tend to have far worse outcomes than children raised in two parent heterosexual households. And the church is quite explicit about single women going to sperm banks. The last time I looked at Handbook 1 I recall: "Artificial insemination of single sisters is not approved. Single sisters who deliberately refuse to follow the counsel of Church leaders in this matter are subject to Church discipline."

You are entitled to an opinion that there's nothing wrong with taking actions that will lead to church discipline, but if it leads to church discipline then I'm pretty confident that action is very wrong.

So what about my brother and sister in law who conceived twins through IUI...She was partially drugged and kinds out of it, so he was sent to the "extraction room" (true story) to do his thing, and bada bing bada boom...babies.

Ideal? No. But I don't think any church leader would condemn the way he got the sperm out of his body, considering the result.

So I don't think your first point has much merit.

With that said, I agree with you (and the church's official stance) that a single woman should not revert to a sperm bank just to fulfill her maternal desires. Parenting is about the kid, not the parent, and a kid should have a mom and a dad. To create a life without those circumstances is denying the child those rights from the get-go to fulfill one's own selfish desires.

[Fiannan]

With that said, I agree with you (and the church's official stance) that a single woman should not revert to a sperm bank just to fulfill her maternal desires. Parenting is about the kid, not the parent, and a kid should have a mom and a dad. To create a life without those circumstances is denying the child those rights from the get-go to fulfill one's own selfish desires.

Yet at the same time one could say it is an incredibly selfless act on the part of the woman. If she is a righteous person, with the desire to raise her child or children in righteousness, then might it be better for her to bring forth children than those spirits having to go through family lines that are unrighteous?

[mtm411]

With that said, I agree with you (and the church's official stance) that a single woman should not revert to a sperm bank just to fulfill her maternal desires. Parenting is about the kid, not the parent, and a kid should have a mom and a dad. To create a life without those circumstances is denying the child those rights from the get-go to fulfill one's own selfish desires.

Yet at the same time one could say it is an incredibly selfless act on the part of the woman. If she is a righteous person, with the desire to raise her child or children in righteousness, then might it be better for her to bring forth children than those spirits having to go through family lines that are unrighteous?

Why even get married? A woman could pump out spirit babies like crazy if we didn't have to get a man to agree. It seems the church could get the most babies for its' buck by creating warehouses with willing women and artificially inseminating them. Then raising them institutionally, with their mom waving at them occasionally. That would be super unselfish and create a ton of kids.

God doesn't need numbers. He gave Abraham and Sarah a single son and a nation was born.

[Fiannan]

Why even get married? A woman could pump out spirit babies like crazy if we didn't have to get a man to agree. It seems the church could get the most babies for its' buck by creating warehouses with willing women and artificially inseminating them. Then raising them institutionally, with their mom waving at them occasionally. That would be super unselfish and create a ton of kids.

God doesn't need numbers. He gave Abraham and Sarah a single son and a nation was born.

By chance have you read Plato's Republic?

So anyway, a person is obese, so the logical solution is to starve themselves to 0% body fat? A person is thirsty, so hook them up to a garden hose and turn it on full blast?

How can one say that it is a bad thing for women desiring to have children not to have the opportunity to do so and then jump to some sort of factory system of reproduction? Makes no sense.

[mtm411]

When it comes to reproducing, the right of a child to be raised by a father and mother devoted to each other and their child is paramount. Sperm donors, polygamy, all the evil things that take a father from the mother and child are against God's plan. Heavenly Father wants strong families raising children. Our society takes the feelings of adults way too seriously when weighed against what is best for children.

I am sorry for my brothers and sisters who are unable to marry and/or have babies, but that has always been true. Someday they will have that opportunity. Their sad feelings don't trump the rights of a child to a father and mother.

My illustration was that if it was about numbers, there are far better ways to reproduce infants than marriage. God has a plan for us, and that includes strong families.

Why even get married? A woman could pump out spirit babies like crazy if we didn't have to get a man to agree. It seems the church could get the most babies for its' buck by creating warehouses with willing women and artificially inseminating them. Then raising them institutionally, with their mom waving at them occasionally. That would be super unselfish and create a ton of kids.

God doesn't need numbers. He gave Abraham and Sarah a single son and a nation was born.

By chance have you read Plato's Republic?

So anyway, a person is obese, so the logical solution is to starve themselves to 0% body fat? A person is thirsty, so hook them up to a garden hose and turn it on full blast?

How can one say that it is a bad thing for women desiring to have children not to have the opportunity to do so and then jump to some sort of factory system of reproduction? Makes no sense.

[Fiannan]

When it comes to reproducing, the right of a child to be raised by a father and mother devoted to each other and their child is paramount. Sperm donors, polygamy, all the evil things that take a father from the mother and child are against God's plan. Heavenly Father wants strong families raising children. Our society takes the feelings of adults way too seriously when weighed against what is best for children.

What about sperm donation to help couples where the father is infertile? And in a related question, how did Jesus get conceived?

[mtm411]

When it comes to reproducing, the right of a child to be raised by a father and mother devoted to each other and their child is paramount. Sperm donors, polygamy, all the evil things that take a father from the mother and child are against God's plan. Heavenly Father wants strong families raising children. Our society takes the feelings of adults way too seriously when weighed against what is best for children.

What about sperm donation to help couples where the father is infertile? And in a related question, how did Jesus get conceived?

I think we can all agree that Jesus is a special case. My guess is that there is a lot we don't know about celestial reproduction. Notice Heavenly Father made sure that Jesus had a worthy, capable earthly father to guide his son. Joseph protected Mary, provided for her, and was an all around great man.

I think sperm donation for an infertile couple is fine. Just like adoption. The child is being brought up with two parents who care about them, then it's great.