Why "Every Member is a Missionary" will never work!

[Dusty52]

It has never caught on and never will
I keep my religious beliefs to myself, they are essentially a very personal matter, why would I invite 2 strangers into my home who I've only known for a very short time and let them loose on friends I've known for 20 years plus? It's a no brainer!!, you'll get the odd one which will work but the basic premise will never work!
Why is the church so obsessed with trying to convert the whole world and everyone who has ever lived in it? there are other more important matters to consider and deal with!

[oneClimbs]

We have had a responsibility to preach the gospel since the beginning. Now this doesn’t necessarily mean we go around beating people over the heads. Jesus said to let your light shine and not hide it.

Personally, I take this to mean for me to try and lift everyone around me in whatever way will bless them. Some people are not ready to join the saints, there is too much to overcome for them at the monent. Others are suprisingly willing, they are looking for something and until the idea is offered they may not think of it.

When the idea enters the mind, the Spirit can begin the work. At that point, the missionaries can be involved and I think that the missionaries have a legitimate place. Perhaps in the future there will be ward missionaries doing the teaching primarily and proselytizing missionaries focused on the people they find themselves.

[cyclOps]

There are other more important things than helping to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man?

[endlessQuestions]

there are other more important matters to consider and deal with!

What, precisely?

[Dusty52]

Feeding the starving and the poor of the world, elevating poverty for one!!

[harakim]

Feeding the starving and the poor of the world, elevating poverty for one!!

27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”


I agree with you that it's weird the church pushes everyone to reach out to people. I don't know if this is something that comes from the top or from local leadership, but yeah, I think it's wrong. Having people commit to share the gospel with one person (usually "this week") is like telling someone to shovel someone's driveway this week. What if it's summer? There is a time for everything.

I think that it could be the church is asking people to not be afraid to share their testimony. Like, they think people are afraid to do it. Maybe they are, I don't know. However, what gets down to the lay people like yourself is the message that you have to do it regardless of circumstance.

I see this as very similar to the old lesson manual approach. Here is the lesson you will teach this week (Church common core), do not deviate and do not be guided by the spirit beyond the bounds of said manual.

The church is changing that approach and I think, if it's the true church, which it could be, we will see more changes in this direction. There will be more facilitating and less preaching.

[oneClimbs]

Feeding the starving and the poor of the world, elevating poverty for one!!

27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”


I agree with you that it's weird the church pushes everyone to reach out to people. I don't know if this is something that comes from the top or from local leadership, but yeah, I think it's wrong. Having people commit to share the gospel with one person (usually "this week") is like telling someone to shovel someone's driveway this week. What if it's summer? There is a time for everything.

I think that it could be the church is asking people to not be afraid to share their testimony. Like, they think people are afraid to do it. Maybe they are, I don't know. However, what gets down to the lay people like yourself is the message that you have to do it regardless of circumstance.

I see this as very similar to the old lesson manual approach. Here is the lesson you will teach this week (Church common core), do not deviate and do not be guided by the spirit beyond the bounds of said manual.

The church is changing that approach and I think, if it's the true church, which it could be, we will see more changes in this direction. There will be more facilitating and less preaching.

I'm not sure how it is weird it is to encourage people to share the gospel. I don't think the expectation is to deliver a sermon to everyone we see but I agree that setting uber specific goals like in your example for everyone across the board isn't realistic. But is that specifically what we have been asked to do? That's the official instruction from the first presidency to commit to share the gospel with one person per week? Or is that just something some ward wanted to do? Is this some new initiative I'm not aware of?

Also, was it a thing that we teach straight from the manual and never deviate? In nearly 40 years, I've never been in a class where we read straight from the manual or where the discussion didn't deviate from what was in the manual. Personally, I don't think I have ever taught straight from the manual, I was always told it was...simply a manual, a guide.

I agree that we are moving in a good direction though. While the new "Come Follow Me" program is still a correlated approach that I wasn't too excited about at first (it's even more correlated across all ages and even family and personal study) I gave it a chance and already I have seen some wisdom in this approach. I think it would be a different story if the WAY we taught was the older way, but now that the classrooms are free to take the lesson into any territory the discussion may lean, I think we are seeing something new and, dare I say, inspired.

I think there was some wisdom in starting us out in the New Testament as well. Almost immediately we are confronted with the Pharisees who are so concerned with deviation from tradition that they are unwilling to see God actively working in their lives when it is right under their nose.

[oneClimbs]

Feeding the starving and the poor of the world, elevating poverty for one!!

This argument always comes up like it is something easy to fix. It's not.

The poor will always be with us. Plus, money doesn't solve poverty. People are not poor because they don't have money, they are poor for a wide range of extremely difficult circumstances to solve. Simply giving people money doesn't solve the problem, even so, we help where possible and do a lot to support other churches who are part of the effort. For instance, there was a Christian church in Las Vegas that multiple stakes supported with volunteers who supplied the cooks, youth for passing out food, and the food itself. The other church provided the location and venue and invited people to come and eat and get basic supplies.

I went with our ward several times over the years when it was our turn. I talked to many people including a man who left his job and sold off everything to live on the street free from taxes and government intervention in his life. He is homeless by choice. Another man lives on the street and has a free bus ticket waiting to take him one state over to his sister's house. She is begging him to come live with her and get back on his feet; he refuses. Everyone has a story, these are not easy problems to solve. Others are victims of their governments and we could send food, but they steal it to keep the people weak and under their control.

We could take all of the churches money and buy maybe a fraction of the poor in the world a meal (only those we could actually reach if their governments allowed) and they would be hungry again tomorrow. The church isn't as powerful in that regard as we might think. The logistics of creating, preparing, and delivering such food globally would be expensive beyond imagination.

What I would like to see is a realistic plan to "Feeding the starving and the poor of the world, elevating poverty" and an estimate of how much that would cost and compare it with the discretionary funds of the church that exist after paying for everything it takes to run the organization including the taxes, electricity, water, etc for the thousands of chapels that the members attend and enjoy multiple times per week for free.

I would also like to see a case study where someone, instead of complaining, made a proof of concept in their own neighborhood where they raise money to feed the starving and elevate poverty and show a working model that is scalable.

I've shared this before, but in a neighborhood in Idaho there was one particular block that was run down and filled with low-income people. They were what you would probably call "white trash" and they all had issues and many were nice people but like I said: "issues".

The neighbors which consisted mostly of LDS people tried to do something. With their own money, they went in and replated grass, trees, flowers, gardens, painted homes, fixed up properties and did all kinds of service so that these people would be raised to the level of the rest of the homes in the area. The end result was a neighborhood that fit in, and the people were grateful. In 2 years it was right back to the trash heap it was before.

Cleansing the outer vessel did nothing. Again, the problems are much bigger. The good neighbors thought they could fix them with money and some elbow grease but they severely underestimated the CAUSE of why that neighborhood was so run down. Money was pumped into that neighborhood and we preached the gospel like crazy there but little made a difference.

Now imagine the problem on a global scale. Money is not as magical as we think it is.

[Serragon]

Feeding the starving and the poor of the world, elevating poverty for one!!

The purpose of the Church is to convert souls to Christ. It is your responsibility to feed the poor, not the responsibility of the Church.

In order to eliminate poverty, you would need to force people to make choices they would not otherwise make. Is this what you are advocating the Church do?

[Serragon]

Why is the church so obsessed with trying to convert the whole world and everyone who has ever lived in it? there are other more important matters to consider and deal with!

I have a hard time understanding how any believing Christian could ask such a question?

I have given you the benefit of the doubt as being an honest and sincere seeker. But I have a hard time believing this question to be sincere, especially using an adjective like "obsessed" that has such negative connotations.

[Robin Hood]

It has never caught on and never will
I keep my religious beliefs to myself, they are essentially a very personal matter, why would I invite 2 strangers into my home who I've only known for a very short time and let them loose on friends I've known for 20 years plus? It's a no brainer!!, you'll get the odd one which will work but the basic premise will never work!
Why is the church so obsessed with trying to convert the whole world and everyone who has ever lived in it? there are other more important matters to consider and deal with!

On this Dusty, we can agree.
I call it the Amway gospel. And like all MLM programmes, it won't work for most people.
It is also contrary to the British way. We don't talk about politics or religion in friendly circles, it's a big cultural no-no.

In my area we have one chapel used by one ward.
The JW's have 5 congregations and 3 buildings in the same area. Why? Because they knock doors. We gave up on that years ago and our growth has slowed consistently ever since. Now the church is hoping social media will do the trick, but I doubt it will.
When it comes to effective missionary work, the church has got it seriously wrong in recent years.

[Thinker]

The purpose of the Church is to convert souls to Christ. It is your responsibility to feed the poor, not the responsibility of the Church.

Maybe in theory but not in practice. In practice, we have been spending an hour+ each Sunday worship time, studying mormon leaders. In our church I’ve never heard a “New Testament reading challenge” whereas we have many Book of MORMON reading challenges... Mormonism over Christ’s teachings.

Want to know what the REAL priorities are? Look at church finances - oh yeah, you can’t because they’re kept dark and secret. But Oaks admitted not a cent of tithes goes to the poor - which breaks the lower and higher laws (Deuteronomy 14:28-29 & Christ’s greatest commandments). Since 2012, the church has disclaimed on donation slips that even fast offerings are the church’s and may not go to the category designated. And we know that the church has shopping mallS as part of a big corporate empire. Also, the church dishonestly charges for worthiness and based on income rather than increase.

If this is the church of Mormon leaders, things are going as expected. But if this is the church of JESUS CHRIST, it is way off track, especially in regards to finances and distorted teachings.

Almost 1,000,000,000 of our brothers and sisters are starving. Many die every day of related causes. But this seems to be low on the list of church headquarters priorities.

Grand ribon-cutting opening by for another mall built using the name of Jesus Christ...






Even if you designated fast offerings - the church leaders now say it’s their money and they can use it as they want...

[Finrock]

It has never caught on and never will
I keep my religious beliefs to myself, they are essentially a very personal matter, why would I invite 2 strangers into my home who I've only known for a very short time and let them loose on friends I've known for 20 years plus? It's a no brainer!!, you'll get the odd one which will work but the basic premise will never work!
Why is the church so obsessed with trying to convert the whole world and everyone who has ever lived in it? there are other more important matters to consider and deal with!

The idea is to help people to be converted to Jesus Christ. I know this simple message and goal gets conflated and mangled, often, by members and even the Church, at times.

When I was converted/born again, my heart was changed by the love, mercy, grace, and power of Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit. This outpouring of love, of mercy, of grace, compels me to extend these same things towards others. Jesus loved me first, which allowed me to love myself, which allowed me to love others.

So, when you love other people, you have a desire for them to know and to experience the good that you know and that you have experienced. Again, I'm not talking about the same type of missionary work/service that you might find Jehovah's witnesses doing. I know I can't speak for the whole religion, but, my experience with JW's has been that they do missionary work because they feel pressure to do it or because of a sense of duty because that is what JW's do. There is social pressure and expectations, and so forth. Again, to be clear, I'm not talking about all JWs or the whole religion, I'm only talking about the experiences I've had, the conversations that I've had, and the insights that I've received as I've spoken to and interacted with multiple members of the JW religion.

In any case, there is nothing more important in the world than being converted/born again/baptized by fire and to truly know Jesus Christ.

-Finrock

[JohnnyL]

Feeding the starving and the poor of the world, elevating poverty for one!!

This argument always comes up like it is something easy to fix. It's not.

The poor will always be with us. Plus, money doesn't solve poverty. People are not poor because they don't have money, they are poor for a wide range of extremely difficult circumstances to solve. Simply giving people money doesn't solve the problem, even so, we help where possible and do a lot to support other churches who are part of the effort. For instance, there was a Christian church in Las Vegas that multiple stakes supported with volunteers who supplied the cooks, youth for passing out food, and the food itself. The other church provided the location and venue and invited people to come and eat and get basic supplies.

I went with our ward several times over the years when it was our turn. I talked to many people including a man who left his job and sold off everything to live on the street free from taxes and government intervention in his life. He is homeless by choice. Another man lives on the street and has a free bus ticket waiting to take him one state over to his sister's house. She is begging him to come live with her and get back on his feet; he refuses. Everyone has a story, these are not easy problems to solve. Others are victims of their governments and we could send food, but they steal it to keep the people weak and under their control.

We could take all of the churches money and buy maybe a fraction of the poor in the world a meal (only those we could actually reach if their governments allowed) and they would be hungry again tomorrow. The church isn't as powerful in that regard as we might think. The logistics of creating, preparing, and delivering such food globally would be expensive beyond imagination.

What I would like to see is a realistic plan to "Feeding the starving and the poor of the world, elevating poverty" and an estimate of how much that would cost and compare it with the discretionary funds of the church that exist after paying for everything it takes to run the organization including the taxes, electricity, water, etc for the thousands of chapels that the members attend and enjoy multiple times per week for free.

I would also like to see a case study where someone, instead of complaining, made a proof of concept in their own neighborhood where they raise money to feed the starving and elevate poverty and show a working model that is scalable.

I've shared this before, but in a neighborhood in Idaho there was one particular block that was run down and filled with low-income people. They were what you would probably call "white trash" and they all had issues and many were nice people but like I said: "issues".

The neighbors which consisted mostly of LDS people tried to do something. With their own money, they went in and replated grass, trees, flowers, gardens, painted homes, fixed up properties and did all kinds of service so that these people would be raised to the level of the rest of the homes in the area. The end result was a neighborhood that fit in, and the people were grateful. In 2 years it was right back to the trash heap it was before.

Cleansing the outer vessel did nothing. Again, the problems are much bigger. The good neighbors thought they could fix them with money and some elbow grease but they severely underestimated the CAUSE of why that neighborhood was so run down. Money was pumped into that neighborhood and we preached the gospel like crazy there but little made a difference.

Now imagine the problem on a global scale. Money is not as magical as we think it is.

Absolutely spot on.

Notice the invitations in this, Dusty52.

[JohnnyL]

BTW, I was a missionary in two places where members were missionaries, and in one place it was EVERY member a missionary. It happened. I was a witness.

I know people who joined the church through friends and family. If you ask around in your ward, you'll probably find a few, too.

I've helped many people know the gospel, and I'm not an outgoing guy.

If you pray, it will happen. Have you prayed? Get some courage! Even a very tiny bit, enough to just pray for it. If you have desire, God will work with you.

An old man in our ward has helped many people know the gospel, and he wasn't even a ward missionary. He opened his mouth (something about that in DC) and bore his testimony. Many times.

If you're saying it won't work, maybe it's because you won't work.

[oneClimbs]

Even if you designated fast offerings - the church leaders now say it’s their money and they can use it as they want...

I can understand your concern here but this is not perhaps as nefarious as you might think it is. I work in the tech industry and we build websites and such. One of them hosts a ton of user content, stuff that is very special and personal. We do not sell or data mine the content because we respect the privacy of the users, however, in our agreements we do say that anything uploaded to our site, we OWN.

Facebook, Instagram, tons of other sites that host user content do the same. There is an important reason for this. If the sites get hacked and you lose any data, you could be held liable for that for thousands or millions of people, but if you own it, it's your property. If the church didn't have that disclaimer they could have suits brought by thousands of people asking for an accounting of how every cent of theirs was spent.

You think we waste money on certain things, now imagine the insane legal fees from dealing with tons of different cases. It solves a lot of problems by just having a simple sentence that says that the funds will be used at their discretion. Fast offerings go to help the poor and the church's other ventures fund a massive humanitarian effort. Personally, I'm grateful for the chapels and the temples and I know that they exist due to my contributions. I'm grateful that the chapels are efficiently designed and that the temples are beautiful works of art.

Posting pictures of starving children and juxtaposing it with other things is caricaturing reality. How about we post a picture of starving kids next to you and your house or your car or cars, or your family vacation photos, or you on your tech device posting on this forum? Well, clearly you have money for all of those nice things, think of all the people that starved because you wanted a vacation or a new TV, phone, car, trampoline, boat, computer, etc. Do you really NEED all those things?

I'm not trying to attack you here, just illustrating a point. I actually agree with you that the whole mall thing feels really weird. I don't live in Utah, never have, but I've been up there. The church owns the property and for whatever reason, it was time for an upgrade. They were in a position to revitalize the asset and potentially bring more people to the downtown area and help the community. This creates jobs and can have positive impacts on people's lives when literally thousands combine to pull off such a project. The whole state was basically owned and run by the church at one point which is really different than how the church works in other states where they are primarily concerned with the chapels and temples.

Utah is a different animal, there is history there. The church could simply sell off the property but they'd lose control over it. I don't know all of the particulars, as I said, but I don't really care about the mall at all. I don't' really care that much about the church bureaucracy because it has almost 0 impacts on my life and I have 0 control over it. My ward family and my community are another things, maybe when I have created a Zion in my family and home town I'll start branching out into other areas. Until then, I'm not going to get too upset over things I know very little about.

For Come Follow Me today, I was listening in Matthew 7 where Jesus was talking about the mote and beam in the eyes of the people. I think we could use a good dose of that here.

[oneClimbs]

The purpose of the Church is to convert souls to Christ. It is your responsibility to feed the poor, not the responsibility of the Church.

Maybe in theory but not in practice. In practice, we have been spending an hour+ each Sunday worship time, studying mormon leaders. In our church I’ve never heard a “New Testament reading challenge” whereas we have many Book of MORMON reading challenges... Mormonism over Christ’s teachings.

The Book of Mormon is Christ's teachings specifically for this day and time. Mormonism is Christ's teachings. A lot of effort and literally thousands of years were involved in it coming forth for this small window of time so yes, we are going to need to prioritize it. We already spend 2 years in a row studying the Bible and only 1 in the Book of Mormon.

"Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon..." D&C 84:55-57

President Benson said this:

"My beloved brethren and sisters, for some years now I have been deeply concerned that we are not using the Book of Mormon as God intends. As I participated in the Mexico City Temple dedication, I received the distinct impression that God is not pleased with our neglect of the Book of Mormon. In the eighty-fourth section of the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord decreed that the whole Church was under condemnation, even all the children of Zion, because of the way they treated the Book of Mormon. "And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent," said the Lord, "and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon" (D&C 84:57). Zion cannot fully arise and put on her beautiful garments if she is under this condemnation." (See D&C 82:14). (President Benson, CR, Oct. 1984, pp. 4-5)

We are apparently still under this condemnation. So why not challenge the people to read the most correct book on earth that will bring someone nearer to God than any other book?

Don't get me wrong, I love the New Testament, and you should be glad that Come Follow Me (named after a quote from the New Testament) starts off in the New Testament. The first new video series the church created was the New Testament.

The New Testament is where I first started my deep dive into the gospel as an LDS youth. We teach and quote from it constantly so having a periodic BofM challenge does not equal the church abandoning the New Testament, that is so just way out there to even suggest such a thing. It's like saying, "The church provided a pie bar for Father's Day at church, well, so much for the Word of Wisdom, looks like we have abandoned all sense of preserving health and maintaining our bodies as temples. When has the church ever had a vegetable bar, or a fruit bar, or a grain bar?"

We're getting pretty far into the extreme territory here.

[righteousrepublic]

Why is the church so obsessed with trying to convert the whole world and everyone who has ever lived in it? there are other more important matters to consider and deal with!

I have a hard time understanding how any believing Christian could ask such a question?

I have given you the benefit of the doubt as being an honest and sincere seeker. But I have a hard time believing this question to be sincere, especially using an adjective like "obsessed" that has such negative connotations.

Didn't Jesus tell Peter several times to feed his sheep.

Also: D&C 18
41 And you must preach unto the world, saying: You must repent and be baptized, in the name of Jesus Christ;

42 For all men must repent and be baptized, and not only men, but women, and children who have arrived at the years of accountability.

43 And now, after that you have received this, you must keep my commandments in all things;

44 And by your hands I will work a marvelous work among the children of men, unto the convincing of many of their sins, that they may come unto repentance, and that they may come unto the kingdom of my Father.


This is why the church is "so obsessed with trying to convert the whole world and everyone who has ever lived in it." Because the Lord commanded it.

[Thinker]

Steve,
Money donations are not the same as website privacy, but nice try attempting to justify church leaders admitting their will over doners wills and keeping God’s TITHES dark and secret.

Church leaders demand TITHES from those who don’t have it to give, and withhold TITHES from the poor - breaking lower and higher commandments. And they charge for temple worthine$$. I don’t demand tithes from others nor do I hide it and keep it from those for who it’s meant, nor do I charge for worthiness. So you comparing me to church leaders is absurd. You also don’t know me or what I do.

And you’re again trying to justify evil - this time claiming the shopping mall built by funds gathered in the name of Jesus Christ, is “ok” since it’s in Utah and all the history. The church still ought to use the resources gathered in Christ’s name for CHRIST’s purposes - not worldly greed. And there are other similar church-owned shopping malls outside of Utah - in Hawaii and in Arizona. But there’s much more to their corporate empire - obsession with making money - using Jesus Christ’s name in vain.

Characteristics of a cult involve never questioning leaders - which as we know with Dictators - or anyone left without accounting - leads to corruption. Another characteristic of a cult is obsession with making money and financian secrecy.

The scripture about removing what’s in your own eye ought not to be used to justify evil - especially from leaders leading many people in ways contrary to God. Christ saw the need to correct religious leaders.

• 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
  24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
  25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
  26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
  27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
  28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.”-Matthew 23

Tithing belongs to GOD. And inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these, ye have done it unto God. Tithing is supposed to help those in need - at least 1/3 of it (Deuteronomy 14:28-29), but Christ asked those who can, to give much more. The greatest commandments are to love God (by loving others) and love others as ourselves, “on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

Steve,
I get the impression your god is the church - so no matter what they do or no matter what commandments they disobey, you’ll find a way to justify it. My god is God - that God Christ worshipped. I prioritize the highest GOoD over the church - even if that makes some hate me. Christ warned those who truly follow him will be hated.

It’s not all or nothing. The church and missionary work does a lot of good - but there is some evil in it - which hurts people financially, psychologically and spiritually. If this is indeed the Church of JESUS CHRIST, his words and ways ought to be followed, but they are not. So when I must choose, I follow Christ over the church.

[JohnnyL]

Steve,
Money donations are not the same as website privacy, but nice try attempting to justify church leaders admitting their will over doners wills and keeping God’s TITHES dark and secret.

Church leaders demand TITHES from those who don’t have it to give, and withhold TITHES from the poor - breaking lower and higher commandments. And they charge for temple worthine$$. I don’t demand tithes from others nor do I hide it and keep it from those for who it’s meant, nor do I charge for worthiness. So you comparing me to church leaders is absurd. You also don’t know me or what I do.

And you’re again trying to justify evil - this time claiming the shopping mall built by funds gathered in the name of Jesus Christ, is “ok” since it’s in Utah and all the history. The church still ought to use the resources gathered in Christ’s name for CHRIST’s purposes - not worldly greed. And there are other similar church-owned shopping malls outside of Utah - in Hawaii and in Arizona. But there’s much more to their corporate empire - obsession with making money - using Jesus Christ’s name in vain.

Characteristics of a cult involve never questioning leaders - which as we know with Dictators - or anyone left without accounting - leads to corruption. Another characteristic of a cult is obsession with making money and financian secrecy.

The scripture about removing what’s in your own eye ought not to be used to justify evil - especially from leaders leading many people in ways contrary to God. Christ saw the need to correct religious leaders.

• 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
  24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
  25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
  26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
  27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
  28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.”-Matthew 23

Tithing belongs to GOD. And inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these, ye have done it unto God. Tithing is supposed to help those in need - at least 1/3 of it (Deuteronomy 14:28-29), but Christ asked those who can, to give much more. The greatest commandments are to love God (by loving others) and love others as ourselves, “on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

Steve,
I get the impression your god is the church - so no matter what they do or no matter what commandments they disobey, you’ll find a way to justify it. My god is God - that God Christ worshipped. I prioritize the highest GOoD over the church - even if that makes some hate me. Christ warned those who truly follow him will be hated.

It’s not all or nothing. The church and missionary work does a lot of good - but there is some evil in it - which hurts people financially, psychologically and spiritually. If this is indeed the Church of JESUS CHRIST, his words and ways ought to be followed, but they are not. So when I must choose, I follow Christ over the church.

I'd keep in mind DC 1:38, and a whole bunch of other verses all over all the scriptures.
It's hollowness to claim to truly worship God, but reject his mouthpieces and messengers.

[righteousrepublic]

Seriously, what does it mean to follow Christ?

[Thinker]

Seriously, what does it mean to follow Christ?

Live as Christ did. Christ said the greatest commandments are to love God (& as we love others we love God) & love others as ourselves... “on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

So, Johnny, if someone says they are a prophet but act contrary to the greatest commandments, as if Christ knew they would - he commanded that the 2 greatest commandments ought to be followed instead of that prophet.

[righteousrepublic]

Seriously, what does it mean to follow Christ?

Live as Christ did. Christ said the greatest commandments are to love God (& as we love others we love God) & love others as ourselves... “on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

So, Johnny, if someone says they are a prophet but act contrary to the greatest commandments, as if Christ knew they would - he commanded that the 2 greatest commandments ought to be followed instead of that prophet.

Are there any other commandments or requirements we must obey? Or can we get by just by loving others and ourself?

[JohnnyL]

Seriously, what does it mean to follow Christ?

Live as Christ did. Christ said the greatest commandments are to love God (& as we love others we love God) & love others as ourselves... “on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

So, Johnny, if someone says they are a prophet but act contrary to the greatest commandments, as if Christ knew they would - he commanded that the 2 greatest commandments ought to be followed instead of that prophet.

Like Moses, killing others?
Like Gideon, killing others?
Like Elijah, killing others?
Like Jesus, killing the herders' pigs?
Like many BoM prophets, killing others?
I guess I could go on and on...

Like Jesus, who actually did most of the killing in the scriptures?
I'd guess you condemn Jesus himself using this limited logic.
Did Jesus love the people he killed? Did Jesus love the babies he killed? Does Jesus love the starving babies? Why doesn't HE "do anything about it"?

How does one love God and others as yourself? Which is the GREATEST commandment?
Who said this?: "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
I used DC 1:38, but could have used many more. I believe that you don't need a list of all the times God commands people through prophets. The principle is too basic and plentiful in the Bible itself.

There is a difference between truly loving yourself and being selfish, arrogant, proud, and all those similar things.
If you truly love yourself, you'll love God, keep his commandments, and--loving others as yourself--you'll seek those same blessings for others... missionary work!!

[Thinker]

Seriously, what does it mean to follow Christ?

Live as Christ did. Christ said the greatest commandments are to love God (& as we love others we love God) & love others as ourselves... “on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

So, Johnny, if someone says they are a prophet but act contrary to the greatest commandments, as if Christ knew they would - he commanded that the 2 greatest commandments ought to be followed instead of that prophet.

Are there any other commandments or requirements we must obey? Or can we get by just by loving others and ourself?

All other Christ-like commandments fit under the umbrella of the 2 greatest commandments “...which hang all the law and the prophets.”

Johnny,
Again, it’s not all-or-nothing. Many missionaries have helped many people live better lives. But they also are following orders to preach some evil mixed with the good - like financial corruption in how tithing has been distorted, and cult-like teachings as in prioritizing lds church leaders over Christ’s teachings.

I wish that
1) the missionary program followed Christ’s teachings by prioritizing EFFECTIVE humanitarian work...&
2) the church would embrace and prioritize Christ’s teachings which so many desperately need: guidance to navigate the “narrow way” which few find.

As it is, church leaders have shown they care more about members following them and the lds church, than following Christ. Elder Ballard in speaking to those who consider leaving the lds-church “ship” said, "Where will you go? What will you do?" As if the only Christ-like option is the lds church - like all other Christian churches are nothing. As if it’s the lds church or nothing - ignoring that it’s possible to (& many do) follow Christ & not go to the lds church. If they genuinely cared about members following CHRIST, they would urge that focus, above all. But the lds church “ship” is above all. False god anyone?