The Brigham Young Poll

[ElizaRSkousen]

“I am not going to interpret dreams; for I don’t profess to be such a Prophet as were Joseph Smith and Daniel; but I am a Yankee guesser"

Compete Discourses Vol 3 page 1306 26 Jul 1859

Brigham himself declared he was not a prophet in the same sense as was Joseph Smith.

I would agree with that analysis. Joseph was special.

[kirtland r.m.]

For those of you who endear Brigham Young, you may not want to conduct any research into his life and/or what he taught/did.

I have deeply studied everything I can get my hands on regarding his life, teachings, parenthood, spousehood, and prophetic calling.

I couldnt find a single thing to make me hate him

And I second that. He received an amazing series of revelations which was vital for the saints, and still is. You don't get that by being a pin head, to be very blunt. He was awesome.

[The Airbender]

For those of you who endear Brigham Young, you may not want to conduct any research into his life and/or what he taught/did.

I love him more for everything I've learned about him. All the facts and not the conjecture.

[JohnnyL]

Out of all the Teachings series, I learned the most from BY's.

Best thing I ever did for my marriage was basically straight from the book--"advice", not revelation, or even inspiration.

[Sirius]

I'll add my witness that I know Brigham was called of God. I appreciate his boldness, bluntness, wisdom and humility. Joseph, kept much knowledge on the Kingdom of Heaven very close to the vest. Brigham, was in a position to share it much more freely. I don't believe he shared anything Joseph wouldn't have, had the people been in a position to receive it. I am so grateful we are still able to study those things, because unfortunately we've regressed from being worthy of much that was taught then.

[Col. Flagg]

A little research into the life of Brigham Young would show that he had 55 wives, several of whom filed for divorce, citing abdication of his financial and emotional responsibility to them, he was very controlling, manipulative and even sometimes threatening when it came to getting his way, he used the church as his own personal bank account and owed over $1 million when he died, he was prejudice against black people which led to the ban on dark-skinned men receiving the priesthood, he altered and even created lot of scripture to make it appear as though polygamy was essential for salvation, had the hotel 'Lion House' aptly named for his womanizing and even started up his own brewery upon settling in the Salt Lake valley.

[Lexew1899]

Brigham Young spoke about the accusation that he was using church funds...

"You allow the devil to suggest to you that I am not leading you right, and allow that thought to abide in your hearts, and I will promise you that it will lead you to apostasy. You allow yourselves to doubt anything that God has revealed, and it will not be a great while before you begin to neglect your prayers, refuse to pay your Tithing, and find fault with the authorities of the Church. You will be repeating what apostates all say, “The Tithing is not used aright,” etc. There is a feeling that sometimes prompts me to ask, “Did you ever pay any Tithing to me that I kept? If so, let us be informed about it.” God has so blessed me with regard to things pertaining to this world, that if it can be shown that I ever received the benefit of any man's Tithing, I am able to restore it a hundred fold. This perhaps is a little levity in me, but I indulge in such things sometimes.

When brother Joseph was alive, he appointed me to appraise property in the Nauvoo Temple. On one occasion, a saddle was brought in; it was valued at two dollars, and being in need of a saddle I used it. Brother Joseph, too, once sent me the half of a pig which weighed ninety-three pounds. And while preaching in Boston, I received two and a half dollars in Tithing, which I also used and reported to brother Joseph. Otherwise not a dime of the Tithing did I ever use in the days of Joseph; and since his day the right to dictate the use of the Tithing belongs to me, and I have used what I thought was necessary, but I have no knowledge of using one dollar of Tithing money for my own purposes. Though after these statements I will say that I dictate the Tithing very little. Neither the Bishops nor my clerks ever ask me anything about it, they do what they please with it. I do not care what is done with it, if it be rightfully and properly used. They are perfectly welcome to use my Tithing in common with yours; the Lord will hold them responsible for its use." JoD 18:215

[simpleton]

What were some of his mistakes?

And if not that (because I'm not 100 percent sure), the way he treated at least some of his wives was...less than Christlike.

I have read essays and journal accounts and quotes from his spouses and children and they overwhelmingly portray him to have been a humble, gentle, playful, thoughtful, loving father and husband.

Yeah, my mother is hung up on things that were written in folks journals about Joseph Smith or what so and so said, etc. The irony is those who have a testimony of Joseph Smith almost universally accept the fact that since he was fourteen, folks were set out to destroy his reputation. He was told people would speak good and evil of him among all nations!

JSH 1:33 He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people.

Were there not folks who conspired against him - even those who were his among his closest friends and confidants? Would there not be written accounts of these conspiracies that corroborate each other?

And wouldn't Brigham Young have endured the same? The adversary succeeded against the three witnesses of the Book of Mormon in getting them each to apostatize though they had all seen and held the plates and beheld an angel (though the only one who never returned never betrayed his witness.)

Wouldn't the adversary have targeted those close to Brigham Young with the same fervor?

Strangely enough inspite of having a falling out with Joseph and the church, not one of them ( at least with what I have studied so far upon the subject) ever denied their testimony of the book of Mormon and of having seen that angel displaying the plates to them. IMO, that, at least to me, even strengthens their testimony written in the preface of the BofM to the world. Oliver was cornered by a lawyer in court and was kind of forced to state his position upon his written testimony and was not "ashamed of Christ" and testified accordingly. So I would kind of hesitate before brushing them off. Seems to me that their testimony stayed bright to the end.

[simpleton]

A little research into the life of Brigham Young would show that he had 55 wives, several of whom filed for divorce, citing abdication of his financial and emotional responsibility to them, he was very controlling, manipulative and even sometimes threatening when it came to getting his way, he used the church as his own personal bank account and owed over $1 million when he died, he was prejudice against black people which led to the ban on dark-skinned men receiving the priesthood, he altered and even created lot of scripture to make it appear as though polygamy was essential for salvation, had the hotel 'Lion House' aptly named for his womanizing and even started up his own brewery upon settling in the Salt Lake valley.

Well as the "true Shepard of Isreal" at the time would he not, should he not be controlling, try to "manipulate" his sheep to do what's right, and threaten them? God does exactly the same thing. Also how many of Gods own children "divorce" Him? Seems like the majority does, so does God, or rather does God cease to be God because His own children refuse to acknowledge Him as their Father? I think Brigham and Joseph were spot on in regards to "the priesthood ban" inspite of the "convenient" supposed claimed revelation of 1978. And polygamy, well every scripture we have has gone through a man that was a prophet so what is so wrong with Brigham writing scripture also? And I also think Celestial/Plural marriage is essential for "exaltation" into the celestial kingdom. It's one thing to be "saved", it's another thing to be "exalted". Read and study the J of D's, there is more light and knowledge contained within those books, even in just one sermon than years worth of the "political correctness" conferences of what is published in the church today. Brigham Young was exactly the perfect man picked by God to fill the position of a Moses to His people. Not one of us could of even close to do what he did. And I feel that those of us that mock or deride him will have hell to pay unless we speedily repent. Just my opinion anyways....

[simpleton]

I second that. Extremely misunderstood? Yes. Wicked, perverted, misled? No.

He is to Joseph Smith what Joshua was to Moses, or what Peter was to Jesus.

Of the original 12 only Brigham Young and Heber C Kimball were faithful to Joseph in every instance. I would believe their word over any other of their day. If we follow historical patterns, things usually go to pot after the original dispensation heads pass away.

If we reject the words of Brigham, we are rejecting truth. We can never understand him if we don't first believe him. He was only sharing what he learned from Brother Joseph anyway, and Joseph was killed for the little he shared.

I feel to exclaim "hallelujah" their are still some that defend the Lords anointed, Brigham Young. Spot on. Again I'll say some of us, one day, are going to be ashamed the way we have mocked and derided him.

[JohnnyL]

A little research into the life of Brigham Young would show that he had 55 wives, several of whom filed for divorce, citing abdication of his financial and emotional responsibility to them, he was very controlling, manipulative and even sometimes threatening when it came to getting his way, he used the church as his own personal bank account and owed over $1 million when he died, he was prejudice against black people which led to the ban on dark-skinned men receiving the priesthood, he altered and even created lot of scripture to make it appear as though polygamy was essential for salvation, had the hotel 'Lion House' aptly named for his womanizing and even started up his own brewery upon settling in the Salt Lake valley.

Oh wow, that destroyed my testimony!!

Lots of claims. I was thinking surely there had to be much more...

Let's start with the ban: JS, not BY.

[thestock]

and even started up his own brewery upon settling in the Salt Lake valley.

What!? Unnacceptable!!

[investigator]

"This other path a woman may take, if she can get a chance, and do it in accordance with the order of heaven, if a woman can find a man holding the keys of the priesthood with higher power and authority than her husband, and he is disposed to take her, he can do so, otherwise she has got to remain where she is. This is a second way in which a woman can leave her husband to whom she has been sealed for time and eternity. In either of these ways of separation you can discover there is no need for a bill of divorcement."

Brigham Young, General Conference 8 October 1861

No need for divorce, just find a man with more keys? Very convenient considering Brigham had the most "keys". Contrast this to the teaching in our Doctrine and Covenants at the time of Joseph Smith.

"One man should have one wife, and one woman one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again. It's not right to persuade a woman to be baptized contrary to the will of her husband, neither is it lawful to influence her to leave her husband."

[Fiannan]

At least Brigham did not think blacks and whites were of a different species.

[investigator]

At least Brigham did not think blacks and whites were of a different species.

The moment we consent to mingle with the seed of Cain the Church must go to destruction, - we should receive the curse which has been placed upon the seed of Cain, and never more be numbered with the children of Adam who are heirs to the priesthood until that curse be removed.

Brigham Young, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1973, p. 56

[investigator]

Cain slew his brother.... and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and tehn another curse is pronounced upon the same race – that they should be the 'servant of servants,' and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree. How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam's children are brought up to that favorable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed. When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive blessings in like proportion.

Brigham Young, Brigham Young Addresses, Feb. 5, 1852, LDS historical department

[Sirius]

he altered and even created lot of scripture to make it appear as though polygamy was essential for salvation,

I'm sorry but these are the ideas of a darkened mind. Many here have dismissed the Patriarchs living the law of Celestial Plural Marriage, sec 132, Jacob 2, Joseph receiving and teaching the law etc. And it leaves me wondering, would you also discount our Father's claim that He is the literal Father of Jesus Christ in the flesh, that He begat this Only Begotten Son? That Mary, is the mother of Jesus Christ in the flesh? If I am to take God at His word when He states, He has put a pattern in ALL things, so that we will not be deceived, then it would be foolish to assume He deviates from the established pattern when it comes to propagating one's species. Would our Father give us a law of chastity, wherein He commands, no sexual relations except between a man and a woman who have been legally and lawfully wed (sealed), if He too weren't expected to live within the bounds of that law? If so, it is plain to see that Mary, is another eternal wife of our Heavenly Father. Another powerful witness to the truthfulness of this Holy Order. I don't know who you are striving to become like, but anything Brigham taught on the subject was because he understood the character of Father, and his desire to become like Him.

[investigator]

How would the Church today vote on this pole?

Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form. https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the ... d?lang=eng

“The origins of priesthood availability are not entirely clear. Some explanations with respect to this matter were made in the absence of direct revelation and references to these explanations are sometimes cited in publications. These previous personal statements do not represent Church doctrine.” “The origins of priesthood availability are not entirely clear. Some explanations with respect to this matter were made in the absence of direct revelation and references to these explanations are sometimes cited in publications. These previous personal statements do not represent Church doctrine.” https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/race-church

Looks like the church unequivocally condemns the teachings of Brigham Young stating he preached church doctrine in the absence of revelation.

[investigator]

he altered and even created lot of scripture to make it appear as though polygamy was essential for salvation,

I'm sorry but these are the ideas of a darkened mind. Many here have dismissed the Patriarchs living the law of Celestial Plural Marriage, sec 132, Jacob 2, Joseph receiving and teaching the law etc. And it leaves me wondering, would you also discount our Father's claim that He is the literal Father of Jesus Christ in the flesh, that He begat this Only Begotten Son? That Mary, is the mother of Jesus Christ in the flesh? If I am to take God at His word when He states, He has put a pattern in ALL things, so that we will not be deceived, then it would be foolish to assume He deviates from the established pattern when it comes to propagating one's species. Would our Father give us a law of chastity, wherein He commands, no sexual relations except between a man and a woman who have been legally and lawfully wed (sealed), if He too weren't expected to live within the bounds of that law? If so, it is plain to see that Mary, is another eternal wife of our Heavenly Father. Another powerful witness to the truthfulness of this Holy Order. I don't know who you are striving to become like, but anything Brigham taught on the subject was because he understood the character of Father, and his desire to become like Him.

1. Brigham Young did teach that plural marriage was essential for salvation which is certainly not taught in the church today.

2. If Mary is the Eternal Wife of our Heavenly Father why must He have other wives? Could not have Mary condescended from her eternal throne in the same way as Jesus did and still be Heavenly Father's only wife? Whose to say that Mary had sexual relations with Joseph. There is plenty of evidence to show that she did not have children with Joseph and is thus technically still the virgin Mary.

[Sirius]

How would the Church today vote on this pole?

Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form. https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the ... d?lang=eng

“The origins of priesthood availability are not entirely clear. Some explanations with respect to this matter were made in the absence of direct revelation and references to these explanations are sometimes cited in publications. These previous personal statements do not represent Church doctrine.” “The origins of priesthood availability are not entirely clear. Some explanations with respect to this matter were made in the absence of direct revelation and references to these explanations are sometimes cited in publications. These previous personal statements do not represent Church doctrine.” https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/race-church

Looks like the church unequivocally condemns the teachings of Brigham Young stating he preached church doctrine in the absence of revelation.

Looks like the "keystone" of our religion aligns with brother Brigham
Alma 3

6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.

7 And their brethren sought to destroy them, therefore they were cursed; and the Lord God set a mark upon them, yea, upon Laman and Lemuel, and also the sons of Ishmael, and Ishmaelitish women.

8 And this was done that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren, that thereby the Lord God might preserve his people, that they might not mix and believe in incorrect traditions which would prove their destruction.

9 And it came to pass that whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed.

10 Therefore, whosoever suffered himself to be led away by the Lamanites was called under that head, and there was a mark set upon him.

2Nephi 5

21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.

[Sirius]

1. Brigham Young did teach that plural marriage was essential for salvation which is certainly not taught in the church today.

2. If Mary is the Eternal Wife of our Heavenly Father why must He have other wives? Could not have Mary condescended from her eternal throne in the same way as Jesus did and still be Heavenly Father's only wife? Whose to say that Mary had sexual relations with Joseph. There is plenty of evidence to show that she did not have children with Joseph and is thus technically still the virgin Mary.

I'm sure Heavenly Mother would have something to say about why Mary can't be His only wife.
I have no idea what Mary, having children with Joseph has to do with her being the Mother of Jesus Christ, and our Heavenly Father, in the flesh.

[Fiannan]

Looks like the church unequivocally condemns the teachings of Brigham Young stating he preached church doctrine in the absence of revelation.

Didn't Joseph Smith say blacks and whites were of different species?

[investigator]

1. Brigham Young did teach that plural marriage was essential for salvation which is certainly not taught in the church today.

2. If Mary is the Eternal Wife of our Heavenly Father why must He have other wives? Could not have Mary condescended from her eternal throne in the same way as Jesus did and still be Heavenly Father's only wife? Whose to say that Mary had sexual relations with Joseph. There is plenty of evidence to show that she did not have children with Joseph and is thus technically still the virgin Mary.

I'm sure Heavenly Mother would have something to say about why Mary can't be His only wife.
That's because your unbelief does not allow you to believe Mary is our Heavenly Mother.
I have no idea what Mary, having children with Joseph has to do with her being the Mother of Jesus Christ, and our Heavenly Father, in the flesh.
If you believe HF cannot have a child with Mary unless she is His wife, why would you believe Mary could have children with Joseph and be HF's wife?

[investigator]

How would the Church today vote on this pole?

Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life; that mixed-race marriages are a sin; or that blacks or people of any other race or ethnicity are inferior in any way to anyone else. Church leaders today unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form. https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the ... d?lang=eng

“The origins of priesthood availability are not entirely clear. Some explanations with respect to this matter were made in the absence of direct revelation and references to these explanations are sometimes cited in publications. These previous personal statements do not represent Church doctrine.” “The origins of priesthood availability are not entirely clear. Some explanations with respect to this matter were made in the absence of direct revelation and references to these explanations are sometimes cited in publications. These previous personal statements do not represent Church doctrine.” https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/race-church

Looks like the church unequivocally condemns the teachings of Brigham Young stating he preached church doctrine in the absence of revelation.

Looks like the "keystone" of our religion aligns with brother Brigham
Alma 3

6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.

7 And their brethren sought to destroy them, therefore they were cursed; and the Lord God set a mark upon them, yea, upon Laman and Lemuel, and also the sons of Ishmael, and Ishmaelitish women.

8 And this was done that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren, that thereby the Lord God might preserve his people, that they might not mix and believe in incorrect traditions which would prove their destruction.

9 And it came to pass that whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed.

10 Therefore, whosoever suffered himself to be led away by the Lamanites was called under that head, and there was a mark set upon him.

2Nephi 5

21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.

What does that say about the church today which has unequivocally condemned those teachings? You don't get to have it both ways.

[Craig Johnson]

Four things I will say about the Prophet Brigham Young and one question, 1) He is more like the Savior than any person who has ever posted on this website, whether you like him or not. 2) He helped in the conversion of more people to the restored gospel than has anyone who ever posted on this website, whether you like him or not. 3) He did more in leading the church than any poster who has ever posted on this website, whether you like him or not. 4) He has not criticized any of those who have criticized him on this website, whether you like him or not. 5) He has a university named after him, do you?